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Stephen Hill
- Thread starter beerlover
- Start date
& that's the point. I know it's a pre-combine rating. I also know they are not NFL personnel managers or scouts. But Scott Pioli, Ted Thompson, & Floyd Reese aren't returning my calls.
I personally don't have a problem with going against the grain & gambling every now & then.
Teams can (and will) bring players in for interviews. But, they can't work them out. They can go to private workouts near the player's home. Not sure I understand what the difference is. Insurance issues, perhaps?
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Teams can workout a defined limited number of players. Believe there is a specific window of time as well.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
This is a good read: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...after-tracking-pre-draft-visits-and-workouts/
Dorin Dickerson was a different kind of big. 6'2" - 227lbs
Stephen Hill is 6'4" - 215lbs.
Hill is closer to Calvin Johnson "big".... 6'5" 235lbs or Plaxico Burress (about the same)
Dorin Dickerson is closer to Andre Johnson "big" 6'3" - 226
I've been able to watch 4 of his games so far (and highlights from a few more).
I really like his potential.
There was only one true drop.
If the QB was a little more accurate, has a little stronger arm (all I ask for is a 40yd pass straight downfield) and can read coverage a little quicker, Hill could have had anywhere from 120-190 more yards in just those 4 games.
In the Kansas game, only one pass was thrown to him.
In the N.C.St. game, only two passes were thrown to him; he caught one for 40 and beat coverage deep on another long pass play but the QB missed badly - Hill had a couple of step on the receiver due to good route running, stemming outside to get the CB to open up his hip before he cut inside toward the post.
The claim that he's a poor route runner is simply untrue.
He can put on different moves on different routes to get open and he understands where the open spot in the zone is.
His blocking is very good already for just a college player.
In the Kansas game for example, he neutralized the CB on three long long run and several medium runs. He performed this task well in all 4 games I've watched so far.
He has great hip flexibility and can make cut after cut. One one play, he made 4 cuts making 4 guys miss; that's pretty amazing for a tall receiver.
And he put on some nice moves/cuts that made guys miss on some other plays as well.
He has a great intitial burst and can change gear really well for such a tall guy.
You expect these things from a Kendall Wright.
I still have 4 more games (from this year) to watch and several more from 2010.
Early impressions tell me that he's a better receiver/player than Jacoby.
He will be a steal in the third round.
He looks to me to be at least a 2nd rounder.
I want to put him in the first round, but I think I'll wait to watch more of his game.
So far I've seen him ran the following routes:
Post
Skinny post
Streak/fly
Stick
Deep comeback
Deep fade
Short fade
Hook
Hitch
Slant
Drag
Deep out
Deep In
Wheel
I haven't seen him run a post-corner or a flag route yet.
But basically, he had run all the other routes and was open or at least had some seperation from the DB a good majority of the time.
(I can see ony about 25-30 passing plays due to TV angle.
If he checks out the same in the rest of the games that I intend to watch; I would have to put him the first round.
So far, I'm more impressed with him than Toon or Jeffery (both of whom I had made a note 3 years ago that it looked like they will play on Sunday. I was scouting Kareem Jackson when I first noticed Jeffery, and Garrett Graham when I noticed Toon. I think I had briefly mentioned them in the scouting reports on KJ and Graham.)
I really like his potential.
There was only one true drop.
If the QB was a little more accurate, has a little stronger arm (all I ask for is a 40yd pass straight downfield) and can read coverage a little quicker, Hill could have had anywhere from 120-190 more yards in just those 4 games.
In the Kansas game, only one pass was thrown to him.
In the N.C.St. game, only two passes were thrown to him; he caught one for 40 and beat coverage deep on another long pass play but the QB missed badly - Hill had a couple of step on the receiver due to good route running, stemming outside to get the CB to open up his hip before he cut inside toward the post.
The claim that he's a poor route runner is simply untrue.
He can put on different moves on different routes to get open and he understands where the open spot in the zone is.
His blocking is very good already for just a college player.
In the Kansas game for example, he neutralized the CB on three long long run and several medium runs. He performed this task well in all 4 games I've watched so far.
He has great hip flexibility and can make cut after cut. One one play, he made 4 cuts making 4 guys miss; that's pretty amazing for a tall receiver.
And he put on some nice moves/cuts that made guys miss on some other plays as well.
He has a great intitial burst and can change gear really well for such a tall guy.
You expect these things from a Kendall Wright.
I still have 4 more games (from this year) to watch and several more from 2010.
Early impressions tell me that he's a better receiver/player than Jacoby.
He will be a steal in the third round.
He looks to me to be at least a 2nd rounder.
I want to put him in the first round, but I think I'll wait to watch more of his game.
So far I've seen him ran the following routes:
Post
Skinny post
Streak/fly
Stick
Deep comeback
Deep fade
Short fade
Hook
Hitch
Slant
Drag
Deep out
Deep In
Wheel
I haven't seen him run a post-corner or a flag route yet.
But basically, he had run all the other routes and was open or at least had some seperation from the DB a good majority of the time.
(I can see ony about 25-30 passing plays due to TV angle.
If he checks out the same in the rest of the games that I intend to watch; I would have to put him the first round.
So far, I'm more impressed with him than Toon or Jeffery (both of whom I had made a note 3 years ago that it looked like they will play on Sunday. I was scouting Kareem Jackson when I first noticed Jeffery, and Garrett Graham when I noticed Toon. I think I had briefly mentioned them in the scouting reports on KJ and Graham.)
I know, so how about just let me start in this same thread.
Here goes!
Week 1 vs. W. Carolina.
(I did not watch this game).
Hill took a quick swing pass, gave a good stiff arm, and outran the rest of the secondary for an 82 yd TD. It was an easy catch; here it just demonstrate his speed. And the stiff arm helped.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312440059
If any of the links doesn't get you to the right play, I apologize, just look around (it won't take long).
On a simple post route, the off-side safety was supposed (IMO) to get back into coverage deep (while the on side safety played underneath).
It doesn't matter; this just showed Hill's tremendous speed.
And he reached back to plug the late ball very well.
Hill caught 4 balls for a total of 181 yds (2 TDs) in this game.
The official game book did not show any other pass attempt toward him.
(There were another receiver Jones, who dropped at least 2 passes at quick scan.)
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/driveSummary.jsp?expand=A&acadyr=2011&h=255&v=769&date=01-SEP-11&game=201100000025520110901
Week 2 vs. Middle Tennessee
(I did not watch this game either)
The Yellow jackets attempted only 10 passes (8 by the starter Washington).
Hill caught 3 for 126 yards (including the 71 yd TD pass.)
On the 71yd TD pass, Hill lined up as the widest receiver in a tight formation and ran a simple post route.
There was nothing to it as the safeties failed.
Note that Hill did have to reach back to grab the ball.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312532393
On the following 43yd catch, Hill lined up outside the hashmarks.
He ran a seam route and did a good job stemming to the inside of the hashmarks before swerving back outside the hashmarks (look carefully at the beginning of the route.)
This gave him the seperation needed to catch the ball.
He also did a good job concentrating on the ball even with the contact.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312532393
(3rd and 9) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S. (Ikner, Arness)
(2nd and 15) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S. (Edwards, T.L.).
The two plays above showed incompletions, but did not denote any dropped pass.
I don't know how he ran the routes, since I didn't watch the game.
Both guys with names in parentheses are CBs, so it's either a pass defended or the DB was close enough to the play to get credit.
Whether the passes were incompleted due to no separation or a good play by the DB or a poor throw by the QB or whatever, we don't know.
But they weren't dropped passes.
The descriptions of the plays were taken from the official ncaa game book.
I use them (similarly as I use the nfl.com gamebook) to help while breaking down game tapes. For the most part, they are pretty consistent... but I can't be held against some sloppy work (yes, there were and always will be - normal human error, I'm not the exception.)
(I did not watch this game either)
The Yellow jackets attempted only 10 passes (8 by the starter Washington).
Hill caught 3 for 126 yards (including the 71 yd TD pass.)
On the 71yd TD pass, Hill lined up as the widest receiver in a tight formation and ran a simple post route.
There was nothing to it as the safeties failed.
Note that Hill did have to reach back to grab the ball.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312532393
On the following 43yd catch, Hill lined up outside the hashmarks.
He ran a seam route and did a good job stemming to the inside of the hashmarks before swerving back outside the hashmarks (look carefully at the beginning of the route.)
This gave him the seperation needed to catch the ball.
He also did a good job concentrating on the ball even with the contact.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312532393
(3rd and 9) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S. (Ikner, Arness)
(2nd and 15) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S. (Edwards, T.L.).
The two plays above showed incompletions, but did not denote any dropped pass.
I don't know how he ran the routes, since I didn't watch the game.
Both guys with names in parentheses are CBs, so it's either a pass defended or the DB was close enough to the play to get credit.
Whether the passes were incompleted due to no separation or a good play by the DB or a poor throw by the QB or whatever, we don't know.
But they weren't dropped passes.
The descriptions of the plays were taken from the official ncaa game book.
I use them (similarly as I use the nfl.com gamebook) to help while breaking down game tapes. For the most part, they are pretty consistent... but I can't be held against some sloppy work (yes, there were and always will be - normal human error, I'm not the exception.)
Week 3 vs. Kansas
(I did watch this game; there wasn't much passing, but we can learn a lot about Hill's blocking skills and how he went hard at his routes - unlike Meachem for the Saints.)
The Yellow Jackets running game was in high gear as they ran 50 times for 604 yards.
Washington (the QB) attempted only 7 passes.
Hill caught a short one for 4 yards without much chance to advance the ball.
He did a good job blocking and ran his routes hard even when the ball went the opposite way.
He took out the CB completely on 3 long running plays toward his side, and he did a pretty good job on several intermediate runs 15-25 yards.
No, he didn't win every blocking assignment, but not for lack of trying.
Overall, the Yellow Jackets' receivers worked hard at their blocking (it's very likely a requirement for them to stay on the field.)
Hill probably did the best job out there on this day (among the receivers on blocking assignments.)
I only use the term "probably" as not to slight the effort of the other guys, but there was no denying Hill's dominance on his defender.
And he was eager to congratulate his teammates on their success (including TDs).
I like his attitude.
What I can appreciate is when a guy still runs his routes hard even when he knows the ball isn't coming his way.
It's good work habit, and it makes the CB/safety work hard just the same.
It keeps them on their heels, and it helps the running game tremendously.
(I did watch this game; there wasn't much passing, but we can learn a lot about Hill's blocking skills and how he went hard at his routes - unlike Meachem for the Saints.)
The Yellow Jackets running game was in high gear as they ran 50 times for 604 yards.
Washington (the QB) attempted only 7 passes.
Hill caught a short one for 4 yards without much chance to advance the ball.
He did a good job blocking and ran his routes hard even when the ball went the opposite way.
He took out the CB completely on 3 long running plays toward his side, and he did a pretty good job on several intermediate runs 15-25 yards.
No, he didn't win every blocking assignment, but not for lack of trying.
Overall, the Yellow Jackets' receivers worked hard at their blocking (it's very likely a requirement for them to stay on the field.)
Hill probably did the best job out there on this day (among the receivers on blocking assignments.)
I only use the term "probably" as not to slight the effort of the other guys, but there was no denying Hill's dominance on his defender.
And he was eager to congratulate his teammates on their success (including TDs).
I like his attitude.
What I can appreciate is when a guy still runs his routes hard even when he knows the ball isn't coming his way.
It's good work habit, and it makes the CB/safety work hard just the same.
It keeps them on their heels, and it helps the running game tremendously.
That's not the case, as it will become a little more clear as I continue with the film study.
There are times that the D sent the CB in to defend the triple option and the safety bombed.
To say that DB doesn't pay attention to Hill is just nonsense.
How do you purposedly allow a receiver with deep speed to run past you.
Hell, if he drops 3 passes (which wasn't the case to begin with) and catches one, it would still be a long TD.
If the number of times that he gets open due to a mishap in a D that makes me all riled up about Hill, I would be a fool.
...
For some reason, it's hard for me to distinguish between badboy and beerlover at times, LOL - you guys are working so much in tune (martin is a bit different; probably because he diverts quite a bit of attention to small school prospects).
But at any rate, one of you mentioned that as scouts, one can find value in a case like this... where the QB is not all that good, and the system doesn't showcase the true talent of a receiver (even if it gives him wide-open chance at times).
We can say the same about the Stanford TE as many of his catches were also wide-open due to the scheme/mishap by the D.
I scratch out most of those plays.
But I do note how they run their route on those plays.
Like I said, if you don't pay attention to the details (their body's movement - whether they telegraph the play as a run rather than a pass; all sort of things) then you're more likely to miss out on a prospect (off-the-field problem is a different thing.)
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Great stuff & always appreciated, 76.
Grrr .... MSR.
Getting excited about this guy.
Got him
I really appreciate all of the info 76 provides. It must be alot of time/work.
I am going to let 76 Texans do the film work, but there is a lot about Stephen Hill that smells Texans.
1) They like guys with a good overall athletic profile (see Texans' chick's work)
2) Good character..all indication are that he has it, but we never really know
3) REally don't need long history of production.
Biggest negative
Don't seem to draft the "darlings" or "hot" names.
1) They like guys with a good overall athletic profile (see Texans' chick's work)
2) Good character..all indication are that he has it, but we never really know
3) REally don't need long history of production.
Biggest negative
Don't seem to draft the "darlings" or "hot" names.
Thanks guys, the film study is exclusively for Texanstalk.
It has always been the appreciation that kept me going at it.
And it's only for Texans fans!
Yeah, it takes up a lot of time, but I'm used to going to sleep with headphones over my ears.
I'm having a few beers so I don't know if I can continue posting the next few game studies. (They are ready, just copy and paste; but I always change up things a bit as I post them.)
I need a good break, but then again, I might come back real soon.
It has always been the appreciation that kept me going at it.
And it's only for Texans fans!
Yeah, it takes up a lot of time, but I'm used to going to sleep with headphones over my ears.
I'm having a few beers so I don't know if I can continue posting the next few game studies. (They are ready, just copy and paste; but I always change up things a bit as I post them.)
I need a good break, but then again, I might come back real soon.
OK, I will try one more game, if I can only finish it, because it's a little bit long.
I will try to counter the blogger SpredAloha, each of our take is obviously our own narrative. You can add them to your own or disregard both to form an opinion.
http://www.battleredblog.com/2012/2/27/2827529/stephen-hill
Week 4 vs. NC
To defend Ga Tech triple option, UNC sometimes brought the CB up to line, leaving the safety to defend any deep route from the receiver.
If the safety also bought the run, the receiver would run right past him.
1st Qtr
Example One: 0:07 Seconds (based on the blogger's video)
(3rd and 15) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 12 yards to the NC23 (Brown, C).
I'm going to go long with this one, even though it doesn't matter all that much at the end of the day.
I just want to say that I try to study both the offense and the defense; how they go at it on the particular play (if I was to study the QB, it would take even longer.)
The defense showed a cover 2 shell (2 deep safeties); however, with the LCB playing some 9 yards off the LOS, the D could end up playing 1/4 on play side.
The offense ran a cover-2 beater (that is also effective vs. cover 3 or cover 4).
Ga Tech flooded the outside zone with a Hi-Lo concept at work where the wide-out ran a deep route on an outside release requiring the LCB to sink deep or the safety coming over the top.
Tech then inserted Hill (from the slot) underneath near the side line with either an out route or a curl of some sort.
The mot inside receiver (lining up in the TE Y posiion) ran a crossing route to further distract the play side safety.
As all 3 LBs looked to play the run first (even on third and very long), when the 3 players on play side released, none of them followed , denoting some form of a zone coverage.
When a receiver saw zone coverage, they are (supposedly) taught to find the open space in the zone.
The first problem here was the wde-out who lined up on the line (2 yards ahead of Hill). He didn't burst off the line hard enough; notice that he was barely deeper than Hill 5 yards past the LOS and even seems to slow down as Hill made the cut.
He failed to induce the LCB to declare his coverage earlier (whether he would turn and run with the wide out in quarter coverage) or reacted back toward the flat/curl (if they were in cover 2, 5-under).
Secondly, the QB didn't do a great job either.
He could try to sell the underneath out-route to force the LCB to come back so that he (the QB) can fire the ball over the top to the wide-out, or he could get the ball to Hill sooner so his receiver can make a move in an attempt to beat the LCB in space for a first down.
As it was, the ball was late; Hill had to wait and wait for it to get there.
He reached out with both hands extending to catch the ball (good).
But since the ball was late, the CB had time to come back and made a good ankle tackle, preventing much YAC (about 2-3).
What might have happened if Hill had run hard 10 yards and made a sharp cut as the square out route requires?
Nothing differently, I don't think.
Due to the same execution by the wide-out and the QB, the CB would arrive to make the play just the same.
Rounding off the route a couple of yards early allowed Hill to get the open space in the zone early.
If the QB had gotten the ball to him right away, he would have a much better opportunity to make his move before the CB reacted and before the MLB had the chance to drop back into coverage.
I'm not sure whether Hill was required to run the route precisely at 10 yd or he was taught to adjust to coverage the way he did.
All I know is that by going with the latter, he had a chance to gain the first down (if the QB had delivered the ball a little sooner.)
Squaring up the route helps to push the safety back, but since the safety never attempted to play up close, it served no real purpose; the way I see it.
It made no difference to the CB who was the one who made the tackle.
For all we know, Hill might have been running a speed out and not a deep-out.
I've seen a triple-option playbook from Ga. Southern that calls for a speed-out up to 6 yards past the LOS (speed-out doesn't require a square cut.)
With Hill lining up 2 yards behind the LOS and being a tall receiver with long strides, his 5 steps took him to 7 yards, which is not much of a stretch.
The reason it looks like he was "shuffling" was because he wanted to settle in the zone; running further toward the side line would only bring him closer to the LCB.
I disagree with the blogger on the principle "if it's man coverage, you continue with the route, if it's zone, you find a place to sit in the soft spot".
I will try to counter the blogger SpredAloha, each of our take is obviously our own narrative. You can add them to your own or disregard both to form an opinion.
http://www.battleredblog.com/2012/2/27/2827529/stephen-hill
Week 4 vs. NC
To defend Ga Tech triple option, UNC sometimes brought the CB up to line, leaving the safety to defend any deep route from the receiver.
If the safety also bought the run, the receiver would run right past him.
1st Qtr
Example One: 0:07 Seconds (based on the blogger's video)
(3rd and 15) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 12 yards to the NC23 (Brown, C).
I'm going to go long with this one, even though it doesn't matter all that much at the end of the day.
I just want to say that I try to study both the offense and the defense; how they go at it on the particular play (if I was to study the QB, it would take even longer.)
The defense showed a cover 2 shell (2 deep safeties); however, with the LCB playing some 9 yards off the LOS, the D could end up playing 1/4 on play side.
The offense ran a cover-2 beater (that is also effective vs. cover 3 or cover 4).
Ga Tech flooded the outside zone with a Hi-Lo concept at work where the wide-out ran a deep route on an outside release requiring the LCB to sink deep or the safety coming over the top.
Tech then inserted Hill (from the slot) underneath near the side line with either an out route or a curl of some sort.
The mot inside receiver (lining up in the TE Y posiion) ran a crossing route to further distract the play side safety.
As all 3 LBs looked to play the run first (even on third and very long), when the 3 players on play side released, none of them followed , denoting some form of a zone coverage.
When a receiver saw zone coverage, they are (supposedly) taught to find the open space in the zone.
The first problem here was the wde-out who lined up on the line (2 yards ahead of Hill). He didn't burst off the line hard enough; notice that he was barely deeper than Hill 5 yards past the LOS and even seems to slow down as Hill made the cut.
He failed to induce the LCB to declare his coverage earlier (whether he would turn and run with the wide out in quarter coverage) or reacted back toward the flat/curl (if they were in cover 2, 5-under).
Secondly, the QB didn't do a great job either.
He could try to sell the underneath out-route to force the LCB to come back so that he (the QB) can fire the ball over the top to the wide-out, or he could get the ball to Hill sooner so his receiver can make a move in an attempt to beat the LCB in space for a first down.
As it was, the ball was late; Hill had to wait and wait for it to get there.
He reached out with both hands extending to catch the ball (good).
But since the ball was late, the CB had time to come back and made a good ankle tackle, preventing much YAC (about 2-3).
What might have happened if Hill had run hard 10 yards and made a sharp cut as the square out route requires?
Nothing differently, I don't think.
Due to the same execution by the wide-out and the QB, the CB would arrive to make the play just the same.
Rounding off the route a couple of yards early allowed Hill to get the open space in the zone early.
If the QB had gotten the ball to him right away, he would have a much better opportunity to make his move before the CB reacted and before the MLB had the chance to drop back into coverage.
I'm not sure whether Hill was required to run the route precisely at 10 yd or he was taught to adjust to coverage the way he did.
All I know is that by going with the latter, he had a chance to gain the first down (if the QB had delivered the ball a little sooner.)
Squaring up the route helps to push the safety back, but since the safety never attempted to play up close, it served no real purpose; the way I see it.
It made no difference to the CB who was the one who made the tackle.
For all we know, Hill might have been running a speed out and not a deep-out.
I've seen a triple-option playbook from Ga. Southern that calls for a speed-out up to 6 yards past the LOS (speed-out doesn't require a square cut.)
With Hill lining up 2 yards behind the LOS and being a tall receiver with long strides, his 5 steps took him to 7 yards, which is not much of a stretch.
The reason it looks like he was "shuffling" was because he wanted to settle in the zone; running further toward the side line would only bring him closer to the LCB.
I disagree with the blogger on the principle "if it's man coverage, you continue with the route, if it's zone, you find a place to sit in the soft spot".
Example Two: 0:15
(3rd and 5) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 13 yards to the NC20, 1ST DOWN GT (Boston, T).
This was the one-handed grab that Lucky showed in one of those vids earlier in the thread.
Replays from different angles showed a fantastic catch (Megatron and AJ Green-type).
Hill ran a wheel route from the left slot, and caught the ball in a fade out position along the side line.
The left wide-out ran a skinny post to sink the RCB deep in cover 3.
Hill stretched his frame to the utmost to reel the ball in, absorbed the hit and kept both feet inbound.
This is the type of catch that shows his potential as an NFL-caliber receiver.
(3rd and 5) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 13 yards to the NC20, 1ST DOWN GT (Boston, T).
This was the one-handed grab that Lucky showed in one of those vids earlier in the thread.
Replays from different angles showed a fantastic catch (Megatron and AJ Green-type).
Hill ran a wheel route from the left slot, and caught the ball in a fade out position along the side line.
The left wide-out ran a skinny post to sink the RCB deep in cover 3.
Hill stretched his frame to the utmost to reel the ball in, absorbed the hit and kept both feet inbound.
This is the type of catch that shows his potential as an NFL-caliber receiver.
The blogger left out this TD catch.
2nd Qtr
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312670059
(1st and 10) GEORGIA TECH drive start at 08:05.
(1st and 10) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 59 yards to the NC0, 1ST DOWN GT, TOUCHDOWN, clock 07:57.
As I've mentioned, to defend Ga Tech triple option, teams sometimes brought the CB up to line, leaving the safety to defend any deep route from the receiver.
If the safety also bought the run, the receiver would run right past him.
This is the case where UNC brought the CB up to the line.
Hill was wide open on a simple go route along the side line.
The pass was behind where Hill had to slow down and turned his body back 90 degree (such that his shoulders were parallel to the side line) to catch the ball with both hands at chest level and pulled it in.
This one went for a TD, but he will drop a similar ball in the 4th qtr.
This was only a 29-yd pass and the QB was already short with the throw, just to make a note.
Wide-open receiver, no pressure.
2nd Qtr
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312670059
(1st and 10) GEORGIA TECH drive start at 08:05.
(1st and 10) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 59 yards to the NC0, 1ST DOWN GT, TOUCHDOWN, clock 07:57.
As I've mentioned, to defend Ga Tech triple option, teams sometimes brought the CB up to line, leaving the safety to defend any deep route from the receiver.
If the safety also bought the run, the receiver would run right past him.
This is the case where UNC brought the CB up to the line.
Hill was wide open on a simple go route along the side line.
The pass was behind where Hill had to slow down and turned his body back 90 degree (such that his shoulders were parallel to the side line) to catch the ball with both hands at chest level and pulled it in.
This one went for a TD, but he will drop a similar ball in the 4th qtr.
This was only a 29-yd pass and the QB was already short with the throw, just to make a note.
Wide-open receiver, no pressure.
Example Three: 1:02
(1st and 10) Timeout Georgia Tech, clock 01:38.
(1st and 10) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 34 yards to the NC5, 1ST DOWN GT, out-of-bounds (Boston, T).
Hill lined up on the left, just inside the number.
He had enough room to run this fade route without having to stem inside, but he did anyway within his first 5 steps.
He pushed the RCB inside, giving him plenty of room along the side line on this deep fade route.
Hill also did a very good job fighting off the hold off the CB (they let 'em play on this one), turned around and caught the ball that was thrown to the outside (as a fade is supposed to be thrown, however slightly underthrown as the blogger mentioned).
Excellent effort by Hill on this one as it required concentration and ball skill (he didn't have time to catch the ball cleanly, but managed to pull it in.)
He never had the chance to adjust to the ball as the CB pulled him back by the jersey above the chest close to his left shoulder pad in an effort to make it difficult for him to turn around.
This is another NFL-caliber big time catch, the way I see it.
In the NFL, a PI would have been called.
The blogger criticized the catch here because he didn't see the hold by the CB (but he did note in example four that Hill didn't have time to extend his arms in this play, which is example 3.)
(1st and 10) Timeout Georgia Tech, clock 01:38.
(1st and 10) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 34 yards to the NC5, 1ST DOWN GT, out-of-bounds (Boston, T).
Hill lined up on the left, just inside the number.
He had enough room to run this fade route without having to stem inside, but he did anyway within his first 5 steps.
He pushed the RCB inside, giving him plenty of room along the side line on this deep fade route.
Hill also did a very good job fighting off the hold off the CB (they let 'em play on this one), turned around and caught the ball that was thrown to the outside (as a fade is supposed to be thrown, however slightly underthrown as the blogger mentioned).
Excellent effort by Hill on this one as it required concentration and ball skill (he didn't have time to catch the ball cleanly, but managed to pull it in.)
He never had the chance to adjust to the ball as the CB pulled him back by the jersey above the chest close to his left shoulder pad in an effort to make it difficult for him to turn around.
This is another NFL-caliber big time catch, the way I see it.
In the NFL, a PI would have been called.
The blogger criticized the catch here because he didn't see the hold by the CB (but he did note in example four that Hill didn't have time to extend his arms in this play, which is example 3.)
BullNation4Life
All Pro
You can teach a player how to catch a ball better, if they are willing to learn...
You can't teach a player to be 6'4 and run a 4.3....
Put this kid under Andre Johnson, he will be a Pro Bowl player by his 5th season...
Book it....
You can't teach a player to be 6'4 and run a 4.3....
Put this kid under Andre Johnson, he will be a Pro Bowl player by his 5th season...
Book it....
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Like Braylon Edwards or Corey Bradford or Jacoby Jones? I could go on for days naming guys who had everything but good hands & failed in the NFL b/c of that. So as you have probably garnered by now, i disagree completely. ..you either have good hands or you dont.
Catching isn't a skill that is honed easily like that...the level of skill needed to be a good hands WR in the NFL where db's are all over you takes alot longer than 5 years and whomever waits for that guy that long to develop into a pro bowl WR is either a moron or they've got GB depth a WR. If we select him, then you already know the answer to that question. Dude will be expected to produce in 2. He should be expected to produce in that time frame anyway if he goes in the 1st. But if this guy can't even handle catching in traffic amongst college cb's, whomever takes him is going to be in for a rude awakening when he gets to the pros.
You never hear of a guy who came into the league with marginal hands, they work hard on catching for a few years & they become a good to great WR let alone 1 who was selected in the 1st round like this guy is projected.
Stay away from this guy Rick PLEASE!!!!!!!!
badboy
Hall of Fame
I have often mentioned in PMs during college seasons to Beerlover how much we think alike and how we evaluate players. However, we often disagree. He is all over Hill while Rmartin65 & I are a bit more reluctant. We break down the same way on LSU's Randle btw.
ALso note that ny comment was I've read defenses often disregarded Hill. I have not seen that myself as I did not watch him. I do appreciate the work you put in on film work.
I'm not comparing Hill (or anyone else) to Andre Johnson. But AJ came into the league as a body catcher with questionable hands. He got better every year. All I'm saying is, never say "never" (whoops, I broke my own rule).
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
That was just a case where scouts were trying to find something.....anything to knock him on..that's pretty much how the scouting process spins out of control at times. here's a few #1 overall picks "knocks"..some real, some imagined.
in 98' the knock on Peyton coming out was that "he couldn't win the big one" & that he'd peaked.
in 01' the knock on Vick was that he wasn't a polished enough passer; runs too much..
in 06' the "knock" on Mario was his motor...
you get my drift. The point i'm trying to make is that I don't think anyone gave serious credence to what you're saying regarding AJ. That was just a case where some dumb ass scout was overthinking during the scouting process..After that NC game he had, i think overall people knew what they were getting when AJ entered the draft...a beast...Stephen Hill.....................not so much & people weren't even thinking about this kid until he showed up in Indy.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Hill is a long, athletic, thoroughbred WR with good sized soft hands who left GT with 25.47 yards per reception, which would have easily broken the school record, but fell one reception short of qualifying for the record book (minimum 50 receptions) all that following in the footsteps of Calvin Johnson & Demaryius Thomas. Unlike those other two big receivers his specialty is his long speed. But Hill is much more than than just a deep threat, he can block, run route tree & is a team player, not a diva, very rare quality. In this offense paired with Andre Johnson he should continue to haul in big receptions, maybe not that many, but enough to probably led the league in yards per reception. Hard to define a value on that but think the results might just justify the risk.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Thanks, back at ya.
Amateur draftniks like us don't have time to follow every team in the country.
I find it's odd that Waldman (from the Q&A thread with TC in the main forum) thinks that Hill is seriously lacking at blocking. He even says that Ga Tech didn't run much toward Hill's side. Not what I saw.
1. Did you see marginal hands from Hill at the combine or in several plays last season?
2. Catching the ball in traffic is one thing; you can't expect a receiver who had to catch the ball with a defender coming straight at him to be able to hold on to the ball every time (due to a late throw by the QB; ie. Andrew Luck's style.)
And when did you notice that Hill didn't do a good job at catching the ball "in traffic"; can you bring up a few examples - there must be several to make you feel so uncomfortable about the guy.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-falcon...s-pro-day/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_falcons_blog
Mayock short video interview of Hill linked above -- get a bit of a sense of who he is.
Georgia Tech's Pro Day was today.
Mayock short video interview of Hill linked above -- get a bit of a sense of who he is.
Georgia Tech's Pro Day was today.
Last edited:
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Here's what i see with this guy:
1..if you call dropping passes when you're wiiiidddeee open then yes i did see marginal hands b/c I hardly saw any "hands" catches at all....not even on hitch routes. i saw nothing from a hands perspective that wowed me & made me think this guy is worthy of a 1st round pick. You can contrast this with almost every WR thought to be going in the 1st 2 rounds & it's not even close honestly. I could care less about the combine b/c you're not playing against anyone out there.
I admit, the catching in traffic thing was more of an educated guess by me considering that the bulk of his catches are made when he's running/sitting wide open. That will be a rarity in the NFL & he'll likely have guys draped all over him. That statement was made more with the thought of him not reacting favorably to this having been wide open all the damn time. When he was covered, more often than not, you hardly ever saw him displaying that obvious superior athleticism to win....if the ball wasn't out in front of him.
Other things i noticed: he doesn't appear to have good awareness with his feet on sideline throws. Even on plays where he got both feet in...he made it look more close than it probably should've been. He also doesn't appear to play as fast as his combine 40 time indicates imo. And all in all, there's just not enough production there to say that GT's offense & qb play was the main thing holding him back. Calvin Johnson played in the same offense if im correct & he was a monster for 2 years.
He reminds me a ton of Roy Williams out of UT. Dude was dubbed a "genetic phenomenon" by scouts & homers alike....got in the pros & well, you know the rest.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
More Mayock on #GeorgiaTech WR Stephen Hill: "I don't think this kid gets out of the 1st round. I think he's a late 1, worst case early 2."
More Mayock on Stephen Hill: "His hands are great. Hands snatcher, catches ball very easily. Drops were about lack of discipline, maturity."
Mayock on Stephen Hill's Pro Day: "Trust me folks, he helped himself. ... For 6'4/215, he's got great feet. Great job in & out of breaks."
More Mayock on #GeorgiaTech WR Stephen Hill: "I don't think this kid gets out of the 1st round. I think he's a late 1, worst case early 2."
More Mayock on Stephen Hill: "His hands are great. Hands snatcher, catches ball very easily. Drops were about lack of discipline, maturity."
Mayock on Stephen Hill's Pro Day: "Trust me folks, he helped himself. ... For 6'4/215, he's got great feet. Great job in & out of breaks."
Mayock saw him pretty much the same as I do; I'm at week 8 right now, but there's still 5 more games to observe. The rating I had on Hill still stands.
More film study on Hill.
(Continuation of the UNC game).
3rd Qtr
(3rd and 5) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 25 yards to the GT49, 1ST DOWN GT (Merletti, M;Boston, T).
Hill lined up in the left slot (there was a wide-out on his outside) and ran a curl route.
Hill did a good job finding the soft spot in the 3-deep zone, turned to the inside, but reached back somewhat to catch the ball to the outside.
This was supposed to be a inside curl route, but Hill ended up catching the ball to the outside (hence adjustment) due to the fact that the sinking LB did a good job tipping the ball barely off his fingertips.
I couldn't tell for sure from the freeze frames whether the LB actually touched the ball, but at the least, he was very close to it.
And the trajectory of the ball seemed to be a little off line.
Instead of giving Hill credit for his concentration, the blogger "lamented" that Hill "body-caught" the ball. I think that's over-scrutinizing.
...
The next play was around the 6:10 mark in the third quarter;
it was in the blogger's video, but he didn't mention it.
(1st and 10) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 8 yards to the GT39 (Smith, J;Lipford, D).
Hill lined up wide to the right and caught a simple swing pass.
He did a good job making 2 guys missed, but the third guy came (and one of the guys who missed also came back.)
This play showed Hill's hip flexibility as he made the cuts and turns.
That was a pretty wicked cut he put on the LCB there.
He made the last 5-6 yards on his own, dragging defenders with him.
That is as strong as I've seen from any receiver in this draft class.
Also, on the replay, notice the double move he put on at the beginning of the route. He induced the CB to open up his hip and take a couple of steps back. That was enough to hold off the CB away from the LOS for Hill to catch the ball (seperation.)
There were a couple "NFL" moves in that one short play.
.......
The next play wasn't in the video' it was similar to the previous play.
It shows that Hill knows how to make it easier for him to catch the swing pass.
(1st and 10) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S..
Hill lined up just inside the numbers on the left, on the opposite side from the above-mentioned swing pass.
He took a long faked step forward then retreated to wait for the swing pass.
Again, he induced the CB to open up his hip and moving backward.
The QB threw the ball forward past the LOS, way too far for Hill to catch the ball.
The CB reacted back very well even after the good move by Hill.
This one was on the QB.
Hill can run routes better than he's giving credit for.
(Continuation of the UNC game).
3rd Qtr
(3rd and 5) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 25 yards to the GT49, 1ST DOWN GT (Merletti, M;Boston, T).
Hill lined up in the left slot (there was a wide-out on his outside) and ran a curl route.
Hill did a good job finding the soft spot in the 3-deep zone, turned to the inside, but reached back somewhat to catch the ball to the outside.
This was supposed to be a inside curl route, but Hill ended up catching the ball to the outside (hence adjustment) due to the fact that the sinking LB did a good job tipping the ball barely off his fingertips.
I couldn't tell for sure from the freeze frames whether the LB actually touched the ball, but at the least, he was very close to it.
And the trajectory of the ball seemed to be a little off line.
Instead of giving Hill credit for his concentration, the blogger "lamented" that Hill "body-caught" the ball. I think that's over-scrutinizing.
...
The next play was around the 6:10 mark in the third quarter;
it was in the blogger's video, but he didn't mention it.
(1st and 10) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 8 yards to the GT39 (Smith, J;Lipford, D).
Hill lined up wide to the right and caught a simple swing pass.
He did a good job making 2 guys missed, but the third guy came (and one of the guys who missed also came back.)
This play showed Hill's hip flexibility as he made the cuts and turns.
That was a pretty wicked cut he put on the LCB there.
He made the last 5-6 yards on his own, dragging defenders with him.
That is as strong as I've seen from any receiver in this draft class.
Also, on the replay, notice the double move he put on at the beginning of the route. He induced the CB to open up his hip and take a couple of steps back. That was enough to hold off the CB away from the LOS for Hill to catch the ball (seperation.)
There were a couple "NFL" moves in that one short play.
.......
The next play wasn't in the video' it was similar to the previous play.
It shows that Hill knows how to make it easier for him to catch the swing pass.
(1st and 10) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S..
Hill lined up just inside the numbers on the left, on the opposite side from the above-mentioned swing pass.
He took a long faked step forward then retreated to wait for the swing pass.
Again, he induced the CB to open up his hip and moving backward.
The QB threw the ball forward past the LOS, way too far for Hill to catch the ball.
The CB reacted back very well even after the good move by Hill.
This one was on the QB.
Hill can run routes better than he's giving credit for.
4th Qtr
This is the dropped pass that the blogger mentioned in his last example.
(2nd and 7) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S., dropped pass
This is another case where UNC brought the CB up to the line.
Hill was wide open again on another simple go route along the side line.
The pass was slightly behind where Hill had to slow down just a tad and turned back slightly.
There was no excuse for the drop, however.
This is fixable (I hope, LOL).
With more practice, he should learn to adjust his position on the field so that he can catch the ball a little further away from his body and pull it in.
In this instance, he was just waiting for the ball to come to him and catch it wherever the ball happened to arrive.
Also, we want to take into account that the QB can always do a better job leading the receiver as to put Hill in a better position to catch the ball in stride (he was wide open and had not ran that far downfield.)
That was just a 30-yard pass attempt inside number.
An NFL QB has to do better than that.
Again, no excuse for the drop though.
....
Side Note:
Dwight Jones looks solid, but nothing spectacular.
Coples didn't do much; Tech ran away from him quite a bit.
This is the dropped pass that the blogger mentioned in his last example.
(2nd and 7) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S., dropped pass
This is another case where UNC brought the CB up to the line.
Hill was wide open again on another simple go route along the side line.
The pass was slightly behind where Hill had to slow down just a tad and turned back slightly.
There was no excuse for the drop, however.
This is fixable (I hope, LOL).
With more practice, he should learn to adjust his position on the field so that he can catch the ball a little further away from his body and pull it in.
In this instance, he was just waiting for the ball to come to him and catch it wherever the ball happened to arrive.
Also, we want to take into account that the QB can always do a better job leading the receiver as to put Hill in a better position to catch the ball in stride (he was wide open and had not ran that far downfield.)
That was just a 30-yard pass attempt inside number.
An NFL QB has to do better than that.
Again, no excuse for the drop though.
....
Side Note:
Dwight Jones looks solid, but nothing spectacular.
Coples didn't do much; Tech ran away from him quite a bit.
Week 5 vs NC St.
(I also watched this game.)
Washington was 4-12 in passing.
Hill was thrown at twice.
The QB missed badly on a wide-open receiver down the middle on a "sure" TD pass.
Hill caught the other pass for 40 yards.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312740152
That was a good move by Hill, faking to catch a swing pass.
As Hill turned to the inside to look at the QB, the CB bit the fake;
Hill bursted down the side line with plenty of seperation.
It was a good catch with extension of the arms.
(I also watched this game.)
Washington was 4-12 in passing.
Hill was thrown at twice.
The QB missed badly on a wide-open receiver down the middle on a "sure" TD pass.
Hill caught the other pass for 40 yards.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312740152
That was a good move by Hill, faking to catch a swing pass.
As Hill turned to the inside to look at the QB, the CB bit the fake;
Hill bursted down the side line with plenty of seperation.
It was a good catch with extension of the arms.
The next play occured about 12 sec before the half:
(3rd and 10) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S.
QB missed the wide open receiver badly to the inside.
Either NC St. were in inverted cover 2 (CBs pkayed deep, safeties played underneath) or both safeties bought the play fake big time.
Hill ran a great post route.
Just remember all the 2-man route I had talked about last year or the Galloway 63-yd catch.
Hill split wide (outside the numbers); CB played 8 yds off.
He stemmed outside (faking a go route) to open up the CB to gain seperation as he (Hill) turned back to the inside.
The CB had depth (invert cover 2 and playing off the LOS) but he couldn't manage the width. Hill was a good 2-3 yards away from the CB.
- Announcer "How can you not have some one back (there) helping on the inside. There's no way the coaching staff drew a defensive coverage up like that. You can't get any more open than that on a post route. You've got to have a safety in the middle of the field and they have nobody."
...
With a speedy guy like Hill, the safety ought to have good speed and anticipation as when to drop back; otherwise, he wouldn't be able to help in invert-cover 2.
Through 5 games, I noticed only one drop.
We also can see that Hill can run quite a few different routes and he did well running most of those routes.
They weren't simply routes where he blindly run upfield.
The early progonsis after these 5 games are good, to me at least.
(3rd and 10) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S.
QB missed the wide open receiver badly to the inside.
Either NC St. were in inverted cover 2 (CBs pkayed deep, safeties played underneath) or both safeties bought the play fake big time.
Hill ran a great post route.
Just remember all the 2-man route I had talked about last year or the Galloway 63-yd catch.
Hill split wide (outside the numbers); CB played 8 yds off.
He stemmed outside (faking a go route) to open up the CB to gain seperation as he (Hill) turned back to the inside.
The CB had depth (invert cover 2 and playing off the LOS) but he couldn't manage the width. Hill was a good 2-3 yards away from the CB.
- Announcer "How can you not have some one back (there) helping on the inside. There's no way the coaching staff drew a defensive coverage up like that. You can't get any more open than that on a post route. You've got to have a safety in the middle of the field and they have nobody."
...
With a speedy guy like Hill, the safety ought to have good speed and anticipation as when to drop back; otherwise, he wouldn't be able to help in invert-cover 2.
Through 5 games, I noticed only one drop.
We also can see that Hill can run quite a few different routes and he did well running most of those routes.
They weren't simply routes where he blindly run upfield.
The early progonsis after these 5 games are good, to me at least.
Week 6 vs. Maryland
(I watched this game).
1st qtr
Good blocking by Hill on 3 running plays to his side in Tech's first series.
On 3rd and 5, they scored as the QB scrambled to the outside.
Hill had ran a good slant and had seperation from the CB with a double move and fought off the jam quickly, but the QB already decided to run.
....
Second series
On a run play, Hill ran a good post route, taking away both the CB and the safety.
...
3rd and 11) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 16 yards to the 50 yardline, 1ST DOWN GT, out-of-bounds (Chism).
Right slot receiver ran a short hook @ 7yd
Wide-out Hill lined up just inside the numbers and ran some kind of a seam route (can't see cleraly downfield).
As the QB was chased toward the side line, Hill adjusted and came back toward the side line and caught the ball as if it was a deep out but come back (due to adjustment) type of pass for 16 yards.
Hill must have pressed the CB pretty hard to be able to get that much seperation as he came back toward the sideline for the ball.
...
(1st and 10) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S..
Hill lined up outside the numbers and ran an deep outside route;
he stemmed slightly to the inside to move the CB, giving himself plenty of room along the side line (some 6 yards or so) and he had more than a step on the LCB.
The pass was thrown behind and to the inside.
(A correct throw should have been long and to the outside.)
LCB was able to put a hand up in front of the pass; enough to distract Hill from catching the ball.
Some may attempt call this a drop ball; but that won't be my opinion.
It was just a poorly-thrown pass.
Hill had more than a step on the receiver and all the room to the outside.
(I watched this game).
1st qtr
Good blocking by Hill on 3 running plays to his side in Tech's first series.
On 3rd and 5, they scored as the QB scrambled to the outside.
Hill had ran a good slant and had seperation from the CB with a double move and fought off the jam quickly, but the QB already decided to run.
....
Second series
On a run play, Hill ran a good post route, taking away both the CB and the safety.
...
3rd and 11) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 16 yards to the 50 yardline, 1ST DOWN GT, out-of-bounds (Chism).
Right slot receiver ran a short hook @ 7yd
Wide-out Hill lined up just inside the numbers and ran some kind of a seam route (can't see cleraly downfield).
As the QB was chased toward the side line, Hill adjusted and came back toward the side line and caught the ball as if it was a deep out but come back (due to adjustment) type of pass for 16 yards.
Hill must have pressed the CB pretty hard to be able to get that much seperation as he came back toward the sideline for the ball.
...
(1st and 10) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S..
Hill lined up outside the numbers and ran an deep outside route;
he stemmed slightly to the inside to move the CB, giving himself plenty of room along the side line (some 6 yards or so) and he had more than a step on the LCB.
The pass was thrown behind and to the inside.
(A correct throw should have been long and to the outside.)
LCB was able to put a hand up in front of the pass; enough to distract Hill from catching the ball.
Some may attempt call this a drop ball; but that won't be my opinion.
It was just a poorly-thrown pass.
Hill had more than a step on the receiver and all the room to the outside.
Second qtr
(1st and 10) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S..
Hill with a shuffling move at the LOS to hold off the CB (we've seen this before);
the swing pass, however, was short and nose dived into the ground in front of him.
...
1st and 10) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S..
Hill ran a post route, this time on the left side.
The two-deep safeties came down, leaving Hill in one-on-one with the RCB.
Hill had at least a step on the CB and all the room to the inside, but the ball was just long and out of reach (not enough air under it - as the analyst suggested.) It was roughly a 40-yd pass.
Ball didn't have a good spin on it either.
This QB underthrows the ball quite often to other receivers too.
The safeties did get back but they would need to read the play action really well and very quickly if they were to help in the middle... and they need to be fast, too.
Manning and Quin, for example, are pretty fast (for the safety position); I'm not quite sure they can get back in time on such a fast receiver like Hill on this play.
....
2nd and 10) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S.
With 30 secs to go in the half, the D stayed back in coverage;
Hill was in double coverage and might have been interfered with by a DB (he and the crowd wanted a call, but none was forthcoming).
The ball was nowhere near; that's probably why.
(1st and 10) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S..
Hill with a shuffling move at the LOS to hold off the CB (we've seen this before);
the swing pass, however, was short and nose dived into the ground in front of him.
...
1st and 10) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S..
Hill ran a post route, this time on the left side.
The two-deep safeties came down, leaving Hill in one-on-one with the RCB.
Hill had at least a step on the CB and all the room to the inside, but the ball was just long and out of reach (not enough air under it - as the analyst suggested.) It was roughly a 40-yd pass.
Ball didn't have a good spin on it either.
This QB underthrows the ball quite often to other receivers too.
The safeties did get back but they would need to read the play action really well and very quickly if they were to help in the middle... and they need to be fast, too.
Manning and Quin, for example, are pretty fast (for the safety position); I'm not quite sure they can get back in time on such a fast receiver like Hill on this play.
....
2nd and 10) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S.
With 30 secs to go in the half, the D stayed back in coverage;
Hill was in double coverage and might have been interfered with by a DB (he and the crowd wanted a call, but none was forthcoming).
The ball was nowhere near; that's probably why.
3rd qtr
More good blockings by Hill in the running game (several plays).
At 6:15
(2nd and 15) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 34 yards to the MD49, 1ST DOWN GT (Vellano).
Highlights on ESPN
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312810059
It's difficult to see the route, but it's look like Hill ran a square in, found the zone, and made 4 or 5 guys miss.
Nice moves by such a tall and lanky guy, making cut after cut.
...
(3rd and 19) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S. (McDougle).
Deep come back route.
QB got hit as he threw the pass; ball sailed just high, and a tad late.
CB just needed to make contact. Ball was probably too high in the first place; Hlll probably wouldn't be able to catch the ball even without the CB making the contact.
More good blockings by Hill in the running game (several plays).
At 6:15
(2nd and 15) Washington, T. pass complete to Hill, S. for 34 yards to the MD49, 1ST DOWN GT (Vellano).
Highlights on ESPN
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312810059
It's difficult to see the route, but it's look like Hill ran a square in, found the zone, and made 4 or 5 guys miss.
Nice moves by such a tall and lanky guy, making cut after cut.
...
(3rd and 19) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S. (McDougle).
Deep come back route.
QB got hit as he threw the pass; ball sailed just high, and a tad late.
CB just needed to make contact. Ball was probably too high in the first place; Hlll probably wouldn't be able to catch the ball even without the CB making the contact.
Week 7 vs Va
Tech was only 2-8 for 24 yards and 2 Ints in the passing game.
Hill had one run for 24.
He did not have a catch.
...
First qtr
(1st and 20) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S. (McLeod,R).
From the right slot, Hill ran a quick slant.
He lined up just outside the right hashmarks, went up 5 yards and started making the cut behind the LB.
The ball was thrown way too late (a few steps after he crossed the hashmarks on the other side - into the teeth of zone coverage with the safety also coming up). The ball needed to be thrown before he crossed the hashmark (in the soft spot of the zone and before the safety had time to come up and the RCB to come over.)
As two guys converged on him hi-low; Hill tried to put one hand out to brace his fall and couldn't hang on to the ball with the other hand. He was falling on top of the safety who momentum caused him to undercut Hill from the back side.
The official book did not call a drop ball here, but a fan can always do that.
In the NFL, they don't allow a hi-lo tackle combo like that.
I don't think one guy can undercut a receiver while the other hit him high.
....
Same series
(3rd and 12) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S..
Against press coverage, Hill fought off the LCB's jam to get outside release and was heading down the side line when the QB got hit just as he threw the ball ; ball had no chance to reach the target - can't see how much room Hill had over the CB.
Tech was only 2-8 for 24 yards and 2 Ints in the passing game.
Hill had one run for 24.
He did not have a catch.
...
First qtr
(1st and 20) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S. (McLeod,R).
From the right slot, Hill ran a quick slant.
He lined up just outside the right hashmarks, went up 5 yards and started making the cut behind the LB.
The ball was thrown way too late (a few steps after he crossed the hashmarks on the other side - into the teeth of zone coverage with the safety also coming up). The ball needed to be thrown before he crossed the hashmark (in the soft spot of the zone and before the safety had time to come up and the RCB to come over.)
As two guys converged on him hi-low; Hill tried to put one hand out to brace his fall and couldn't hang on to the ball with the other hand. He was falling on top of the safety who momentum caused him to undercut Hill from the back side.
The official book did not call a drop ball here, but a fan can always do that.
In the NFL, they don't allow a hi-lo tackle combo like that.
I don't think one guy can undercut a receiver while the other hit him high.
....
Same series
(3rd and 12) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S..
Against press coverage, Hill fought off the LCB's jam to get outside release and was heading down the side line when the QB got hit just as he threw the ball ; ball had no chance to reach the target - can't see how much room Hill had over the CB.
2nd qtr
(1st and 10) GEORGIA TECH drive start at 14:57.
(1st and 10) Hill, S. rush for 24 yards to the GT44, 1ST DOWN GT (Minnifield,C).
On the reverse, Hill's explosiveness got him past the back side DE (#56) - who showed good hip flexibility - check this guy out). Hill also showed his fluidity in planting and cutting like a RB.
....
1st and 10) Washington, T. pass intercepted by Minnifield,C at the VA40, Minnifield,C return 0 yards to the VA40 (Hill, S.).
Hill lined up wide, between the numbers and the side line and ran a simple fly route down the side line.
Minnifield intercepted the ball 33 yards downfield, just outside the numbers.
It was just a poorly thrown ball by the QB.
The ball needed to be at most 3 yards from the sideline (instead of 7 yards as it was.)
Minnifield was in phase with Hill; it would have been interesting with a good pass here.
...
Side Note:
Minnifield looked pretty good (nice deep backpedal), smooth turns.
Good awareness in both run support and coverage.
But it's only a game (I've seen some the previous year - I've had him on my radar ever since.)
(1st and 10) GEORGIA TECH drive start at 14:57.
(1st and 10) Hill, S. rush for 24 yards to the GT44, 1ST DOWN GT (Minnifield,C).
On the reverse, Hill's explosiveness got him past the back side DE (#56) - who showed good hip flexibility - check this guy out). Hill also showed his fluidity in planting and cutting like a RB.
....
1st and 10) Washington, T. pass intercepted by Minnifield,C at the VA40, Minnifield,C return 0 yards to the VA40 (Hill, S.).
Hill lined up wide, between the numbers and the side line and ran a simple fly route down the side line.
Minnifield intercepted the ball 33 yards downfield, just outside the numbers.
It was just a poorly thrown ball by the QB.
The ball needed to be at most 3 yards from the sideline (instead of 7 yards as it was.)
Minnifield was in phase with Hill; it would have been interesting with a good pass here.
...
Side Note:
Minnifield looked pretty good (nice deep backpedal), smooth turns.
Good awareness in both run support and coverage.
But it's only a game (I've seen some the previous year - I've had him on my radar ever since.)
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
the bolded only applies to defensive lineman in the trenches where room is limited. If a DL-man is actively engaged with an o-lineman up high, no other OL-man can intentionally hit said DL-man low at the same time; this prevents guys from getting rolled up on or getting their knees torn up.
It still happens on occasion accidentally (allegedly) but there is a rule in place to prevent it from becoming part of strategy.
everyone else out in the field where space is plentiful are fair game however.
Week 8 vs Miami
Tech's pair of QBs were 7-14 for 77 yards and 1 INT
Hill caught a lone pass for 9 yards.
He was paid attention to enough as the Canes double-teamed him from time to time.
...
(2nd and 7) Jones, R. rush for 34 yards to the UM43 (Nicolas, J.), PENALTY GT personal foul off-setting, PENALTY UM personal foul off-setting, NO PLAY.
On this play, Hill lined up tight in the slot; he put on a seal block on a LB (#52) and kept him engaged for a long time, giving the RB plenty of room on the outside.
...
Side note:
I'm including some observations on WR Streeter (Miami) here as well.
I will put these notes in Italic.
(2nd and 10) Harris, J. pass complete to Streeter, T. for 48 yards to the GT31, 1ST DOWN UM (Watts, B.).
Streeter found the open space in a 3-3 zone (5-man blitz) and show fluidity in movement and a good second burst after the cut.
He ran a good square-in route with good stemming, and stuck/planted his left foot nicely before making the sharp cut to the inside.
...
(2nd and 9) Washington, T. pass complete to Peeples, E. for 16 yards to the GT25, 1ST DOWN GT (McGee, B.).
On the other side, Hill ran a hook route from the left slot and sat in the zone (about 13 yards from the LOS), after getting passed-off by the LB, and was wide-open.
...
....
(3rd and 5) Washington, T. pass complete to Smith, O. for 9 yards to the GT39, 1ST DOWN GT (Robinson, M.).
Hill took the double-team deep, allowing an easy swing pass to the RB in the flat.
...
(3rd and 4) Smith, O. rush for 8 yards to the UM1, 1ST DOWN GT (Armstrong, R.).
Hill went downfield and neutralized the safety Telemaque (6'2-207) completely
deep into the end zone.
The run gave Tech first and goal to go at the one.
...
(1st and 10) Harris, J. pass complete to Streeter, T. for 32 yards to the GT14, 1ST DOWN UM (Reid, R.).
Poor coverage allowed Streeter to be wide-open up the middle from the inside left slot..
The pass was a little late; Streeter was waiting and waiting; he had just enough time to catch the ball, turned around, and braced himself for the hit from the safety.
Good job protecting himself and the ball.
...
(1st and 10) Harris, J. pass incomplete to Streeter, T. (Johnson, I.).
Streeter ran a decent post-corner route in the red zone (14-yd line); he could have done better in the foot sticking/planting part before the break to keep the safety a little further away.
The pass was pretty late and off-target (way short), allowing the safety to recover and deflected the pass near the side line.
On his part, Streeter probably should have come back to the ball a little stronger to make sure the safety doesn't have a chance to intercept the ball.
Tech's pair of QBs were 7-14 for 77 yards and 1 INT
Hill caught a lone pass for 9 yards.
He was paid attention to enough as the Canes double-teamed him from time to time.
...
(2nd and 7) Jones, R. rush for 34 yards to the UM43 (Nicolas, J.), PENALTY GT personal foul off-setting, PENALTY UM personal foul off-setting, NO PLAY.
On this play, Hill lined up tight in the slot; he put on a seal block on a LB (#52) and kept him engaged for a long time, giving the RB plenty of room on the outside.
...
Side note:
I'm including some observations on WR Streeter (Miami) here as well.
I will put these notes in Italic.
(2nd and 10) Harris, J. pass complete to Streeter, T. for 48 yards to the GT31, 1ST DOWN UM (Watts, B.).
Streeter found the open space in a 3-3 zone (5-man blitz) and show fluidity in movement and a good second burst after the cut.
He ran a good square-in route with good stemming, and stuck/planted his left foot nicely before making the sharp cut to the inside.
...
(2nd and 9) Washington, T. pass complete to Peeples, E. for 16 yards to the GT25, 1ST DOWN GT (McGee, B.).
On the other side, Hill ran a hook route from the left slot and sat in the zone (about 13 yards from the LOS), after getting passed-off by the LB, and was wide-open.
...
....
(3rd and 5) Washington, T. pass complete to Smith, O. for 9 yards to the GT39, 1ST DOWN GT (Robinson, M.).
Hill took the double-team deep, allowing an easy swing pass to the RB in the flat.
...
(3rd and 4) Smith, O. rush for 8 yards to the UM1, 1ST DOWN GT (Armstrong, R.).
Hill went downfield and neutralized the safety Telemaque (6'2-207) completely
deep into the end zone.
The run gave Tech first and goal to go at the one.
...
(1st and 10) Harris, J. pass complete to Streeter, T. for 32 yards to the GT14, 1ST DOWN UM (Reid, R.).
Poor coverage allowed Streeter to be wide-open up the middle from the inside left slot..
The pass was a little late; Streeter was waiting and waiting; he had just enough time to catch the ball, turned around, and braced himself for the hit from the safety.
Good job protecting himself and the ball.
...
(1st and 10) Harris, J. pass incomplete to Streeter, T. (Johnson, I.).
Streeter ran a decent post-corner route in the red zone (14-yd line); he could have done better in the foot sticking/planting part before the break to keep the safety a little further away.
The pass was pretty late and off-target (way short), allowing the safety to recover and deflected the pass near the side line.
On his part, Streeter probably should have come back to the ball a little stronger to make sure the safety doesn't have a chance to intercept the ball.