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Takeaways from the Colts game.

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
That’s pretty funny because every year since 2011 I’ve heard this is the most talented team since 2011. Yet I still fail to see exactly where you all see all this tremendous talent past the top 6-8 guys in the roster.
You haven't heard this from me.

Do you disagree with the my post that broke things down and if you do tell me what you disagree with and we can have a discussion.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I understand the cap is going to go up about 20 mil after the new CBA is signed and if the contracts are structured properly there shouldn't be any cap issues. Look if losing a 2021 1st/2nd rd pick is going to ruin this franchise then they aren't managing the cap well and if the past is any indicator the Texans handle the cap well.
The contract system is more complicated and not as simplified as you are making it. A lot more gets spread out than just bonus money.

Russell Wilson only accounts for 26m to the cap this year for Seattle. His cash payout was 70m. Total contract value is 140m. Annual contract value is 35m. His largest cap hit will be in 2023 for 39m.

With the amount of money we are going to have we should be able to make it work.

https://overthecap.com/player/russell-wilson/1569/
See my above comments on Wilson’s contract and the effect on Seattle’s cap.

If we have 90m to spend, we should be able to sign the core group we need to.

This cap thing is over blown in my opinion.
 

KarlK

Waterboy
Care to tell me where they were more talented?

QB DW4. Schaub and Schaub was the handpicked QB.
RB AF > Hyde but AF was breaking down and you couldn't depend on him to play a full season.
WR- An aging AJ + Walter < Hopkins/Stills/WFV/Coutee

OL Myers > Martin although he only played 1 more season before retiring.
W.Smith> Scharping but Wade only played 2 more seasons and Scharping is going to be as good as Wade.
Tunsil= DB, or will be soon.
Brooks> Fulton
Howard> Newton.

The defense is about the same on the DL, LB's now > LB's then CB's Depends about what you think of Roby/KJax S Now > then

So tell me where all of this great talent was that was left behind? The best talent that was left behind was aging.

I think we can agree that this is the most talented team since 2011.
What does the "age" matter? Several of the guys you claimed were aging were playing at an incredibly high level in 2011. What happened after that season is irrelevant.

QB 2019 Agree
RB 2011 Agree
WR 2019 Agree
TE 2011 You didn't comment. Daniels was better than any TE on the roster right now
OL 2011

DL 2011 Pro Bowler Antonio Smith and Shaun Cody vs Angelo Blackson and DJ Reader?! Not even close. Depth, again, is far superior in 2011. ALthough I must point out 2011 is pre Watt emerging, although he had a great year.
LB 2011 Stronger starters. Deeper unit. Both are good units.
CB 2011 JJo made the pro bowl. Will anyone on this sorry unit make a probowl
S Equal

Frankly i'm not sure how you could ever say any part of this mediocre 2019 defense which right now is #22 in the NFL is comparable to the deep and talented 2011 unit, which finished in the top 5 of the NFL.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The Texans are going to be in serious financial straits and will have to make numerous unpopular decisions once they extend Watson and Tunsil. And they won’t have much draft capital to help offset that.
Lol..think its you who doesn't really understand how NFL economics or how this roster is set up to be able to absorb the loss of draft capital in the next few years. DW4's upcoming contract is a DIRECT reason for us not hitting FA hard this past offseason like everyone here wanted us to. He, Tunsil, Mercy & probably Roby will almost certainly be extended. Reader I could see leaving for a ridiculous contract elsewhere..I don't think it'll have anything to do with us not wanting him back or low balling so much as some team will just pay out the nose for his services like Honeybadger & Trent Brown.

It's really only 4 guys on the bubble: WFV, Gipson, Duke & probably JJ. All but 1 of those guys (JJ) is replaceable with the draft capital we do still have. But even in JJ's case, He's locked up past 2021 when we would be whole with our draft capital again. Doubt they'd want him back at that #, but b/c that guy is who he is from a character standpoint & b/c of how much this city has meant to him, i could easily see him restructuring to finish his career out here.

Everyone else?

easily replaceable out in FA &/or can be resigned relatively cheaply (Dunn, Cole, Hyde, Addaie)

Can be franchised for 1 year until we get whole with draft capital: (Cunningham & Reader would be prime candidates b/c the FT cap hit wouldn't be too bad for those positions)

Replacement is already on the roster (Omenihu for Watkins......L-Jo for J-Jo......Skipper for Rod Johnson.........Coutee for Stills... Martin for Scarlett.........Akins/Warring for Fells etc.)

Or is flat out locked up to or past 2021 (Nuk, Fulton, Martin, Howard, Scharping, McKinney, Akins, Reid & yes JJ)

This isn't even factoring in: the cap projecting to go up, Clowney's salary coming off the books, J-Jo likely calling it a career & his 5 mil coming off the books, some contract restructuring.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
What does the "age" matter? Several of the guys you claimed were aging were playing at an incredibly high level in 2011. What happened after that season is irrelevant.

QB 2019 Agree
RB 2011 Agree
WR 2019 Agree
TE 2011 You didn't comment. Daniels was better than any TE on the roster right now
OL 2011

DL 2011 Pro Bowler Antonio Smith and Shaun Cody vs Angelo Blackson and DJ Reader?! Not even close. Depth, again, is far superior in 2011. ALthough I must point out 2011 is pre Watt emerging, although he had a great year.
LB 2011 Stronger starters. Deeper unit. Both are good units.
CB 2011 JJo made the pro bowl. Will anyone on this sorry unit make a probowl
S Equal

Frankly i'm not sure how you could ever say any part of this mediocre 2019 defense which right now is #22 in the NFL is comparable to the deep and talented 2011 unit, which finished in the top 5 of the NFL.
TE- Agree

DL- Disagree

The DL of Reader/Watt/Blackston with depth of Charley O/Dunn is more talented than the 2011 OL you listed.

LB's are definitely better now.

OL is young and improving. The 2011 OL was on their last legs.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Lol..think its you who doesn't really understand how NFL economics or how this roster is set up to be able to absorb the loss of draft capital in the next few years. DW4's upcoming contract is a DIRECT reason for us not hitting FA hard this past offseason like everyone here wanted us to. He, Tunsil, Mercy & probably Roby will almost certainly be extended. Reader I could see leaving for a ridiculous contract elsewhere..I don't think it'll have anything to do with us not wanting him back or low balling so much as some team will just pay out the nose for his services like Honeybadger & Trent Brown.

It's really only 4 guys on the bubble: WFV, Gipson, Duke & probably JJ. All but 1 of those guys (JJ) is replaceable with the draft capital we do still have. But even in JJ's case, He's locked up past 2021 when we would be whole with our draft capital again. Doubt they'd want him back at that #, but b/c that guy is who he is from a character standpoint & b/c of how much this city has meant to him, i could easily see him restructuring to finish his career out here.

Everyone else?

easily replaceable out in FA &/or can be resigned relatively cheaply (Dunn, Cole, Hyde, Addaie)

Can be franchised for 1 year until we get whole with draft capital: (Cunningham & Reader would be prime candidates b/c the FA cap hit wouldn't be too bad for those positions)

Replacement is already on the roster (Omenihu for Watkins......L-Jo for J-Jo......Skipper for Rod Johnson.........Coutee for Stills... Martin for Scarlett.........Akins/Warring for Fells etc.)

Or is flat out locked up to or past 2021 (Nuk, Fulton, Martin, Howard, Scharping, McKinney, Akins, Reid & yes JJ)

This isn't even factoring in: the cap projecting to go up, Clowney's salary coming off the books, J-Jo likely calling it a career & his 5 mil coming off the books, some contract restructuring.
If they were so easy to replace we wouldn't have multiple holes on the roster now
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Lol..think its you who doesn't really understand how NFL economics or how this roster is set up to be able to absorb the loss of draft capital in the next few years. DW4's upcoming contract is a DIRECT reason for us not hitting FA hard this past offseason like everyone here wanted us to. He, Tunsil, Mercy & probably Roby will almost certainly be extended. Reader I could see leaving for a ridiculous contract elsewhere..I don't think it'll have anything to do with us not wanting him back or low balling so much as some team will just pay out the nose for his services like Honeybadger & Trent Brown.

It's really only 4 guys on the bubble: WFV, Gipson, Duke & probably JJ. All but 1 of those guys (JJ) is replaceable with the draft capital we do still have. But even in JJ's case, He's locked up past 2021 when we would be whole with our draft capital again. Doubt they'd want him back at that #, but b/c that guy is who he is from a character standpoint & b/c of how much this city has meant to him, i could easily see him restructuring to finish his career out here.

Everyone else?

easily replaceable out in FA &/or can be resigned relatively cheaply (Dunn, Cole, Hyde, Addaie)

Can be franchised for 1 year until we get whole with draft capital: (Cunningham & Reader would be prime candidates b/c the FA cap hit wouldn't be too bad for those positions)

Replacement is already on the roster (Omenihu for Watkins......L-Jo for J-Jo......Skipper for Rod Johnson.........Coutee for Stills... Martin for Scarlett.........Akins/Warring for Fells etc.)

Or is flat out locked up to or past 2021 (Nuk, Fulton, Martin, Howard, Scharping, McKinney, Akins, Reid & yes JJ)

This isn't even factoring in: the cap projecting to go up, Clowney's salary coming off the books, J-Jo likely calling it a career & his 5 mil coming off the books, some contract restructuring.
Apparently simple math ain't so simple.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
If they were so easy to replace we wouldn't have multiple holes on the roster now
If RS hadn't missed on so many 2-4 rd picks then there wouldn't be multiple holes on the roster.

I digress, they fixed the offense this yr.

They will fix the defense next yr.

They will have the needed experience to be contenders.

$$$$ wont be a problem.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
If RS hadn't missed on so many 2-4 rd picks then there wouldn't be multiple holes on the roster.

I digress, they fixed the offense this yr.

They will fix the defense next yr.

They will have the needed experience to be contenders.

$$$$ wont be a problem.
So then draft picks are valuable?

What year of the rebuild are we in?
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Players are valuable, whether you get them by draft or trade.

Yr 2 of 3 as I've said many times.

Please stop trolling me.

I see you didn't reply to the cap discussion part of the conversation. Probably because you dont comprehend what we're talking about.
There's only $87 million in capspace next year.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
He's just being obtuse. You can go to the same sportrac website and literally manage the roster of the texans by playing around with salaries and stuff here.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/houston-texans/

I played around with it for the 2020 year & even giving DW4 his 31-33 mil, Tunsil his 16 mil & resigning Whitney, Roby and Reader to their deals with guesstimates on my part of 12, 14 and 10 mil for all 3, we still had north of 18-20 mil left.....according to the cap figure they have us with. Pretty cool tool.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
He's just being obtuse. You can go to the same sportrac website and literally manage the roster of the texans by playing around with salaries and stuff here.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/houston-texans/

I played around with it for the 2020 year & even giving DW4 his 31-33 mil, Tunsil his 16 mil & resigning Whitney, Roby and Reader to their deals with guesstimates on my part of 12, 14 and 10 mil for all 3, we still had north of 18-20 mil left.....according to the cap figure they have us with. Pretty cool tool.
Watson will get 40. So basically just resigning the guys we have uses up all the capspace, and the team as currently constructed is mediocre
 
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TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Good players that can start? No. Good depth players, yes it is pretty easy. See:

Carlos Hyde signing
Jaleel Addai signing
Dylan Cole
Deandre Carter

basically any depth guy we have on here that contributes...those guys are plentiful
Adding more of those guys won't make them contenders. And not all those type of signings work out, see: Seantrel, kalil, Kelemente, colvin, etc
 
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KarlK

Waterboy
Watson will get 40. So basically just resigning the guys we have uses up all the capspace, and the team as currently constructed is mediocre
lol.....exactly. Nobody's interested in keeping the team as is, unless you're happy with 9-7. We are talking about making this team a Super Bowl contender. Which cannot be done when your capped out extending current players with no impact draft picks on cheap deals.

Good luck with your fantasyland 100 point plan though, Mr Tex.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Given how much Steel keeps talking about a big jump in the cap next year i decided to look it up. Didn't really see anything about that but did find an interesting report talking about how unique next year will be cap wise. Fair warning it can be a bit technical in places.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26073422/nfl-cba-quirks-a-big-effect-2020-offseason
PFT said GM's are estimating a 20 mil jump in the cap when the CBA is done.

I'm pretty sure Olson knows more about how to manipulate the cap the the KDog or KK do
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
He's just being obtuse. You can go to the same sportrac website and literally manage the roster of the texans by playing around with salaries and stuff here.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/houston-texans/

I played around with it for the 2020 year & even giving DW4 his 31-33 mil, Tunsil his 16 mil & resigning Whitney, Roby and Reader to their deals with guesstimates on my part of 12, 14 and 10 mil for all 3, we still had north of 18-20 mil left.....according to the cap figure they have us with. Pretty cool tool.
Watson will get 40. So basically just resigning the guys we have uses up all the capspace, and the team as currently constructed is mediocre
That’s not what he said. If Watson gets 40 there will still be cap room using his numbers. He said we will have 20 left, and you said Watson will get 10 more than what he quoted. That means there is left over money.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
That’s not what he said. If Watson gets 40 there will still be cap room using his numbers. He said we will have 20 left, and you said Watson will get 10 more than what he quoted. That means there is left over money.
They need to leave money for the draft and any extra needs in free agency
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
our injuries are mounting are secondary is getting younger and not by of our own will

i was thinking cool roby and J joe are out maybe anyone younger might be a upgrade ...but i guess time will tell in the raiders and jags games

also seeing Andre and Cushing on the sidelines anymore injuries maybe they could suit up again LOL
It was really cool to see AJ on the sideline, and his title is "Special Adviser to the Head Coach". I guess he and O'Brien are not at odds with each other as folks had assumed. :friends:
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Watson will get 40. So basically just resigning the guys we have uses up all the capspace, and the team as currently constructed is mediocre
Mahomes isn't even projected to get 40 right now & he's got an MVP already....... but whatever..... You're jumping thru hoops trying to prove something that you don't really have a clue about. In any case, even if Watson somehow does gets 40, there will still be money left over.......I only used the tool to see if it were possible for us to resign all the guys, In all liklihood it probably won't happen...Someone's bound to leave..Nevertheless the big money will be in the right places: QB, LT, CB and pass rush.

But whatever, Im more than willing to let you continue to drum up trash arguments and catch L's :ok:.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Mahomes isn't even projected to get 40 right now & he's got an MVP already....... but whatever..... You're jumping thru hoops trying to prove something that you don't really have a clue about. In any case, even if Watson somehow does gets 40, there will still be money left over.......I only used the tool to see if it were possible for us to resign all the guys, In all liklihood it probably won't happen...Someone's bound to leave..Nevertheless the big money will be in the right places: QB, LT, CB and pass rush.

But whatever, Im more than willing to let you continue to drum up trash arguments and catch L's :ok:.

"He is expected at some point during the offseason to get a new deal done with the Chiefs that I would think, just guessing, is going to be a deal in excess of $200 million over the course of that contract," Schefter said. "So let's just say five years, $40-plus million per year, $200-plus million."


https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/nfl-rumors-heres-how-big-patrick-mahomes-contract-extension-could-be-offseason


And if someone like reader leaves, that means the team gets worse
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
"He is expected at some point during the offseason to get a new deal done with the Chiefs that I would think, just guessing, is going to be a deal in excess of $200 million over the course of that contract," Schefter said. "So let's just say five years, $40-plus million per year, $200-plus million."


https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/nfl-rumors-heres-how-big-patrick-mahomes-contract-extension-could-be-offseason


And if someone like reader leaves, that means the team gets worse


Sportrac has his market value at 37.1..https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/patrick-mahomes-21751/market-value/

Unless DW4 leads us to the SB this year, he'll be under whatever he gets...point is, its extremely unlikely DW4 gets 40...Unless Jerry Jones does the unthinkable & gives Dak that between now and next year.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
That was with clowney and Matthieu

They are 4-3 and were embarrassed in the playoffs even with those guys
Yeah, they're 4-3...most of the negative nellies like you thought they'd be 2-5 with our "tough schedule".

& Lol, don't cite Clowney...he's and his 1 sack for the season are hemorraghing millions in SEA right now. Mathhieu as predicted isn't making much of an impact over in KC either...Its very clearly looking like those guys were not these great impact players you and the rest of the league thought they were. Most here knew it...apparently, some here didn't.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Yeah, they're 4-3...most of the negative nellies like you thought they'd be 2-5 with our "tough schedule".

& Lol, don't cite Clowney...he's and his 1 sack for the season are hemorraghing millions in SEA right now. Mathhieu as predicted isn't making much of an impact over in KC either...Its very clearly looking like those guys were not these great impact players you and the rest of the league thought they were. Most here knew it...apparently, some here didn't.
So then why is the defense so much worse?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Adding more of those guys won't make them contenders. And not all those type of signings work out, see: Seantrel, kalil, Kelemente, colvin, etc
But you know what does? Continuity. Having the same guys back in the locker room, having had experience and working together goes a long way.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
So then why is the defense so much worse?
B/c the schedule is tougher with better qbs than last year genius. Here are the pretty good Qb's we've already played this year:

Brees
Rivers
Mahomes
Ryan
Brissett has also shown that he isn't a slouch either.



Here are the total # of qb's we played of that caliber all of last season total

Luck
Brady
Foles




I Expect the defense to improve late in the season this year...We still have Brady, Jackson & 1 more go with Brissett The rest are garbo
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
B/c the schedule is tougher with better qbs than last year genius. Here are the pretty good Qb's we've already played this year:

Brees
Rivers
Mahomes
Ryan
Brissett has also shown that he isn't a slouch either.



Here are the total # of qb's we played of that caliber all of last season total

Luck
Brady
Foles




I Expect the defense to improve late in the season this year...We still have Brady, Jackson & 1 more go with Brissett The rest are garbo
Even controlling for that, the defense is worse.

-getting less pressure
-worse against the run
-terrible secondary
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I think the Texans will have a hard time convincing Watson (or the fans) that he should be paid less than mahomes
Fans have **** to do with it..They'll just want their guy back. Like i said, unless he takes us to the SB and/or gets his MVP this year, the market will be set.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Fans have **** to do with it..They'll just want their guy back. Like i said, unless he takes us to the SB and/or gets his MVP this year, the market will be set.
I think it is set. Many view them as the two best young QBs in the game and they'll be paid similarly
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Even controlling for that, the defense is worse.

-getting less pressure
-worse against the run
-terrible secondary

Stop it please you're embarrasing yourself. They aren't any worse against the run than they were last year around this time. Barkley came in here last year & pretty much did what he wanted to do in the run game & we couldn't stop Henry when it mattered in the 1st Tenn game.

The pressure may be a down a little & the secondary may look worse.but again, the qb's they've faced this year vs. last year may have a little something to do with that....Last year, they let a terrible Eli Manning come in here and beat them.....and Blaine Freakin Gabbert. Brady also cut them up pretty good too in the opener.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I think it is set. Many view them as the two best young QBs in the game and they'll be paid similarly
Still doesn't matter. Mahomes already has the skins on the wall & he will.....& should be paid more than DW4. 37.1 mil & say 34.5 mil is being paid similarly.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
I think the Texans will have a hard time convincing Watson (or the fans) that he should be paid less than mahomes
if he wants a team around him, he may park his ego. I retired early and am comfortable (not like him), and in reality, his life will not be different at $30m or $40m, nor generations of his family. So this is what he and his agent make it
 


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