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Sunday's Justice column: Carr driven by 2-14 disaster
- Thread starter Marcus
- Start date
TEXANRED said:
Is there any reason for you to believe Matt would be better than Carr??
I don't see it either.
Vince...... yeah, I see it.
The "ratings".......... I don't understand what they are using to "rate" these players.
TEXANRED said:
No apologies necessary. I'm just having fun but it's hard to see my **** eating grin through the monitor. You'll recall in that article, even though it was sickeningly pro-Vince, that I also said that it would be nice to see what Carr could do in a system designed by Gary Kubiak.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
dwilt72 said:
C'mon folks there are different ways of doing things. Contrast Manning and the Colts getting lined up in the 1st 5 or 6 seconds and then futzing around for 15 seconds to the way most teams do it. There have been reports Carr was frequently waiting on offensive play calls from Palmer and that he had limited options at the line. All the considerations of how they play call, what gets read/adjusted at the line go into what they are talking about as part of installing the new scheme.
Ibar_Harry
All Pro
dwilt72 said:
Yes, because the previous coaching staff wanted to run as much time as they could off of the clock. They're entire game strategy was to kill the clock and minimize the number of plays for both teams. Now, its get to the line and see how the defense is set up and counter the defense if necessary. You have to have time to do that. In addition we had a number of penalties for taking too much time. It really makes sense when you look at what the previous staff was doing.
TreWardTxn
Waterboy
I think there are main arguments utilized by (for lack of a better term) the 'pro-Carr as a Texan' camp. Those are, one, he never had the talent around him to succeed, on the O-line or at skill positions, and with the way Boselli worked out, that definetly seems true, and the fans really should have seen this coming. The other main argument is that he never received the proper coaching from a defensive-minded coaching staff that stunted his growth as a QB. Of course there is some merging of these two opinions, but according to which you believe more I think you have to arrive at one of the following conclusions:
1. Carr is ready to show his true merit now, and with the infusion of offensive talent, 2 pro bowl quality receivers and two viable slots (Walters and Bush), a steady and a gamebreaking back, reliable TE, and upgrades to OL coaching and personnel, there is no reason why he shouldn't but up top tier numbers (top 10?) This doesn't mean a lot of wins necessarily, the D has to play too, but there should be no doubt that Carr can be a Super Bowl QB...
2. Even with all the upgrades, Carr was so damaged by the old regime that he needs to be entirely reconstructed as a QB, and we shouldn't expect real results until 2007.
Of course the most apparent comparison is Jake Plummer, who in his first year as a Bronco had decent enough numbers so that the defense could salvage a playoff spot. Remember, the knock on Plummer is that he always tried to do too much and was forcing plays, causing INTs. No one has accussed Carr of that, if anything, he is too careful with the ball and takes unecessary sacks. If this is the real problem, then a better line and better options will bring out his ability.
So what is fair to expect, and by what point should fans know Kubiak made the right choice in keeping Carr?
1. Carr is ready to show his true merit now, and with the infusion of offensive talent, 2 pro bowl quality receivers and two viable slots (Walters and Bush), a steady and a gamebreaking back, reliable TE, and upgrades to OL coaching and personnel, there is no reason why he shouldn't but up top tier numbers (top 10?) This doesn't mean a lot of wins necessarily, the D has to play too, but there should be no doubt that Carr can be a Super Bowl QB...
2. Even with all the upgrades, Carr was so damaged by the old regime that he needs to be entirely reconstructed as a QB, and we shouldn't expect real results until 2007.
Of course the most apparent comparison is Jake Plummer, who in his first year as a Bronco had decent enough numbers so that the defense could salvage a playoff spot. Remember, the knock on Plummer is that he always tried to do too much and was forcing plays, causing INTs. No one has accussed Carr of that, if anything, he is too careful with the ball and takes unecessary sacks. If this is the real problem, then a better line and better options will bring out his ability.
So what is fair to expect, and by what point should fans know Kubiak made the right choice in keeping Carr?
Texansbacker
Waterboy
TreWardTxn said:
I think for Carr to be deemed a success, he will need to show poise in the pocket (provided there is a pocket), make good decisions throwing the football, and provide strong leadership while showing he has matured from the the helmet throwing days and hair growing contests. If Carr does that, and the defense does their job reasonably well, then I think a 7-9 or 8-8 season at minimum.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
In my opinion, Carr's poor play is a result of mainly poor coaching, lame schemes, and completely predictable play calling. The offensive line play hasn't been that good and the WR core has always seems to lack something to make defenses think twice because they may get burned.
But, blaming the offensive line and WRs really won't solve the problem because if you have poor coaching, schemes, and play calling, that will pull the greatest offensive line and WRs down. In other words, great coaching, schemes, and playing calling will make the offensive line and WRs look better and make their jobs easier. It generally doesn't work the other way around.
As for Kubiak buying off that Carr is the quarterback for the Texans, I am a little skeptical. This is his first head coaching job, and what else is he going to say when he knows the owner and GM totally believe in Carr. Both sides in an interview say things they don't mean or believe to get the deal done. The important thing at that point is to get the deal done and work from there. Maybe Kubiak totally believes in Carr, but I also think that is very possible he said certain things to get the job, which is completely understandable.
Kubiak's job will not be a success or failure due to Carr. Kubiak seems too smart to let that happen. That's why I think Carr either needs to have very good stats or the team needs to above .500 by mid season, or Carr will be soon running out of time or chances. Kubiak is not going to be give Carr two years to prove himself, more like 8 games.
That is why Carr needs to work his butt off now because by mid season he could be smelling the beginning of the end with Texans if continues with poor play and the team struggles as a whole.
But, blaming the offensive line and WRs really won't solve the problem because if you have poor coaching, schemes, and play calling, that will pull the greatest offensive line and WRs down. In other words, great coaching, schemes, and playing calling will make the offensive line and WRs look better and make their jobs easier. It generally doesn't work the other way around.
As for Kubiak buying off that Carr is the quarterback for the Texans, I am a little skeptical. This is his first head coaching job, and what else is he going to say when he knows the owner and GM totally believe in Carr. Both sides in an interview say things they don't mean or believe to get the deal done. The important thing at that point is to get the deal done and work from there. Maybe Kubiak totally believes in Carr, but I also think that is very possible he said certain things to get the job, which is completely understandable.
Kubiak's job will not be a success or failure due to Carr. Kubiak seems too smart to let that happen. That's why I think Carr either needs to have very good stats or the team needs to above .500 by mid season, or Carr will be soon running out of time or chances. Kubiak is not going to be give Carr two years to prove himself, more like 8 games.
That is why Carr needs to work his butt off now because by mid season he could be smelling the beginning of the end with Texans if continues with poor play and the team struggles as a whole.
Texansbacker
Waterboy
hollywood_texan said:
Assuming Carr should struggle through preseason and for the first 8 games ( and we use our #1 pick on Bush), that would leave either Sage Rosenfels or Dave Ragone at the controls. Not real reassuring.
TexanFan881
All Pro
Texansbacker said:
Maybe we should sign McNair or Collins then
Tale Gator
________
I hope we draft some sort of competition for him [Barrick Nealy] just in case his play doesn't improve under Kubiak.
I think grabbing someone in the draft along with Sage will help Carr quite a bit in the long run.
I think grabbing someone in the draft along with Sage will help Carr quite a bit in the long run.
Texans86 said:
I appreciate those thoughts. It was one of those quotes where it seems like a good interviewer would know from basic football knowledge when to interrupt with one of those "can you please elaborate?" lines. But that would be way too much to ask from those Chronicle hacks.
Trust me when I say with the utmost confidence that the board will never grow beyond it, considering the vast amount of people who who belong in the "If you don't draft Vince, you're stupid" club, who have sworn to turn in their season tickets, quit being fans, etc. ad nauseum. That isn't to say I'm including you in that prestigious club, aj, but that club does exist!aj. said:
And it will evolve into a different phase of stupid, with two "I told you so" clubs beating each other to death until hell freezes over.
Something we can all look forward to.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
Marcus said:Trust me when I say with the utmost confidence that the board will never grow beyond it, considering the vast amount of people who who belong in the "If you don't draft Vince, you're stupid" club, who have sworn to turn in their season tickets, quit being fans, etc. ad nauseum. That isn't to say I'm including you in that prestigious club, aj, but that club does exist!
And it will evolve into a different phase of stupid, with two "I told you so" clubs beating each other to death until hell freezes over.
Something we can all look forward to.
I can see it now: me 80 and in a retirement home, and Vince and Carr on ESPN 8's "Celebrity Bowling" show, me arguing with the other residents about "how that dern fool Vincent ain't ****" and how Davey's gon kick his ***. Then again I will probably be too high on neural stimulant or watching old Jessica Alba movies to care.
Texanfan4ever
Rookie
Jerek, love your "icon". Is #5 supposed to be Reggie!! Love it!
old football fan
Waterboy
You what I haven't seen any of your names coming up for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Shoot I don't even remember any of you ever playing football on the Pro level or any level for that matter. If you can't walk in a man's shoes then don't put him down.
Ibar_Harry
All Pro
Marcus said:
I don't think anyone wants to get an elaboration of the lines, because it will go back to what the previous coaching staff was doing. There are a lot of hints that things were very wrong. Look at what the previous staff is doing. I think its one of those things they just kind of want to quietly sweep under the sofa and move on. It probably is the best thing in reality. Just enjoy what we have now and let everyone have a chance to prove their worth. I think they will.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
Texanfan4ever said:Jerek, love your "icon". Is #5 supposed to be Reggie!! Love it!
#5 is Reggie. I did a hack Photoshop job on the jersey, which pissed me off because I am better at editing than that but I got tired of it so I left it as is, as well as Moulds retaining the Bills. And thanks.