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Takeaways from the Saints game.

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
We really could use Clowny about now. As a fan it sucks that some personality conflict made us lose Clowny. I get that we probably could not have kept him long term but by all accounts before the relationship really soured Clowny was going to play for us this year on the tag. We had the money. If only our head coach could put his personal feelings aside and really do "what is best for the team".
I am not backing BOB, but I think what happened was:
- We needed to protect DW4 ASAP, and the guys here were not ready for 2019
- They worked Miami to get a rd1, Clowney and RD2 for Tunsil. I looked at the math, and you cannot pay everyone so for 2019 you could have them both, but not beyond
- Clowney had to agree, he blocked it, did not want to go to that dumpster fire
- Now he would not play and forced hand to trade to Eagles/Seattle
- We did him right and made it happen, he wins for sure
- We added another pick to get Tunsil

So after they did not get a deal, nor any bites before July 15, they tucked their tail and got on with it as Clowney likely only comes in then after week 8 or so.

This is what I am sensing from all the public articles, only a couple of people know the whole story
 

mws

Waterboy
I am not backing BOB, but I think what happened was:
- We needed to protect DW4 ASAP, and the guys here were not ready for 2019
- They worked Miami to get a rd1, Clowney and RD2 for Tunsil. I looked at the math, and you cannot pay everyone so for 2019 you could have them both, but not beyond
- Clowney had to agree, he blocked it, did not want to go to that dumpster fire
- Now he would not play and forced hand to trade to Eagles/Seattle
- We did him right and made it happen, he wins for sure
- We added another pick to get Tunsil

So after they did not get a deal, nor any bites before July 15, they tucked their tail and got on with it as Clowney likely only comes in then after week 8 or so.

This is what I am sensing from all the public articles, only a couple of people know the whole story
That all sounds reasonable. My deal is that after Clowny said no to Miami, if O'Brian could have swallowed his pride they could have signed a no trade clause to get him this year. Now maybe they tried and Clowny outright refused to play for the Texans. If so that is a different story.

To me it seems that O'Brian wanted him gone bad enough that he was willing to pay a big chunk of his salary just to get 2 so so players. This is especially true if they would have gotten a third round compensatory pick if he left.
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
Merci had a stat line with a pick, sack, 4 solo tackles, 1.5 tfl, qb pressure etc. Not sure Clowney would have balled out more than that his first week back so all this we would have won with Clowney stuff is speculation to me. Yes, we are better with Clowney, but he would have somewhere had his 1-2 stupid plays. Also, after he blocked the Miami trade, he was not coming in, my humble OPINION
If we'd had Clowney, Brees would have drawn him offside, advancing 5 yards and stopping the clock.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
When Weiss was the oc in NE and they faced certain pass rushes, he would roll the pocket. It's a great way to get the qb away from the rush and reset the pocket. Also, they could've run the ball more. Hyde and Johnson looked good especially on the road.
 
That all sounds reasonable. My deal is that after Clowny said no to Miami, if O'Brian could have swallowed his pride they could have signed a no trade clause to get him this year. Now maybe they tried and Clowny outright refused to play for the Texans. If so that is a different story.

To me it seems that O'Brian wanted him gone bad enough that he was willing to pay a big chunk of his salary just to get 2 so so players. This is especially true if they would have gotten a third round compensatory pick if he left.
No trade clauses are horrible for teams that have a lot invested in a player. Seattle could afford to do it because they got Clowney for cheap so if he walks on them hey they got a year out of him. You see no trade clause a lot in MLB and it can really screw up a deal that you have worked months on. Go look at the story of Verlander coming here and now try and translate that to the NFL.

Pride had nothing to do with that, signing Clowney to a no trade would have been even dumber than trading him for what we did.
 

mws

Waterboy
No trade clauses are horrible for teams that have a lot invested in a player. Seattle could afford to do it because they got Clowney for cheap so if he walks on them hey they got a year out of him. You see no trade clause a lot in MLB and it can really screw up a deal that you have worked months on. Go look at the story of Verlander coming here and now try and translate that to the NFL.

Pride had nothing to do with that, signing Clowney to a no trade would have been even dumber than trading him for what we did.
I'm curious how it could be worse. We are only talking one year here. We would pay him and he would play. Then next year when he left we would probably get a third round compensatory draft choice which is what Seattle gave us. And we would have a much better defensive line.

Instead we are spending 7 million just so he can play somewhere else and getting minimum pressure up front.

I don't know how much Barkevious Mingo & Jacob Martin are making but I wonder between their salaries & the 7 million we are giving the Seahawks how much money we are really saving.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
No trade clauses are horrible for teams that have a lot invested in a player. Seattle could afford to do it because they got Clowney for cheap so if he walks on them hey they got a year out of him. You see no trade clause a lot in MLB and it can really screw up a deal that you have worked months on. Go look at the story of Verlander coming here and now try and translate that to the NFL.

Pride had nothing to do with that, signing Clowney to a no trade would have been even dumber than trading him for what we did.
The Texans didn't have a lot invested in him. Only one year.
 
I'm curious how it could be worse. We are only talking one year here. We would pay him and he would play. Then next year when he left we would probably get a third round compensatory draft choice which is what Seattle gave us. And we would have a much better defensive line.

Instead we are spending 7 million just so he can play somewhere else and getting minimum pressure up front.

I don't know how much Barkevious Mingo & Jacob Martin are making but I wonder between their salaries & the 7 million we are giving the Seahawks how much money we are really saving.
Clowney only had as much power as the Texans were willing to give him. If we tag him he has two choices, play on the tag or don’t play and lose out on a lot of money and, maybe, put a bad taste in other teams mouths.

I don’t really know why they traded him, heard every theory from a BoB throwing a fit to them trying to do right by a Clowney by sending him where he wanted, but I would have tagged his ass and made him choose.

If you give him a no trade clause though then you really have tied your hands and given him real power. Also I’m sure some on here better understand how compensatory picks work but for me there doesn’t seem to be much rhyme or reason and it’s a lot of voodoo math so I wouldn’t trust it.
 

mws

Waterboy
I saw Clowney's interview when he arrived in Seattle. One reporter asked him about wanting to get traded & Clowny flat out said it wasn't him that wanted to get traded. That it was the Texans that wanted it. He only said "if you are going to trade me this is where I want to go". Now I know that he could be blowing smoke but it fits with the way O'Brian has alienated other players.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I saw Clowney's interview when he arrived in Seattle. One reporter asked him about wanting to get traded & Clowny flat out said it wasn't him that wanted to get traded. That it was the Texans that wanted it. He only said "if you are going to trade me this is where I want to go". Now I know that he could be blowing smoke but it fits with the way O'Brian has alienated other players.
Yes this is what was being reported the entire time. He wanted to play on the tag here but didn't sign it when he found out they would trade him to Miami.
 

Mangler

Veteran
Although I agree that Colvin screwed the pooch on the very last play that should have sealed an incredible win for the Texans, I can’t help but still blame Crennel for such a poor showing of defense last night. So many missed tackles, Kamara running all over the 2nd level to the point of having the entire secondary looking like a bunch of special ed kids.

Colvin was probably THE worse player on that defense, but he wasn’t the only one missing tackles. Our defense looked terrible as a whole. Hats off to Bmac and Merci though! Romeo better turn this sh1t around!
 

mws

Waterboy
It goes a lot deeper than just the last 37 seconds. The Saints ran over us in the second half. Our defense only came up with one stop.

Saints 6 drives in the second half:

1. Touchdown
2. Touchdown
3. Touchdown
4. Punt
5. Field goal
6. Field goal
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
It goes a lot deeper than just the last 37 seconds. The Saints ran over us in the second half. Our defense only came up with one stop.


Saints 6 drives in the second half:

1. Touchdown
2. Touchdown
3. Touchdown
4. Punt
5. Field goal
6. Field goal
Sux don't it?
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Colvin acted like he thought Ginn was going deep .
& he might have had Colvin played it differently.

So there's 3 defenders you can't even see on the screen when the ball is snapped. Let's say Colvin plays it differently, Ginn gets behind him & our safeties tackle Ginn at the 35. Or Ginn catches the ball, gives himself up at the 35 & calls a timeout.

Now Lutz is kicking a 52 yard FG instead of a 58.

I mean we can assume Colvin wasn't going to stop Ginn from catching that ball right?

Brees had a perfect passer rating against him.
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
& he might have had Colvin played it differently.

So there's 3 defenders you can't even see on the screen when the ball is snapped. Let's say Colvin plays it differently, Ginn gets behind him & our safeties tackle Ginn at the 35. Or Ginn catches the ball, gives himself up at the 35 & calls a timeout.

Now Lutz is kicking a 52 yard FG instead of a 58.

I mean we can assume Colvin wasn't going to stop Ginn from catching that ball right?

Brees had a perfect passer rating against him.
If Thorn was lined up against Colvin in that situation , Brees is going to Thorn .
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
& he might have had Colvin played it differently.

So there's 3 defenders you can't even see on the screen when the ball is snapped. Let's say Colvin plays it differently, Ginn gets behind him & our safeties tackle Ginn at the 35. Or Ginn catches the ball, gives himself up at the 35 & calls a timeout.

Now Lutz is kicking a 52 yard FG instead of a 58.

I mean we can assume Colvin wasn't going to stop Ginn from catching that ball right?

Brees had a perfect passer rating against him.
They had 2 seconds left as it was. They couldn't have gotten it much further downfield than the 9 yards they got without running out of time.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Secondary looked horrible in the 2nd half. Doesn't help when there's little to no pass rush. OLine wasn't good though Tunsil did great. The sack he gave up was a missed offsides penalty.
IIRC, the Texans went mostly to zone in the 2nd half and Brees is notorious for carving up zone defenses.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
& he might have had Colvin played it differently.

So there's 3 defenders you can't even see on the screen when the ball is snapped. Let's say Colvin plays it differently, Ginn gets behind him & our safeties tackle Ginn at the 35. Or Ginn catches the ball, gives himself up at the 35 & calls a timeout.

Now Lutz is kicking a 52 yard FG instead of a 58.

I mean we can assume Colvin wasn't going to stop Ginn from catching that ball right?

Brees had a perfect passer rating against him.
Saints had a TO & with the way we were tackling, i wouldn't have felt all that great about letting Ginn get behind Colvin to the safeties either. There was really only 4 viable options in that scenario...2 of which required pressure on Brees..... which you weren't going to get only rushing 2. The other was for the CB's to challenge everything short & force Brees to throw it longer & hope that it was either intercepted, took too long to develop & they run out of time or it was incomplete.

Colvin screwed the pooch with his technique from the jump & he was easy pickings, but if you look at that play develop, Brees with his accuracy could've went to any 1 of his recievers and gotten that completion. All but Cook the TE ran to about the same depth & were open.
 

Dutchrudder

King of the Potato People
IIRC, the Texans went mostly to zone in the 2nd half and Brees is notorious for carving up zone defenses.
Yup, zone defense generally work best when the QB is under pressure and has to make lots of panic induced throws. We weren't getting pressure most of the night, so Brees was able to sit back, watch routes develop, and choose his targets wisely. The one INT they had was on a bad throw by Brees while he was getting chased out of the pocket. We need more pressure to make the QB uncomfortable, and then maybe you'll see some bad passes thrown to our D waiting to capitalize on the opportunity.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Colvin screwed the pooch with his technique from the jump & he was easy pickings, but if you look at that play develop, Brees with his accuracy could've went to any 1 of his recievers and gotten that completion. All but Cook the TE ran to about the same depth & were open.
I agree & disagree with that statement.

A QB with Brees' accuracy basically makes any receiver open that has single coverage. That's what makes them great. They don't necessarily have to wait for the receiver to get open.

With that being said, I think all of the DBs (except Colvin) did their job well. They were in position to make a play in case the ball wasn't as accurate as Brees intended, or at least distract the receiver enough to make the catch tough. But since Colvin had such poor positioning, he made things extremely easy for Brees & the receiver. From Brees' pre-snap read, he already saw how deep Colvin was playing, so that instantly made him his first option. Then when the receiver made his break, Colvin was nowhere in position to make a play on the ball. It was just way too easy.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
Kind of a weak pass rush, we should definitely try to add another ProBowl DE soon. Maybe we could acquire one for a 3rd round pick?
Yeah pass rush was not very effective. However, Saints have probably the best Oline in the game so we should see better results against lesser ones.
Still, another decent rusher would be nice insurance should one of our guys go down.
I wonder how Kalambayi and Omenihu are going?
 


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