Take on re-signing Carr

[Vinny]

All I said was that fans want to win....I really don't have any particular player that I just have to have on any team I support. I just want the best players, and if we don't have them, I'd like to see them upgraded. First overall pick, unsigned FA...doesn't matter much to me.

 

[Texan Gal 312]

You said the average fan wouldn't support a team that didn't keep starting their first overall...I gave you an example of one. I think fans want to win...not just keep starting guys who are not working out.

I get your point and maybe I am forgetting something but I don't think New England acquired Bledsoe as a rookie with their number one draft pick.

 

[yaboycm]

We haven't seen Vince play anyone decent either...the Big 12 competes with CUSA this year.

The Ohio State. Tech. A&M. OU. Colorado in a couple of weeks.

All respectable teams.

Kansas actually had a good defense

 

[Vinny]

I get your point and maybe I am forgetting something but I don't think New England acquired Bledsoe as a rookie with their number one draft pick.

1993 NFL Draft

Round Pick Player Name Team Position College
1 1 1 Drew Bledsoe Patriots QB Washington State
2 2 Rick Mirer Seahawks QB Notre Dame
3 3 Garrison Hearst Cardinals RB Georgia
4 4 Marvin Jones Jets LB Florida State
5 5 John Copeland Bengals DE Alabama
6 6 Eric Curry Buccaneers DE Alabama
7 7 Curtis Conway Bears WR USC
8 8 Willie Roaf Saints T Louisiana Tech
9 9 Lincoln Kennedy Falcons T Washington

http://drafthistory.com/years/1993.html

 

[infantrycak]

The Patriots got rid of their first overall QB draft pick, went with their 5th round pick and it worked out pretty well for them.

Just an FYI--Brady was actually a bottom of the 6th round pick, 33rd pick in the round (sounds like a non-tradeable FA compensation pick), almost a 7th rounder.

 

[eriadoc]

I get your point and maybe I am forgetting something but I don't think New England acquired Bledsoe as a rookie with their number one draft pick.

People blasted the Pats as crazy for taking Bledsoe ahead of Mirer; I remember that.

 

[tulexan]

The Ohio State. Tech. A&M. OU. Colorado in a couple of weeks.

All respectable teams.

Kansas actually had a good defense

Saying that A&M has been respectable is questionable. Saying that Big 12 is comparable to C-USA is a stretch, but no one can say that the Big 12 is anywhere near the cream of the crop from top to bottom of the conference. They have 1 good team, a few mediocre teams, and a lot of really bad teams. But that is a different discussion.

The Bledsoe/Brady situation is much different than the Carr situation. Bledsoe got hurt and then Brady led them to a Super Bowl victory. He earned his starting job just like Jake Delhomme earned his starting position after being a backup by leading the Panthers to a Super Bowl after Rodney Peete got injured.

The fans accepted those guys because they led their teams to the Super Bowl. Dave Ragone isn't going to lead this team to the Super Bowl. I don't care if he is the Peyton Manning of NFL Europe, he can't even beat out Tony Banks for the backup spot.

 

[mean mark8]

And actually, Brady was a 6th round pick in only his second year.

Just because you are picked in a later round doesn't mean you don't have what it takes. Terrell Davis of the Broncos was also a 6th round pick. They also had an 11th rounder by the name of Karl Mecklenberg that became All-pro. Joe Montana was a 3rd round selection the same year they took Dwight Clarke in the 10th. I might add that they finished with the worst record in the league in the prior year and were winning the Super Bowl 2 years later. Jake DelHomme was an undrafted free agent. Kurt Warner was another undrafted free agent who actually backed up Banks behind Steve Bono when they were all with the Rams.

First round flops are plenty: Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Tony Mandarich, Ki-Jana Carter, Art Schlichter, Heath Shuler, Kelly Stouffer, Blair Thomas, Lawrence Phillips, Rick Mirer, Rashaan Salaam, etc.

At some point somebody just has to determine that the later round selection deserves a chance, especially when the high-priced 1st rounder isn't producing and is going to cost a lot of money to keep around. These are just plain examples.

 

[mean mark8]

...Dave Ragone isn't going to lead this team to the Super Bowl. I don't care if he is the Peyton Manning of NFL Europe, he can't even beat out Tony Banks for the backup spot.

You base this assessment on a coaching staff that had Riley starting at left tackle? The only reason Banks is our #2 is because he's an old veteran, period. This coaching staff believes you need that as your number 2 just because. They don't have a clue how to evaluate talent and who should play. Why isn't Armstrong playing? Where's Glenn Earl? Why do they seem to play Bradford over Gaffney and the aforementioned Armstrong? Why don't we have a pass receiving tight-end? Why'd we let Aaron Glen go for nothing? Who said Greenwood could play inside LB? Our team has the 3rd highest payroll in the league and has held a lead for all of 24 minutes and 58 seconds after 9 games, do you think these coaches can evaluate talent and use it appropriately?

 

[Frills]

Bledsoe was a #1 pick.

The difference is that he got injured midway through the season and his back-up, a late round rookie took over and led the team to the Superbowl. Bledsoe was then cut in the offseason.

If we cut Carr and start a late rounder, it wouldn't even be close to what happened in NE.

Brady still had Bledsoe around when going through the issues rookie QB's have. NE was an established team with leadership.

It wasn't like they cut Bledsoe, ignored their hole at QB till the 5th round and then got Brady.

If the Texans were to try to tell everyone that some 5th round pick was going to be their starter next season, there would be hell to pay

 

[Vinny]

Bledsoe wasn't cut, he was traded to the Bills. Also he struggled before he was injured (and not as much as Carr does). Brady wasn't considered "the answer" untill he played.

 

[Napa Auto Parts]

Bledsoe wasn't cut, he was traded to the Bills.

For a first round at that i believe.

 

[tulexan]

But Bledsoe was already at the decline of his career. After he was traded he had 1 good season with the Bills and then a bunch of really bad ones. He is playing better this season, but if he doesn't have complete protection he is garbage. The man is practically a statue when he has the ball.

 

[Vinny]

But Bledsoe was already at the decline of his career.

The Bills traded a first round pick for him.

 

[mean mark8]

Bledsoe was a #1 pick.

The difference is that he got injured midway through the season and his back-up, a late round rookie took over and led the team to the Superbowl. Bledsoe was then cut in the offseason.

If we cut Carr and start a late rounder, it wouldn't even be close to what happened in NE.

Brady still had Bledsoe around when going through the issues rookie QB's have. NE was an established team with leadership.

It wasn't like they cut Bledsoe, ignored their hole at QB till the 5th round and then got Brady.

If the Texans were to try to tell everyone that some 5th round pick was going to be their starter next season, there would be hell to pay

Ragone was a 3rd round pick. Brady was a 6th round pick. Montana was a 3rd round pick. Kurt Warner and Jake Delhomme were undrafted free agents.

What was Kelly Holcombe who replaced a former #1 in Couch? Drew Brees was a 2nd round pick, who granted was almost run out of town, but has beat out their sort-of #1 overall pick in Rivers. Big Ben had the great Tommy Maddox to teach him the trade. If the team wins, everyone will be happy. If the team loses, no amount of overall #1 picks is going to make anyone happy.

 

[blankfixation]

Here's just a thought I'm throwing out there.

What if we played Ragone for a half and Carr for a half in our next 3 or so ball games?

I think it would fairly evaluate how Carr's performing rather than just simply benching him and letting Ragone play against what is supposed to be easier teams in 5 of the last 7 games. If Ragone outplays him, Ragone earns more playing time and McNair has something to think about before just handing over $8 million plus $5.5 million salary for 2 years and $6 million for one more to a QB who hasn't shown too much more than incredible guts and a decent start last year. If Ragone isn't the QB that he looked like in Europe and stinks things up, it should be a lot easier signing Carr and looking for coaching and line help. To me this sounds like a sound business decision. Who cares about trying Banks because he is not the QB of our future. This is just to see if Ragone might be. Remember, Tom Brady replaced a former number one overall pick while he was in his second year after being drafted in the 6th round, 199th overall.

agreed

 

[Nighthawk]

I would be hard pressed to believe they would throw it all down the drain for "Three year option: $8 mill s/b, base salaries of $5.25 mill in '06 and '07, and $6 mill in '08" - AJ.

Carr stays. Carr Improves. The Texans Improve.

I don't know what makes you think Carr will improve, but that's what makes the world go around, I guess. To my eye he is now--and has been from day 1--a surprisingly incompetent NFL QB with no field sense, no pocket awareness, no reading ability, no leadership quality, and a cannon arm.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

If is wasn't for the last part on the cannon arm, I read this same post about 5 time pro-bowler Mcnabb. They had " big game choker " instead. Would to add " have a great game sunday.. Super Dave. "

I would kill for a QB who could lead us to a big game.

 

[MorKnolle]

Here's just a thought I'm throwing out there.

What if we played Ragone for a half and Carr for a half in our next 3 or so ball games?

I think it would fairly evaluate how Carr's performing rather than just simply benching him and letting Ragone play against what is supposed to be easier teams in 5 of the last 7 games. If Ragone outplays him, Ragone earns more playing time and McNair has something to think about before just handing over $8 million plus $5.5 million salary for 2 years and $6 million for one more to a QB who hasn't shown too much more than incredible guts and a decent start last year. If Ragone isn't the QB that he looked like in Europe and stinks things up, it should be a lot easier signing Carr and looking for coaching and line help. To me this sounds like a sound business decision. Who cares about trying Banks because he is not the QB of our future. This is just to see if Ragone might be. Remember, Tom Brady replaced a former number one overall pick while he was in his second year after being drafted in the 6th round, 199th overall.

That would be a horrible decision. Teams that utilize these QB-by-committees where QBs trade time in each game are always bad, and I don't know that it has ever really been attempted in the NFL. A QB cannot get any kind of flow or rhythm for the game if they play the first quarter, then sit out the next two quarters, and come back in for the fourth. If we wanted to see what Ragone can do this season, and I don't, we should just play him for a game or two somewhere in there rather than trying to split time on a single game with him and Carr. This would both be bad for the team and likely not give either of them a chance to get going in the game and give any kind of accurate reflection of what they are capable of. Either way, Ragone gets a chance to prove himself in practice every day and obviously he has done nothing to suggest to the coaches that they should put him in the game, so I'm against him playing at all barring injuries or maybe putting him in at the end of a blowout game.