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Takeaways from the Chiefs game.

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame

TheMatrix31

Hall of Fame
Read an article on the Ringer site. Pointed out all the misfires and points left on the field the Texans had today.

I was/am so caught up in the big win hadn’t thought how far from a perfect game it was.
But we're so thirsty after six years for ANYTHING to latch onto, we end up looking over it.

It was absolutely not a perfect game. Filled with penalties, missed kicks, drops, etc that would slaughter us in a game of real importance. But it was so far better than practically 90% of the performances we've seen from this loser in all this time with him that we're just happy to see even what we saw.
 

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
I keep thinking about that flag on the mahomes pick. What a screwing. So kelce was pulled down and mahomes threw it where he was suppose to be. Gibson just has to make a fair catch lol. They call it holding before ball was thrown but he was the target. What a crappy rule.

Refs were a mess today. I'm not sticking up for chiefs but what a stupid rule.

And this whole challenge an offensive PI. We saw a blatant pick. Why even have the rule.

Amazing........
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Read an article on the Ringer site. Pointed out all the misfires and points left on the field the Texans had today.

I was/am so caught up in the big win hadn’t thought how far from a perfect game it was.
For me that's what makes it so exciting since we had a significant solid win with lots of room to get better and we can. Another concern for me is depth as our starters go down
 

Max

Veteran
If we keep up this offensive game plan, we're going to beat most of the teams we play. The next challenge will be moving the ball against a team with a good run defense. The only 'multiple' that should be on BOB's radar should be pass to get the run game going VS run to get the pass game going. We've learned (hopefully) that we can beat teams by running to set up the short pass and once in this rhythm, look down field. We're hard to stop when in that rhythm. When we play the team that has us in 2nd and 10, that rhythm is going to get broken up. When I see BOB recognize how to beat that team with a pass first offense, I'll be optimistic that we can beat anyone on any given day. Great win. We're talented enough to win it all this year.
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
I keep thinking about that flag on the mahomes pick. What a screwing. So kelce was pulled down and mahomes threw it where he was suppose to be. Gibson just has to make a fair catch lol. They call it holding before ball was thrown but he was the target. What a crappy rule.
But the thing with Kelce is that if a DB plays up close, Kelce initiates the contact on purpose and tries to maintain the contact as far downfield as possible, intentionally trying to draw a flag. Watch that play. Kelce was holding Johnson more than Johnson was holding Kelce. Then Kelce flopped at the end trying to make it look like the DB threw him to the ground. Glad that at least one ref wasn't having any of that BS and they over-ruled the call.

Besides that, Kelce is just a big crybaby puzz. And big crybaby puzzes don't deserve crap.

 

ROO

Fire somebody...
And here is the rhetoric from crybaby Kelce and Mahomes...

But tight end Travis Kelce, whom quarterback Patrick Mahomes insists was the intended receiver, was the player held on the play. Kelce was supposed to fake an out route before running a fly but was impeded before he could get there, Mahomes, Kelce and Andy Reid argued afterward.

“The play was designed where Kelce was
doing a double move, and I was letting him work it, knowing it was man coverage,” Mahomes said, via Sam McDowell of the Kansas City Star.

That's bullcrap.
 

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
But the thing with Kelce is that if a DB plays up close, Kelce initiates the contact on purpose and tries to maintain the contact as far downfield as possible, intentionally trying to draw a flag. Watch that play. Kelce was holding Johnson more than Johnson was holding Kelce. Then Kelce flopped at the end trying to make it look like the DB threw him to the ground. Glad that at least one ref wasn't having any of that BS and they over-ruled the call.

Besides that, Kelce is just a big crybaby puzz. And big crybaby puzzes don't deserve crap.

Yeah I see it both ways, but to pick that flag up given everything we see is mind boggling. As for the cry baby stuff, it is what it is. They all do it.
 

mws

Waterboy
And here is the rhetoric from crybaby Kelce and Mahomes...

But tight end Travis Kelce, whom quarterback Patrick Mahomes insists was the intended receiver, was the player held on the play. Kelce was supposed to fake an out route before running a fly but was impeded before he could get there, Mahomes, Kelce and Andy Reid argued afterward.

“The play was designed where Kelce was
doing a double move, and I was letting him work it, knowing it was man coverage,” Mahomes said, via Sam McDowell of the Kansas City Star.

That's bullcrap.
I could be wrong but this is the way I understood the explanation during the game.

If there was a foul it occured before the ball was in the air. That makes it defensive holding which cannot be reviewed or overturned. All they could do is look for PI which did not occur.
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
I could be wrong but this is the way I understood the explanation during the game.

If there was a foul it occured before the ball was in the air. That makes it defensive holding which cannot be reviewed or overturned. All they could do is look for PI which did not occur.
I think the refs could have decided that it was holding instead of PI. I really thought that would happen. About time something went the way of the Texans.
 

mws

Waterboy
I think the refs could have decided that it was holding instead of PI. I really thought that would happen. About time something went the way of the Texans.
As far as I know any type of holding is a non reviewable play. They can't add offensive or defensive holding from a review. Whatever is called on the field is the way it is.

Pass interference is a whole different matter. It is reviewable and can be overturned or added after review.

So from the officials standpoint it was either pass interference or nothing.
 
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ROO

Fire somebody...
As far as I know any type of holding is a non reviewable play. They can't add offensive or defensive holding from a review. Whatever is called on the field is the way it is.

Pass interference is a whole different matter. It is reviewable and can be overturned or added after review.
I'm pretty sure that the refs can do what they want on the field between themselves. That PI call was not a booth review as far as I know. The refs themselves huddled up and discussed it on the field. "Review" pertains to looking at the replay. I don't think they did that, but I could be wrong. For it to have been "reviewed," OB would have had to challenge it with the red flag.

The refs quite often get together and change a decision or pick up a flag and say "there was no penalty on the play." Review rules have no bearing.

 

Scooter

Funky
The call was "DEFENSIVE HOLDING", however it occurred after the ball was thrown and the player being held was not part of the play. Defensive holding can only occur before the pass is thrown. Pass Interference can only occur to the target while the ball is in the air. The flag was for holding, after the ball was thrown, and to a player deemed not the target ... null.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with any of it, but Kelce seems keen on taking dives, so I'm ok with taking a call.

Edit: and seeing the KC quotes ... no. Had Kelce run directly to the endzone with no one else on the field he isn't going to catch the ball. Certainly wasn't going to catch it with his hands on a DB as the ball floats 30yds away.
 
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mws

Waterboy
I'm pretty sure that the refs can do what they want on the field between themselves. That PI call was not a booth review as far as I know. The refs themselves huddled up and discussed it on the field. "Review" pertains to looking at the replay. I don't think they did that, but I could be wrong. For it to have been "reviewed," OB would have had to challenge it with the red flag.

The refs quite often get together and change a decision or pick up a flag and say "there was no penalty on the play." Review rules have no bearing.
You are 100% right. I got the play where Lonnie Johnson defended Kelce and Andy Reid challenged it for PI in the second half mixed up in my mind with the hold you are talking about. Sorry, it's been a long day.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Tweet from @FB_FilmAnalysis: Texans empty sets are hard to deal with. You have double Hopkins, TE Fells isn’t a slouch, and if you single up Fuller, he’ll hurt you.

AND you have to put a spy on Watson because you’re defense is spread out vs empty.

And Watson can pick your zone apart and read blitzes too.
 
Another take away, my God the Chiefs and their fans are a bunch of whiners. I’m serious looking at their board they are whining about the refs and how the NFL is fixed more than the Saints did last year. At least the Saints had a legit argument and it cost them a SB spot.
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
I don't know whether Fairbairn or Anger or both must go, but something has to happen real quick-like, before it costs a game. Surely one or both will be cut tomorrow. You could tell by the good choice to go for that 4th and 3, instead of trying the 46-yard FG, that a decision had already been made.
 

ROO

Fire somebody...
I doubt either one gets cut. They need to get on the same page - Anger needs to hold like Fairbairn wants it. Or, let McCarron start holding... with lots of practice this week
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Another take away, my God the Chiefs and their fans are a bunch of whiners. I’m serious looking at their board they are whining about the refs and how the NFL is fixed more than the Saints did last year. At least the Saints had a legit argument and it cost them a SB spot.
Which fan base doesn't blame the refs ad nauseam and think the league is out to get them?
 

Brisco_County

Texans worthy
My takeaways:

1) Lonnie Johnson is the best pick from our 2019 draft. He's going to be very good.

2) We won because the Chiefs have neglected their defensive line. Zero sacks and Hyde ran all over them. That's all you need.

3) Hyde is a legit, top tier back. I still can't understand how three other teams couldn't properly utilize him before he landed with us. Is our line really that good? I think it's a combination of good blocking and Hyde's ability. Whatever it is, it's working and I'm a Hyde fan now.

4) Fuller is and always will be a body catcher. If he hasn't adopted catching with his hands by now, he never will. For this reason he will always be inconsistent.

5) The play calling has dramatically changed to incorporate short throws. We're seeing the slants and blitz beaters we've been begging for. Additional evidence is the absence of that screen play to Hopkins in the flats we used to see two or three times a game. This is one of the reasons the line is playing better and Watson's sack rate has improved.


About the non-PI on Johnson involving Kelce: I've never seen a defensive hold where the offensive player engaged the defender and held on to him. The refs agreed. Kelce took an obvious dive like a soccer flop. When BS like that gets rewarded, it ruins the game for everyone. It's one reason I can't watch soccer. The Chiefs can pound sand if they think that dive was a hold. Screw 'em.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
New OL, new RBs, or new offensive philosophy, whatever the hell it is we ran roughshod over the Chiefs. We almost doubled their time of possession.

Rushing Stats:
C. Hyde 26 for 116, AVG 4.5, TD 1
D. Watson 10 for 42, AVG 4.2, TD 2
D. Johnson 5 for 34, AVG 6.8, TD 0
Total 41 for 192, AVG 4.7, TD 3

Time of possession:
Texans 39:48 Chiefs 20:12

Consider the fact that the Texans had the ball for all of one play in the first ~6 minutes. From that point on , KC had possession for 14 minutes.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Right where I thought they would be record wise at this point …. Made up for the loss to Carolina against an in conference team I didn't think they would beat on the road. Big W in terms of potential tie breakers down the road.



Odds are these two teams meet again ….


Huge game next week ….
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Which fan base doesn't blame the refs ad nauseam and think the league is out to get them?
My thing about that board is that team has been dominating since Mahomes took over. After two losses, they're unhinged.

I know we have fans who are constantly negative, & we've got some that go into hiding until the bad times come then dominate a thread... but that's their whole board.

It doesn't make sense.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
My thing about that board is that team has been dominating since Mahomes took over. After two losses, they're unhinged.

I know we have fans who are constantly negative, & we've got some that go into hiding until the bad times come then dominate a thread... but that's their whole board.

It doesn't make sense.

Imagine if they had to endure what we have the last 18 years …. We've had one team in that time that was good enough to win it all and that got sidelined by an injury …. and we're left with another moral victory.

The only teams that can really relate to what we've been thru as a fanbase are the Bucs Man they were bad forever , The Aints Bagheads? , Jax as they've been bad to broken and the Browns over the last decade ...they couldn't do anything right.

Everyone else has pretty much had their share of good times ….

I've had enough moral victories …. I want a Lombardi.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Texans' Bill O'Brien discusses unsuccessful challenge, officiating
Aaron Wilson , Houston Chronicle Oct. 13, 2019

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- When the NFL decided to allow instant replay challenges of pass interference, it was intended to avoid controversial debacles like the bad no-call in the NFC championship game between the New Orleans Saints and the Los Angeles Rams.

Instead of clearing things up, though, it's had the opposite effect as NFL coaches are having to adapt to what different officiating crews think about pass interference infractions.

Texans coach Bill O'Brien was irate on the sideline when what appeared to be an obvious illegal pick play by tight end Travis Kelce wasn't flagged. Damian Williams gained 52 yards and the Texans wanted an offensive pass interference penalty one minute into a 31-24 win Sunday at Arrowhead Stadium. However, the play was upheld and the Texans were charged a timeout.

"I think it changes from crew to crew," O'Brien said. "Not many challenges have been overturned. I felt like there was a pick at the beginning of the game and it was a 52-yard pass play versus a high-scoring offense. So, I felt like that was an important challenge even though it was one minute into the game.

"That was a big gain, and if we could back them up there, then I felt that there was a pick, but they didn't. So, we have to look at that and we have to figure it out. It doesn't matter really in the end what we think. We have to understand what they're thinking."

O'Brien was asked what he would tell his players about the penalties and how the game is being called.

"We have to look at them and we have to be able to study them and we have to be able to show our players kind of what they are calling," O'Brien said. "You can stand up here and you can complain or you can really understand how the game is being officiated. I think the more we can understand it and our players can understand how the game is being officiated then we are going to be better for it."
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
RAC's defense is the red-headed stepchild around here ready to get whipped on at a moments notice, but they found a way to hold that potent offense in check for the majority of the day after a pretty rough start to the game. They deserve the game ball as a unit. Go in there with street FAs and rookies at the CB position against Pat Mahomes and come away with a victory? Good stuff.

Ok Tytus Im sure that sprained ankle hurt really bad, maybe the most pain you've ever felt, but cmon buddy. You had everyone worried, and today on Seth Payne he says you probably havent gotten your butt whipped weekly like this, so getting you conditioned to the violence will be important. The other week with the elbow you had to come out cuz it hurt too bad. Glad its not a big injury, but lets toughen up a bit yeah.

Tunsil is great. Tunsil also makes dumb mistakes. Cant be jumping offsides bro ESPECIALLY in the red zone, 2nd time this year on a Goal to go situation that he jumps off. Irks me. Next play Nuk drops a TD, and then the following the INT. Lead by example big fella if you dont like talking about leading.

Reader seems to be the most aggressive DL we have now. Watt will flail around and get there every now and again, but the funny thing at my house lately is watching Watt chase after a play, he's so beat up that it looks like he's in pain on every step. Borrowed time with that guy. Mercy is OK. Not good enough to throw any considerable money at him, a replacement would be easy in this scheme to amass similar if not better stats. MLBs continue to be a strength, along with the safeties.

Bye Fairbairn, good luck. I cant deal with it anymore, K replacement are too easy to put up with this disaster in the making.

Need to keep building on these small milestones. Team will rise up "rankings" .. individual praise will be heaped upon certain guys, but they need to keep building on each week, and next week they have a chance to solidify their hold on the division, and it all starts there. Team is giving me hope!
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Texans' Bill O'Brien discusses unsuccessful challenge, officiating
Aaron Wilson , Houston Chronicle Oct. 13, 2019

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- When the NFL decided to allow instant replay challenges of pass interference, it was intended to avoid controversial debacles like the bad no-call in the NFC championship game between the New Orleans Saints and the Los Angeles Rams.

Instead of clearing things up, though, it's had the opposite effect as NFL coaches are having to adapt to what different officiating crews think about pass interference infractions.

Texans coach Bill O'Brien was irate on the sideline when what appeared to be an obvious illegal pick play by tight end Travis Kelce wasn't flagged. Damian Williams gained 52 yards and the Texans wanted an offensive pass interference penalty one minute into a 31-24 win Sunday at Arrowhead Stadium. However, the play was upheld and the Texans were charged a timeout.

"I think it changes from crew to crew," O'Brien said. "Not many challenges have been overturned. I felt like there was a pick at the beginning of the game and it was a 52-yard pass play versus a high-scoring offense. So, I felt like that was an important challenge even though it was one minute into the game.

"That was a big gain, and if we could back them up there, then I felt that there was a pick, but they didn't. So, we have to look at that and we have to figure it out. It doesn't matter really in the end what we think. We have to understand what they're thinking."

O'Brien was asked what he would tell his players about the penalties and how the game is being called.

"We have to look at them and we have to be able to study them and we have to be able to show our players kind of what they are calling," O'Brien said. "You can stand up here and you can complain or you can really understand how the game is being officiated. I think the more we can understand it and our players can understand how the game is being officiated then we are going to be better for it."
Further proof the NFL is rigged.
 

CPTTexan

Waterboy
Another take away, my God the Chiefs and their fans are a bunch of whiners. I’m serious looking at their board they are whining about the refs and how the NFL is fixed more than the Saints did last year. At least the Saints had a legit argument and it cost them a SB spot.
To be fair....this is a gripe that ANY team can and should have. The refs have been absolutely horrible for years now, and seem to be getting worse. The refs are so wrong so often and it's making the game horrible. They are so worried about their egos, that on OBVIOUS PI, they won't change the call if it is challenged.

I still remember 2012 and the replacement refs. If you can honestly tell me that the "real" refs are so much better than the replacement refs were, then you see something I'm not seeing.
 

Fred

Veteran
Another take away, my God the Chiefs and their fans are a bunch of whiners. I’m serious looking at their board they are whining about the refs and how the NFL is fixed more than the Saints did last year. At least the Saints had a legit argument and it cost them a SB spot.
You don't usually have to wait too long to see a post with the same whining nonsense about the NFL being fixed on this board...
Further proof the NFL is rigged.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
To be fair....this is a gripe that ANY team can and should have. The refs have been absolutely horrible for years now, and seem to be getting worse. The refs are so wrong so often and it's making the game horrible. They are so worried about their egos, that on OBVIOUS PI, they won't change the call if it is challenged.

I still remember 2012 and the replacement refs. If you can honestly tell me that the "real" refs are so much better than the replacement refs were, then you see something I'm not seeing.
In the past 2 years, of the 121 NFL officials, 16 were new. Interesting to note (don't know how much this should factor into their potential skills/perspective), of the NFL official today only 2 have NFL player experience.
 

CPTTexan

Waterboy
In the past 2 years, of the 121 NFL officials, 16 were new. Interesting to note (don't know how much this should factor into their potential skills/perspective), of the NFL official today only 2 have NFL player experience.
So 13% are new? Okay....why do the other 87% suck so bad? I don't particularly think being a player has any advantage/disadvantage to being a ref. In the Saints case, the ref that blew the call played for the Rams at one point in his career. The refs have been blowing calls with more frequency of late. Now, I will say they make some amazing correct calls more than the incorrect calls, but there are obvious calls they miss that the entire viewing public can see on display....probably in 4K on a big screen TV. It's fine if it's not a call that can be challenged, but on plays that can.....how do they justify not correcting the call?
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
So 13% are new? Okay....why do the other 87% suck so bad? I don't particularly think being a player has any advantage/disadvantage to being a ref. In the Saints case, the ref that blew the call played for the Rams at one point in his career. The refs have been blowing calls with more frequency of late. Now, I will say they make some amazing correct calls more than the incorrect calls, but there are obvious calls they miss that the entire viewing public can see on display....probably in 4K on a big screen TV. It's fine if it's not a call that can be challenged, but on plays that can.....how do they justify not correcting the call?
I also think it gets noticed a lot more when they do mess up. I'm not defending them but lets say there are 100 calls in the game and 99 of them were the perfect call. Which call is going to get all the attention?
 


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