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Taylor Mays 4.24! (NOT!)
- Thread starter Mailman
- Start date
nero THE zero
All Pro
It should. He was pretty much universally being left out of the first round in mocks. He's a lock to go in the first.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
2nd time he ran was 4.34 I think. Even in 4.3's with his measurement is very fast.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Yeah! I can see Al jumping off his chair just about now.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Physical Freak. Vernon Gholston 2.0
Here's a scenario. Our top players are off the board, Texans trade down with Arizona for their 2nd + 3rd round picks. Arizona selects Sean Weatherspoon (the next Demeco Ryans).
At #26, Taylor Mays is still available. Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders come calling, offer us their 2nd + 3rd round picks in exchange for Mays and our 4th rounder.
We now have THREE 2nd round picks and THREE 3rd round picks. First pick becomes #39 overall, 7th in the 2nd round. Can get Great value with quality starters by addressing CB, RB, DT, WR, OG and FS all in the first 3 rounds.
Brandon Ghee, Mardy Gilyard, Linval Joseph, Brandon Tate, Jon Asamogha, Major Wright?
Here's a scenario. Our top players are off the board, Texans trade down with Arizona for their 2nd + 3rd round picks. Arizona selects Sean Weatherspoon (the next Demeco Ryans).
At #26, Taylor Mays is still available. Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders come calling, offer us their 2nd + 3rd round picks in exchange for Mays and our 4th rounder.
We now have THREE 2nd round picks and THREE 3rd round picks. First pick becomes #39 overall, 7th in the 2nd round. Can get Great value with quality starters by addressing CB, RB, DT, WR, OG and FS all in the first 3 rounds.
Brandon Ghee, Mardy Gilyard, Linval Joseph, Brandon Tate, Jon Asamogha, Major Wright?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
It's official. He's a Raider now. 
Honestly though with all of the problems that I read about him from last season in coverage I'm not sure he'd be worth a first rounder at all. As great as he looked at times as a Junior, his Senior season was rather unimpressive.
Honestly though with all of the problems that I read about him from last season in coverage I'm not sure he'd be worth a first rounder at all. As great as he looked at times as a Junior, his Senior season was rather unimpressive.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
If Mays is there at #20, we may pick him up. It will be very difficult to pass him up. Don't you think? But it's so funny that I can actually see Al doing that tho.
Mailman
Pwned by Hakeem
After he just blew up the combine, I doubt the Raiders pass on him at #8. He definitely won't be there at 26.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
It's official. He's a Raider now.
Honestly though with all of the problems that I read about him from last season in coverage I'm not sure he'd be worth a first rounder at all. As great as he looked at times as a Junior, his Senior season was rather unimpressive.
I agree with you on his Junior year and Senior year productivity. However, we need to understand that all those great 3 LBs left in 2008 and D is not the same quality wise in 2009 and need to take that as a consideration to evaluate. Also, people tend to remember amazing play as their stardard of plays and anything else is subpar performance. Like when you playing golf, you expect yourself to hit more than 300yds everytime however, only happens 1 out of 10 drives.
Section516
Warrior
4.43 offical time. Whoops NFL network!
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Al is back on his chair now.
It's official. He's a Raider now.
Honestly though with all of the problems that I read about him from last season in coverage I'm not sure he'd be worth a first rounder at all. As great as he looked at times as a Junior, his Senior season was rather unimpressive.
He is the true definition of a non-playmaker. He doesn't have the nose for the ball some guys have. He looked average without three 1st round LB'ers in front of him. (Maluga went 2nd, but he is a 1st round talent)
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Yeah, that's all I read about him this year. He was compared to Roy Williams a number of times actually. A faster version of him that hits really hard and is a freak, but just not a play maker with a nose for the ball which is what you want out of your safety. It's funny to, because I remember so many people wanting that guy last season. I was one of them as well. I couldn't believe it when he didn't come into the draft when his stock was so high either. He probably lost a ton of money now that his stock will drop.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Dude, you are WAY off on your draft pick values. Texans 20th pick overall is worth 850 by the chart, 26th is worth 700. Picks 58 and 90 are worth 320 and 140. In your scenario the Texans would only get a 3rd round pick from the Cards and that would be about even. Still worth it IMO if no one we need drops, but you're over valuing the Texans pick.
Draft Pick Value Chart
As for the Raiders portion, pick 40 and 72 are worth 500 and 230, so together right at 730, which would be a good swap for the Texans if they had pick 26.
With all the needs the Texans have, it certainly is preferable for them to trade back a few times, but only if they are picking up round 2 and 3 picks. I really hope they don't just drop a spot or two for a 6th instead of dropping back 6-10 and getting a 2nd and/or 3rd as you suggest.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Like your trades. My picks would be:
2a Ryan Mathews RB 2b Brandon Ghee CB 2c Jordan Shipley WR
3a Linval Joseph DT 3b Marshall Newhouse LG 3c JD Walton Center
4 Robert Johnson FS 5. Chris Brown RB OKla and BPA after that.
I thought last year he was a little over-rated. If we didn't have Pollard, I would love him at SS, but not as you're ball hawk.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Yep. It would be nice if someone drafted him before Earl Thomas.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Oh I boo-boo'd, I have like 6 different trade down ideas written down. We'd get Arizona's 1st and 3rd. The with another trade down (Ari's 1st) get Oakland's 2nd and 3rd. So I guess that would be two 2nds and three 3rds.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Anyone who left him out of the first round of a mock is a fool. Everybody already knew what a freak of an athlete he is so this isn't new to anyone. Just like Bruce Campbell, he looks great in shorts and mediocre on tape. But some coach somewhere is always gonna get an ego about a guy like that and think he is the guy that can fix him. In my last mock I had him going #21 and I actually thought he could possibly go a little higher.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
40 times are so overrated. Haden barely ran a sub-4.6 (4.57) and now media types are talking like he can't play CB anymore. What a joke. The funny thing is that Haden (4.57) and Donovan Warren (4.59) ran "sub-par" 40 times and their stock is dropping yet the fastest 'official' 40 time by a CB was a 4.41. It's not like every other CB is burning 4.2's out there. Game tape never lies.
As for Mays, we've all known the rap on him for a long time. He is a physical freak that has sub-par football skills. He is being hyped up as a FS, but he cannot play that position in the NFL. He doesn't have the instincts to play deep safety. He needs to be drafted as a SS. If a team drafted him high as a SS then I would say great pick. If someone drafts him in at the top of the 1st as a FS they are just stupid.
As for Mays, we've all known the rap on him for a long time. He is a physical freak that has sub-par football skills. He is being hyped up as a FS, but he cannot play that position in the NFL. He doesn't have the instincts to play deep safety. He needs to be drafted as a SS. If a team drafted him high as a SS then I would say great pick. If someone drafts him in at the top of the 1st as a FS they are just stupid.
Of course Haden can still play CB, but his chances of being drafted in the top 10 to do so just took a serious dip. When the adjustment for official time comes out, he's probably not even sub 4.6. That's an argument "not to take" a CB in the top 10.
I agree. I am afraid that we may over reach on a CB and pass up a guy like ET. CB is a huge need, but you have to be a little smart about it. ET would instantly be the best CB on our team, let alone the best FS we have ever had. I would really like our worst case senario to be we sign Sharper and let Thomas play CB for a year or so.
HuttoKarl
Veteran
Earl's 4.4 40 and 21 reps is looking good so far. I truly hope he lands on our team...he's got football smarts, which we could definitely use in the secondary. Versatility is nice too.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Which is stupid. Everyone has seen his film. Everyone considered him a top 10 pick and the consensus #1 CB before he ran the 40 and now because he ran a "bad" time he's suddenly not worth that pick? No, I don't think so. I don't care how fast or slow he runs the forty-yard dash, the kid can play CB and I would still draft him in the top 10 regardless. The 40 has nothing to do with a kid's ability to play the position. Scouts saying otherwise is just their way of trying to over-evaluate the draft process.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Might warrant a trade up for him if the unthinkable happens...
The opposite argument is that the PRO game is always faster than the college game and that his "college speed" won't hold up against the faster WRs in the NFL. It doesn't matter how great your coverage skills are if you can't cover a guy on a fly route without over-the-top help every time.
- I'm not saying that this IS the case with Haden, but don't be surprised to see him fall out of the 1st round now.
I was with you, until you said he could fall out of the first. No way in hell that happens. If Haden is there at 20 the Texans better be running to that podium. Combine times are important. Speed, strength, etc are important to measure. Where people get into trouble is they overvalue the combine. They use it to make the board, not edit the board.
bah007
Hall of Fame
DeAngelo Hall runs one of the fastest 40 times in the NFL. How often does he get beat deep?
A guy with good speed and great instincts will always be better than a guy with great speed and no instincts...even against fly routes.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
That 40 was moved to a 4.43 officially and he will still be late 1st. Most having him going to Dallas, GB or Philly. All teams needing safety bad. This was reported in the ESPN Insider too
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Bill Polian says 4.5 is the cutoff for a cb. If one of the greatest talent evaluaters ever says he wouldn't draft a 4.55 corner, i dont think the texans should either. I know game speed is different, but if at his pro day he runs a 4.3, then they have this formula they use and investigate the conditions, speaking of hayden.
Back to mays, he might can make the transition like thomas davis did and play will backer, but i would rather take witherspoon in that spot and get chad jones in the 2nd rd. Really, i think witherspoon is going to be one of the best players of the draft regardless of position..
Back to mays, he might can make the transition like thomas davis did and play will backer, but i would rather take witherspoon in that spot and get chad jones in the 2nd rd. Really, i think witherspoon is going to be one of the best players of the draft regardless of position..
stingray
Hall of Fame
I don't think Earl ran a 4.4 oficially. I might be wrong but I think they gave him in the 4.5's officially.
HuttoKarl
Veteran
I saw 4.44 on footballsfuture.com. Didn't see any official time (they don't actually keep an official time...scouts keep their own).
stingray
Hall of Fame
They don't have Earl in the top three and the third best is a 4.48.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers
painekiller
All Pro
Sorry to burst this bubble but the Raiders do not have a 3rd round pick this year, they traded it to New England.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Remember the system where Mays played in at USC. Most plays they run a single safety deep so he wasn't involved in a lot of short to mid coverages which is where a lot of college passing attacks target.
I liked Mays last year and soured on him a little after seeing some so-so performances on the field, but with the way he ran and his size and his killer instinct, you gotta love the guy's potential. I know potential is a bad word around here, trust me, but he has it in spades.
I would be happy if we got either Thomas or Mays myself. that DTackle Dan Williams from the other UT would be a nice fit too. We are going to get a good player at #20, this is a pretty deep draft especially at our positions of need (DT, FS, RB).
My dream draft would be
1st FS (mays or thomas)
2nd Center
3rd DTackle
4th Guard
5th Guard
6th BPA
7th BPA
of course that leaves RB out of the picture, but I hope we take a long look at some of these veterans out there. i think LT, Sproles, or Jones would give us some help with our running game. Slaton needs to be a 3rd down back, which is what he was to begin with. I know I may be in the strong minority here, but I think LT makes some sense especially with his ability to catch passes out of the backfield. Its risky, but I love the move.
*that being said, I liked the Ahman Green signing so take that for what its worth*
I liked Mays last year and soured on him a little after seeing some so-so performances on the field, but with the way he ran and his size and his killer instinct, you gotta love the guy's potential. I know potential is a bad word around here, trust me, but he has it in spades.
I would be happy if we got either Thomas or Mays myself. that DTackle Dan Williams from the other UT would be a nice fit too. We are going to get a good player at #20, this is a pretty deep draft especially at our positions of need (DT, FS, RB).
My dream draft would be
1st FS (mays or thomas)
2nd Center
3rd DTackle
4th Guard
5th Guard
6th BPA
7th BPA
of course that leaves RB out of the picture, but I hope we take a long look at some of these veterans out there. i think LT, Sproles, or Jones would give us some help with our running game. Slaton needs to be a 3rd down back, which is what he was to begin with. I know I may be in the strong minority here, but I think LT makes some sense especially with his ability to catch passes out of the backfield. Its risky, but I love the move.
*that being said, I liked the Ahman Green signing so take that for what its worth*
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Good point/take per usual. I am not a Spoon fan as a player, let alone for the Texans. However, I am with you on Jones.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
I think some of the talking on Mays is over-analysis and a lack of recognition of what he was asked to do for USC. It's sort of like how fans tend to like draft prospects better than established players-familiarity breeds contempt.
Also, here's an interesting screen shot from NFL Network which is food for thought:
Just sayin.
Also, here's an interesting screen shot from NFL Network which is food for thought:
Just sayin.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
I think some of the talking on Mays is over-analysis and a lack of recognition of what he was asked to do for USC. It's sort of like how fans tend to like draft prospects better than established players-familiarity breeds contempt.
Also, here's an interesting screen shot from NFL Network which is food for thought:
Just sayin.
Rather than saying, can you elaborate on exactly what is being depicted? :-)
I have been on the road for what seems forever and not as plugged in to the combine.
The 40s are being superimposed upon each other and the implication is Mays ran a time faster than Bests 4.35 instead of the 4.43 the Combine people say he ran. Looks like we got a Taylor Mays/USC booster on the Board ?
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
The original time given for Taylor Mays was 4.24. Then some people tweeted that scouts had him at 4.30. The "official" NFL network time is 4.43.
The difference between the first time and the official time is huge. Or like Chris Johnson tweeted...like Stevie Wonder doing the timing.
The NFL network does this overlay thing where they show stride for stride how different players do activities, like running. So you can see their relative acceleration. This is the screen shot of a finish for a number of the fastest players.
The Rich Eisen one they have over at NFL.com is hilarious. He ran the 40 again and the way they directed it was very funny--tho the slo mo was a brutality.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
No, not a booster. I just think that a lot of the reps that players get during the combine become exaggerated caricatures based on "what people are saying." There becomes a group think that becomes the new reality.
The 40 is generally overrated for most positions, but not for corner-backs.
A first-rate shut-down corner had better be able to run stride for stride
down the sideline in a dead sprint when an Andre Johnson runs a fly-pattern and if he can't then a fast WY like Johnson gets seperation and the corner needs help over the top from a safety. And shut-down corners don't need safety help.
They don't use top 10 picks on anything but first-rate corners so Haden can't expect to be drafted that high if he can't even break 4.6. No way he gets
drafted anywhere in the top half of the first round if even in the top round at all.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Scott Wright had him in the high 4.2s . This after going back and timing the replay to verify it .
This is a tough one for me because I might bite if Earl Thomas is gone . Why ... cause a big safety ( if he was a sure tackler ) to lay the lumber to the running QBs in our division plus CJ and MJD would be nice . If he could harrass Dallas Clark , that would be a bonus . A guy with this type of size/speed is rare . Besides if he can't cover we can move him to OLB or RB ... right .
beerlover
Hall of Fame
I could see the attraction of taking another elite USC prospect. The last one seemed to turn out so well its tempting, but in Mays case it all comes down to his game tape, that was also exposed in simple drills he did not excell in, no doubt his athletic measureables are fantastic. He seemed more complete his junior year maybe his on field success was attributable to one of his teammates who left for the NFL? Cushing could probably shed some light on this subject, how much did he rely on help with assignments, just how much direction does he need?
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
I took him my first mock when Thomas was gone. And who knows, maybe if Thomas played for four years people would be nitpicking his game.