I love what I have seen too but it's just to dam soon to make any kind of judgment call on Keenam. He needs to show he can perform at this level consistently before I'll say let's pass on a QB in the draft. Even then if we have a chance at a franchise type QB we should really consider it.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Tajh Boyd
- Thread starter TexansSeminole
- Start date
I love what I have seen too but it's just to dam soon to make any kind of judgment call on Keenam. He needs to show he can perform at this level consistently before I'll say let's pass on a QB in the draft. Even then if we have a chance at a franchise type QB we should really consider it.
IMO, neither Geno Smith nor Boyd can be upgrade from Keenum.
They are bigger, but not better QBs.
Keenum makes the guys around him better, especially the O-line.
I know many of you thought I was crazy when I considered drafting him in the first round; the only thing I would concede at the time is his stature and injury history; to safeguard against the risk, I would put him in the third to fourth round category because his floor is a great backup QB.
I was very comfortable drafting him in the second round though.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I have to agree.
If Keenum plays the way he has been playing, we have something here and probably shouldn't look at a QB for the first few rounds, unless it's a sure fire franchise guy. I don't see a sure fire franchise quarterback in this draft. The closest thing is probably Bridgewater.
Having said that, we just haven't seen enough play time from Keenum to make that call yet. It's looking more and more like we may have something special though, which would be the best case scenario, obviously.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Geno Smith has more 4th quarter come from behind and game winning drives than any NFL rookie before him and he's still figuring it out. To some this comes as no surprise as did it time and time again in college.
I have have seen most of his games as well. In a large amount of the big games Alabama has played the outcome is decided by the half. McCarron takes these games over right from the start. Taking what the defense gives you without turning it over is a big part of being a good nfl Qb, but I see a kid who can also throw people open and dominate games. I will respectfully disagree that his ceiling is an Alex Smith type.
With 15 seconds left, The ball at the Jets 45, Smith ran for 10 to the Bucs 45.
The Bucs committed a stupid 15-yd penalty that have the Jets the ball at the 30.
Folk made a 48-yd FG to win the game.
If you call that a winning drive; it's your choice.
The Bills gave the game away despite two INTs by Smith.
The Falcons also gave the game away; they aren't much better off than the Texans in this regard.
The Pats played an uncharacteristic game.
The Jets missed a 56yd FG, but the Pats committed a 15-yd penalty to give the Jets a first down.
Eleven consecutive run plays on that drive, including a one-yard loss by Smith brought about a 42yd winning FG.
If you think 13 INTs (including 3 pick-sixes) as the definition of a franchise QB, then more power to you.
badboy
Hall of Fame
You avoided my question, if McCarron's YPC = game manager, then the other QB at .5 yards less should indicate same. You cannot have it both ways. In 2012 McCarron threw 42 passes greater than 20 yards.that in itself implies the definition of a game manager
plus Boyd's OL does not compare to Alabama.
Exascor
Veteran
Then Geno Smith obviously didn't play well enough in the first 3 quarters. Same with Luck. He was a well below average QB on Sunday night...until the 4th. That is a terribly overrated stat.
Texian
Hall of Fame
A lot of if's, and's and but's there fellas
Texans 20 Seattle 6; Texans 21 Colts 3; (not the first time)
Last edited:
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
58% completion percentage, 7.3 yards per attempt. 8 TD to 13 interceptions, 30 sacks, and 6 fumbles (3 lost) is not good. That's Geno Smith. He has the lowest rating of all starting QBs in the NFL at 71.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Tough Crowd....he's a rookie with only 8 career NFL starts
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Is this supposed to sway people over to the side of Geno being a franchise QB? Because it's not really that convincing if it is.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Btw, Texian,
My top four guys in the last draft, including Geno, were drafted the highest.
It doesn't mean squat really, but I do know about them.
The two dark horses were Dysert and Bray.
Each of them has certain quality and certain deficiency; I don't see any of them as a better prospect than Keenum, unlike the previous year.
My top four guys in the last draft, including Geno, were drafted the highest.
It doesn't mean squat really, but I do know about them.
The two dark horses were Dysert and Bray.
Each of them has certain quality and certain deficiency; I don't see any of them as a better prospect than Keenum, unlike the previous year.
You're weird sometimes.
Are we evaluating teams, coaches, or individual talents?
Please let me know which one we're talking about.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
You have a pattern of cherry picking when confronted about a player. That's clear when you talk about players you're in love with or vice versa. I'll be the 1st to say geno has been more cold than hot. I'm not making excuses,but who is he throwing to? I agree the pats win was fluke-ish,but when you say the bills gave the game away,that's your cherry picking. I'm guessing you didn't see the 2 bombs he threw from the pocket under pressure? No play action boot to get his feet clean. Just a 5 step drop,man in his face and hit both hil and and holmes in stride.
See,this is where we differ on what we look for in a qb. I personally want a qb who can succeed without having to be schemed. Maybe you like others want a qb the opposite. To say after 2 games or going back to your evaluations that neither boyd or geno are upgrades, doesn't really hold weight. That's your opinion,but I always like to say only time tells. So you can bring your radar gun theory or your still footage to show jackson is a good cornerback,that's your thing. I hope as a texans fan case play continues.
We can differ on our takes, but by your own standard; ie. you want a franchise QB, Geno Smith isn't one; even the Jets coaching staff said so.
There's an article somewhere on the net.
Here's the article, you can read for yourself:
http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2013/10/scout_smith_wasnt_drafted_to_be_a_superstar_-_will_need_time_to_develop.html
http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2013/10/scout_smith_wasnt_drafted_to_be_a_superstar_-_will_need_time_to_develop.html
Mari-OWNED!
Bucco Bruce
I'm not comparing the two, but Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs his rookie year. Just because there are a lot of rookie QBs finding success early on as of late doesn't mean we should condemn the ones who don't just blow up from the get-go.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
He also threw 26 touchdowns. They basically have the same INT per attempt %, but Smith has 2.9% TDs per attempt while Peyton had 4.5%. This is also 15 years ago when the rules were not as slanted toward the offense.
I just like to mess with Leebigz sometimes, LOL.
He irked me by claiming that Keenum is not an NFL QB even before the guy play a single down.
He also calls Keenum's game against the Chiefs just OK; it's only normal that I call a 2-pick game by Geno against the Bills a ho-hum; those picks could have hurt the Jets, if not for some blunders by the Bills.
Don't forget that Geno and Case run pretty much the same offense.
Holgorsen, the HC at W. Virginia was the OC for the Cougars, when he combine his air raid offense with Briles' version.
They also had the same QB coach.
I can say that I know their games quite well.
Also, Smith was one of the 3 QBs from last year class that I think as having a chance to become a starting QB in the NFL, but I have Manuel the highest upside.
Smith is next and Barkley third.
(This is somewhat close to Leebigz' evaluation.)
I also gave Glennon a fighting chance.
Dysert I saw as a long shot, and Bray as having talent but with red flag for his behavior.
Texian
Hall of Fame
You know how it takes a new OC with a new Offensive system 2 years to fully implement and completely install the new offense? Kind of like how it took Alex Gibbs 2 years to install his ZBS and how it took the OL 2 years to completely understand and learn Gibb's system. That's the same reason you need to give a rookie QB 30 NFL starts (2 years) before you really know just how good or bad that rookie QB is going to be. Geno Smith has 8 starts as an NFL QB. I will venture to say he will be better after 30 starts. How much better? I don't know. That's why you have to give them at least 30 starts.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I'm not saying the case is closed on Geno Smith, just that he hasn't been good so far. He's been inconsistent and bad, in my opinion.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
So when rex called sanchez a franchise qb despite have 0 special traits, how did u take those comments?
So has Boyd become a complete dud now? If the Texans were to take a non-QB with the #1 overall, then this guy later in the draft, would we have sufficiently "addressed" our QB situation?
I don't think he's become a complete dud, but I did a review of him a couple months ago and was not impressed with what I saw. He strikes me as a good backup, or mediocre starter who will have moderate success depending on the team around him. I don't think he'll ever be the QB to carry his team to success. If the Texans took Boyd any earlier than the 3rd round then I'd be very disappointed and would expect them to address QB again the next year in the 1st round of 2015. There are better QB's to be had in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of 2014. I'd rather have McCarron or Murray.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Boyd is a loser. I was all over the Boyd train and trying hard to believe and buy into a short QB because of RusWil and Brees thing, but this guy sucks.
He cost me an embarrassing bet with a friend and after that he is dead to me.
So, NO, he is not an answer if we get him late. Only QB I might gamble on 3rd round and later would be someone like David Fales. I will probably be on an island there though.
I don't expect Boyd to get drafted until end of round 3 or round 4 unless he beasts out in the Orange Bowl which I doubt. He's probably gonna get his A handed to him.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I'm saying, boyd is a better prospect than a lot of these guys. Mettenburger,Mccarron is just a few. He has inconsistent footwork,but when he sets up properly, he throws good balls.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
No, not at all. I think he lost a bit of value this year, but not nearly enough to consider him a dud.
I think he'll be a second rounder, third at the latest. I would like for us to target him if we end up not going with a QB at 1-1.
I wouldn't bet on that, you're likely to lose again. Boyd is going to light Ohio State up. OSU's defense sucks and their best corner is hurt.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Hard to blame the safety on him too. Two guys on him and he had to unload the ball.
That flip pass was not well executed. He needs to be careful there. He made up for it in that past drive to make it 21-9.
Last edited:
Only because don't want to look nor start another thread, anybody I argued with about Hopkins versus Watkins based mostly on pure production in 2012, I was plenty wrong.
NastyNate
I go kerplunk
I guess I missed it. I'm assuming you said something along the lines of Hopkins' production was due in large part to them doubling Sammy Watkins? Or countered that point?
Worse if anything...I actually downgraded Watkins because his suspension and injury last year to being overrated and Hopkins to being underrated. Hopkins had silly numbers last year, and Watkins were overall meh...I ignored the fact that while Hopkins will probably be a nice pro WR, Watkins can do spit that Hopkins can't even dream about.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Glad you have had a chance to watch some Watkins.
Nice throw by Boyd there to Watkins. Can't get enough of Watkins.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Watkins was extremely raw as a freshman and sophomore. He excelled mostly on just plain speed. This year he has really taken it to the next level as a receiver.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Yeah, he is a great player. I would love him on the Texans.
AT, that was you and I who originally got into the argument about Watkins BTW.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
As I stated before, I would take b4 a lot of qbs not named bridgewater. His mechanics get slopy at times.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
He's pretty athletic. Has a very McNair-like build.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I kinda like Boyd.
Of course, Watkins is freaking. in. sane. And that could make Boyd look better than he is.
But I liked Boyd last year when I was looking at some of Hopkins' tape. I like that he puts the ball in places for his receivers to make plays. Like I said though, that's easy with someone like Watkins.
Of course, Watkins is freaking. in. sane. And that could make Boyd look better than he is.
But I liked Boyd last year when I was looking at some of Hopkins' tape. I like that he puts the ball in places for his receivers to make plays. Like I said though, that's easy with someone like Watkins.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
I believe he has a legitimate shot to be a starting QB in the NFL someday. He is a bigger version of Russell Wilson, who was graded behind Foles, Cousins, Tannehill, RG3, Luck & Weeden. Incidentally, Foles wound up in Philadelphia in DeMeco Ryans trade. Texans got a 4th for Ryans (Ben Jones) & they flipped 3rd's, Houston with #76 took Brandon Brooks, while Philly used Texan slot #88 to select Foles.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I think if boyd had come out last yr,he would've been drafted about where he will be drafted this yr, top 2nd -3rd rd. There is a lot to like about boyd from a talent point. He's sturdy,has a great arm with a compact delivery,and he's very mobile. I don't like the offense he plays in,but I don't like a lot of college offenses. Boyd gets in trouble with footwork. He can throw from various platform and it looks like he has 10" hands. When he's mechanically sound,he can make every throw accurate. When he's not,he'll skip a slant route like mcnabb or cutler. He's gotten better every yr. He'll probably measure at 6'1 220lbs just eyeballing him. If the texans were to take some other than Bridgewater at #1, I would like boyd wth the 33rd pick.
aussie_texan
Veteran
yeah but will didn't see is draft stock fall dramatically in his last year.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
check out beginning of this thread, beginning of October, little movement, if anything he played himself into shape as season went along. I still like him.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
It's all up to B'OB now. If Boyd is his fallback position guy then I'm good with it. Was trying to compare his last game performance for Clemson to Russell Wilson for Wisconsin against Oregon but its really not apples to apples. 300 yards, 19/25 2 TD & 1 pick. Russell only rushed 6 times for 18 yards but then he had Monte Ball. QBR 92.3
Boyd Orange outing had 20 rushing attempts for 137 yards & a score, mostly on designed plays but often when flushed & nowhere to throw the ball. 31-40 378 yards 5 TD's 2 INT's & 2 sacks. QBR 85.1
Bottom line both where record setting, athletic QB's for their respective schools. Wilson is just very efficient, smart & despite his lack of size the better athlete. I like your eyeball measurement for Boyd, think that is about right, he does need some weight on his bones because he receives & dishes out more contact, important for his durability. Also feel O'Brian would be able to harness his talent & make him more cerebral, work through his progressions.