Taylor Mays 4.24! (NOT!)

[awtysst]

If Mays is there at #20, we may pick him up. It will be very difficult to pass him up. Don't you think? But it's so funny that I can actually see Al doing that tho.

Why would we take him? He is Roy WIlliams the saftey part II. What did he do at the combine to remove that thought? Absolutely nothing. He is a classic Saftey-WILL tweaner and we already have his predecessor on the Practice Squad: Darnell Bing. Why would we want another one?

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

No, not a booster. I just think that a lot of the reps that players get during the combine become exaggerated caricatures based on "what people are saying." There becomes a group think that becomes the new reality.

Totally agree with you, but this mentality about Mays has been around for 2 years.

Sorry to burst this bubble but the Raiders do not have a 3rd round pick this year, they traded it to New England.

What!? son of al davis... I looked at seattle trading up for ot charles brown but they didn't have a 3rd. then i went to washington but i dont think they have a 3rd. i think one i did with kansas city, they had a 3rd.

Have them throw in Michael Bush instead of the 3rd and we'll be alright.

 

[Jackie Chiles]

Why would we take him? He is Roy WIlliams the saftey part II. What did he do at the combine to remove that thought? Absolutely nothing. He is a classic Saftey-WILL tweaner and we already have his predecessor on the Practice Squad: Darnell Bing. Why would we want another one?

Those guys are tweeners because they can't run. Mays can run circles around Williams and pretty much all the other defensive backs in this draft.

 

[IDEXAN]

Mays will probably yet run his sub 4.3 this year but at his teams Pro-Day. Now if you want to accept that time that the USC crowd says their golden-boy runs, well I've got some real attractive Louisiana real estate that would be the perfect site your new home. Its got a real good price !
And did anybody else see Mays runs his positional drills today ? If so, you saw what looked like a drunk on roller skates. He's not a DB, but he could be a helluva WIL with his size and speed.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I took him my first mock when Thomas was gone. And who knows, maybe if Thomas played for four years people would be nitpicking his game.

I think there's a lot of depth in what the Texans need but I don't think a first tier need player will be there at 20 . Mays has 1st tier numbers and if he can be coached ... watch out . If he can't and plays special teams ... watch out .

 

[Lucky]

The NFL network does this overlay thing where they show stride for stride how different players do activities, like running. So you can see their relative acceleration. This is the screen shot of a finish for a number of the fastest players.

If Mays' time was wrong, who's to say that the other times today are not wrong? Or maybe the times today were correct and the previous days were wrong? It makes me question much of the information received from Indy.

Berry, Mays, or Thomas would look great in a Texan uniform. I still think the Texans need to do a better job of controlling the line of scrimmage. So I would prefer seeing a defensive tackle, all things being equal. But I wouldn't complain about a Mays or Thomas in the 1st round.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

I took him my first mock when Thomas was gone. And who knows, maybe if Thomas played for four years people would be nitpicking his game.

There is something to this, but 5 interceptions over 3 years for a DB is not that good.

Now, to talk out of the other side of the mouth, when coaches and scouts are looking at specific players they are thinking about how a players fits into specific things that the team wants to do. Mays is a player that if you ask him to do the right things he can be a superstar, but in the wrong system looks awful. Whether the Texans have the right system is a big question. If you look at the last two first rounders: Brown and Cushing they fit into the Texans systems perfectly. An organization needs clarity about what it is looking for because the guys like Berry and Thomas who fit into any system at the same level of play are more exceptins than rules.

 

[Texans_Chick]

If Mays' time was wrong, who's to say that the other times today are not wrong? Or maybe the times today were correct and the previous days were wrong? It makes me question much of the information received from Indy.

Berry, Mays, or Thomas would look great in a Texan uniform. I still think the Texans need to do a better job of controlling the line of scrimmage. So I would prefer seeing a defensive tackle, all things being equal. But I wouldn't complain about a Mays or Thomas in the 1st round.

I'd prefer seeing a quality defensive tackle but boy howdy, there have been some really sketchy choices on the defensive line in recent years. Can't miss players missing (or like my blog post the other day that quoted a much read draft site comparing Okoye to Reggie Freaking White).

The defensive line is such a premium position that teams tend overdraft near the top of the draft. Hard to say that recent year drafts are busts, but DT is a position where guys have to grow into it.

I'd almost prefer a middle of the pack journeyman FA who is physically developed and understands technique and what it takes to play in the NFL over another baby DT. I'd like the special rookie DT for the team, but can they identify him?

 

[Mr teX]

Which is stupid. Everyone has seen his film. Everyone considered him a top 10 pick and the consensus #1 CB before he ran the 40 and now because he ran a "bad" time he's suddenly not worth that pick? No, I don't think so. I don't care how fast or slow he runs the forty-yard dash, the kid can play CB and I would still draft him in the top 10 regardless. The 40 has nothing to do with a kid's ability to play the position. Scouts saying otherwise is just their way of trying to over-evaluate the draft process.

You are absolutely nuts. the 40 probably matters more for a cb than any other position on the field. The guy on NFL network explained it best when he said "they don't call it make up speed for nothing". meaning, if you get beat & don't have the speed to make up the stagger, you're done. Isn't that part of the justification for those wanting Dunta outta here; b/c he's lost a step & couldn't keep up with the speedsters? Next to technique, speed is the number 1 requirement for a great db & to be honest, Haden didn't look all that great doing that either which is why analysts are saying he left the door open in the 1st place.

 

[IDEXAN]

If Mays' time was wrong, who's to say that the other times today are not wrong? Or maybe the times today were correct and the previous days were wrong? It makes me question much of the information received from Indy.

I'm not totally comfortable with the Indy info either, but do you really feel any better about what the schools put out about their own athletes on ProDays ?

 

[Mr teX]

Totally agree with you, but this mentality about Mays has been around for 2 years.

What!? son of al davis... I looked at seattle trading up for ot charles brown but they didn't have a 3rd. then i went to washington but i dont think they have a 3rd. i think one i did with kansas city, they had a 3rd.

Have them throw in Michael Bush instead of the 3rd and we'll be alright.

If this talk were out about mays last year, he wouldn't have been considered a consensus top 5 pick. All of this came about after this past season when USC couldn't get any pressure on the Qb & left the secondary exposed, which is basically what has been happening to us every year of our existence.

 

[Hervoyel]

If Mays had some pass coverage skills and tackling skills he'd be scary good. He's got all the physical skills, I wonder if he can learn pass coverage skills, learn to play the ball and not the WR, and surely he can learn to wrap up when tackling.

I've seen guys come here and "un-learn" basic football skills like that so I can only assume it's possible for it to work the other way.

 

[wagonhed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDhYKZHKh4Q

 

[WolverineFan]

You are absolutely nuts. the 40 probably matters more for a cb than any other position on the field. The guy on NFL network explained it best when he said "they don't call it make up speed for nothing". meaning, if you get beat & don't have the speed to make up the stagger, you're done. Isn't that part of the justification for those wanting Dunta outta here; b/c he's lost a step & couldn't keep up with the speedsters? Next to technique, speed is the number 1 requirement for a great db & to be honest, Haden didn't look all that great doing that either which is why analysts are saying he left the door open in the 1st place.

No, people who just know nothing about CB think it is the most important thing. I played CB pretty much my entire football career. I was never the fastest guy on the field and was usually the smallest. Never got beat deep. Technique and instincts beat speed every damn day of the week.

Also, if you have great technique then you don't need "make up speed" because you are always in good position and not getting beat in the first place.

On top of that, I can name 5 things right now that are more important to being a CB than top-end speed.

1) Technique
2) Instincts
3) Confidence
4) Intelligence
5) Quickness

All of these things are more important than top-end speed. Now if this was a 2nd-3rd round prospect that ran those times then I would agree that his draft stock is dropping. However, Haden was a consensus top 10 pick based on FILM, which is the only thing that really matters, and just because he ran a sub-par 40 has nothing to do with his ability to play the position. It is a way for some of these bonehead scouts and internet GM's to try and prove how much they know, or don't know.

 

[WolverineFan]

Also, if anyone else knows anything about strength training and training for these types of drills then I think you'll agree with me that Haden's starting form was terrible. He was completely off balance to start and got a very weak first step. I would expect his time to be much better at his pro day.

He also looked fantastic in his position drills. Anybody saying that he will drop out of the 1st round is a fool.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

If this talk were out about mays last year, he wouldn't have been considered a consensus top 5 pick. All of this came about after this past season when USC couldn't get any pressure on the Qb & left the secondary exposed, which is basically what has been happening to us every year of our existence.

He had a lot of hype for the exact same reasons why he does today, physical freak. Closer draft time he wasn't considered a consensus top 5 pick, everyone thought he'd go #10 to SF or #12 to Denver. The knocks on Mays are nothing new and this past season hasn't caused any of it... the same problems were discussed last year as we are doing right now: poor coverage skills, goes for the big hit, wreckless, not a wrap up tackler. We're having the exact same debate we did 12 months ago. The minute he decided to go back to school was the minute he became at best the #2 safety in this class- everyone knew Eric Berry was better and nothing changed that.

Also, if he was exposed b/c of USC's lack of ability to create pressure on the QB then how is he going to help here?

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

Also, if anyone else knows anything about strength training and training for these types of drills then I think you'll agree with me that Haden's starting form was terrible. He was completely off balance to start and got a very weak first step. I would expect his time to be much better at his pro day.

He also looked fantastic in his position drills. Anybody saying that he will drop out of the 1st round is a fool.

I'd like watching CB drills when they back pedal, flip their hips and then run out b/c that mirrors what they're doing on the football field. Not coming out of a track stance running straight.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

To give credit where credit is due though, that video clip from nfl network was impressive. Mays beasted over the other smaller players and was just as fast. I would not want to get hit by this guy at all.

 

[SAMURAITEXAN]

Why would we take him? He is Roy WIlliams the saftey part II. What did he do at the combine to remove that thought? Absolutely nothing. He is a classic Saftey-WILL tweaner and we already have his predecessor on the Practice Squad: Darnell Bing. Why would we want another one?

awtysst, let me get this straight. First of all, I am not on Mays' bandwagon. My post was posted when he ran 4.24(unofficial time) and clearly said we MAY pick him up at #20. Other reasons of Mays posted in my earlier post so please read it. Anyway, what I am saying is that with Mays measurement and 4.24 speed, worth a hard look about this prospect. That was all I was trying to say.

Now, I have a question to you awtysst, how can you be so certain that he will be Roy Williams the safety part II? I can understand someone questioning his ability due to his 2009 performance and he may be Roy Williams safety part II.
But, can't be certain about how he will play at the next level. Can you?

I am just a fan of the Texans and not an expert. But I do believe, Mays may become legit 1st rd Safety prospect at least more than I used to think. But who knows he may not.

 

[phantom17]

Yeah! I can see Al jumping off his chair just about now.

You mean jumping out from his grave!

 

[WolverineFan]

awtysst, let me get this straight. First of all, I am not on Mays' bandwagon. My post was posted when he ran 4.24(unofficial time) and clearly said we MAY pick him up at #20. Other reasons of Mays posted in my earlier post so please read it. Anyway, what I am saying is that with Mays measurement and 4.24 speed, worth a hard look about this prospect. That was all I was trying to say.

Now, I have a question to you awtysst, how can you be so certain that he will be Roy Williams the safety part II? I can understand someone questioning his ability due to his 2009 performance and he may be Roy Williams safety part II.
But, can't be certain about how he will play at the next level. Can you?

I am just a fan of the Texans and not an expert. But I do believe, Mays may become legit 1st rd Safety prospect at least more than I used to think. But who knows he may not.

I'll continue to say it. As a SS prospect, Mays is a top 15 player in this draft. But as a FS prospect he's not in the top 30, despite his measurables. If the Texans needed a SS then I would take him at 20 no problem, but we don't. We need a ballhawking type FS and that's not Mays. That's Eric Berry and Earl Thomas.

 

[b0ng]

Watching the replay there's no way Mays ran anything above a 4.4. It doesn't look Chris Johnson fast, but he's easily one of the two or three fastest guys in the Combine.

Knowing this doesn't change my stance because it was well rumored that he would run a fast 40. I really just don't like his game in comparison to Thomas, and maybe that is because Mays played his senior season. But it is what it is, and game film rarely tells lies.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

Knowing this doesn't change my stance because it was well rumored that he would run a fast 40. I really just don't like his game in comparison to Thomas, and maybe that is because Mays played his senior season. But it is what it is, and game film rarely tells lies.

This is one thing that I don't understand how people can use as an excuse or an arguement though. It makes zero sense to me and it's used for all sorts of players (William Moore last year).

The arguement is basically: if he came out last year he would have been a high draft pick. However, he played an extra year in college which gave scouts more games/more film to watch and analyze him. There's now a bigger body of work to judge him on. But sense it didn't help him, it shouldn't count... it shouldn't be allowed to hurt him.

That mindset makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[b0ng]

This is one thing that I don't understand how people can use as an excuse or an arguement though. It makes zero sense to me and it's used for all sorts of players (William Moore last year).

The arguement is basically: if he came out last year he would have been a high draft pick. However, he played an extra year in college which gave scouts more games/more film to watch and analyze him. There's now a bigger body of work to judge him on. But sense it didn't help him, it shouldn't count... it shouldn't be allowed to hurt him.

That mindset makes absolutely no sense to me.

This is why you just leave as a junior now. If he would've went last year there's no way he wouldn't have gone in the top 10 (That combine time is going to be poured over a lot before the draft). Instead he placed doubt in the minds of lots of scouts by having a ho-hum senior season and some people are mad he's not held in such high regard.

He still has a chance to go top 10 (Raiders at #8 though as somebody alluded to.) but it's nowhere near the chance it would've been last year. I didn't think USC really had a chance to win the championship with some of the best parts of the defense leaving, so why he stayed is a real mystery to me.

If the Texans did some kind of crazy trade down, and got him extremely late in the first with a few more picks in the 2nd 3rd and 4th rounds I wouldn't be too sour on him. Picking him straight up at 20 (especially if there are other DB's available such as Thomas, Hayden, or maybe one random DB that I determine later) would definitely leave a nasty after taste.

 

[Mailman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDhYKZHKh4Q

MoveTheSticks tweet -- I'm in Dallas on my way home. I guess there were issues with the electronic time for Mays. I talked to two scouts and they had him 430, 428

 

[SAMURAITEXAN]

You mean jumping out from his grave!

Ha ha. Please be nice to an old man as he only has a few more miles left in his tank.

 

[SAMURAITEXAN]

I'll continue to say it. As a SS prospect, Mays is a top 15 player in this draft. But as a FS prospect he's not in the top 30, despite his measurables. If the Texans needed a SS then I would take him at 20 no problem, but we don't. We need a ballhawking type FS and that's not Mays. That's Eric Berry and Earl Thomas.

I can see your take. He may also able to play situational LB position as well. Very intriging prospect.

 

[rollinstone18]

mays may not be a ballhawk, but he is a centerfielder. just thinking of the intensity our defense would have with mays, pollard, cushing, antonio, mario and meco....that's something to fear. i'd feel better if we still had dunta but i wouldn't hesitate to draft mays if thomas or dan williams are off the board.

 

[Mr teX]

No, people who just know nothing about CB think it is the most important thing. I played CB pretty much my entire football career. I was never the fastest guy on the field and was usually the smallest. Never got beat deep. Technique and instincts beat speed every damn day of the week.

Also, if you have great technique then you don't need "make up speed" because you are always in good position and not getting beat in the first place.

On top of that, I can name 5 things right now that are more important to being a CB than top-end speed.

1) Technique
2) Instincts
3) Confidence
4) Intelligence
5) Quickness

All of these things are more important than top-end speed. Now if this was a 2nd-3rd round prospect that ran those times then I would agree that his draft stock is dropping. However, Haden was a consensus top 10 pick based on FILM, which is the only thing that really matters, and just because he ran a sub-par 40 has nothing to do with his ability to play the position. It is a way for some of these bonehead scouts and internet GM's to try and prove how much they know, or don't know.

Well, Forgive me if i go with the opinions 100's of pro scouts, former players and my own experience as a db in my "career" lol.

Im not saying speed is the only thing that matters for a cb, but i believe it matters more than you would like to let on for them.

For 1, every cb that matters or has mattered in the league over the last umpteen years or so has been a 4.4 guy or better coming out of college..that's not an accident.

2nd, speed is the no. 1 problem rookies have trouble with when they make the leap from college to the nfl, & that's true across the board. So how do you figure it is the 6th most important attribute for a player who's job it is to shadow the fastest guys on the field? Technique can only do so much.

3rd, I think people look at the 40 in the wrong way. it doesn't just show top end speed. it also provides a very good look at acceleration, aka how fast that player can get to top end speed. This goes with the quickness & closing speed factor you cited above and has important ramifications for a cb when you are beat. And make no mistake about it, you will get beat from time to time in the NFL; depending on your closing speed, it can be the difference between a regular gain & a TD depending on the situation. To sum it up, these aren't things that you can coach up like technique, intelligence etc.

For Haden's sake, i hope his slow time was just a fluke due to terrible starting form, but no way should he be drafted in the top 10 if his 40 time is anywhere near what it was at the NFL combine, i don't care what his tape says.

 

[wagonhed]

Deion Sanders, considered both the best CB and the fastest player in the NFL during his time (unless I'm remembering wrong about the speed thing, certainly one of the fastest). Doesn't that say something about speed for CBs?

Personally I've always thought that speed and agility in a CB were more important than almost any physical attribute in other positions, more important than strength for Oline, speed for WRs, agility in RBs, quickness in DEs, etc.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

For what its worth I think Asante Samuel ran a 4.5 and he's got like the most interceptions of any CB in the league.

I can see it going one of two ways. (1) Kubiak/Smith see Mays' incredible talent and think they can coach him to work out in whatever safety system we run/will run. or (2) Kubiak/Smith think Mays doesnt have the instinct of a football player they want and completely dismiss him.

 

[kiwitexansfan]

I could see us taking him, that USC team was not the same team as it has been last year. It is understandable a DB struggling with the front 7 not performing.

I think ideally if we could slip down a few spots, get some more picks, and then grab Mays I'd be happy

 

[BigBull17]

Scott Wright had him in the high 4.2s . This after going back and timing the replay to verify it .

This is a tough one for me because I might bite if Earl Thomas is gone . Why ... cause a big safety ( if he was a sure tackler ) to lay the lumber to the running QBs in our division plus CJ and MJD would be nice . If he could harrass Dallas Clark , that would be a bonus . A guy with this type of size/speed is rare . Besides if he can't cover we can move him to OLB or RB ... right .

If we still want interchangable safties, the we take him. If we want a ball hawk, we pass. Simple stuff.

 

[Texecutioner]

Well, Forgive me if i go with the opinions 100's of pro scouts, former players and my own experience as a db in my "career" lol.

Im not saying speed is the only thing that matters for a cb, but i believe it matters more than you would like to let on for them.

For 1, every cb that matters or has mattered in the league over the last umpteen years or so has been a 4.4 guy or better coming out of college..that's not an accident.

2nd, speed is the no. 1 problem rookies have trouble with when they make the leap from college to the nfl, & that's true across the board. So how do you figure it is the 6th most important attribute for a player who's job it is to shadow the fastest guys on the field? Technique can only do so much.

3rd, I think people look at the 40 in the wrong way. it doesn't just show top end speed. it also provides a very good look at acceleration, aka how fast that player can get to top end speed. This goes with the quickness & closing speed factor you cited above and has important ramifications for a cb when you are beat. And make no mistake about it, you will get beat from time to time in the NFL; depending on your closing speed, it can be the difference between a regular gain & a TD depending on the situation. To sum it up, these aren't things that you can coach up like technique, intelligence etc.

For Haden's sake, i hope his slow time was just a fluke due to terrible starting form, but no way should he be drafted in the top 10 if his 40 time is anywhere near what it was at the NFL combine, i don't care what his tape says.

Agreed. Speed is a very important factor for any DB and especially corners. All the technique in the world isn't going to help you if you're D line isn't getting pressure on the QB and you're having to run toe to toe with a speedy WR on a long ball or a slant down the field. Technique and skill is still very important, but the speed has to be there and quickness as well which has to do with recovery on plays where you get faked and can get back in position. Those aren't always skills that you can teach. You either have it or you don't.

 

[bah007]

I'm not worried about Haden. If you saw his form then you would realize he is faster than that time.

Reading a route, turning your hips, and covering a guy for 40 yards is not comparable in any way to running 40 yards in a straight line from a sprinter's stance.

If he had showed great technique while making that run then I would be worried about his top end speed. But some of the fastest guys in the 40 are slower on the field because there are several ways to cheat the clock in a 40 yard dash (not literally cheat, but improve technique).

The technique you use while running a 40 yard dash is not the same as the technique you use with pads on and a football in the air, nor should it be.

 

[Mr teX]

I'm not worried about Haden. If you saw his form then you would realize he is faster than that time.

Reading a route, turning your hips, and covering a guy for 40 yards is not comparable in any way to running 40 yards in a straight line from a sprinter's stance.

If he had showed great technique while making that run then I would be worried about his top end speed. But some of the fastest guys in the 40 are slower on the field because there are several ways to cheat the clock in a 40 yard dash (not literally cheat, but improve technique).

The technique you use while running a 40 yard dash is not the same as the technique you use with pads on and a football in the air, nor should it be.

yeah, but the question is HOW much faster is he from what he ran at the combine. I mean, he did run a 4.6 on his 2nd one & i know there are ways to improve your time via technique but dude would have to shave damn near a full second off his 40 time to get in that speed range for teams to feel comfortable selecting him that high. Everyone knows that colleges exagerate 40 times for their players but Florida in particular has taken huge hits over the last couple of years when it comes to this and thier "fastest team in america" mantra.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Fine-we-get-it-Florida-is-fast-There-s-no-nee?urn=ncaaf,147026

here's another after Haden's NFL combine 40's.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Haden-Mays-reminds-us-again-to-beware-the-cult-?urn=ncaaf,225322

 

[Ckw]

Wrong thread....

 

[b0ng]

yeah, but the question is HOW much faster is he from what he ran at the combine. I mean, he did run a 4.6 on his 2nd one & i know there are ways to improve your time via technique but dude would have to shave damn near a full second off his 40 time to get in that speed range for teams to feel comfortable selecting him that high. Everyone knows that colleges exagerate 40 times for their players but Florida in particular has taken huge hits over the last couple of years when it comes to this and thier "fastest team in america" mantra.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Fine-we-get-it-Florida-is-fast-There-s-no-nee?urn=ncaaf,147026

here's another after Haden's NFL combine 40's.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Haden-Mays-reminds-us-again-to-beware-the-cult-?urn=ncaaf,225322

I'm hoping you mean a tenth of a second. Otherwise he might as well train in track and field and go to the Olypmics.

 

[Dutchrudder]

Why is anyone talking about the Texans drafting a SS? We have Bernard Pollard, who is a hell of a lot better than this rookie will be. He proved himself this year, and as long as Pollard keeps it up, there's no need to waste a first round pick on a strong position.

 

[WolverineFan]

Why is anyone talking about the Texans drafting a SS? We have Bernard Pollard, who is a hell of a lot better than this rookie will be. He proved himself this year, and as long as Pollard keeps it up, there's no need to waste a first round pick on a strong position.

It's because Mays is being hyped up as a FS prospect despite his film providing overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If he ran a 4.5 then scouts would see the light and project him as a SS, but he runs a 4.3 so they will continue to push the idea of him being a deep safety down everyone's throat.

 

[Dutchrudder]

It's because Mays is being hyped up as a FS prospect despite his film providing overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If he ran a 4.5 then scouts would see the light and project him as a SS, but he runs a 4.3 so they will continue to push the idea of him being a deep safety down everyone's throat.

Ah, that makes a little more sense, but I still don't see him being a FS at the NFL level. I guess this is also assuming that Earl Thomas isn't there when they pick. Sad, I was hoping they would get him.

 

[Gymrat2005]

I want everyone to mark my words when I say this,Taylor Mays will not be a Texan,Even in 2008 with that Defence he still wouldnt play the ball,the dude has below average ball skills

He is a Vernon Davis 2.0

1.We dont need a SS,we have Pollard

2.Alot of teams have Converted their safety's to outside linebackers over the years if they just arent hacking it,we have arguebly the best LB core in the NFL right now.

3.If we do draft a safety,it will be the Quentisential FS by the book all around ball hawk,not Taylor Mays by any means,he can lay the wood,he can run sub 4.4,and he is 230 pounds. But he is and never will be a ballhawk.

He is not worth a 1st round pick to teach the guy how to play the ball,if he couldnt do it in college.

What makes some of you think he can learn to in the pro's?

 

[TheRealJoker]

I'd be interested to hear if Cushing has been pushing Mays to the Texans coaching staff. I think he played himself out of the 1st round but if he's still there in the 2nd round I wouldn't mind the Texans picking him up. Mays might do a lot better with the talent we have on defense vs what USC had after the NFL fleeced them in 08.

1st round however, we need someone with better instincts, even if they aren't as physically impressive.

 

[WolverineFan]

I'd be interested to hear if Cushing has been pushing Mays to the Texans coaching staff. I think he played himself out of the 1st round but if he's still there in the 2nd round I wouldn't mind the Texans picking him up. Mays might do a lot better with the talent we have on defense vs what USC had after the NFL fleeced them in 08.

1st round however, we need someone with better instincts, even if they aren't as physically impressive.

NFL scouts are stupid. Any player that weighs 230+ and can run a 4.3 will get drafted in the 1st round. No way he drops out of the 1st. His game tape says 2nd round pick at best (as a FS at least), but his measureables say top 10 pick. Which do you think NFL teams will put more stock into?

If someone drafts him in the top 15 as a SS then I will give them at least an A- for that pick. If anybody drafts him in the 1st round as a FS I will give them an F. Somebody will draft him in the 1st though, you can bet on that.

 

[bah007]

NFL scouts are stupid. Any player that weighs 230+ and can run a 4.3 will get drafted in the 1st round. No way he drops out of the 1st. His game tape says 2nd round pick at best (as a FS at least), but his measureables say top 10 pick. Which do you think NFL teams will put more stock into?

If someone drafts him in the top 15 as a SS then I will give them at least an A- for that pick. If anybody drafts him in the 1st round as a FS I will give them an F. Somebody will draft him in the 1st though, you can bet on that.

It's not the scouts that are the problem. There is always that one coach with an ego big enough to convince himself that he can be the one that helps the guy reach his full potential.

 

[Mr teX]

I remember hearing this same crap about Landry vs. Nelson in 2007. Landry's a SS in the league & Nelson is the better FS prospect, Landry doesn't have the speed, he's not a ballhawk, no ball skills, technique etc, etc. Well, for a guy who supposedly couldn't play the free safety spot in the league, he's faired damn good...at least as good if not better than the "better" free safety prospect.

Is Mays rough around the edges? yes but that doesn't preclude him from being as good a prospect at the position as thomas b/c everything that's "wrong" with him can be coached up.

& for those talking about his tape, unless you're an NFL scout with access to game tape that shows him play in play out, you're basically looking at the same things i'm looking at & reading the same things from the same people.

 

[WolverineFan]

I remember hearing this same crap about Landry vs. Nelson in 2007. Landry's a SS in the league & Nelson is the better FS prospect, Landry doesn't have the speed, he's not a ballhawk, no ball skills, technique etc, etc. Well, for a guy who supposedly couldn't play the free safety spot in the league, he's faired damn good...at least as good if not better than the "better" free safety prospect.

I don't know where you're getting this from but Landry had great ball skills coming out of college and he was pretty good in coverage too. He was just used more in run support by LSU because he was a beast. He also burned a 4.4 at the combine so speed was not an issue.

It was also pretty much a consensus that for all the hype around Nelson that Landry was going to be the better player.

Is Mays rough around the edges? yes but that doesn't preclude him from being as good a prospect at the position as thomas b/c everything that's "wrong" with him can be coached up.

You can't coach someone to have the instincts to play FS. You either have them or you don't. You can teach him how to wrap-up instead of trying to kill shot everyone. You can teach him to read his keys and to have a coverage first mindset. You can run him through drills to improve his ball skills and improve his coverage skills. But you cannot play FS just because you can burn a 4.3 forty-yard dash and right now that's the only reason he's projected to be a FS.

Some GM and coach are going to convince themselves that they can do just that, but they are going to be making a mistake.

& for those talking about his tape, unless you're an NFL scout with access to game tape that shows him play in play out, you're basically looking at the same things i'm looking at & reading the same things from the same people.

Or you just watch a ton of college football. It's not like there's some secret gametape warehouse that only NFL scouts have access to. Also, if you are serious about scouting players and have an interest in it there are a ton of places you can do so using the internet. I've watched Mays closely for the past 2 years because he was considered an elite talent at Safety in the NFL. I'll tell you right now if we needed a SS then I would draft him instantly. But if you need a FS then stay away.

 

[Mr teX]

I don't know where you're getting this from but Landry had great ball skills coming out of college and he was pretty good in coverage too. He was just used more in run support by LSU because he was a beast. He also burned a 4.4 at the combine so speed was not an issue.

It was also pretty much a consensus that for all the hype around Nelson that Landry was going to be the better player.



You can't coach someone to have the instincts to play FS. You either have them or you don't. You can teach him how to wrap-up instead of trying to kill shot everyone. You can teach him to read his keys and to have a coverage first mindset. You can run him through drills to improve his ball skills and improve his coverage skills. But you cannot play FS just because you can burn a 4.3 forty-yard dash and right now that's the only reason he's projected to be a FS.

Some GM and coach are going to convince themselves that they can do just that, but they are going to be making a mistake.



Or you just watch a ton of college football. It's not like there's some secret gametape warehouse that only NFL scouts have access to. Also, if you are serious about scouting players and have an interest in it there are a ton of places you can do so using the internet. I've watched Mays closely for the past 2 years because he was considered an elite talent at Safety in the NFL. I'll tell you right now if we needed a SS then I would draft him instantly. But if you need a FS then stay away.

good post maybe i just remember alot of that from this board on Landry Nevertheless, we'll just agree to disagree. I think with the right coaching & system, the guy could flourish at either safety spot. There are many reasons why the kid struggled last year; injuries, young core group of guys around him.

 

[bah007]

good post maybe i just remember alot of that from this board on Landry Nevertheless, we'll just agree to disagree. I think with the right coaching & system, the guy could flourish at either safety spot. There are many reasons why the kid struggled last year; injuries, young core group of guys around him.

The majority of the posters on this board had a hard on for Nelson so you probably did read those things here. I got blasted here when I had the audacity to suggest that we should take Michael Griffin instead of Nelson if we had the choice.

 

[JB]

The majority of the posters on this board had a hard on for Nelson so you probably did read those things here. I got blasted here when I had the audacity to suggest that we should take Michael Griffin instead of Nelson if we had the choice.

I wasnt on the MB then, but I was reading daily. I thought that Landry was the next coming of Ronnie Lott!