Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Payne has no sources inside the Texans organization.
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
Payne has no sources inside the Texans organization.
zshawn10
All Pro
#Redskins #TrentWilliams news: kevinsheehanDC</a> on <a href="https://twitter.com/team980?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">Team980 – "The #Patriots were willing to offer their 2020 first round pick for #TrentWilliams, but were told by the #Redskins it wasn't enough…"
— The Team 980 (@team980) August 22, 2019
Texans trade chatter with Skins should pick up (Trent Williams OL) already had some dialogue earlier in camp. #NFLPreseason Rumors
— IB (@incarceratedbob) August 22, 2019
Just expecting more talks as of now… could go either way
— IB (@incarceratedbob) August 22, 2019
— The Team 980 (@team980) August 22, 2019
Texans trade chatter with Skins should pick up (Trent Williams OL) already had some dialogue earlier in camp. #NFLPreseason Rumors
— IB (@incarceratedbob) August 22, 2019
Just expecting more talks as of now… could go either way
— IB (@incarceratedbob) August 22, 2019
Mangler
Toro de España
Our first or even second round picks should and probably will be more valuable than the Patriots’ first round pick. The Patriots will be picking at 30-32. Maybe our first or two seconds can get it done?
Really, you dont think Payne and Weaver talk?
frethack
Rookie
I wouldnt trade next years first either. Not sure it will be that much higher than the Pats, but its certainly possible if the line is a dumpster fire again. IMHO, if we are picking high next year, it will be a new regime buying the groceries. That first round pick will be very valuable.
If Williams rarely missed games, then a first and more might make sense.
If Williams rarely missed games, then a first and more might make sense.
My guess is the pats pick will be near the bottom and the Texans pick in the middle.
I think OBrien is desperate . He's slowly realizing his plan to start kalil is moronic and he's blowing up at the media about it.
My guess is he overpays for him and next year the new coach won't have a pick until the fourth round
Where does this come from?
Lol
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I would be ok if they picked up Williams, even at the cost of a 1st next year, and moved Howard to LG full time. People keep talking about our 1st as though we were picking top 15, we were picking at 23 and, as has been said before, 1.23 for a long term answer at LG is a good deal in particular with a QB like Watson.
This is what I've always wondered about. Zack Martin is an absolute beast. Doesn't Nick ask his much more talented brother about how to be a better player/train better? They are both 6'4", and share the same parents. That's where the similarities end. Seriously Nick, give your brother a call and get some advice.
1.23 for a long-term answer at LT is a good deal but 1.23 for a LG is called overpayment, bad managment of Draft capitol, take your pick.
No matter how much folks try to rationalize it it's still a bad deal if a team that so desperatlyy needs a long-term answer at both tackle positions uses their top pick on a guard.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
For a 10 year LG, no 1.23 is great value. Hell for a 10 year anything, except maybe a kicker, in the NFL 1.23 is a good deal.
Mangler
Toro de España
B1tch all you want, but I’d rather spend a 1.23 pick on a LT that ends up panning out at guard (and holds it down for 10+ years) over another bust like Suafilo, Jalen Strong, and Kevin Johnson turned out to be.
@sarahbarshop: Bill O’Brien said the plan has always been to manage Matt Kalil’s reps during training camp, because he was coming off a knee injury last year. Kalil has missed the last five practices. https://t.co/WRnDNuIFo9
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Very true. If given a 2nd choice though, I'd rather spend a 1.23 pick on a LT that will actually play LT. Or a CB, or whoever else was available there that you desperately needed to fill a position for, and got your 10 year LT that plays LG later in the draft. But that's just me.
NFL draft is a crapshoot, even in the 1st round. They picked who they picked, all we can do now is hope it works out, however it does. If he's a LG for 10 years, consider yourself lucky. You swung and missed but still got on base because of a wild pitch.
So that means he was slotted for the starting job before Howard was drafted. They were concerned about his health, not about his ability to play.
Makes me mad.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
No worries. It will all get sorted out at halftime in the Superdome.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
So Quenton Nelson with the Colts 1.6 pick in the 2018 draft was bad management of Draft Capitol? (A guard and two centers taken in the 1st last year, all before pick 23), a center and two guards taken in the 1st round in 2016. So it isn't like it is unheard of to draft OG's in the first.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
Bad management could also be drafting a linemen who has experienced playing both left and right tackle. But before then was a quarterback in high school and recruited to play tight end. We suppose to draft a LT to protect Watson blindside only to play him at LG.
Now don't get me wrong here. The youngster seems to be a quick learner, which is a plus. But dang why oh why. Why are we gambling some much here. Play the young man at LT.
Agreed, this is why I don't think Howard was a bad pick, even though I would have traded up for Dillard.
BTW, give me a 10 yr great kicker over a 10 yr LG any day. A great kicker will decide more games over 10 yrs than a LG will.
Excellent post
Because he's avg at best at LG. Do you really want Howard protecting Watson's blindside against Jordan in the Superdome on opening night?
I will pass, give me more RJ. Or trade for Williams
Texansballer74
The Marine
If that's where you drafted him. Yes
But since he hasn't been getting any real time snaps there in practice. No
My point however was why draft two tackles only to work them at the guard positions. Imo just doesn't make any sense.
We have quality pass rushers to help them get ready for the real deal.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Well at least for the Texans.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
This may very well be wishful thinking but one thing that was talked about in another thread was that as mobile a QB as Watson is a solid interior maybe more important than LT and RT if schemed right. Basically make the interior a solid wall and have the sides just slow down the rushers enough for him to get a quick pass out.
Again I admit this maybe wishful thinking but IF this is what they are planning moving their best to guard makes sense. I have no faith in Devlin ability to coach, I’m not sure how much faith I have in BoBs ability to call plays but I have a lot of faith in Carl Smith’s ability to teach Watson. That’s my big glimmer of hope.
Agreed
I think the Texans org is still very conservative, but they should've known an Alabama A&M guy wouldn't be able to start at LT game 1, so they went cheap with Kalil to try to but time for Howard to learn. Funny thing is the best LT on the roster is RJ and I'm very interested in how he performs against the Cowboys 1's.
I've tried, but I can't make sense of it. I always thought Mancz was better than Martin & Kelemente. But they kept him on the bench. I thought Rankin would compete for a starting Guard spot. But he can't because they drafted two tackles. I thought Fulton might get serious consideration at Center so they can start both rookie tackles at Guard.
Nope.
None of this makes sense.
Number19
Hall of Fame
This pretty much sums it up.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Doesn't mean he's a source or has sources..
When's the last time Seth Payne broke anything regarding the Texans?
Hell.. when's the first time he ever broke anything regarding the Texans?
sandman
Brexit Advisor
To be fair, Mancz was a UDFA who has been hurt a lot. He wasn't brought in with the specific plan of plugging him into a starting role like some of these draft picks. The fact that he has played well when healthy has been a bonus. I'd like to see him be healthier/available for a while before building OL plans around him.
As much as I want Martin to succeed because of his pedigree and the draft capital used on him, this team is better with Fulton at Center.
As much as I want Howard to succeed at LT, this team is better with him at LG. Same with Sharping.
Maybe that changes at some point and both turn into the Tackles we need them to be. And yes I get that it still doesn't address the Tackle needs this team has had for a while now. But I do think the Howard-Fulton-Sharping interior line (with Mancz backing up all three) is the best that this team has had in a long time.
The Guard (Nelson), and the the 2 Centers (Ragnow, Price) were also a Guard and Centers in college. They weren't Tackles who became a Guard and Centers.
Which gives him more creditbility with me.
He doesn't make stuff up or talk out of his butt.
Texansballer74
The Marine
How do you know/figure this team is better with Howard and Scharping playing guards. Especially when we haven't seen any meaningful games being played?
And please don't tell me you know for sure they aren't ready to play Tackles in the NFL.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Got a look at Juwaan Taylor for the Jags at RT last night.. He looked solid...To be honest though, i think it was more of the Dolphins D-line being trash than him being good.
Josh Allen on the other hand
, he might be a problem for years to come for us. We are going to have to stay in 12 & 21 personnel packages to keep him from just teeing off on the o-line.
Josh Allen on the other hand
, he might be a problem for years to come for us. We are going to have to stay in 12 & 21 personnel packages to keep him from just teeing off on the o-line.Teams look at BPA and need when making Draft decisions, and most so called experts usually say the former should prevail when deciding between the two. And there's also a third parameter, and that's positional value where for example tackles are generally considered more valuable than guards or centers and CBs more valuable than safeties.
Of course there's exceptional cases re position value when extraordinary or even so-called generational talents like perhaps the late Sean Taylor come along and perhaps
Nelson is another such football talent ?
sandman
Brexit Advisor
My intent was to say that Howard/Sharping at G make the interior of the line better than it has been in the past. Right now, if they were both playing T, I am not sure that we could say the T play has improved from last season, nor would whoever we have left in the interior would be seen as an improvement as well. It is an opportunity to improve a PART of the line, as I don't think anyone here thinks that the ENTIRE line can be improved based on the talent currently on the roster.
Nowhere did I say that they couldn't play T or were not "ready". It's called an opinion, about sports, to which you are perfectly free to disagree about.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol are you kidding? The same way you and others here can be confident that:
The Texans wanted Dillard but panicked and reached for Howard.
Dillard's going to be better than Howard
Howard is ready to play LT now over anyone else
Confirmation bias needs no confidence.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
The vast majority of feedback we have received from both inside and outside the organization is that both are doing well in pre-season at the guard spots.
Who do you think are the better guards on the team that should be playing in front of them?
We've received this feedback for 5 years. I would start Kelemente and Fulton until they show they are ready and better. And I would be giving Howard reps at LT not LG
Rookies are almost never good. Even if they are top 10 picks which these guys aren't
Not true
Texansballer74
The Marine
My bad. I was not trying to come at you in the wrong manner. I know it's your opinion. Just asked why you feel that way or how did you formulate that conclusion. Especially when we haven't seen any real time action. My thing is the tackle positions have been the weakest links on that line for a few years now. So to me it's very strange we drafted two tackles just to plug them at guard.
How so?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Most almost never reach the full potential of what they're going to be as rookies, But lots of them can come in & can be really good contributors from day 1. Bottom line is, If you can play, you can play.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Lots of good rookie lineman. Hell didn't Q. Nelson with the Colts become an all-pro as a rookie? I will say that most of the time rookies aren't near at their peak, but there is degrees of good. It's not just like they are total crap and then suddenly become great in year two.
Look at the Texans as an example. They usually hit in some form or fashion on 1st Rd picks, excluding KJo.
The 2nd and especially the 3rd Rd is where the Texans have been terrible since their inception.