I was originally all over the Stephen Hill at #26 pick but articles like these make me question that decision as I learn more about Hill's lack of route running skills. We don't need another Jacoby Jones. Hill has the measurables to be a future #1 WR but our staff will have to teach him route running skills, something they've been unable to do with Jacoby in the previous 4 yrs.. I like Marvin Jones alot and he already knows how to run routes. The same can be said for AJ Jenkins.
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Stephen Hill
- Thread starter beerlover
- Start date
I was originally all over the Stephen Hill at #26 pick but articles like these make me question that decision as I learn more about Hill's lack of route running skills. We don't need another Jacoby Jones. Hill has the measurables to be a future #1 WR but our staff will have to teach him route running skills, something they've been unable to do with Jacoby in the previous 4 yrs.. I like Marvin Jones alot and he already knows how to run routes. The same can be said for AJ Jenkins.
"Hill's route lacks a sharp angle from his break. As you can see he's beginning his turn at the three and giving his opponent the chance to turn is hips early to anticipate the path from the break. The orange line is where Hill should have begun his break."
This is the author "assuming" that Hill was supposed to run a deep in.
It certainly looks to me like he was running short post, going up about 7 yards deep then angling toward the post.
...
Dale Moss caught one running this route in the East-West Shriner game (his only catch, but it wasn't his fault; he wasn't targeted but twice.)
As a complement to that route, Moss also ran a post-corner route.
This one looks like a short post at the beginning, but as the receiver makes his angle cut to the post at seven yards (thereabout), he puts on a double move and cuts back toward the corner. (The QB failed Moss on this play as he put the ball way too long). Moss beat Josh Norman, a CB that might go in round 3-4.
I've been watching Randle since yesterday, and I saw him ran the same post-corner route against Miss. St. for a TD.
Randle wasn't as smooth/sharp in and out of the break as Moss, but the CB was caught peeking into the backfield. (He didn't "really" stick his inside foot into the ground.)
Come to think of it, I found the highlight here:
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312580344
Instead of creating a new thread on Randle, I thought I would just add my observation in this one.
In week 3 vs Miss. St. there was an incompletion in which Randle made a cut to the outside around the 15-16 yard mark. The ball was thrown at 27 yards just outside the number. Clearly, there was a mis-communication; I don't know whose fault that was, the QB or the WR.
In week 4 vs. W. Virginia (I'm still watching this game), Randle made a cut to the outside between 6 and 7 yards. This is similar to a play where Hill was criticized for rounding out his outside route. I've said that it is not abosultely necessary for a receiver to make the cut at 5 yards on a quick out; I've seen playbooks that call for the cut at 6 and even 7 yards. Whoever it was that complaint Hill was a poor route runner needs to mark Randle as one just the same.
Later on, Randle dropped an easy pass in the end zone.
Randle made the cut to the inside somewhere between 7 and 10 yards (TV angle wasn't all that good).
The safety stepped up such that Randle was wide open (the CB was concentrating on the outside).
It's unclear whether Randle let the ball too close into his body or what, but the analyst proclaimed that the ball was right on the money.
In week 3 vs Miss. St. there was an incompletion in which Randle made a cut to the outside around the 15-16 yard mark. The ball was thrown at 27 yards just outside the number. Clearly, there was a mis-communication; I don't know whose fault that was, the QB or the WR.
In week 4 vs. W. Virginia (I'm still watching this game), Randle made a cut to the outside between 6 and 7 yards. This is similar to a play where Hill was criticized for rounding out his outside route. I've said that it is not abosultely necessary for a receiver to make the cut at 5 yards on a quick out; I've seen playbooks that call for the cut at 6 and even 7 yards. Whoever it was that complaint Hill was a poor route runner needs to mark Randle as one just the same.
Later on, Randle dropped an easy pass in the end zone.
Randle made the cut to the inside somewhere between 7 and 10 yards (TV angle wasn't all that good).
The safety stepped up such that Randle was wide open (the CB was concentrating on the outside).
It's unclear whether Randle let the ball too close into his body or what, but the analyst proclaimed that the ball was right on the money.
These type of comments, and others I've read, are the reason why I'm not sold on any of the WR's at #26, whether it be Hill, Wright, Randle, Jeffreys, or anyone else. I'm just not sold on any of them. They all have questions about their game that could make them a "boom or bust" type player. That's why I'm hoping the Texans go after an OLB in the 1st, like McClellen, or another position, instead of WR. Then pick up a WR in the 2nd or 3rd, like Marvin Jones or Toon, which are a better value IMO.
I'm pretty much opposite. I don't think Randle and Wright have 1st round talent (especially Wright). Hill has the talent and potential, but may not make much of a contribution this year while he learns the system. I would rather take a WR in the 2nd, and see the Texans develop him. There are some O-linemen that should be available at #26 that could compete on the right side.
I agree with everything here except for taking an O-lineman at 26.
It may be best for the Texans to trade out of the first; there seems to be a good bit of values in the next two rounds.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
Small school guy, never played against good competition.
Hype is based on measurables not production.
You can make a case not to take nearly any player if you are looking for it.
Quick might be a slightly more gifted Jacoby Jones.....
drs23
Veteran
Really? I've heard the knock on Jacoby, small hands and being a bone head and that's not what I'm hearing about Quick like big hands and having football IQ. Elway says
Rest of the story here.
We all know what John Elway's saying is true so sometimes you just roll the bones. I'll be watching to see if he drops to the third. I don't think he will.I'm going to keep an eye on him. I think we might be surprised.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
Hence the more gifted part. You roll the dice with small school guys, even more so than guys from elite schools.
My major point I guess was that you can pick holes in any pick if you want. Just got to trust your scouting.
Hills positives are a fit though.
He is lightning fast.
He is big.
He blocks as well or better than any WR in this draft.
That might be enough for a coach like Kubiak to think he's worth the #26 pick. His speed would stop teams from rotating over to AJ's side of the field. If not, with his size and speed he should win a fair amount of one on ones. His blocking ability would be more than enough to keep him on the field. Look at Walters, he is out there mostly because of his blocking ability. It's not like he is a great route runner or deep threat. Hill would be like having a lot faster Walters.
He is lightning fast.
He is big.
He blocks as well or better than any WR in this draft.
That might be enough for a coach like Kubiak to think he's worth the #26 pick. His speed would stop teams from rotating over to AJ's side of the field. If not, with his size and speed he should win a fair amount of one on ones. His blocking ability would be more than enough to keep him on the field. Look at Walters, he is out there mostly because of his blocking ability. It's not like he is a great route runner or deep threat. Hill would be like having a lot faster Walters.
Section516
Warrior
Past week, Hills been really growing on me.
6-4/6-5 H/W/S guys with a rumored high work ethic and character don't grow on trees..
have to take the triple option attack into affect when scouting him..
High ceiling, can develop.
6-4/6-5 H/W/S guys with a rumored high work ethic and character don't grow on trees..
have to take the triple option attack into affect when scouting him..
High ceiling, can develop.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Exactly. Just because you're a good athlete doesn't mean you're a good football player. All Hill is at this stage is potential and we need someone who can come in and immediately upgrade the WR position.
Section516
Warrior
I'm concerned Wright is more RGIII than KW, also concerned with his size.
Won't get mad at Randall.
Was down on Hill, now more of, I can go either way..But I'd really like to time travel five years and look back on his career.
There might not be a WR in this draft that fits that bill. None of these WRs were in pro offenses. None of them. From Blackmon to Floyd to Wright to Hill, all will have to learn how to play in the NFL. Yes, Kendall Wright caught a lot more passes in college than did Stephen Hill. That means squat when it comes to being ready for the NFL.
Look at the guys who had success as rookies last year: Green, Jones, and Torrey Smith. None were polished players. They made it happen because they were superior athletes. So who are the guys that are the most likely to "immediately upgrade" at WR? Guys who caught a lot of passes at the college level in college offenses? Or guys who can make plays based upon athletic ability?
If I had to take my pick I'd target Alshon I'm the second round. There are traits I like in each of these second tier receivers.
I think Alshon is going to give the most bang for the buck though. And if I had to choose a wr in the first it'd be hill I think. He has top 5 wr measureables.
I think Alshon is going to give the most bang for the buck though. And if I had to choose a wr in the first it'd be hill I think. He has top 5 wr measureables.
It's amazing how great minds think alike. LOL
What rd do you see Janzen Jackson going in?
If he can stay out of trouble he will be a steal for some team. IMHO
What rd do you see Janzen Jackson going in?
If he can stay out of trouble he will be a steal for some team. IMHO
If Jeffrey is there at #58 I'd have no problem taking him, but he's projected to go early in the 2nd or possibly very late in the 1st. Unlike you though, I'm seeing negative traits in each of them I don't like. With Jeffrey it's his weight gain during the season (230+) and then dramatic loss for the Combine and Pro-Day. Which one will show up at camp?
badboy
Hall of Fame
This
MojoMan
Hall of Fame
Which is why the Texans wisely passed on him, despite the predictions of a number of draft "experts" that the Texans would take him in the first round.
I was hoping like hell we'd take Alshon. That guy would have been sweet in this offense.
But I do like posey. He has some skills.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
In general pretty weak class. I look forward to next season crop to address WR position. Hill, Jeffery, Randle, Sanu all did not warrant a 1st rd. grade. Nor did AJ Jenkins who went #30th to San Francisco or Brian Quick #33rd St. Louis. This is what separates elite teams, those who build & stick to their draft board despite wanting a specific position. Posey fits right in with the rest of them but Texans valued him worth 68th pick, pick despite needing WR help. Salary constraints keep them from going free agency route or trading for established one as well. 
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Still, Hill starting contradicts Rich Cimini's "disappointment" piece.
Not really. He was an early pick in the draft on a team needing wr and playmaking help.
It's not like we haven't seen teams cram players into the starting line up before they were ready or deserving.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Never mind, looks like injuries/no-preseason are the culprit. Man, they have nothing behind Santonio.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
No, Posey was inactive against Miami.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Of course he did, the bench has a very good view of the turf.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
TexansFTW
Veteran
Good S! Wow, you called it bro. Someone just dug this thread up and now I'm going back reading it, this is a ballsy statement and you are 100% correct.
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kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
I was a Stephen Hill believer.
Jets ruined him, because I cannot be wrong!!
Jets ruined him, because I cannot be wrong!!
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
If we're talking about WRs we all pulled for, let it be stated on the record that I was a huge proponent of Keenan Allen.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Bringing forward for props, as well.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
If we're talking about WRs we all pulled for, let it be stated on the record that I was a huge proponent of Keenan Allen.
Yep so was I. Never got the hype on Hill.
Yep
He's the type of guy somebody like the Broncos will pick up on the cheap and start tearing it up.