Sunday's Justice column: Carr driven by 2-14 disaster

[Marcus]

Carr driven by last year's 2-14 disaster

Can y'all do me the utmost favor and read the this column please? Because there is a blurb in there that made me yell out loud, "What the hell?"

Everything is new

"We've started from scratch," Calhoun said, "beginning with how to break the huddle, cadence, calling certain routes."

In other words, everything.

Carr is the key to Kubiak's success. He was his first tough choice, and even after Reggie Bush arrives and even with all the new talent, Carr still has to play better.

"We want to make things clear for him," Calhoun said, "and he's cognizant of the fact that he must play better. I can't emphasize enough how strong his appetite to learn is."

Ask Carr what's different about his new offense and he answers simply.

"I have to do less," he said. "I go through my reads. I look one place. If it's not open, I go to the next read."

He'll be asked to speed up everything, including getting out of the huddle and lining up.

Now, I know I'm dumber than a box of rocks most of the time, but what was he supposed to do before, when the the first read was not open? If the option was to dump it off, how was that "less"?

I don't understand that. Can someone help me with that, please?

 

[texan279]

I really don't like the way the media and others are saying that Carr will be the key to Kubiak's success, I thought Reeves, McNair, and Cass had agreed on keeping Carr as well. And if Carr does fail I really don't see how Kubiak could be blamed.

 

[infantrycak]

I really don't like the way the media and others are saying that Carr will be the key to Kubiak's success, I thought Reeves, McNair, and Cass had agreed on keeping Carr as well. And if Carr does fail I really don't see how Kubiak could be blamed.

Like the article says, keeping Carr (assuming that is the decision as it appears) was Kubiak's 1st and most important decision. Plus he was hired as a QB guru. That image will be severely tarnished if Carr turns in another year like last year.

 

[Wolfiegrrl]

The reason for Carr's quote of him doing less is because further up the page it reads: "The Texans used the first pick of the 2002 draft — the first pick the team had — on Carr. And then they almost guaranteed he would fail. Thanks, Dom Capers. And you, too, Charley Casserly and Bob McNair. Nice work, fellas.

They never protected their young quarterback. They ran a system more complex than some 10-year veterans run. They failed to put enough talent around him. Imagine how good Troy Aikman would have been without Emmitt Smith, Daryl Johnston and Jay Novacek."

Interesting piece though. I'm excited for the season to start.

 

[texan279]

Like the article says, keeping Carr (assuming that is the decision as it appears) was Kubiak's 1st and most important decision. Plus he was hired as a QB guru. That image will be severely tarnished if Carr turns in another year like last year.

All I am saying is how does anyone know Carr is not damaged beyond repair due to the last coaching regime?

 

[Marcus]

I really don't like the way the media and others are saying that Carr will be the key to Kubiak's success, I thought Reeves, McNair, and Cass had agreed on keeping Carr as well. And if Carr does fail I really don't see how Kubiak could be blamed.

Well, as much as I detest participating in any sort of blame game, I will say this. I don't think Kubiak would have felt comfortable being the HC if he couldn't decide who he wanted for quarterback. It was Kubiak's choice. I'm confident of that.

 

[infantrycak]

All I am saying is how does anyone know Carr is not damaged beyond repair due to the last coaching regime?

We don't but presumably Kubiak has considered that and made the judgment that Carr is not and can be improved. I'm not saying it is entirely fair, but with QB's being his forte plus the opportunity to have had a phenominal talent like VY, a failure to get a dramatic improvement out of Carr will be held against him.

 

[texan279]

Well, as much as I detest participating in any sort of blame game, I will say this. I don't think Kubiak would have felt comfortable being the HC if he couldn't decide who he wanted for quarterback. It was Kubiak's choice. I'm confident of that.

I agree, I am just worried about the possible damage done to Carr over the last 4 seasons. But if Carr does fail, I hope the fans don't try to chase Kubiak out of towns with pitchforks like some have wanted to do with others in the organization in the past. Now if we don't see improvement from the team in the next couple of seasons then I'll start "blaming" Kubiak.

 

[Lucky]

They ran a system more complex than some 10-year veterans run.

Huh? The "system" was so complex, fans knew what play was going to be run prior to the snap. Not to mention the opposing defense. Easily the most predictable NFL offense I've ever seen. But it was complex, Richard? Right.

I guess this is the obliquitory kiss & makeup article after Justice has slammed Carr since the Rose Bowl. Talk about predictable.

 

[Marcus]

The reason for Carr's quote of him doing less is because further up the page it reads: "The Texans used the first pick of the 2002 draft — the first pick the team had — on Carr. And then they almost guaranteed he would fail. Thanks, Dom Capers. And you, too, Charley Casserly and Bob McNair. Nice work, fellas.

I still don't understand that quote. It implied that he wasn't supposed to look for an alternate receiver if the primary wasn't open. Maybe I'm just taking it out of context or something, but man, I just found that to be very strange.

 

[Buffi2]

That image will be severely tarnished if Carr turns in another year like last year.

Carr having another year like last year is sooo not possible-surely even the law of averages is against that. Given the new coaching, his new work ethic, new players and new plays plus the fact that he knows this is his last chance or he might as well go sell football uniforms to pop warner leagues - he has to be better than 2-14. I think he will be much better - but - worse case scenario - he will be good enough and the running game will take us to a winning season...or close.

 

[thunderkyss]

Carr driven by last year's 2-14 disaster

"We want to make things clear for him," Calhoun said, "and he's cognizant of the fact that he must play better. I can't emphasize enough how strong his appetite to learn is."

Ask Carr what's different about his new offense and he answers simply.

"I have to do less," he said. "I go through my reads. I look one place. If it's not open, I go to the next read."

Now, I know I'm dumber than a box of rocks most of the time, but what was he supposed to do before, when the the first read was not open? If the option was to dump it off, how was that "less"?

I don't understand that. Can someone help me with that, please?

That was Carr saying he will do less....... Maybe he felt he was supposed to do something... by time, make a play..... ??

What gets me, is that Calhoun says Carr has got to play better. I don't understand why I and others get slammed all the time, when we talk about the things Carr isn't doing as well as he should(heck, i've been accused of making things up). We're not talking about INTs, or the Majority of the sacks, but the things he is doing, that he shouldn't be.

Of course we criticize his play, at least I do, because I want to draft another QB. We've got problems at QB, let's consider drafting a QB with the #1 overall. There's some sweet talent at the top of this draft, at the QB position.

But it's ok to draft a RB with the #1 overall...... but we don't have a problem @ running back..... we don't, or we didn't. Yes, DD got hurt from time to time..... but we had wells, and we have Morency....... the only problem here, is they aren't threats to score if you're on the wrong side of the 50.

I really don't like the way the media and others are saying that Carr will be the key to Kubiak's success, I thought Reeves, McNair, and Cass had agreed on keeping Carr as well. And if Carr does fail I really don't see how Kubiak could be blamed.

The same way they blamed Capers, Palmer, and Pendry, but Carr comes out un-scathed.....

All I am saying is how does anyone know Carr is not damaged beyond repair due to the last coaching regime?

I see what you're saying now......

maybe they'll be saying Kubiak bit off more than he could chew, and should have known better.

I still don't understand that quote. It implied that he wasn't supposed to look for an alternate receiver if the primary wasn't open. Maybe I'm just taking it out of context or something, but man, I just found that to be very strange.

Carr's been criticized for staring down his target..... I think that may have been because he thought he was supposed to make something out of nothing. Now, he's being told to move on.

Carr having another year like last year is sooo not possible-surely even the law of averages is against that. Given the new coaching, his new work ethic, new players and new plays plus the fact that he knows this is his last chance or he might as well go sell football uniforms to pop warner leagues - he has to be better than 2-14. I think he will be much better - but - worse case scenario - he will be good enough and the running game will take us to a winning season...or close.

It's not the 2-14 season that Carr is being judged by, but the way he played in that 2-14 effort. He looked as bad as our linemen looking for someone to block.

 

[texan279]

The same way they blamed Capers, Palmer, and Pendry, but Carr comes out un-scathed.....

The only coach from the old regime that has a job right now elsewhere is Capers, and with all of the coaches being fired, quitting, and moving around this past season in the NFL, Pendry, Palmer, and Fangio still being unemployed should tell you something.

 

[Lucky]

...Pendry, Palmer, and Fangio still being unemployed should tell you something.

Palmer got an assistant job in Dallas.

 

[texan279]

Palmer got an assistant job in Dallas.

You're right, I forgot, Pendry and Fangio are still jobless though.

 

[thunderkyss]

You're right, I forgot, Pendry and Fangio are still jobless though.

I'd have fired Pendry before I fired Palmer...... not that Palmer was doing a stellar job or anything.

 

[Erratic Assassin]

...I will say this.

Is that you Coach Capers?

 

[Runner]

Huh? The "system" was so complex, fans knew what play was going to be run prior to the snap. Not to mention the opposing defense. Easily the most predictable NFL offense I've ever seen. But it was complex, Richard? Right.

The first 3 years had a lot of reading and adjusting during offensive plays. Last year was simplified to almost nothing.

 

[blockhead83]

Marcus, my take on it from that little blurb that could very well be taken out of context is that Carr meant in the past he'd watch the primary receiver to see if he came open, even if he wasn't immediately open, and then if he didn't he dumped it down. Not the best thing to do in the world, but I think that's what Carr was implying.

 

[thegr8fan]

"We want to make things clear for him," Calhoun said, "and he's cognizant of the fact that he must play better. I can't emphasize enough how strong his appetite to learn is."

finally, a Coach identifies the fact of what alot of us say about Carr.

Course we are only MB people and know nothing, its obviously ALL the O-lines fault.

 

[Ibar_Harry]

The whole offensive scheme was a mess with the QB left to figure out what was happening. I firmly believe the coaches wanted the ball to be in AJ's hands at all cost. I believe they even said that on a couple of occasions. I believe AJ was to break his routes for example to come back to the QB when the QB was in trouble. That was one of the reason Carr ran out of bounds a lot. He was looking for help from a receiver and was buying time by leaving the pocket. They are going to minimize that activity.

You can go back to the notes before the senior bowl and read about how Carr has excellent footwork, but not anymore. I think just as our defense was a nightfare for the players to understand, so was the offense. I don't think the staff trusted any players other than AJ and DD and perhaps Gaffny.

They were focused on not making a mistake and keeping it close to the 4th qtr. I would assume many of you remember those lines. As I have been saying for some time, our current staff will not say how bad the previous staff was, but you can certainly read between the lines based on comments from our players and our new coaches. DON'T BE ASTONISHED BY SOME OF WHAT YOU THINK WOULD BE GIVENS. The old staff and what they taught was that bad. I believe they literally destroyed the careers of some of our players.

 

[Marcus]

Marcus, my take on it from that little blurb that could very well be taken out of context is that Carr meant in the past he'd watch the primary receiver to see if he came open, even if he wasn't immediately open, and then if he didn't he dumped it down. Not the best thing to do in the world, but I think that's what Carr was implying.

So what he was saying, basically, was to look at the primary receiver, and if he wasn't open, then wait until he got open, then if he still didn't get open, then dump it off.

If that's indeed what he was saying, then how in the world could Carr be blamed for locking in on his receivers, if that was what he was supposed to do?

I must still be taking it all out of context. There's no way he could have been instructed to do that.

 

[aj.]

You can go back to the notes before the senior bowl and read about how Carr has excellent footwork, but not anymore. .

Carr has never had excellent (or even good) footwork since I've been watching him. I've often thought he could benefit from a few hours on a dance mat or some Tom Brady film -- anything that could break him from that looonnnnng stride as he tries to escape the collapsing pocket. Nifty and nimble afoot inside a 10 foot circle he is not. On the occasions when he does break clean, then yes, he can run pretty well. Please, now I don't want to hear about how Palmer coached his good feet out of him...

 

[infantrycak]

Carr has never had excellent (or even good) footwork since I've been watching him. I've often thought he could benefit from a few hours on a dance mat or some Tom Brady film -- anything that could break him from that looonnnnng stride as he tries to escape the collapsing pocket. Nifty and nimble afoot inside a 10 foot circle he is not. On the occasions when he does break clean, then yes, he can run pretty well. Please, now I don't want to hear about how Palmer coached his good feet out of him...

Yup--the footwork they were talking about in the Senior Bowl notes was on his drops not in movement around the pocket under pressure.

 

[GP]

Capers' style of football put Carr in a position to basically run the play that Capers' crew would call...and that stinks when you're the QB and as soon as the play hits the huddle, you think to yourself, "This play will never work..."

Then, you have to MAKE it work...and as the play happens, things go just about as bad as you anticipated and YOU look like the big goober when it's really the fault of an outdated coaching staff.

EXAMPLE: Every game but the first half of the Cardinals game...when Carr was allowed to dictate the playcalling on a larger scale than he had been. Carr believes in himself, but only now will he be able to fully explore his own talent and display the skills that he has proven to possess.

How soon you all forget that this is a guy who ran downfield after coming back from major shoulder injury (when Banks went down)...only to take a big hit (instead of sliding) and writhe in pain because his shoulder wasn't fully healed at the time. How soon you forget that despite the shoddy pass protection, he would often use his legs and get us key first downs, and even a score or two. How soon you forget that he juked a Saints player out of his jock and single-handedly scored a very wicked rushing TD a few seasons ago...few QBs could do that. How soon you forget how he led our team back against KC a few seasons ago when Coleman's interception sparked our comeback. How soon you forget the over-the-top dive against Jacksonville with no time on the clock...a pretty gutsy play for a young QB against a heated rival in a very tight ballgame in front of the hometown fans. How soon you forget that this guy has taken a royal beating on an expansion team which is JUST NOW beginning to look more like a real NFL team. How soon you forget that his wife took a beer bath AT HOME. I could go on, but you get the drift. Friggin Bennie Joppru gets better treatment from you guys than a guy who has been on the field and who has taken a beating for OUR team.

You guys are so driven to see success that you fail to see that our team's QB has the confidence of our new head coach, even if he doesn't have "your" confidence. And yet you seem to actively root against him with hateful talk. I have criticized him, and his leadership, but I have never ever ignored the fact that he's put up with a bunch of horse crap that's not justified...and he's done it in the midst of being part of a clown act coaching staff whose rear was saved for an entire season JUST because the owner is a class guy.

When are some of you going to stop the diatribe and actually (GASP!) support our guy for even a little while? Bring out the long knives if he's failing by week four or five and it's obvious that he's not fitting the team...but geez, give the guy an ounce of respect.

 

[aj.]

I notice the convenient disclaimer that it will take him "several months" to get familiar with the system. I recall going to Denver in '04 and seeing a pretty comfy Plummer tearing up the Texans in Week 7 or whatever it was. ---edit .... why was I thinking '04 was Plummer's first year there? Oh well, so much for that theory.

Fast track it David. I'm ready to see some of this untapped potential. If the playbook reminds you of what you saw in college then you should have no trouble...

 

[Ibar_Harry]

Carr has never had excellent (or even good) footwork since I've been watching him. I've often thought he could benefit from a few hours on a dance mat or some Tom Brady film -- anything that could break him from that looonnnnng stride as he tries to escape the collapsing pocket. Nifty and nimble afoot inside a 10 foot circle he is not. On the occasions when he does break clean, then yes, he can run pretty well. Please, now I don't want to hear about how Palmer coached his good feet out of him...

AJ people have been posting the quotes during his senior bowl appearance and the foot work comments were from that forum. We could both nit pick on a lot of these things, but lets both agree that a lot of damage was done by the former staff either not fixing something or teaching what would be at best debatable technique on both offense and defense.

Despite some of the comments being plasterd all over this board I'm extemely optomistic about this coming year. I don't really care about what people have done in the past, becasue we have a new coaching staff who know how to play the game both offensively and defensively, know how to teach the fundamentals, know how to break down film and see what people are doing, and know how and are willing to work with people to correct their faults. I truely trust this staff to do the right thing.

What I wanted most after last season was Mr. McNair to go out and get the best coaching staff he could. He has done that as far as I'm concerned. The pickups in FA are simply an extension of that. Everyone is going to benefit from the coaching decisions. Posters seem to be absorbed with what appear to be strange comments from players and coaches requarding what people have been doing. They should not be, because of what our previous staff was.

I think the points of the posts in this thread are that AJ is no different in many ways than Carr or DROB. We think they all can be a lot better and lets see what happens under the new coaching staff. I would hope all of our players can get a lot better and we can all say see you at the SB this year. By the way, I think we will suprise a whole lot of people this year. DON'T under estimate the ability of our players and coaches.

 

[GP]

We all agree that Capers and his style of ball had gotten pretty bad...bad enough to have 99.999% of us call for his head at about week five.

Yet we exclude him from blame in regards to Carr. Capers didn't go out there and let defenders get to Carr, but he might as well have been guilty of it himself for the playcalling and overall ineptitude of his staff.

McNair and Reeves allowed Carr a chance to show what he can do (Cardinals game)...and they decided (along with Kubiak) that Carr gets the start until he shows he doesn't deserve it.

My money is on Carr.

 

[Mike Kerns]

Even some of the people who believe the Texans should take Vince Young — that
would be me — freely admit they have no idea how good Carr can be.

Rich Lord & Richard Justice = :brickwall

 

[aj.]

I believe these two things are true: 1) The absence of a real QB coach (that was supposed to be Palmer's job early - then later the Greg Roman debacle) was not the best arrangement and it probably retarded DCs growth as a NFL QB, and 2) Carr is not without fault and it's not all on the coaches or due to the absence of an effective o-line or system. I see things in DCs game that I believe transcend those issues, i.e., pocket awareness for one, but I'm pulling him to succeed because I want the Texans to be successful and I have no real choice in the matter.

 

[Ibar_Harry]

Here is more from the same section.

"We've started from scratch," Calhoun said, "beginning with how to break the huddle, cadence, calling certain routes."

In other words, everything.

Carr is the key to Kubiak's success. He was his first tough choice, and even after Reggie Bush arrives and even with all the new talent, Carr still has to play better.

"We want to make things clear for him," Calhoun said, "and he's cognizant of the fact that he must play better. I can't emphasize enough how strong his appetite to learn is."

Ask Carr what's different about his new offense and he answers simply.

"I have to do less," he said. "I go through my reads. I look one place. If it's not open, I go to the next read."

He'll be asked to speed up everything, including getting out of the huddle and lining up.

It'll be months before he's comfortable in the new system.

Its kind of interesting because in the beginning he said a lot of it was similar to what he ran at Fresno State. If that's true then why should it be a long time as stated in Justice's article. Perhaps another interpretation on his part.

Oh, well, on to some other points. In Texas Holdem you watch the eyes of the other players and what they are doing until its time to look at your cards. At least that's what the good ones do. Getting out of the huddle and to the line quicker is suggestive of lets see what the other folks are showing and counter if we need to. Need to have time to do it particularly if you are going to open all options. That means if you were running you might go to a pass play. Heaven forbid that would be a new thought.

It means they are going to be trusting Carr to be doing more out of the basic setups. They are saying get to the line so you have enough time to make the necessary decisions. This is not a Capers-Pendry style of offense. Kubiak knows the QB on the field has to be the field general. The QB has to be the one reacting and to the changes on the field. If you can't trust your leader, there's no sense playing him. Carr showed in the one game he can call the plays. I think Kubiak is going to give him more freedom to do that, but is going to hold him responsible for calling the right plays.

Something else it means is we will no longer be trying to kill the clock from the huddle. Everything Carr has been doing is really the result of the previous staff whether we like it or not. All you have to do is look at what they are saying and it makes real sense from the way the previous staff looked at things.

Carr is a willing student and I think he has always been such. I think the real problem was there was nothing to be taught because no one could make any realy changes on the field either offensively or defensively in the old system. That was a do it by the book ball club devoid of any thinking. That's why when things didn't work there was nobody who could make any adjustments. Everything I have know about him is that he is a coaches player. He does not question the coaches and does what they ask. That's another reason I'm so adiment about how bad our coaches were.

We have a long way to go, but I like what I hear and see about what is happening. I may cringe here and there, but I really want to see what happens when we have a minicamp. I want to see Moulds, AJ, all the other receivers and Carr working out before TC. I want Carr to know his receivers like the back of his hand. As has been said so often, he has to let the game come to him. He has to focus on all of his receivers, not just a few(1). The old staff didn't want any mistakes and couldn't tolerate any. To get better you have to make mistakes if you are going to improve your timing and understanding of the NFL game.

Read and think about what is being said and then look at what the previous staff was doing. Most of the comments will make a great deal of sense. Here's to a great year. Go TEXAAAANNNS......

 

[infantrycak]

Carr is a willing student and I think he has always been such. I think the real problem was there was nothing to be taught because no one could make any realy changes on the field either offensively or defensively in the old system. That was a do it by the book ball club devoid of any thinking. That's why when things didn't work there was nobody who could make any adjustments.

Well to put that in Texans' perspective, it seems to me it is a fair observation that there are numerous examples of the past coaching staff having a set idea of what they wanted and trying to force players into their system without real concern for the strengths of the players. I see no reason to believe that wasn't the case with Carr as with other players. That doesn't absolve Carr of responsibility for what has happened by any means, but puts Carr in the category of other assets which were not fully developed/utilized.

 

[DominickDavisFan76]

Like the article says, keeping Carr (assuming that is the decision as it appears) was Kubiak's 1st and most important decision. Plus he was hired as a QB guru. That image will be severely tarnished if Carr turns in another year like last year.

Carr has even said on an interview, when they played against the seahawks on sunday night football, that he doesnt understand why they arent doing better, because he feels like he is getting better but the results arent getting better, so with a good O Line, and a better backfield expect the Texans O to sky rocket, and plus, with a 2-14 season having 14 TD and 11 Int. isnt that bad, so I say that Carr will be the man to lead the texans to the game of all games and come away with a well maybe not yet but maybe.....

 

[Ibar_Harry]

Well to put that in Texans' perspective, it seems to me it is a fair observation that there are numerous examples of the past coaching staff having a set idea of what they wanted and trying to force players into their system without real concern for the strengths of the players. I see no reason to believe that wasn't the case with Carr as with other players. That doesn't absolve Carr of responsibility for what has happened by any means, but puts Carr in the category of other assets which were not fully developed/utilized.

I agree and that's why I also feel, based on what we know as of today, that it is on Carr's shoulders now. I do believe the WR coor was a lot worse than we think, but just as importantly the coaching and their perspective of the game and our team stunk. I keep saying I think this is going to be an exciting year for the Texans. The one caviat as always, 2nd year is a good example, is injuries. However, based on what we are hearing even the previous staff's training methods may have had something to do with the injuries. Lets hope that's true as well and that all of the bad stuff is behind us.

GOOOOOO TEXAAAAANNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

 

[Texas]

Hasn't Kubiak already proved hes a good coach? As for Carr only time will tell.

 

[sakebomb]

Yes Carr has struggled but so has the entire team. I think the guy was handcuffed. We have seen flashes of brillance from him but we have also seen horrible play as well. I think the majority of the problem lies on the past coaching staff and an overall lack of talent on the offense.

How many of our past offensive guys would/could start for the majority of other teams. Of course AJ would be on that list. Davis would be on the list as well but he would start for a lot less teams. Other than that I don't think anyone else (remember I said majority of the other teams). Most of our past offensive players aren't even in the league anymore. Here's a list of a few.

James Allen
Avion Black
Jajuan Dawson
Jermaine Lewis
Jabari Holloway
Billy Miller
Stacey Mack
Tony Hollings

Of course the other WR Stonehands Bradford and Gaffney. Of course this list does not include the Offensive Line. I'm sure that list is just as long. I truly believe that it would have been difficult for any quarterback to be successful with our teams of the past. I'm hoping Kubiak and the rest of the staff shows all of the positions how to be winners.

 

[Texans86]

I just thought of something in relation to the Carr quote most people didn't like in the article.

"I have to do less," he said. "I go through my reads. I look one place. If it's not open, I go to the next read."

"I have to do less," That quite possibly means he doesn't have to force a throw. He doesn't have to think too much like he did last year. He has options other than AJ. Less thinking, more instinct. End of thought.

"I go through my reads. I look one place, if it's not open, I go to the next read." He never said he doesn't do that now. He's just emphasizing what he is going to do. Again, I think he means he has less thinking to do, and more basic football instincts. He doesn't have to think about getting run over in 1.5 sec., or worry about his recievers who consistantly drop balls or don't turn around for them. Also, he might get to call an audible that doesn't involve running to the left side. I think the media can take certain quotes out of context and twist the words to make them have a certain connotation.

Anyway, that's my few thoughts for the morning.

 

[jerek]

I still can't help but notice the disparity in criticisms of Carr that are subsequently followed by praise borderlining leg humping of Vince Young.

So the coaches utilized the worst, most predictable offense in the NFL ... and that's Carr's fault (according to TK and others, Carr was supposed to make all kinds of great plays). But Mack Brown dumbs down the offense to a zone-read shotgun for VY and surrounds him with one of the best recruiting classes in the nation ... and that's coaching genius.

Well, no ****. Great coaches put their players in a position to succeed: they utilize their talents. Great coaches build all-round teams. Our coaches last year did neither. What about the Texans offense last year put any of our players in a position to succeed?

As much as I don't want to wish ill will on Vince Young, I hope he goes to a bad team with awful coaches and the worst O-line in the league, with one decent receiver and an injured starting running back. I would love to see what Vince Young can do in the NFL in those circumstances. I would love to see how far you would go to defend the guy then. Or maybe just find a new mancrush, either/or.

And no, Carr is not without fault, he made his mistakes, and he sure as hell has things to work on. It just amazes me and is beginning to piss me off the level of stupidity I am still reading on here in April about "Carr sucks, but Vince Young never loses anything."

Okay, got that out of my system now. Carry on.

 

[Malloy]

I've heard Carr talk about him wanting to do too much in the past, this could mean that he's being tought to do... less of that (less of too much..). Dunno, it's just my guess

 

[infantrycak]

Now, I know I'm dumber than a box of rocks most of the time, but what was he supposed to do before, when the the first read was not open? If the option was to dump it off, how was that "less"?

I don't understand that. Can someone help me with that, please?

My guess is you have a quote which looks funny because it is somewhat out of context--it really isn't about reads, it is about Carr's comfort level. Kubiak in speaking about Carr has on several occasions said Carr has to learn not to try to carry the team and do too much so they need to give him assets and build his confidence in the people and system around him. This quote from Carr sounds to me like the result of Kubiak/Calhoun saying calm down, let the OL do its job, let the receivers do their job, you just keep making your reads--don't try to make things happen by forcing throws or using your feet to rush rather than buy time.

 

[rafterticket]

I still don't understand that quote. It implied that he wasn't supposed to look for an alternate receiver if the primary wasn't open. Maybe I'm just taking it out of context or something, but man, I just found that to be very strange.

What do you not get? He means they drafted him, gave him one good running back and one good receiver. No real TE threat, no OL, and no second or third wideout to look at. Heck, they even cut Billy Miller, which might have made sense on a better team, but not that one.

Then the Carr-haters come out in force. I'm pretty sure that is the basic gist of the statement.

 

[rafterticket]

Friggin Bennie Joppru gets better treatment from you guys than a guy who has been on the field and who has taken a beating for OUR team.

Excellent post.

 

[thunderkyss]

I still can't help but notice the disparity in criticisms of Carr that are subsequently followed by praise borderlining leg humping of Vince Young.

So the coaches utilized the worst, most predictable offense in the NFL ... and that's Carr's fault (according to TK and others, Carr was supposed to make all kinds of great plays).

Later on in this post, you say Carr is not without fault, and he has somethings to work on. All I've ever said, was the same thing. Except after four years, I'm tired of seeing it........ actually if there was no QB in the draft that I'd rather watch develop, I could probably take another year. As it turns out, I'd rather watch Vince as a Texan.
If David has time to make it to the sideline, I think he has time to make a great play, if something is open, or throw the ball away.... If I see a pocket, David with time, then he leaves the pocket for no good reason, and runs right into a sack..... when the rush is coming, and I see Carr hit the ground before he is touched, and curl up into a little ball......... I must say I'm embarassed. I understand securing the ball, and preparing yourself for a hit, but this isn't the same thing. I don't think David is particularly good at going through his progression.
And when you tell everyone that you'll be going to 1 step, and 3 step drops, and your QB appears to be the only one who doesn't understand what that means......... sheeesshhh. 1,2,3 throw the ball.... 1, throw the ball..... how hard is it. The ball should hit the reciever, or it should hit one of the fans..

I do agree, that David has had good games, here and there, but I don't think he's as consistent as he should be.

Trust me, Dante is my favorite QB right now, and talent wise & ability, I think McNabb is hard to beat...... but I'm harder on both of those guys than I am on Carr.

But Mack Brown dumbs down the offense to a zone-read shotgun for VY and surrounds him with one of the best recruiting classes in the nation ... and that's coaching genius.

Alot of those guys were first year players, or first year starters. Playing teams full of Seniors, so I think you're making more of that than what it is. Chris Simms, Chance Mock.... they didn't intrigue me as much as VY.

Well, no ****. Great coaches put their players in a position to succeed: they utilize their talents. Great coaches build all-round teams. Our coaches last year did neither. What about the Texans offense last year put any of our players in a position to succeed?

So before we can judge Carr, he'll need to have a great coach, a great offensive line, 2 great recievers, 2 great running backs, a great tight end, and a great defense....... shoot, I could be a great QB on that team.

As much as I don't want to wish ill will on Vince Young, I hope he goes to a bad team with awful coaches and the worst O-line in the league, with one decent receiver and an injured starting running back. I would love to see what Vince Young can do in the NFL in those circumstances. I would love to see how far you would go to defend the guy then. Or maybe just find a new mancrush, either/or.

he's got 4 years...... after that, I'll be pushing to get him out of the league.

And no, Carr is not without fault, he made his mistakes, and he sure as hell has things to work on. It just amazes me and is beginning to piss me off the level of stupidity I am still reading on here in April about "Carr sucks, but Vince Young never loses anything."

Careful now........ I might think you're calling me stupid.

Okay, got that out of my system now. Carry on.

 

[Texansbacker]

Carr has not developed as hoped due to poor coaching, poor play by the offensive line, poor play by the wide receivers and poor play by the tightends. The running game, (mainly Dominck Davis) has been successful (when healthy) and also contributed greatly to the passing game. I would think there are few disagreements with this statement.

Enter new head coach, Gary Kubiak, with an offensive pedigree.
Enter Pro Bowl lineman, Mike Flannigan, to help secure the middle of the o-line.
Enter Pro Bowl wideout, Eric Moulds, to help take pressure off Andre Johnson.
Enter Jeb Putzier, a young TE who is experienced in the Kubiak system.

Looking good so far at addressing the problems.

However, all changes are for naught if Carr does not progress in his development. I hope that he will but I would rather hedge my bet with another top QB, by taking a Vince Young or Matt Leinhart, than add another running back to an already successful running attack. Some say we can't tie that much money up in the QB position but that is exactly what we will be doing at RB if we take Reggie Bush since DD just signed a big deal last year.

But then again, DD has an injury history and Bush is one of the highest rated runningback prospects able to break the big ones. Although, if Carr does turn out to be as good as advertised, along with the free agent solutions, combined with the previously sucessful running game........ then perhaps it is not an offensive draft pick the Texans should be pondering at all and select DE Mario Williams!

Glad it is not my decision!

 

[chuckm]

If David has time to make it to the sideline, I think he has time to make a great play, if something is open, or throw the ball away.... If I see a pocket, David with time, then he leaves the pocket for no good reason, and runs right into a sack..... when the rush is coming, and I see Carr hit the ground before he is touched, and curl up into a little ball......... I must say I'm embarassed.

So before we can judge Carr, he'll need to have a great coach, a great offensive line, 2 great recievers, 2 great running backs, a great tight end, and a great defense....... shoot, I could be a great QB on that team.

Oh TK, I'm always amused when I read your posts about Carr. I can't help but think that they're fueled by your desire to see Young as a Texan.

I offer the following post, that you yourself made about Carr prior to the end of last season, as speculative proof ..

(posted on 11-28-2005)
I mean we could have much worse than Carr. The kids got an arm, he's got the will to win, and he's not stupid. I think Carr can be doing alot better than the Houston Texans, and he'd be stupid(though I'd love it) if he decided to stay in Houston. The QB is not the problem, and that is one position you don't want to be trying to fill, while you are building a team.

I saw in this game, what I thought I was going to see all year. A team that was competitive, and explosive. DD had a good game, Wells was awesome, Andre is a stud, and he showed it..........Gafney didn't have his best game, if he did......we'd have won. Carr looked great, and I do mean Great, and the O-Line looked really good.

 

[TEXANRED]

Nifty and nimble afoot inside a 10 foot circle he is not. On the occasions when he does break clean, then yes, he can run pretty well. Please, now I don't want to hear about how Palmer coached his good feet out of him...

Short memories the Carr haters have....Year two against the Saints when he ran the ball in from the two yard line and broke the ankles of the DB. You dont remember when Carr gave the guy the double juke move?

Doesn't he lead AFC QB's in rushing every year?

I disagree with you, don't make me give you a negative response. J/K

 

[aj.]

Short memories the Carr haters have....Year two against the Saints when he ran the ball in from the two yard line and broke the ankles of the DB. You dont remember when Carr gave the guy the double juke move?

Doesn't he lead AFC QB's in rushing every year?

I disagree with you, don't make me give you a negative response. J/K

Nice job to quickly generalize me in the Carr hater group because I said he's not nifty in the pocket. My wife snores (not really) so does that mean I hate her too?

Yes, I remember the New Orleans game, I was there with 70,000 drunk cajuns and a rat the size of a St. Bernard. Was that move in the pocket or after he was flushed out to the left and ran about 10 yards or whatever it was? Read more carefully. Like I said in my last 100 posts about Carr, I hope he does well because if he does it means the Texans will do well.

I happen to think that Vince will be a better weapon than DC in three years. That doesn't mean I have manlove brokeback leg humping visions of Vince either. (as an aside, can we get past those old and worn out descriptors while we're at it?) People really can criticize players without hating them. I worry about Vince's accuracy throwing into tight spots. So there. Dammm now I'm going to hear it from the VY lovers.

This whole Carr VY hater/lover crap on this board sux and it's beyond stupid. I can't wait until the board grows beyond it. Maybe it will happen after the draft but then I'm afraid it will just enter a different phase of stupid.

 

[TEXANRED]

if there was no QB in the draft that I'd rather watch develop, I could probably take another year. As it turns out, I'd rather watch Vince as a Texan.

I think the only hole in the Vince Young/David Carr debate is if people are really tired of Carr and think he is a bust then they would be squacking for Matt Lienart. The second best player and best QB in the draft.

Young is not even one of the top 5 players in the draft. Depending on teams who are picking from 6-10 and what they need Young may even fall out of the top 10.

I forsee Young going to the Raiders. That would be ideal for him. You have two stud receivers in Moss and Porter and a hell of a good running back with Jordan and he has a good O-line with, whats his name, Galloway?

Young's best chance for success lies in Oakland.

Of course that is my opinion.

 

[thunderkyss]

Oh TK, I'm always amused when I read your posts about Carr. I can't help but think that they're fueled by your desire to see Young as a Texan.

I offer the following post, that you yourself made about Carr prior to the end of last season, as speculative proof ..

I'm up front and honest about why I dog Carr...... I want Vince.

Because he's from Houston?? I doubt there's anything I can say to make you think otherwise.

here's some homework for you. Try to find one post where I've said anything bad about any Texan....... I'm a Homer, and I'll defend Buchanon, Miford, Gaffney, Bradford, Babin, and Peek.

If Vince wasn't in this draft, I wouldn't be here ragging on Carr.......
Put Peyton, Donavan, Dante, or even Carson Palmer in this draft, and I'd be doing the same thing to David.
Put Hasselback, Brunnel, Brad Johnson, Drew Bledsoe, Jake Plummer, or John Kitna in the draft, and I'd just as soon stay with Carr.
If I had any of this last group of QBs in their first 4 years, I'd have wanted to draft Vince, with the exception of Kitna, or Plummer, because I thought they were as exciting as I see Vince now. Even watching them on bad teams.


but I've never said anything that wasn't true.

 

[TEXANRED]

Nice job to quickly generalize me in the Carr hater group because I said he's not nifty in the pocket. My wife snores (not really) so does that mean I hate her too?

I apologize if generalizing you in the Carr hater catagory was abit quick. Tad bit shell shocked these days. I also remember the VOF that you wrote about how great Vince Young is so, wrong or right, I immediatly put you into the Vince Young lover/Carr hater camp. It seems if you are a Young fan then all of a sudden these fans are under the opinion Carr is the second coming of Mcguire and Vince Young is on next years HOF ballet. Sorry again if I am wrong.