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State of the O-line

Texansballer74 said:
My bad. I was not trying to come at you in the wrong manner. I know it's your opinion. Just asked why you feel that way or how did you formulate that conclusion. Especially when we haven't seen any real time action. My thing is the tackle positions have been the weakest links on that line for a few years now. So to me it's very strange we drafted two tackles just to plug them at guard.
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I totally get the frustration/questioning of drafting two tackles and playing them almost exclusively to this point as guards. I just think at this point starting the 2019 season, they make the overall line better at guards than they would at tackles. Some here advocate that we just keep the same interior that we had for last season and put the rookies on the edges, because that is where they were drafted for so that is the only option we should consider in improving the OL. I simply don't see how that improves the line at all. At least with Howard-Fulton-Sharping inside, we still have a gap on the outside (which we would still have with the rookies being out there) but we would be better on the interior than Kelemente-Martin-Fulton. We could be good inside instead of being average to below average across the entire line.
 
steelbtexan said:
Look at the Texans as an example. They usually hit in some form or fashion on 1st Rd picks, excluding KJo.

The 2nd and especially the 3rd Rd is where the Texans have been terrible since their inception.
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Scharpring is not a first rounder.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/80918122
the reality is that recently few young offensive linemen have truly excelled in recent years.


Eric Fisher and Luke Joeckel, the No. 1 and No. 2 picks in the 2013 draft by the Kansas City Chiefs and Jacksonville Jaguars, respectively, have both struggled in their first three seasons, and the top lineman in the 2014 draft, Rams’ tackle Greg Robinson, has not lived up to expectations.

Young stars are rare, like Pittsburgh Steelers guard David DeCastro and a pair of Cowboys, center Travis Fredrick and guard Zack Martin, who are the only offensive linemen drafted since 2012 to be original Pro Bowl selections.
 
sandman said:
I totally get the frustration/questioning of drafting two tackles and playing them almost exclusively to this point as guards. I just think at this point starting the 2019 season, they make the overall line better at guards than they would at tackles. Some here advocate that we just keep the same interior that we had for last season and put the rookies on the edges, because that is where they were drafted for so that is the only option we should consider in improving the OL. I simply don't see how that improves the line at all. At least with Howard-Fulton-Sharping inside, we still have a gap on the outside (which we would still have with the rookies being out there) but we would be better on the interior than Kelemente-Martin-Fulton. We could be good inside instead of being average to below average across the entire line.
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Agreed
 
sandman said:
I totally get the frustration/questioning of drafting two tackles and playing them almost exclusively to this point as guards. I just think at this point starting the 2019 season, they make the overall line better at guards than they would at tackles. Some here advocate that we just keep the same interior that we had for last season and put the rookies on the edges, because that is where they were drafted for so that is the only option we should consider in improving the OL. I simply don't see how that improves the line at all. At least with Howard-Fulton-Sharping inside, we still have a gap on the outside (which we would still have with the rookies being out there) but we would be better on the interior than Kelemente-Martin-Fulton. We could be good inside instead of being average to below average across the entire line.
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I was honestly hoping we would address the interior more so than the edges. Not because I thought we were good on the edges, but because we were so bad in the middle, pass pro & run blocking.

My thinking is if we can't win in the middle of the line we're one dimensional before the game even starts. If we can't force an 8 man box it makes the passing game too difficult, especially when the short/intermediate passing attack is nonexistent.

That said, I didn't want them to draft tackles to play Guard.
 
thunderkyss said:
I was honestly hoping we would address the interior more so than the edges. Not because I thought we were good on the edges, but because we were so bad in the middle, pass pro & run blocking.

My thinking is if we can't win in the middle of the line we're one dimensional before the game even starts. If we can't force an 8 man box it makes the passing game too difficult, especially when the short/intermediate passing attack is nonexistent.

That said, I didn't want them to draft tackles to play Guard.
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Agree with everything you said.
 
BOB likes versatility. Scharping was punting and Howard was playing corner last practice.

In all seriousness - I'm actually going to give OB a pass to some extent on these two for various reasons. And being strong inside is not a bad thing. At times, Watson couldn't step up into the pocket.
 
sandman said:
I totally get the frustration/questioning of drafting two tackles and playing them almost exclusively to this point as guards. I just think at this point starting the 2019 season, they make the overall line better at guards than they would at tackles. Some here advocate that we just keep the same interior that we had for last season and put the rookies on the edges, because that is where they were drafted for so that is the only option we should consider in improving the OL. I simply don't see how that improves the line at all. At least with Howard-Fulton-Sharping inside, we still have a gap on the outside (which we would still have with the rookies being out there) but we would be better on the interior than Kelemente-Martin-Fulton. We could be good inside instead of being average to below average across the entire line.
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I am advocate for Howard -FUlton-Scharping but think Kalil is gone with R.John and Davenport as LTs. Tomorrow should provide a clearer picture but from what I've seen I am good with RJohn and Howard starting LT and LG. I want to see more of Malcom Pridgeon at OG as I believe Scharpie will move to RT sooner than later.

Pridgeon played in all 28 Ohio State games over the past two seasons, starting every game at guard in 2018 and leading all players with 1,170 snaps from scrimmage.

Despite an offense that set an Ohio State record with 561 passing attempts this past year, Pridgeon and the Buckeye offensive line allowed the third- fewest sacks in the Big Ten.
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blocking fore Dwayne Haskins. https://www.thelantern.com/2019/04/...-with-houston-texans-as-undrafted-free-agent/
 
All kidding aside I’m fully in Roderick Johnson corner to succeed as Texan LT. He is the best and most realistic hope for 2019 season. He’s proven in College @ a much higher level than Howard he is a starting LT. He came out a year too early so he winded up taking a step back and wasn’t prepared for NFL size and speed. Then he was in Cleveland system, enough said. This is like a second chance and he sure looks the part now.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/houseo...n-matt-kalil-ready-steal-left-tackle-job/amp/
 
sandman said:
I totally get the frustration/questioning of drafting two tackles and playing them almost exclusively to this point as guards. I just think at this point starting the 2019 season, they make the overall line better at guards than they would at tackles. Some here advocate that we just keep the same interior that we had for last season and put the rookies on the edges, because that is where they were drafted for so that is the only option we should consider in improving the OL. I simply don't see how that improves the line at all. At least with Howard-Fulton-Sharping inside, we still have a gap on the outside (which we would still have with the rookies being out there) but we would be better on the interior than Kelemente-Martin-Fulton. We could be good inside instead of being average to below average across the entire line.
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Where they're at now, I agree. Not much you can do about it now. I advocate knowing what the hell they're doing at a draft and not having to get to the point they're at now going, oops, well, let's try these guys inside and see what happens. That would be something, wouldn't it?
 
thunderkyss said:
I was honestly hoping we would address the interior more so than the edges. Not because I thought we were good on the edges, but because we were so bad in the middle, pass pro & run blocking.

My thinking is if we can't win in the middle of the line we're one dimensional before the game even starts. If we can't force an 8 man box it makes the passing game too difficult, especially when the short/intermediate passing attack is nonexistent.

That said, I didn't want them to draft tackles to play Guard.
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To be fair I don’t recall them actually saying they were drafting them as tackles. In fact as I recall Gaine actually came out and said they didn’t yet know where they were going to play them.

Being listed as tackles was either how the draft listed them or how their agent did, not sure how that works, but it’s not actually how the Texans listed them. Most BoB said that night is Watson needs bodyguards, not Watson needs a bodyguard at left tackle and that’s you.
 
I’m not sure why people get wigged out about where Howard and Scharping are playing. It’s not uncommon for college tackles to play inside in the NFL. Chester Pitts played really well at G despite being a T in college, and Marshall Yanda has been a perennial pro bowler at G after playing RT in college. I don’t care where these guys play as long as they’re good. I haven’t focused enough on Scharping to form an opinion yet, but I believe Howard is strong enough with enough dog in him to be a great G and I believe he’s feet are quick enough to be a good T as well. If we end up with 2 good lineman from this draft then I’ll be happy. Plus we all know, QBs hate pressure up the middle. I have no issue showing up the inside to protect DW
 
otisbean said:
I’m not sure why people get wigged out about where Howard and Scharping are playing. It’s not uncommon for college tackles to play inside in the NFL. Chester Pitts played really well at G despite being a T in college, and Marshall Yanda has been a perennial pro bowler at G after playing RT in college. I don’t care where these guys play as long as they’re good. I haven’t focused enough on Scharping to form an opinion yet, but I believe Howard is strong enough with enough dog in him to be a great G and I believe he’s feet are quick enough to be a good T as well. If we end up with 2 good lineman from this draft then I’ll be happy. Plus we all know, QBs hate pressure up the middle. I have no issue showing up the inside to protect DW
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People are wigged out because they drafted for need but the need was tackles. We have serviceable guards.
 
Did you guys see the Giants rookie QB get absolutely crushed by poor offensive tackle play the other night? Im thankful that Watson can actually escape and make plays on the run, but all it takes is one blindside, blown assignment for all this to come crashing down, and God forbid that happens- what will be the excuse then? "well we had to try something, poor Obrien just doesnt have the talent he needs .. just give him another 2 drafts, another couple of all pro's and THEN he should be able to get to the AFCS" after watching Kalil get beat like a drum all camp, and then get sat out for load management, how can anybody advocate that he and Henderson should be given the task to protect WAtson? With rookies out there you have the growing pains curve, you have the ability to swallow poor performances, with Kalil and Henderson they are not getting better, they are not getting anyone else better by their play. For OBrien to just get pissy and say its his way or the highway is foolhardy.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Did you guys see the Giants rookie QB get absolutely crushed by poor offensive tackle play the other night? Im thankful that Watson can actually escape and make plays on the run, but all it takes is one blindside, blown assignment for all this to come crashing down, and God forbid that happens- what will be the excuse then? "well we had to try something, poor Obrien just doesnt have the talent he needs .. just give him another 2 drafts, another couple of all pro's and THEN he should be able to get to the AFCS" after watching Kalil get beat like a drum all camp, and then get sat out for load management, how can anybody advocate that he and Henderson should be given the task to protect WAtson? With rookies out there you have the growing pains curve, you have the ability to swallow poor performances, with Kalil and Henderson they are not getting better, they are not getting anyone else better by their play. For OBrien to just get pissy and say its his way or the highway is foolhardy.
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Yep just takes one hit. Kalil, Seantrel and two rookies are easily capable of blowing multiple plays in one half.
 
JB said:
Neither Kelemente nor Fulton stayed healthy last year and the interior of the line hardly looked serviceable

Granted, tackles were horrible but we never got a chance to see Henderson
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Well with those guys plus martin and Mancz there should be enough to make the interior almost average. I don't see rookies upgrading that situation until they get more experience.

Kalil and Seantrel haven't been good in years if ever while those guys have shown they can play
 
Uncle Rico said:
Did you guys see the Giants rookie QB get absolutely crushed by poor offensive tackle play the other night?
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Nate Solder didn't have a good game either. I know he wasn't in the game when Jones got crushed, just another observation.

He didn't look as bad as Davenport last year, but he's definitely got some consistency issues.
 
TheKDog said:
Well with those guys plus martin and Mancz there should be enough to make the interior almost average. I don't see rookies upgrading that situation until they get more experience.
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But they obviously weren't

Kalil and Seantrel haven't been good in years if ever while those guys have shown they can play
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No, but that doesn't speak to last year
 
JB said:
But they obviously weren't



No, but that doesn't speak to last year
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If those guys weren't what are the chances two rookies will? That speaks to an issue with the system and coaching.

Fulton is good. Martin was a 2nd round pick. Mancz and Kelemente have been valuable backups in the past. Keep them together and let them grow. They might not be great but they don't suck. Fulton was good for KC and Kelemente was good on New Orleans.
 
TheKDog said:
People are wigged out because they drafted for need but the need was tackles. We have serviceable guards.
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What we needed was OL help in the worst possible way. IMHO, not position on the OL should be safe based on last years play. I think we got 2 good ones that will end up being foundational pieces for the near future. I don’t care where on the OL they play, just that they play well. I’m not a FB coach but I’ve been in the performance training business for a long time. Howard has the requisite movement skills to play T and it certainly looks like he has the physicality to play G. I think Howard ultimately ends up as a T, could be left or right. As I said earlier I haven’t focused on Scharping as much but I’ve heard promising things. I’m going to start focusing on him more these next 2 games.
If these guys end up being good players for us who cares where they played in college
 
TheKDog said:
Yes because they screw up the offseason. They could have easily had Dillard at LT and Nsekhe at RT.
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Really looking like their plan was to address the Guards. They're letting a healthy Seantrel handle RT & if you take BO'b at his word, starting Kalil was the plan from day 1.
 
thunderkyss said:
Really looking like their plan was to address the Guards. They're letting a healthy Seantrel handle RT & if you take BO'b at his word, starting Kalil was the plan from day 1.
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I am curious as to how they concluded Tytus is a guard. And Scharpring as well.
 
TheKDog said:
I am curious as to how they concluded Tytus is a guard. And Scharpring as well.
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I watched the Senior Bowl (including the practices which were also televised) and pretty sure Howard didn't play any guard, he was strictly at tackle.
I dunno about Scharping, can't remember if he was at guard or tackle or both ?
 
To be fair, Howard does have that naturally big lower body that lends itself to power drive blocking and coiled resistance power in pass blocking. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, (on the news, etc), but Scharping looks like the Hulk .... like he could absolutely impose his will on whomsoever he wished !
 
How did the narrative of us needing tackles change? All of last season we all were ticked off with the tackle play. Jokers were saying they better address both tackle positions during the off season and before the draft. It was addressed. Now that Bill O'Brien and Delvin have made the decision to play both rookies at the guard positions. Oh it's not uncommon to play tackles at guard. And now we needed inside help more than tackle help. I really just don't get it.


The main problems on the inside were:

Communication and injuries

Outside well we all know the deal.
 
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Tweet from @AaronWilson_NFL: Texans lineman Zach Fulton suffered a mild turf toe, isn't considered serious
 
Tweet from @PatDStat: Scharping looks like a rookie tonight. He looks like he is not ready tonight.
 
Tweet from @Smitty74allday: Scharping having a rough day. First time I’ve seen him struggle all camp. It’s important to see how he responds for the rest of the game.
 
Time to cheap shot Drew Brees knees................ that's the game plan ............. even then we still gonna loose.

Definetly not showing up to the game......... that might be the more appropriate action
 
So Luck has had enough fun in the NFL for one career, huh ? The division is for shore up for grabs now.
 
Luck retiring should wake up the Texans FO. The Colts waited too long to protect Luck. He says he’s “mentally worn out”. More players in the NFL are starting to opt out, find a new career earlier than they once did.

Watson was sacked 62 times last year. Why get yourself beat up for an owner not willing to pony up for protection, or a FO/HC too stubborn or too stupid to assemble talent in front of me?
 
If reports are true and Andrew Luck is retiring, I hope it's a precautionary tale for the Texans. If you have a young QB who shows flashes of being a franchise QB, you protect first and foremost.

Between 2012 and 2015, Luck was pressured and hit more than any QB. They protected him by only drafting 3 OL players before the 7th round. That is almost criminal.

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1165440517682999296
 
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