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Super Bowl LI discussion
- Thread starter xtruroyaltyx
- Start date
Sigma
Veteran
he should have made some kind of joke about trying to deflate the trophy, that would have been the best
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Photoshopped.Think Brady did this on purpose? Pretty unusual way to have your hands in that situation.
http://www.snopes.com/tom-brady-flip-off-nfl-commissioner/
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
It's the 1st time a Super Bowl game went into OT so it has to be, right?
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
It is, and the next closest was Super Bowl 5 when Baltimore had the lead for just the last 5 seconds.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Not necessarily, although it's considerably more likely to happen in an overtime game where in some instances it effectively becomes sudden death. A team can score on the final play of regulation to win the game and never hold the lead prior to the end of regulation.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Yeah, I know. I don't recall a team winning on the final play with the clock at 0:00, though. I could be wrong there, though.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
I'm sure there are several out there, although this one came to mind first for some reason.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201012190nyg.htm
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
SUPER BOWL.
The Patriots are the only team to never lead until the last play in the SUPER BOWL.
Next closest, Super Bowl 5. The Colts didn't lead at all in that game until they kicked a FG with 5 seconds left.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
I wasn't disputing that (I'm smart/aware enough to know the factual situation). The comment was made that it had to be the first time since it was the first ever Super Bowl to go into overtime. I simply pointed out it didn't have to be an overtime game for that to happen.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Giants-Eagles? I thought we were talking Super Bowl history here. Did I really have to specify that when Super Bowl history is the ongoing conversation?
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
You said it has to be the first time. I didn't dispute that it was the first time, only that your statement about it having to be was flawed.
It is the first time, but simply being the first overtime game didn't mean it defaulted to being the first time.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Wow. It wasn't a factual statement. I even posed it as a question. Because it was the 1st Super Bowl game to go into OT, and I don't recall a Super Bowl game ending on the final play with the clock at 0:00, I assumed it had to be true.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Yes, you posed it as a question (didn't it have to be the first time because it was the first overtime game), and my answer to the question you posed was "not necessarily". I wasn't attempting to answer the question of if it was the first time (as has been established, it was), but rather answer your question of if overtime meant it had to be the first time. It didn't. It was, but it didn't have to be.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Which I've already said I knew. I made the comment with the assumption that no SB game ended on the last play of the game, which turned out to be a correct assumption. I've already admitted the comment wasn't intended to be factual. I really didn't even care enough to research it.
So, the Falcons fire DC Richard Smith after this 25 point meltdown.
The same Richard Smith that used to be DC of our crappy defense during the Kubiak years.
But, perhaps more important, the same Richard Smith that was on the Oilers staff for 35-3.
Dude has the worst luck as a coach. I'm not superstitious, but I would never hire the dude after he's been tainted with two of the biggest come from behind postseason games in NFL history.
It's almost like they were tempting fate to bring THAT coach back to Houston, back to the ancient Indian burial grounds under NRG and the Astrodome. The football gods are a-holes, man. Of that I have no doubt.
I really feel for Falcons fans. They have no idea right now. The hurt they have right now will be with them for the rest of their lives as football fans. I think the only way to lose it is to stop caring about pro football altogether (but that's just an assumption on my part because I've never tried it).
The same Richard Smith that used to be DC of our crappy defense during the Kubiak years.
But, perhaps more important, the same Richard Smith that was on the Oilers staff for 35-3.
Dude has the worst luck as a coach. I'm not superstitious, but I would never hire the dude after he's been tainted with two of the biggest come from behind postseason games in NFL history.
It's almost like they were tempting fate to bring THAT coach back to Houston, back to the ancient Indian burial grounds under NRG and the Astrodome. The football gods are a-holes, man. Of that I have no doubt.
I really feel for Falcons fans. They have no idea right now. The hurt they have right now will be with them for the rest of their lives as football fans. I think the only way to lose it is to stop caring about pro football altogether (but that's just an assumption on my part because I've never tried it).
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Baby Shanny out-smarted himself with that idiotic playcalling in the fourth quarter. I re-watched the game a couple of times and all he had to do was call for a few more running plays late in the game. Especially up 8 points with a 1st and 10 at the Patriots 23 yard line.
Why on earth would they even attempt a pass? A Matt Ryan sack took them out of field goal range which allowed Tom Brady to orchestrate the game-tying drive. Run three straight times, hell just fall forward three straight times, and force the Pats to burn a couple timeouts and allow Matt Bryant to hit a 40-ish yard field goal to go up 11 points. It may have even been under 40 yards if they gain any yardage on three straight running play. It's a 40 to 45 yarder (Matt Bryant is 78 % from that range) even if they gain no yards or lose some yards on three straight runs, but they would have been in position to kick a field goal to go up two scores and force the Patriots to burn some timeouts.
Kyle Shanahan should have a shiny Super Bowl 51 ring on his finger.
Instead he's going to coach the 49ers leaving Falcons fans perplexed and stunned.
Why on earth would they even attempt a pass? A Matt Ryan sack took them out of field goal range which allowed Tom Brady to orchestrate the game-tying drive. Run three straight times, hell just fall forward three straight times, and force the Pats to burn a couple timeouts and allow Matt Bryant to hit a 40-ish yard field goal to go up 11 points. It may have even been under 40 yards if they gain any yardage on three straight running play. It's a 40 to 45 yarder (Matt Bryant is 78 % from that range) even if they gain no yards or lose some yards on three straight runs, but they would have been in position to kick a field goal to go up two scores and force the Patriots to burn some timeouts.
Kyle Shanahan should have a shiny Super Bowl 51 ring on his finger.
Instead he's going to coach the 49ers leaving Falcons fans perplexed and stunned.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
So, the Falcons fire DC Richard Smith after this 25 point meltdown.
The same Richard Smith that used to be DC of our crappy defense during the Kubiak years.
But, perhaps more important, the same Richard Smith that was on the Oilers staff for 35-3.
Dude has the worst luck as a coach. I'm not superstitious, but I would never hire the dude after he's been tainted with two of the biggest come from behind postseason games in NFL history.
It's almost like they were tempting fate to bring THAT coach back to Houston, back to the ancient Indian burial grounds under NRG and the Astrodome. The football gods are a-holes, man. Of that I have no doubt.
I really feel for Falcons fans. They have no idea right now. The hurt they have right now will be with them for the rest of their lives as football fans. I think the only way to lose it is to stop caring about pro football altogether (but that's just an assumption on my part because I've never tried it).
Seth Payne HATES that guy...
I feel like they wanted to get Julio Jones a touchdown. Seems weird they would start passing the ball with that much time. Also, I felt bad for the owner of the Falcons. He went down to the sidelines to celebrate only to be stunned.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Richard Smith wasn't the problem though...
I thought he executed one hell of a gameplan to stop Tom Brady.
Tom Brady is going to get his. You can't stop him cold for a full 60 minutes and 4 quarters.
He's the GOAT for a reason. Eventually he's going to have a few amazing drives...
The Falcons D stopped him flat for three quarters and beat him up physically. Tom Brady looked helpless being helped off the field after a few monster hits. Held them to only 12 total points early in the fourth quarter! Also forced Brady into a rare pick six in which he eyed his intended receiver the entire time. He usually looks the defensive backs off, scans the field then quickly hits his wide open guy.
Like I said in my last post, Kyle Shanahan. Ugh, horrible playcalling in the fourth quarter.
But I guess the Falcons had to have a scapegoat and baby Shanny was leaving to San Fran.
All I know is this, if you run the ball and milk clock, Tom Brady isn't on the field.
He's on the sideline feeling frustrated and hopeless. He wouldn't have time to force overtime.
I feel bad for Richard Smith... The dude worked his ass off and should be a Super Bowl 51 champion. And santo, ditto here bro. I also feel bad for the Falcons owner. He left the owner's suite nearby Bob McNair's suite. He was on the sideline with the Falcons leading 28-12 early in the fourth quarter thinking he was 10 minutes away from celebrating a championship win.
I thought he executed one hell of a gameplan to stop Tom Brady.
Tom Brady is going to get his. You can't stop him cold for a full 60 minutes and 4 quarters.
He's the GOAT for a reason. Eventually he's going to have a few amazing drives...
The Falcons D stopped him flat for three quarters and beat him up physically. Tom Brady looked helpless being helped off the field after a few monster hits. Held them to only 12 total points early in the fourth quarter! Also forced Brady into a rare pick six in which he eyed his intended receiver the entire time. He usually looks the defensive backs off, scans the field then quickly hits his wide open guy.
Like I said in my last post, Kyle Shanahan. Ugh, horrible playcalling in the fourth quarter.
But I guess the Falcons had to have a scapegoat and baby Shanny was leaving to San Fran.
All I know is this, if you run the ball and milk clock, Tom Brady isn't on the field.
He's on the sideline feeling frustrated and hopeless. He wouldn't have time to force overtime.
I feel bad for Richard Smith... The dude worked his ass off and should be a Super Bowl 51 champion. And santo, ditto here bro. I also feel bad for the Falcons owner. He left the owner's suite nearby Bob McNair's suite. He was on the sideline with the Falcons leading 28-12 early in the fourth quarter thinking he was 10 minutes away from celebrating a championship win.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
The only explanation I've got: Being aggressive was their style of football all year. Plus, on 2nd & 11 they wanted the ball in the MVP's hands. If you have an elite QB, as I believe Ryan is in now, you trust the ball in his hands late in the game. Ryan just failed getting rid of the ball.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
When I was watching the game it felt like the Falcons were going to end up with a long field goal on that drive. Possibility the kicker misses there and also if he did make it, I still didn't think the game was necessarily over.
I think the Falcons wanted to really put the game away and it back fired.
Smart play is to definitely run it and drain the clock. Kick your field goal.
But I can understand the logic behind what they did.
I think the Falcons wanted to really put the game away and it back fired.
Smart play is to definitely run it and drain the clock. Kick your field goal.
But I can understand the logic behind what they did.
I heard the stat that the Falcons only ran the ball five times once the score was 28-3. FIVE TIMES!!!
That's just bad playcalling. I agree with BoP and Santo, Kyle just outsmarted himself. His apparent arrogance as a coach and the high powered offense that got him to the Super Bowl was something that his ego could not check and just play smart football with a 25 point lead. And tbh, Dan Quinn should have forced the issue. Ultimately, the head coach should have situational awareness to understand basic time management and the run game should have been utilized much, much more, if for nothing else to take time off the clock that Brady could not use.
btw, I wasn't blaming Richard Smith for the loss, but rather just commenting on what horrible luck he's got as a coach. To have to live through those two historic meltdowns is not something I'd wish on anyone.
That's just bad playcalling. I agree with BoP and Santo, Kyle just outsmarted himself. His apparent arrogance as a coach and the high powered offense that got him to the Super Bowl was something that his ego could not check and just play smart football with a 25 point lead. And tbh, Dan Quinn should have forced the issue. Ultimately, the head coach should have situational awareness to understand basic time management and the run game should have been utilized much, much more, if for nothing else to take time off the clock that Brady could not use.
btw, I wasn't blaming Richard Smith for the loss, but rather just commenting on what horrible luck he's got as a coach. To have to live through those two historic meltdowns is not something I'd wish on anyone.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
You're right and I agree. However, with with that 28-20 lead with 4 minutes and change left in the game. Matt Ryan just connected on a sensational first down pass to Julio Jones at the Patriots' 23 yard line. It looked like the Falcons were about to take a two-score lead, 31-20. They "DID NOT NEED" to be aggressive and score another Touchdown in that situation. At that point "PLAYING SMART" and winning Super Bowl 51 should have been Kyle Shanahan's only priority.
At that point "all passing" should be done with. You run the ball three straight times, just fall forward. Even if you achieve no gain on all three runs you keep the clock milking, force the Patriots to burn some timeouts. And you set up a 40-yard field goal by Matt Bryant - maybe 41, 42 or 43-yard field goal if you lost a yard or two on those "three straight runs!"
Matt Bryant had nearly an 80 % conversion rate on field goals from 40 to 45 yards.
Chances are he'll make the field goal and put the Falcons up 11 points late in the game. Tom Brady would have had zero timeouts, and needed a TD and two points, an onside kick and field goal just to force overtime.
Instead Kyle Shanahan was "too cool for school" and wanted to stay aggressive. Matt Ryan is sacked for a major loss on that series of snaps. You went from 1st and 10 at the Patriots 23-yard line (40-yard field goal) to out of field goal range. You had to punt and Tom Brady was Tom Brady after that.
In his post-game interview Kyle Shanahan sounded really naive and dumbfounded to me. He said that he didn't want to play for a 50-yard field goal with the game on the line. He wanted to win the game on Matt Ryan's arm. I mean what the hell? It would have been a 40-yard field goal and not 50 - you were at the 23 yard line of the Patriots!
Aye caramba, baby Shanny had a Super Bowl championship ring on his finger and basically threw it away is what happened to me... And your run game and Matt Bryant, a reliable kicker, could have won you a Super Bowl 51 ring.
If I were a 49ers fan I'd be a little sad with the hiring of Kyle Shanahan as head coach, to go along with an unproven general manager in John Lynch, who was apparently "buddy buddy" with Kyle Shanahan during a game a few weeks back that Lynch was covering as a color commentator.
I love me some baby Shanny. He was successful as the Texans offensive coordinator when Schaub was our quarterback. We had seven Pro Bowlers on offense! And a well balanced attack - top 5 passing and top 5 rushing. He had a hell of a year as the Falcons offensive coordinator in 2016. But damn, he sure did "BLOW" Super Bowl 51 with some pathetic play calls late in that game. It cost the Falcons a Super Bowl 51 victory.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Exactly. I just don't get it. Five total runs after having a 28-3 lead!
And yet, if Kyle Shanahan just calls for a run three straight times when the ball was 1st and 10 at the Patriots' 23-yard line late in the game... Trust your backs not to fumble and Matt Bryant to make a 40-ish yard field goal that he normally makes - maybe even a 35-to-39 yarder if you gain a few yards on those three straight runs... He likely gives the ball back to Tom Brady with an 11-point deficit and no timeouts. The Patriots would have needed a MIRACLE just to force overtime in that situation.
I still can't believe Kyle Shanahan "F'd!" it up so badly guys." I'm baffled by it.
I'm just glad that he didn't do that with the Texans. I'd be heartbroken. LOL
I can laugh about it because I'm not a Falcons fan but I feel bad for fans in the ATL!
Baby Shanny proved he had the IQ of a baby in that late-game situation!!!!
I'm sorry but if Devonta Freeman doesn't miss that block on Hightower, the Falcons win that game.
and I'm not blaming Shanahan for staying aggressive. Like Bum would say, "You dance with who brung ya"; and aggressive offense 'brung' the Falcons to the Super Bowl.
and I'm not blaming Shanahan for staying aggressive. Like Bum would say, "You dance with who brung ya"; and aggressive offense 'brung' the Falcons to the Super Bowl.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
It's not like Atlanta was all pass, pass, pass. They had the 5th best ground game in both yards per game and yards per attempt. That "brung" them there too. You'd given up 17 unanswered points at that point, you've got to put points on the board to stop the bleeding. Aggressiveness is one thing, playing smart is another.
If Coleman doesn't get hurt the play before, Freeman isn't in the game, Coleman picks up Hightower, Falcons win the game.
I get where you're coming from but think about it; on the drive that got them close they had just gashed the Pats for big yards on plays of 49 yds and 27 yds. So aggressiveness had just paid off for them in a big way. That drive started at their own 10 and big passing plays got them damn near in the red zone (Pats' 22). Why would 'going turtle' even inter Shanahan's mind?
I'm not saying *I* would have passed in that situation (I'd have run the ball three times to burn clock and make the Pats use timeouts), but I get why Shanahan thought it would work.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Yeah, that aggressiveness got them in to scoring range. Now you've got to play smart. You're talking about an NFL championship here. And I don't agree that going to the ground game is "going turtle". As I've said, Atlanta has one of the best run games in football and who's to say Freeman doesn't break off another 37 yarder? The run game was a big part of their success all year, not just Ryan and Julio.
I think we are in, what we used to call, "Violent Agreement".
We both think the smart thing to do would have been to (a) at least get the field goal to make it a two score game and (b) use up as much time as possible while you do that which means run the damned ball.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Atlanta went up 28-3 with 23 minutes left. From that point on they ran only 17 plays to NE's 49.
You can say that they were too aggressive and didn't run the ball enough but when they did run the ball they got nothing out of it. In fact, most of their runs were so ineffective that it put them in positions where they had to pass.
Run - 5 plays for 0 yards
Pass - 12 plays for 49 yards
Really the only play that made no sense was the 3rd & 1 where they tried to throw while they were up 16 with 8:30 left.
Overall, player execution was the issue not coaching. If Atlanta had been super conservative and still lost people would be criticizing the coaches for that too. Bottom line, Atlanta's coaches put their guys in position to win and the players choked it away.
You can say that they were too aggressive and didn't run the ball enough but when they did run the ball they got nothing out of it. In fact, most of their runs were so ineffective that it put them in positions where they had to pass.
Run - 5 plays for 0 yards
Pass - 12 plays for 49 yards
Really the only play that made no sense was the 3rd & 1 where they tried to throw while they were up 16 with 8:30 left.
Overall, player execution was the issue not coaching. If Atlanta had been super conservative and still lost people would be criticizing the coaches for that too. Bottom line, Atlanta's coaches put their guys in position to win and the players choked it away.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
That was the feeling I got watching the game.