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Stop blaming O'Brien and start blaming the ownership and management

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
There's been plenty of reports of him treating people like crap. We even had him firing all the non football black people! I mean wow. But you know Boston is regularly considered the most racist city
Good lord you're reaching hard now.

Its okay to hate the guy as a HC for whatever reasons you have. Lord knows I have wanted him gone, but all of this stuff you keep coming up with aside from it is more if a reflection on you more than anything else. I mean making comparisons to terrorists and throwing out the race card to potentially suggest that he's racist in a sport where black men are employed all over the place. At some point you have to provide some other content other than "I hate O'Brien" along with all of the extra stuff you're now adding to his personal life. None of that is going to get him closer to being fired at the end of the day. You pretty much have to root for the Texans to lose at this point.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
The second was Stills and you know it and yeah if you look at the going rate of LTs he is worth 20 million. Also please tell me what teams that have signed a LT in the last year got a better one for less? Again you didn't answer my question, if we had drafted him what would it have cost us? Or if you didn't want him period, fair enough, where were you going to get a pro bowl LT or hell for that matter a LT that allowed only 3 sacks?
Stills sucks.

Most LTs were simply drafted with one pick. Or they were signed as free agents (Brandon Brooks and Ben Jones come to mind).

Nobody out there paying 2 first rounders and not even signing him long term beforehand. Plus giving him massive leverage to get overpaid.
 
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TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Post some proof of that if you are going to make such claims.

In the complaint, Pope, who is African American, says he and other employees of the same race were “being singled out/targeted.”

“In short, every African American in the building understood that not too many of us could congregate or be seen interacting with each other even during lunch because it did not look good to the powers that be,” Pope wrote in his complaint, according to USA Today. "I believe I was discriminated against and terminated on the basis of my race and color."


Pope's attorney said they tried to negotiate a fair severance package with the Texans, but the team decline to engage in the process.


 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Good lord you're reaching hard now.

Its okay to hate the guy as a HC for whatever reasons you have. Lord knows I have wanted him gone, but all of this stuff you keep coming up with aside from it is more if a reflection on you more than anything else. I mean making comparisons to terrorists and throwing out the race card to potentially suggest that he's racist in a sport where black men are employed all over the place. At some point you have to provide some other content other than "I hate O'Brien" along with all of the extra stuff you're now adding to his personal life. None of that is going to get him closer to being fired at the end of the day. You pretty much have to root for the Texans to lose at this point.
I think we all have plenty of on the field and front office content to want O'Brien fired.

Are there any reasons to keep him?
 
Stills sucks.

Most LTs were simply drafted with one pick. Or they were signed as free agents (Brandon Brooks and Ben Jones come to mind).

Nobody out there paying 2 first rounders and not even signing him long term beforehand. Plus giving him massive leverage to get overpaid.
Incorrect and based on nothing but your bias.

Still: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StilKe00.htm

Fuller: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FullWi01.htm

Hopkins: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HopkDe00.htm

He had as good a year as Fuller and not as good as Hopkins but then if you bar for not sucking is Hopkins then there are only maybe 6 receivers in the NFL that don't suck. Stills was solid for a first season on a team and well worth a 2nd round.

As for as no one paying that for a player and not signing them to a long term deal the Rams say hi.

In the complaint, Pope, who is African American, says he and other employees of the same race were “being singled out/targeted.”

“In short, every African American in the building understood that not too many of us could congregate or be seen interacting with each other even during lunch because it did not look good to the powers that be,” Pope wrote in his complaint, according to USA Today. "I believe I was discriminated against and terminated on the basis of my race and color."


Pope's attorney said they tried to negotiate a fair severance package with the Texans, but the team decline to engage in the process.


You are reaching so far I'm amazed your arm hasn't fallen off. The only person named in that lawsuit was Gaine and you are basing your ENTIRE argument on the point of view of the guy filing the lawsuit. You're not even trying to look at things objectively and logically any more are you?
 

TheKDog

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Incorrect and based on nothing but your bias.

Still: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StilKe00.htm

Fuller: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FullWi01.htm

Hopkins: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HopkDe00.htm

He had as good a year as Fuller and not as good as Hopkins but then if you bar for not sucking is Hopkins then there are only maybe 6 receivers in the NFL that don't suck. Stills was solid for a first season on a team and well worth a 2nd round.

As for as no one paying that for a player and not signing them to a long term deal the Rams say hi.



You are reaching so far I'm amazed your arm hasn't fallen off. The only person named in that lawsuit was Gaine and you are basing your ENTIRE argument on the point of view of the guy filing the lawsuit. You're not even trying to look at things objectively and logically any more are you?
Stills averaged 500 yards last 2 years. A second rounder for that is a joke.

Do you think Gaine was firing people without the explicit direction of O'Brien? Laughable.

The lengths the O'Brien defenders go to deny reality is crazy.
 
Stills averaged 500 yards last 2 years. A second rounder for that is a joke.

Do you think Gaine was firing people without the explicit direction of O'Brien? Laughable.

The lengths the O'Brien defenders go to deny reality is crazy.
Ah yes we come back to your classic OB is the Lex Luther evil mastermind of the Texans and directs everything while keeping Cal locked in his closest. While at the same time OB needs to have scape goats to save his job every year. So which is it, does he have all the power and can do anything he wants or does he have to throw people under the bus to save his own job because it can't be both.

The depths you have fallen in your flat out hatred of him is both sad and a little scary. You have taken this beyond football and talk, at least on here, as if Bill O'Brien's continued existence is painful for you.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Ah yes we come back to your classic OB is the Lex Luther evil mastermind of the Texans and directs everything while keeping Cal locked in his closest. While at the same time OB needs to have scape goats to save his job every year. So which is it, does he have all the power and can do anything he wants or does he have to throw people under the bus to save his own job because it can't be both.

The depths you have fallen in your flat out hatred of him is both sad and a little scary. You have taken this beyond football and talk, at least on here, as if Bill O'Brien's continued existence is painful for you.
No matter how obvious it is that obrien has gained the power to do what he wants, some are still in denial. Oh well.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Staley, Lewan, Peters, Castonzo, Armstead.

And then we can talk about guys who are sightly worse but only cost like one 3rd round pick
With the exception of possibly Castonzo, all were considered busts their first 2-3 years in the league, and I question that any are better than Tunsil
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
With the exception of possibly Castonzo, all were considered busts their first 2-3 years in the league, and I question that any are better than Tunsil
But none are busts and none cost anywhere near as much as Tunsil did. S
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
He did say HC
They may have similar regular season records as HC, but the play-offs is a different matter.

Besides, as we had discussed ad nauseum, O'Brien inherited a good team.

Kubiak came into the league in a similar fashion as Belichik with the Browns.

Not only that, the AFC back then was pretty tough for the most part.

When O'Brien came in, the Jaguars and the Titans were in full disarray, and then Luck got hurt.

It's more the misfortune of the other teams that gave O'Brien a better regular season record than what should have been.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Good lord you're reaching hard now.

Its okay to hate the guy as a HC for whatever reasons you have. Lord knows I have wanted him gone, but all of this stuff you keep coming up with aside from it is more if a reflection on you more than anything else. I mean making comparisons to terrorists and throwing out the race card to potentially suggest that he's racist in a sport where black men are employed all over the place. At some point you have to provide some other content other than "I hate O'Brien" along with all of the extra stuff you're now adding to his personal life. None of that is going to get him closer to being fired at the end of the day. You pretty much have to root for the Texans to lose at this point.
517-7 = BOB needs to go

KDog = Me wanting BOB to stay.

I guess I enjoy watching waterboarding though.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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With the exception of possibly Castonzo, all were considered busts their first 2-3 years in the league, and I question that any are better than Tunsil
Yep, didn't Tunsil make the All Pro team? Not the Pro Bowl team but the All Pro team.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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They may have similar regular season records as HC, but the play-offs is a different matter.

Besides, as we had discussed ad nauseum, O'Brien inherited a good team.

Kubiak came into the league in a similar fashion as Belichik with the Browns.

Not only that, the AFC back then was pretty tough for the most part.

When O'Brien came in, the Jaguars and the Titans were in full disarray, and then Luck got hurt.

It's more the misfortune of the other teams that gave O'Brien a better regular season record than what should have been.
More excuses for RS/Kubiak's failures.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
You would rather Watson get killed this past year or next than have a possible 10 year all pro at LT?
So now that's the only other option?

How about getting a coach who can build an ol without spending so much draft capital and salary cap space?
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
So now that's the only other option?

How about getting a coach who can build an ol without spending so much draft capital and salary cap space?
Yes, OB needs to be gone, but not because of the trade for Tunsil which was the topic. Nice try at deflection though. No matter how much you hate it, you can't change the past
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Treating your own family well is pretty much what you are expected to do. That doesn't mean you're a good person. I mean even terrorists love their families
Boy, it appears the hate seems to be oozing from your pores. You couldn't pick a better analogy? Or haven't you seen terrorist moms and dads celebrating in the streets when their kids blow themselves up? That's true love, right?
 

TheKDog

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Contributor's Club
Yes, OB needs to be gone, but not because of the trade for Tunsil which was the topic. Nice try at deflection though. No matter how much you hate it, you can't change the past
The trade is part of it. He completely screwed up the line, panicked and then overpaid to patch it up with future assets.

And he'll do it again with other positions
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Fixed one position while ruining others? That's not the goal
I'm not disagreeing that OB needs to go, but in your hate you are fixated on what none of us can change. What's you point? Is anyone arguing to keep OB? What other positions did he ruin in 2019?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
No need to add all pro type players
When did Tunsil make the All-Pro team?

I have started to rewatch some games, (so far, just the two play-off games and wk 1 vs. the Saints), paying attention to a few particular players: Tunsil, Roby, Conley and Hargraves.
The Texans secondary is pure trash; only Reid made the grade, but not without bad moments.

Tunsil looks poor in all these 3 games; I can't even believe he made the Pro-Bowl if the rest of the games are like that.
Just because DW4 bails the offensive line out doesn't mean that it's good; just less offending than last year is all.

You have to remember that the opponents choose to stay back in coverage more this year (as Corrosion had also noticed); the Texans' linemen aren't on an island all the time.)
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
Yep. Waiting list is over 30,000 the last time I heard about it. I have a friend that's been on it for 7+ years.
Would your friend like to buy mine for the next year? If so shoot me a PM.
We never seem to make it over the hump, or we lose the one’s we shouldn’t be losing, because coaching doesn’t seem to be able to push “A achievers” beyond what they are willing to push themselves. That’s on the coaches
This^^ - beat the Broncos at home this season and you've got a 2 or 3 seed. I don't recall exactly what the scenario was at the time. My point is that was a BIG game and the entire team came out and laid a big fat turd of a game on us. It almost felt like they weren't aware of the importance of that game. Years back, it was the 1-3 finish down the stretch cost them a 1 or 2 seed I think. Losing to the craptastic Vikings (that year anyway) at home was awful.
Stills sucks.
No, suck he does not.
How about getting a coach who can build an ol without spending so much draft capital
Didn't he draft Scharping and Howard? He's building it. Too bad Howard was injured.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Didn't he draft Scharping and Howard? He's building it. Too bad Howard was injured.
Under OB, the Texans had spent a lot of resources on the Oline, if anyone cares to revisit, we can take a stab at it.

And yet, this year, it was ranked 20th by PFF and 22nd by Football Outsiders.

The Texans recorded 44TDs on offense, one fewer than their opponents combined.

They attempted 25 FGs (one fewer than the opponents), and made 20 (also, one fewer).
That was with better offensive weapons overall than they ever did, so what gives?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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When did Tunsil make the All-Pro team?

I have started to rewatch some games, (so far, just the two play-off games and wk 1 vs. the Saints), paying attention to a few particular players: Tunsil, Roby, Conley and Hargraves.
The Texans secondary is pure trash; only Reid made the grade, but not without bad moments.

Tunsil looks poor in all these 3 games; I can't even believe he made the Pro-Bowl if the rest of the games are like that.
Just because DW4 bails the offensive line out doesn't mean that it's good; just less offending than last year is all.

You have to remember that the opponents choose to stay back in coverage more this year (as Corrosion had also noticed); the Texans' linemen aren't on an island all the time.)
Nice case counselor

I said all pro TYPE players, which Tunsil surely is. He may even make the all pro this yr after only giving up 3 sacks and very few pressures. Look up CnD's post for his stats and I think you will be surprised by how well he played this yr. Since you're a stat guy.

You may not like Tunsil, but he's a really talented guy who should solve the LT riddle for the next decade. I'm as big a draftnik as there is. But giving up two 1's is a fair price to protect DW4 into the future.
 

steelbtexan

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Under OB, the Texans had spent a lot of resources on the Oline, if anyone cares to revisit, we can take a stab at it.

And yet, this year, it was ranked 20th by PFF and 22nd by Football Outsiders.

The Texans recorded 44TDs on offense, one fewer than their opponents combined.

They attempted 25 FGs (one fewer than the opponents), and made 20 (also, one fewer).
That was with better offensive weapons overall than they ever did, so what gives?
Oh, I agree and this is why they need to get an OC to call plays and Devlin needs to go. But DW4 helped cause alot of those sacks by some of the holding onto the ball too long. The number of sacks did fall significantly even with this.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
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Nice case counselor

I said all pro TYPE players, which Tunsil surely is. He may even make the all pro this yr after only giving up 3 sacks and very few pressures. Look up CnD's post for his stats and I think you will be surprised by how well he played this yr. Since you're a stat guy.

You may not like Tunsil, but he's a really talented guy who should solve the LT riddle for the next decade. I'm as big a draftnik as there is. But giving up two 1's is a fair price to protect DW4 into the future.
I have to agree with SteelB because it was either pay the extreeme pice to protect DW4 or hold on to the picks and hope DW4 is not injured again, even more seriously than before.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Against the Bills, the Texans registered 2 TDs and a FG (thanks to a fumble recovered by Martin/Mercilus - and Kevin Johnson, LOL) in regular time.
They netted 276 yards in regular time, an awful number.

Against the Chiefs, they posted 442 yards, a good number.
They registered 2 TDs, and a FG (after having the ball at their 49, rather short field position).

Very pedestrian.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Oh, I agree and this is why they need to get an OC to call plays and Devlin needs to go. But DW4 helped cause alot of those sacks by some of the holding onto the ball too long. The number of sacks did fall significantly even with this.
I'll work on those sacks later if I feel like it.
 

steelbtexan

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I have to agree with SteelB because it was either pay the extreeme pice to protect DW4 or hold on to the picks and hope DW4 is not injured again, even more seriously than before.
Thanks for this post.

It's really very simple.

People around here are just looking for stuff to dog BOB about and there's plenty to dog him about, but this isn't one of those things. I honestly think posters dont like the trade because it screws up their draft parties and mock drafts. BTW, they can still do mock drafts and in the real draft there will still be talent to be found outside of Rd.1
 

steelbtexan

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Against the Bills, the Texans registered 2 TDs and a FG (thanks to a fumble recovered by Martin/Mercilus - and Kevin Johnson, LOL) in regular time.
They netted 276 yards in regular time, an awful number.

Against the Chiefs, they posted 442 yards, a good number.
They registered 2 TDs, and a FG (after having the ball at their 49, rather short field position).

Very pedestrian.
Yep, tell us more about DW4's performance in those games. Furthermore why dont you bring up his stats for the last 5-6 games of the season. DC's have figured DW4 out.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Nice case counselor
ture.
I said all pro TYPE players, which Tunsil surely is. He may even make the all pro this yr after only giving up 3 sacks and very few pressures. Look up CnD's post for his stats and I think you will be surprised by how well he played this yr. Since you're a stat guy.

You may not like Tunsil, but he's a really talented guy who should solve the LT riddle for the next decade. I'm as big a draftnik as there is. But giving up two 1's is a fair price to protect DW4 into the future.
No, I use stats as a mean, not an end.
You know that.
I have to break down each play for each player, while also looking at the overall picture.
No, Tunsil does not look like a Pro-Bowl Type player.
Right now, he looks closer to Winston, who wasn't a bad OT - but like I said, I still need to take a harder look before calling it.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I have to agree with SteelB because it was either pay the extreeme pice to protect DW4 or hold on to the picks and hope DW4 is not injured again, even more seriously than before.
My main point was that the Texans under O'Brien had spent a whole lot of resources on the offensive line; all for mediocre results.
Yes, they had to do it to protect Watson; I get that.
But that was partially also because O'Brien and Devlin's scheme isn't much good.

Kubiak's zone blocking scheme (improved upon later with the gap scheme) help the linemen better.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Working on it.
But if you read the Breaking It Down thread, you'll get the general answer: O'Brien's play design and calling was stale and mediocre; that's the main reason.
I agree with you somewhat on BOB, but DW4 shares his part in this too. So no it's not the main reason, it should be equally shared. BTW, how did the Texans go from being a decent offense to a crappy offense in the last month of the season? Could it be that they were playing better defenses that had DW4 confused, or did BOB become an idiot over the last 6 games of the season? I choose to think BOB was calling plays to protect DW4 from becoming a turnover machine. Or atleast I hope that's the case.
 


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