Honestly, I don't think that's true...
But I think that's a lot of people's perception.
You say one thing negative or positive about any of these guys and you get labled as a lover or a hater.
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Teddy Bridgewater
- Thread starter revan
- Start date
Honestly, I don't think that's true...
But I think that's a lot of people's perception.
You say one thing negative or positive about any of these guys and you get labled as a lover or a hater.
The Jags link was driving me nuts. It's great if you only wanted to see his footwork and delivery angle. They really needed to pan back some.
Or you're on the fence as to whether he's worth 1:1 (pretty much how I feel about the entire crop). Put another way, there's 5 or 6 guys I'd be thrilled to get at 1:15.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I think it is true. I think a lot of people love Bridgewater but don't even know exactly why. His true value is in a talent that is intangible (his brain).
And I think a lot of people really don't like Bridgewater but don't know why.
I'm with you. I think he is the best shot in this draft at a franchise QB, but he's not a guarantee and there are some other pretty nice options available to us.
TexansFTW
Veteran
What do you gotta say about his pro day bro? To be honest, I believe there are less than 3 people in this message board that can watch stuff like this and give an accurate assessment. I believe you're one of them.
FWIW - I am not one either, and don't think I'm calling anyone here out, I just think most people are full of S and go off of stupid reporters that are also full of S.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
^^^^ Yes. This.
I've got a lot of doubts about Bridgewater. I'm definitely not sold on him at 1-1 although if we're going to go QB at 1-1 in this draft, I think he's the guy.
I don't love him. I don't hate him. I'd prefer to draft several other people at 1-1 before him.
But even so, that doesn't make that throw a "throwing it up for grabs" throw.
This whole black and white thing about players and opinions is really intellectually lazy. "You don't agree with me, therefore... you're BIASED AND YOU'RE A _____ (fill in the blank with lover or hater.)" I hate that.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I thought he looked meh. But I also literally do not care. Tom Brady also looked meh when he worked out in shorts. Then you have guys like Gabbert who look amazing when throwing against air but just can't play the position mentally. Here's a fun read:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/03/17/blaine-gabbert-pro-day/
There is nothing exceptional about Bridgewater physically. And I think you can easily see that when he works out in shorts. What you can't see in this environment are the mental things, which is where he stands out and which are also the most important things a QB has to have at the next level.
In a pro day or combine setting all I'm looking for is to make sure that the guy really does have the physical skills that he appears to on tape. Bridgewater showed that. Everything else is on film. If you already know that Bridgewater is not an exceptional physical specimen then why would you knock him for not looking like one at his pro day?
Football is played in pads and too many guys base their evaluations on things that happen when the pads are off. Those guys also end up getting fired.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
I'm serious when I say I think there's a problem around weight and/or food for him.
He played last year ~190 lbs. and looked fine to me.
deucetx
Rookie
Completely agree. I don't see any of these QB's in such a black and white manner. Each have issues. And at this point I still don't see any of them at 1-1 but if we reach for a QB I understand that as well. I feel more confident about a couple of others more than the QB's at that spot though.
Reports from this proday sure didn't change that feeling.
I'm sure I come across as someone who doesn't like Bridgewater. I don't hate him.
I think I've been pretty straight forward saying I don't watch college football & rely on what the draftniks here & to a lesser extent those around the country say.
I do my little bit of youtube scouting, going so far as to watching a few complete games... still I admit nowhere near the work others have done.
If y'all say he's the best QB in this draft, I don't argue. Y'all have been watching him for 3 years.
At the same time, I know a little, or at least I believe I do. There are certain things that go into a QB grade, size being one of them. Level of competition another. I'm not enamored with his footwork, or anything about his technique... & everything I see has him graded as a mid 1st rounder at best. If there were a lack of talent in this class, I can see a top 10 pick, but so far, this draft has as much elite talent in it as most..... so that's not the case.
Another thing that gets me, is I don't understand how he can be graded so highly by most here, but then the other QBs are so far behind... doesn't make sense. The NFL combine grades looked a lot closer where Bortles got a 6.4 & McCarron got a 5.6 with several QBs in between. Not exactly the way I grade them, but the spread isn't as wide as the talk here would have you believe.
To me, the only one that has that extra something-something that would propel a mid 1st QB into the top 5 is Johnny Manziel, but I believe guys like him that go that high rarely works out... even though I wouldn't mind having a Michael Vick or Cam Newton type player right about now.
Intangibles count... I'm not saying otherwise, but surely you agree that someone like me can't grade intangibles after looking at them for what... 2 months now?
So if the Texans draft TeddyB, I hope y'all are right & I hope we're all right about Bill O'Brien... if we're not, then it don't matter who our QB is.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I actually didn't have you in mind...for once.
I don't agree with a lot of your stances but I do respect your ability to give reasons for why you think what you think. Your stance on Bridgewater has never been hazy.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
You're looking at those NFL Grades and you're thinking... oh... 5.6 is pretty close to a 6.4. But. It isn't.
A 7.0+ grade is a top-5 pick. Not many of those get handed out. In the 6.9-6.4 range, you've got guys going in the top 10. A 5.9-6.4 grade is a solid first round pick.
From 5.6-5.5 is a mid-third round to a second round pick. And then it's a log jam. 5.3 and 5.4 guys are probably 4th-5th round. 5.3-5.1 are 6-7th round guys.
Roughly speaking.
So that NFL 5.6 grade is closer to a 5.3 than to a 6.4 grade in a lot of ways.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
This is pretty much me and I've said so many times. The texans will personally work him out mentally and again physically private. I don't even watch pro days for the most part. I remember jake locker throwing all short route for a guy with a cannon because he had accuracy problems. I remember everyone in awe with jamarcus russell throwing darts 50 yds down the field. The qb has to be the smartset player on field and have to be able to ingest and know everyones assignment. That's been my thing with bridgewater,his football intelligence. We will see what the front office thinks one way or another
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
I'm not terribly excited about Teddy Bridgewater. If the Texans end up drafting him I just feel like he'll become a big-time project. I feel the same way abour Johnny Manziel. I actually like Blake Bortles the most out of the three.
I don't even know if Teddy Bridgewater is going to be as good in the pros as a healthy Cam Newton or Robert Griffin III. I'd rather gamble on a quarterback in the second or third round, where guys like Colin Kaepernick and Russell Wilson were drafted.
Jimmy Garoppolo would be my dream choice at pick #33 if he's on the board.
I don't even know if Teddy Bridgewater is going to be as good in the pros as a healthy Cam Newton or Robert Griffin III. I'd rather gamble on a quarterback in the second or third round, where guys like Colin Kaepernick and Russell Wilson were drafted.
Jimmy Garoppolo would be my dream choice at pick #33 if he's on the board.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
It's not really "throwing it up for grabs" when you put the ball in a position that only your WR can get it. Here, this is throwing it up for grabs:
Can you spot the difference?
If you don't think this pass isn't "throwing it up for grabs", I can't help you.
You guys made the mistake of bringing Manziel into this. Had you not, disaacks3 is likely to not call everyone TB lovers. You point out that Manziel is tossing it up for grabs, when he clearly is, and compare it to Bridgewater and disaacks3 has to defend his boy. Haters gonna hate, as he would say. What was it that icak called it? The Manziel Defense League?
Anyone who can't see the difference between these two throws is seriously biased. He is right in saying that every QB throws it up for grabs at some point. Some do more than others.
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Hmm. "My boy"? Try again. Manziel is a likely boom-or-bust player in the NFL. Bortles is an unpolished project. Bridgewater is the most Pro-ready, but it's hard to tell where his ceiling lies.
It's not about bringing in Manziel as you say, it's about calling one off-schedule successful play a great throw and another one blind luck. Neither pass shown had the HC jumping for joy when it was let go. All three top QB candidates have had some "unconventional, yet successful" plays. Those plays will be much tougher sells in the NFL.
Anyone who can't tell that both plays had healthy doses of luck involved is seriously biased. I've seen the Cincinatti play to Copeland picked apart by dozens of sites, the word "prayer" comes up about 40% of the time.
A 5.9-5.6 is a second round pick..... solid back-up, possible starter
So for the group of QBs we're looking at, those grades say mid 1st to mid 2nd.... at least that's how I look at it. & they're close, as there isn't much separating them.
Bridgewater: uncanny pocket awareness & accuracy
Bortles: elite size
Manziel: Play makah
McCarron:
Pros:Elite size, good accuracy, good decision making, high to middle football IQ, decent mobility, major conference, major program, played under bright lights & delivered more times than not.
Cons: Played with too much talent on his team on both sides of the ball (Manziel was only surrounded by elite talent on the offensive side of the ball, Bridgewater had no talent on offense, but played with the #1 defense in NCAAF)
Again, my grades don't shake out like theirs, but the grouping is closer to what I've got.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I personally have a problem with the "recent cold" explanation. The problem as I see it comes more likely from another angle.
He actually played last year at ~188. At the NFL Combine he weighed in at 208 pounds........20 pounds heavier. Then at the Pro Day, he's 202.........down 6 pounds from the Combine, but still 12 pounds heavier than last year's playing weight.
So this would be my concern. You know that because of all that was made of his light weight, pre Combine, he would have placed major concentrated effort to increase it.........much more on muscle weight training....and more lax on the aerobics.........and therefore on the conditioning/performance. It may have been a major reason for him not wanting to do anything at the Combine except weigh in. Now for the Pro Day, the weight training would have to have been at least balanced out in order that it would not adversely affect performance..........performance for only ONE single outing. In adding back in more aerobics training, this could easily have accounted for his weight loss.
Now, during a NFL full season not only must your aerobics training activity be maintained, BUT it will naturally be INCREASED during playing time, not only during practices but especially regular game time.
And this is where I have a major question mark. With this anticipated shift in weight training:aerobics ratio, will Bridgewater be able to maintain the weight required playing in the NFL......and with it his mobility and strength.......and decent durability.
When we think of weight "problems" in new young NFL players, we typically think of players having problems keeping their weight down. However, just as concerning, if not more, is a player who cannot increase and/or maintain his weight at a level required to fulfill his role in the NFL.
As always, time will give us the answers. If holding the weight is a problem, for some fans, the answer cannot come too soon..........while for one team it may come too late.
When they reviewed the tape, I'm sure Sumlin was like, "Johnny... don't do that sht again!! I mean it this time!"
Where Strong was, "Excellent, just like we worked on in practice. If you're gonna chunk it, put it between our guy & the back of the endzone."
The difference is that Bridgewater's luck was that his receiver located the ball & adjusted to it. Manziel's luck was that the other guy didn't get it first, heck, if they'd have knocked it down it would have been a net zero play for A&M.
But if it's 3rd & 1, it's like a punt. At least he didn't take a sack. On second down, or first, I'd rather he threw it away. If we're down & time's running out, what are you gonna do? His line, including Matthews, didn't do him no favors there.
I prefer to call it "magic". Don't tell me you don't believe in magic.
I hope I'm missing the sarcasm meter on this. He wasn't even facing forward until the release of the ball, that it landed where it did shows his obvious talent / feel, but is also a near miracle.
If you think they practiced running sidways and slinging it sidearm to the corner of the endzone, you've been smoking something not legal in TX.
That's it!!! TB's new nickname! Black Magic!
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I personally have a problem with the "recent cold" explanation. The problem as I see it comes more likely from another angle.
He actually played last year at ~188. At the NFL Combine he weighed in at 214 pounds........26 pounds heavier. Then at the Pro Day, he's 208.........down 6 pounds from the Combine, but still 20 pounds heavier than last year's playing weight.
So this would be my concern. You know that because of all that was made of his light weight, pre Combine, he would have placed major concentrated effort to increase it.........much more on muscle weight training....and more lax on the aerobics.........and therefore on the conditioning/performance. It may have been a major reason for him not wanting to do anything at the Combine. Now for the Pro Day, the weight training would have to have been at least balanced out in order that it would not adversely affect performance..........performance for only ONE single outing. In adding back in more aerobics training, this could easily have accounted for his weight loss.
Now, during a NFL full season not only must your aerobics training activity be maintained, BUT it will naturally be INCREASED during playing time, not only during practices but especially regular game time.
And this is where I have a major question mark. With this anticipated shift in weight training:aerobics ratio, will Bridgewater be able to maintain the weight required playing in the NFL......and with it his mobility and strength.......and decent durability.
When we think of weight "problems" in new young NFL players, we typically think of players having problems keeping their weight down. However, just as concerning, if not more, is a player who cannot increase and/or maintain his weight at a level required to fulfill his role in the NFL.
As always, time will give us the answers. If holding the weight is a problem, for some fans, the answer cannot come too soon..........while for one team it may come too late.
EDIT: Playoffs pointed out to me that I listed weights incorrectly......I have corrected them accordingly. Thanks, Playoffs! The theory and conclusions remain the same.
Don't you think Bridgewater, at 21, will gain weight over time? Plus, he will be on a NFL nutrition program, year round. Wilson and Brees play around 205-210 lbs. If this is the biggest question mark concerning Bridgewater, I can't see it as stopping the Texans (or any other team) from drafting him.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Every play involves some degree of luck. One of those plays is luckier than the other, which is the basis of this entire conversation.
Oh no! I think you've just evoked dexman into the thread. Bad disaacks, bad disaacks!That's it!!! TB's new nickname! Black Magic!
I think the thing is: the smallest things make all the difference in the world. Being able to read the defense 0.5 seconds faster than another guy could be the difference between a bust and a top 10 QB. Being able to stay calm with pressure up your face and still do the right thing is something else like that.
If you look at Bridgewater, you got football intelligence and instincts that are rare in college football. Other QBs like McCarron may also be smart, but they don`t have this high football IQ. Another thing about Bridgewater is his drive. He is a film and playbook nut who is guaranteed to always be the hardest worker. And a third thing would be his pocket presence. He can feel the rush, do little but very effective moves in the pocket and still do the right throw with a 300 pounds guy about to hit him.
People who love Bridgewater believe, that these 3 things are just about the most important things for a QB - and if you look at recent busts, it usually has something to do with either football IQ, his drive or his inability to deal with pressure.
People who don`t like Bridgewater don`t like his size and frame - and maybe some mechanical problems. And they are scared, that his lackluster competition didn`t expose his weaknesses. To me, a guy with his stats (and the extremely low number of INTs and fumbles, great completion percentage and a guy that has had his best games against the best competition is worth a long hard look...
drs23
Veteran
Well presented and thought out. I DO agree but I'm still a bit concerned about TB's stature. Maybe he can put on the weight. I hope he can and maintain it.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
HT.com edited highlights: http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-med...-Pro-Day/86dea913-8258-4db7-b4bb-dac4831593f1
Are you saying McCarron doesn't have these traits? Saban would beg to differ with you. He called McCarron the best QB in college football.
Facts are McCarron and TB have many of the same strengths and weaknesses. The differences are the level of competition and the amount of talent that surrounded them. Considering how close they are in talent IMHO (Both on the field/off the field) give me McCarron at 3-1 over TB at 1-1. Not saying that I want either as the Texans QB of the future.
Just saw it on the news... they're working on it.
What are they feeding him at Louisville? Tofu & beans?
Russell Wilson is 3 inches shorter... Brees is 2 inches shorter.
Look at it this way..... 110, 115 don't look bad on a 5'7" 5'8" female. Now if she was 4'10"... different story.
The hypocrisy here is hilarious. Two identical plays other than where the ball is placed. Of course it could be said that Manziel made a good play considering he lofted the ball in the direction of his elite, 6'5" WR with a 37" vertical. Takes a hell of a QB to be able to elude defenders like that and still be able to recognize where his big play WR is AND be able to get the ball to him.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I don't even know where to start with that comment. Identical plays? No, not at all. One is a toss up in the middle of the field following an unnecessary scramble. Manziel has an OL get pushed back, but the OL holds the block. He then spins around unnecessarily into pressure. Teddy had a free defender in his face. Manziel tosses it up in the middle of the field. Teddy lofts it toward the corner of the endzone. Multiple defenders have a shot at intercepting Manziel's pass. No defender has a shot at intercepting Bridgewater's pass. I guess ball placement is now not important or something?
Anyway, it's one play and an unfair comparison. Manziel has made similar plays to that one by Bridgewater. This is not one of them though and the attempt to call them identical is befuddling. It's interesting how some people see one thing and others see another.
Like I said, Bridgewater fans seem to believe he has an uncanny ability in these three areas... & none of the QBs at the college level come close. He is the only QB who made adjustments, calls, & audibles at the LOS. He is the only one who stood tall in the pocket, or navigated the pocket with finesse. & nobody else even looks at game film, or study the play book, or know where all his receivers are going to be.
They've all got "great stats" But Murray, Mettenberger, & McCarron played in their pro system, studied their playbooks, watched defensive film against SEC competition. Yards, TDs, INTs... those numbers are more a symptom of their situation. Look at percentages & ratios & these guys (I'm not sure about Mettenberger) performed at a very comparable level to Bridgewater, against better competition.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I was told that he was throwing balls with a "downward" motion. When someone overbulks their upper arm, this can limit flexion of the elbow (hand can't touch shoulder), resulting in short-cocking the throw...........the ball's trajectory goes straight down. Try tightly wrapping a 2 inch thick bandage around your upper arm, and then try flexing and throwing a football.
Kinda cool. He looked good... not too thin. If you told me he weighed 214, I wouldn't have known the difference.
I'd have liked to have seen the unedited version. I want to see him throw the out routes, the deep outs, the 9, the fade..... from the pocket. Not a lot of those routes on youtube, or any other "film".... If y'all have seen them, let me know.
In that highlight, there was a couple of out routes that he threw well, with plenty of zip... on a rope.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Makes sense. I think he is suffering from a little anxiety about his weight. Whether that's due to an inability to maintain additional weight or due to the reported concerns on him, it's not a good look. I'd prefer him say that he has been in the midst of trying to add maintainable weight and his weight has been fluctuating during that process, rather than him make up something about an illness.
Agreed
But to be fair to JM, he had faith that if he threw a jump ball Evans was the best athlete on the field. Not really a bad choice. Especially seeing how bad the A&M defense was, JM felt as though he had to take chances.
No. A lot of other QBs come close. What I was trying to say is, that even small differences can mean the world here. Gabbert had all the ability in the world - except his reads were a little too slow and he couldn`t live with pressure. His accuracy, football IQ, physical attributes all were great.
Like I said, 0.5 seconds in your reads are huge in the NFL - just as the ability to feel pressure and have eyes in the back of your head. Or the ability to stay cool when pressure comes.
I am not saying I know it all - I actually know very little. All I am saying is Bridgewater excels in areas I consider to be most important. And he seems to be a little better in those than all of his competition. And I don`t believe that either his size or his mechanics are deal breakers.
McCarron, Mettenberger or somebody else could turn out to be the better pro. Heck even someone we are not talking about could. I would just like to maximize the chances. Bortles has the size and clutch factor, Manziel has the wow factor and Bridgewater has the mental factor. But I would be fine with us going a different route (preferably trading down and grabbing a RT) and taking a QB like Garrapolo or McCarron later.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Ball placement is hugely important at the next level.
But they didn't intercept it!
seriously This is fun. I wonder who all here that has defended Bridgewaters poor perfomance at his pro day would of had the same take had Manziel had this type of showing first. Bet most wouldn't. Your last paragraph spot on. Like I said just having fun watching the pokes circle the wagon. It's my guy is better than your guy time. Nothing can be said that hasn't already been said. So I'm sitting back and enjoying the sideshow. Occasionally it gets stale so I stir the pot.
And Manziel placed it perfectly for Evans.