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TDN100

rmartin65 said:
This is where I'm at right now. Maybe I'm biased as an OSU grad, but I'm having a hard time seeing any real red flags on the field.

Of course, there is plenty of football left.
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Will he be the first success story from OSU QB's?
 
rmartin65 said:
At this point in time, obviously I think he'll succeed in the NFL, or else I wouldn't have said what I said.
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I know you think he willl. Forgive me for my amateurish dig at you and OSU. But, what makes him different from all the others?
 
JB said:
I know you think he willl. Forgive me for my amateurish dig at you and OSU. But, what makes him different from all the others?
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No worries.

I can't really speak for the guys who played before my time, but I think Stroud has a better set of tools than previous/recent OSU QBs. Let's go through them a bit-

Fields is the latest, the 11th pick in 2021. So really we are looking at the 4th QB selected in the draft in just his second year in the league. He hasn't been great, but I don't think we can really qualify him as a bust just yet. In any case- I think the big thing that separates Stroud and Fields is anticipation. Stroud does a great job in not only anticipating when players are open (which, to be fair, isn't particularly challenging in that offense/with the talent at WR), but when pressure is coming. He never really looks uncomfortable or surprised at what the defense is doing, and I think that goes a long way.

Before Fields was Dwayne Haskins (RIP), the 15th pick in 2019. I'll stand by his arm talent- that was absolutely NFL quality. Again, though, I think what makes Stroud the superior prospect is his understanding of the game and opposing defenses. Haskins probably had the talent to be an NFLer, but went to the NFL (and then played too early) earlier than he should have. If he had either taken another year in school (he only had one season as a starter) or taken a real redshirt year in the NFL, things may have been different. It also likely didn't help that his first NFL off-season was in the COVID times.

Then we have Cardale Jones, who, by the time the draft rolled around, no one was looking at him as a potential high-end QB. Same with Pryor, Smith, and Krenzel- none of those guys were thought of as top-end NFL QBs (or, for some, even NFL QBs) by the time they left Columbus. Stroud, for the time being, is seen as that kind of guy- the arm talent, the processing ability, the maturity, all strike me as either high-end or potentially high-end (arm wise, I think his arm strength is only average or maybe a bit above average- it won't limit the playbook, but it isn't a cannon).

To me, all this doesn't indicate a problem with OSU QBs and the draft (which isn't the question, but I'm here, so what the hell)- we are not seeing a pattern of these guys getting overrated and overdrafted.

And of the 3 1st round guys (Stroud, Fields, Haskins), I think Stroud is the best due to his mental game. He might actually have the worst arm of the 3, but due to his feel for defenses and ability to go through progressions effectively, it doesn't hamper his game.

We'll see, though. I'm no scout, just a guy that likes football. I could very well be wrong.

Late edit- I noticed a typo where I referred to Stroud as Fields.
 
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rmartin65 said:
No worries.

I can't really speak for the guys who played before my time, but I think Fields has a better set of tools than previous/recent OSU QBs. Let's go through them a bit-

Fields is the latest, the 11th pick in 2021. So really we are looking at the 4th QB selected in the draft in just his second year in the league. He hasn't been great, but I don't think we can really qualify him as a bust just yet. In any case- I think the big thing that separates Stroud and Fields is anticipation. Stroud does a great job in not only anticipating when players are open (which, to be fair, isn't particularly challenging in that offense/with the talent at WR), but when pressure is coming. He never really looks uncomfortable or surprised at what the defense is doing, and I think that goes a long way.

Before Fields was Dwayne Haskins (RIP), the 15th pick in 2019. I'll stand by his arm talent- that was absolutely NFL quality. Again, though, I think what makes Stroud the superior prospect is his understanding of the game and opposing defenses. Haskins probably had the talent to be an NFLer, but went to the NFL (and then played too early) earlier than he should have. If he had either taken another year in school (he only had one season as a starter) or taken a real redshirt year in the NFL, things may have been different. It also likely didn't help that his first NFL off-season was in the COVID times.

Then we have Cardale Jones, who, by the time the draft rolled around, no one was looking at him as a potential high-end QB. Same with Pryor, Smith, and Krenzel- none of those guys were thought of as top-end NFL QBs (or, for some, even NFL QBs) by the time they left Columbus. Stroud, for the time being, is seen as that kind of guy- the arm talent, the processing ability, the maturity, all strike me as either high-end or potentially high-end (arm wise, I think his arm strength is only average or maybe a bit above average- it won't limit the playbook, but it isn't a cannon).

To me, all this doesn't indicate a problem with OSU QBs and the draft (which isn't the question, but I'm here, so what the hell)- we are not seeing a pattern of these guys getting overrated and overdrafted.

And of the 3 1st round guys (Stroud, Fields, Haskins), I think Stroud is the best due to his mental game. He might actually have the worst arm of the 3, but due to his feel for defenses and ability to go through progressions effectively, it doesn't hamper his game.

We'll see, though. I'm no scout, just a guy that likes football. I could very well be wrong.
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Thank you for the informative reply. I'll have to make a point of watching more full games of Stroud in action.
 
I watch and record college games every Saturday. I didn't even start watching Ohio State until halftime. Nothing I enjoy more than a smooth, well-oiled offense, moving up and down the field. I enjoyed watching CJ Stroud move that team up and down the field at will .... and the way he looked doing it was phenomenal ! It looked like a walk in the park. Of course, it helps immeasurably to have a talented offensive line and a good running back, (we need those things .... for a long, long time now) .... but his super quick release and the way the ball jumped out of his hand were simply amazing. He is a treat to watch .... I can't wait to see him again ! Reminds me of what my beloved college voice teacher told me one time. He went to NYC to get his nis Masters and Doctorate degrees .... a lot more opportunity to interface with the world of Opera than in Texas. His voice teacher was a mature Dutch bass, with a big head of white hair, a huge flaming red beard, who would rattle the windows when laughing, or singing . He said "I saw Caruso - twice" ! Doc was flabbergasted .... "what was he like" ? Doc asked. The big Dutch Bass, looked off somewhere, seriously pondering the thought. He slowly turned back and quietly said "Once I heard that sound, I hungered for it until I could hear it again ! That's kinda the way I felt watching Stroud in that game !
 
justmy2cents said:
I watch and record college games every Saturday. I didn't even start watching Ohio State until halftime. Nothing I enjoy more than a smooth, well-oiled offense, moving up and down the field. I enjoyed watching CJ Stroud move that team up and down the field at will .... and the way he looked doing it was phenomenal ! It looked like a walk in the park. Of course, it helps immeasurably to have a talented offensive line and a good running back, (we need those things .... for a long, long time now) .... but his super quick release and the way the ball jumped out of his hand were simply amazing. He is a treat to watch .... I can't wait to see him again ! Reminds me of what my beloved college voice teacher told me one time. He went to NYC to get his nis Masters and Doctorate degrees .... a lot more opportunity to interface with the world of Opera than in Texas. His voice teacher was a mature Dutch bass, with a big head of white hair, a huge flaming red beard, who would rattle the windows when laughing, or singing . He said "I saw Caruso - twice" ! Doc was flabbergasted .... "what was he like" ? Doc asked. The big Dutch Bass, looked off somewhere, seriously pondering the thought. He slowly turned back and quietly said "Once I heard that sound, I hungered for it until I could hear it again ! That's kinda the way I felt watching Stroud in that game !
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Fools gold, not a bad QB, but he;s got terrible judgement in people around him. Tell me he will lsten to the QB coach of whatever team drafts him more than Avery and I think he has a chance to be successful. Doubtful this ever happens.
 
rmartin65 said:
No worries.

I can't really speak for the guys who played before my time, but I think Stroud has a better set of tools than previous/recent OSU QBs. Let's go through them a bit-

Fields is the latest, the 11th pick in 2021. So really we are looking at the 4th QB selected in the draft in just his second year in the league. He hasn't been great, but I don't think we can really qualify him as a bust just yet. In any case- I think the big thing that separates Stroud and Fields is anticipation. Stroud does a great job in not only anticipating when players are open (which, to be fair, isn't particularly challenging in that offense/with the talent at WR), but when pressure is coming. He never really looks uncomfortable or surprised at what the defense is doing, and I think that goes a long way.

Before Fields was Dwayne Haskins (RIP), the 15th pick in 2019. I'll stand by his arm talent- that was absolutely NFL quality. Again, though, I think what makes Stroud the superior prospect is his understanding of the game and opposing defenses. Haskins probably had the talent to be an NFLer, but went to the NFL (and then played too early) earlier than he should have. If he had either taken another year in school (he only had one season as a starter) or taken a real redshirt year in the NFL, things may have been different. It also likely didn't help that his first NFL off-season was in the COVID times.

Then we have Cardale Jones, who, by the time the draft rolled around, no one was looking at him as a potential high-end QB. Same with Pryor, Smith, and Krenzel- none of those guys were thought of as top-end NFL QBs (or, for some, even NFL QBs) by the time they left Columbus. Stroud, for the time being, is seen as that kind of guy- the arm talent, the processing ability, the maturity, all strike me as either high-end or potentially high-end (arm wise, I think his arm strength is only average or maybe a bit above average- it won't limit the playbook, but it isn't a cannon).

To me, all this doesn't indicate a problem with OSU QBs and the draft (which isn't the question, but I'm here, so what the hell)- we are not seeing a pattern of these guys getting overrated and overdrafted.

And of the 3 1st round guys (Stroud, Fields, Haskins), I think Stroud is the best due to his mental game. He might actually have the worst arm of the 3, but due to his feel for defenses and ability to go through progressions effectively, it doesn't hamper his game.

We'll see, though. I'm no scout, just a guy that likes football. I could very well be wrong.

Late edit- I noticed a typo where I referred to Stroud as Fields.
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Excellent analysis. He is mentally strong, a winner, competitive and leader. He sees the field better than most I’ve seen, at any school. Like you said, “goes through his progressions effectively”, with enough athletic talent, size and speed to extend plays. As opposed to all other Buckeye QB the light has turned on and his understanding of football, in all phases is elite.
 
justmy2cents said:
You saw him play this season Steel ?
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Yep, all Ohio St. QB's look great in college. He's got better skill position players around him than many NFL teams have around their QB's including the Texans. So of course he's going to look great against college players. I could be wrong but I wouldn't sell the farm to get an Ohio St. QB. Many teams have done this and they've all paid the price.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep, all Ohio St. QB's look great in college. He's got better skill position players around him than many NFL teams have around their QB's including the Texans. So of course he's going to look great against college players. I could be wrong but I wouldn't sell the farm to get an Ohio St. QB. Many teams have done this and they've all paid the price.
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I literally went through this- of the OSU starting QBs of the last 20ish years, only 2 were drafted in the first round, and only one in the top half of the first (11th overall/4th QB in the draft). And only for him was a trade-up involved, and I don't know if I would deem it a farm-selling type of trade.

I'll never understand cutting players from consideration just because of their school. I mean, man, the Rams really messed up by drafting Cooper Kupp back in 2017! They had never even had a WR with any real NFL success, obvious bust. Now, ArDarius Stewart from Alabama, noted football school, that young man is clearly a star in the making.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep, all Ohio St. QB's look great in college. He's got better skill position players around him than many NFL teams have around their QB's including the Texans. So of course he's going to look great against college players. I could be wrong but I wouldn't sell the farm to get an Ohio St. QB. Many teams have done this and they've all paid the price.
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So you'd pass on Joe Burrow based on the not so illustrious history of LSU QBs..
 
QB’s drafted in RD1 are usually from a very coddled group of athletes. In HS, they were especially coddled. In CFB, it gets tougher but the top QB is well taken care of.

When these guys are drafted and receive that big payday…..it’s hard to determine who’ll remain grounded and continue to work on their game as if their life depended on it. A lot of these guys get caught up in the money, fame, and women….so much so, they forget what they were drafted to do.

Manning’s and Luck come to mind as premier QB’s who just put in the work so they would be successful. There are others, but they’re the ones that come to mind immediately.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
QB’s drafted in RD1 are usually from a very coddled group of athletes. In HS, they were especially coddled. In CFB, it gets tougher but the top QB is well taken care of.

When these guys are drafted and receive that big payday…..it’s hard to determine who’ll remain grounded and continue to work on their game as if their life depended on it. A lot of these guys get caught up in the money, fame, and women….so much so, they forget what they were drafted to do.

Manning’s and Luck come to mind as premier QB’s who just put in the work so they would be successful. There are others, but they’re the ones that come to mind immediately.
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interview process should put to bed those concerns and highlight a players true character and mental make-up, one way or another.

 
rmartin65 said:
I literally went through this- of the OSU starting QBs of the last 20ish years, only 2 were drafted in the first round, and only one in the top half of the first (11th overall/4th QB in the draft). And only for him was a trade-up involved, and I don't know if I would deem it a farm-selling type of trade.

I'll never understand cutting players from consideration just because of their school. I mean, man, the Rams really messed up by drafting Cooper Kupp back in 2017! They had never even had a WR with any real NFL success, obvious bust. Now, ArDarius Stewart from Alabama, noted football school, that young man is clearly a star in the making.
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The Buckeyes run a version of the Clemson offense which leaves QBs totally unprepared for the NFL. Look at the supposed generational talent in Lawrence and how he's done. Now that he's got the benefit of working with Pederson maybe he will amount to something more than a bust.
 
beerlover said:
interview process should put to bed those concerns and highlight a players true character and mental make-up, one way or another.

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The first question I would ask, you just found out you won the lottery......in 3-5 minutes, lay out your plan on how you would utilize this money. Don't say another word.....listen and take notes.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The first question I would ask, you just found out you won the lottery......in 3-5 minutes, lay out your plan on how you would utilize this money. Don't say another word.....listen and take notes.
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Did you listen to interview and how different both prospects are? For example, who bought the Lamborghini and who drives the community van?
 
steelbtexan said:
Burrow worked in the Saints pro style offense with Joe Brady.

Apples and oranges comparison. But you already know that.
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Ohio St. ran a contemporary pro style offense years ago, I mean if that's where the goalposts are going to be for a while..

Your argument's been that a kid can't succeed if he comes from a school where no one has succeeded at his position before him.

Well, that was your argument until I gave you an example. Go ahead and pack the goalposts up again though, it's all good.
 
Regarding the Buckeyes offense, I think WR/passing coordinator Brian Hartline has made a big difference the past few seasons. Hartline was a solid possession receiver for the Dolphins and was coached by a couple of big time NFL offensive minds in Brian Daboll & Zac Taylor. Hartline is a name to watch both in the college and pro ranks.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Ohio St. ran a contemporary pro style offense years ago, I mean if that's where the goalposts are going to be for a while..

Your argument's been that a kid can't succeed if he comes from a school where no one has succeeded at his position before him.

Well, that was your argument until I gave you an example. Go ahead and pack the goalposts up again though, it's all good.
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I gave you my thoughts, you can either except them, or make a BS post like this.

I should have known not to reply to you, but I wanted other posters that actually like me, unlike you, to know where I stand.
 
beerlover said:
Would take Stroud in a heartbeat. Easy peasy :koolaid:
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I need to see more from him.

He's got a few things that really bother me, particularly footwork and the throwing motion has a hitch in it.

Footwork is notoriously difficult to fix in a QB. They've done X for years and now you ask them to do Y or Z instead .... they might do it most of the time but when the heats on, they go to what's instinctual and more often than not that's how they learned to begin with.
 
Corrosion said:
I need to see more from him.

He's got a few things that really bother me, particularly footwork and the throwing motion has a hitch in it.

Footwork is notoriously difficult to fix in a QB. They've done X for years and now you ask them to do Y or Z instead .... they might do it most of the time but when the heats on, they go to what's instinctual and more often than not that's how they learned to begin with.
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Footwork is easier to fix vs throwing motion. Thats why Allen had improved soo much, his footwork improved
 
leebigeztx said:
He's basing it on Avery being his qb coach. The same coach as Watson. It has nothing to do with the player.
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BS post of the day. Although it does point to Stroud's lack of judgement. After all, they say you are who you hand around and Derrick has proven these people have no morals. Good luck with that.

I don't like him for the on field reasons I listed above. He's a good not great player who surrounds himself with shady people. Pass and I'm pretty positive the McNair's agree with me.
 
Corrosion said:
I need to see more from him.

He's got a few things that really bother me, particularly footwork and the throwing motion has a hitch in it.

Footwork is notoriously difficult to fix in a QB. They've done X for years and now you ask them to do Y or Z instead .... they might do it most of the time but when the heats on, they go to what's instinctual and more often than not that's how they learned to begin with.
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Do you think Stroud will listen to NFL coaching, or Avery? We know what Derrick did.
 
steelbtexan said:
BS post of the day. Although it does point to Stroud's lack of judgement. After all, they say you are who you hand around and Derrick has proven these people have no morals. Good luck with that.

I don't like him for the on field reasons I listed above. He's a good not great player who surrounds himself with shady people. Pass and I'm pretty positive the McNair's agree with me.
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So all those guys that have Avery as a qb coach have bad judgement? How do you know he's not a great player? Do you know anything about Stroud from a personal standpoint to make you assumptions?
 
leebigeztx said:
So all those guys that have Avery as a qb coach have bad judgement? How do you know he's not a great player? Do you know anything about Stroud from a personal standpoint to make you assumptions?
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Yes

Tell me what outstanding traits you see in Stroud? Arm strength? Nope accuracy? Somewhat, but remember that with the talent around him he's often throwing into huge windows that wont be there in the NFL. Ability to read NFL defenses is somewhat limited by being in the Ohio St. offense. Put all of this together and knowing if he's anygood and I'm wrong the trash that represents him wont have him honor the contract that he signed. Yep I'll pass on that crap. If he was Manning/Elway etc.. type talent I would deal with it. He's not. Of Course Manning/Elway/Luck etc... wouldn't have the trash that's representing Stroud representing them. So there is that.

I've already given you my thoughts on why I dont think Stroud will be anything more than a top 10-15 QB on talent alone.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yes

Tell me what outstanding traits you see in Stroud? Arm strength? Nope accuracy? Somewhat, but remember that with the talent around him he's often throwing into huge windows that wont be there in the NFL. Ability to read NFL defenses is somewhat limited by being in the Ohio St. offense. Put all of this together and knowing if he's anygood and I'm wrong the trash that represents him wont have him honor the contract that he signed. Yep I'll pass on that crap. If he was Manning/Elway etc.. type talent I would deal with it. He's not. Of Course Manning/Elway/Luck etc... wouldn't have the trash that's representing Stroud representing them. So there is that.

I've already given you my thoughts on why I dont think Stroud will be anything more than a top 10-15 QB on talent alone.
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Oh, so if the talent was to your liking, you would dismount you moral high horse and deal with it correct? Miss me on that contract bs, players get cut all the time. That contract means nothing. Like you always bring up, its not your money.
Back to Stroud, it seems Davis Mills has none of that either, yet you continue to tout him as if he has those same things you say Stroud doesn't have. He has a plus arm, he has mobility, if you even listen to anyone thats someone, they say he a hard worker because he wasn't a top recruit early and he's humble.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm saying if there was a disagreement between the way Avery/BOB wanted things done he would listen to Avery.
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See there you go again. Avery is controlling people, which he's not. Avery like Jordan Palmer and all the other qb coaches are there for fundamental work and stuff like that, they don't tell them what plays to run or not run, etc.. You're making up ish again,but thats expected.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yes

Tell me what outstanding traits you see in Stroud? Arm strength? Nope accuracy? Somewhat, but remember that with the talent around him he's often throwing into huge windows that wont be there in the NFL. Ability to read NFL defenses is somewhat limited by being in the Ohio St. offense. Put all of this together and knowing if he's anygood and I'm wrong the trash that represents him wont have him honor the contract that he signed. Yep I'll pass on that crap. If he was Manning/Elway etc.. type talent I would deal with it. He's not. Of Course Manning/Elway/Luck etc... wouldn't have the trash that's representing Stroud representing them. So there is that.

I've already given you my thoughts on why I dont think Stroud will be anything more than a top 10-15 QB on talent alone.
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He has a great arm and a quick release. The ball explodes out of his hand. Tight spiral, no wobble and he has a really good touch
 
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