Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Again..they have 46.5 MILLION DOLLARS in cap space. They could afford to make him the highest paid tackle in the entire league (which he won't come remotely close to that) and be fine.
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
Again..they have 46.5 MILLION DOLLARS in cap space. They could afford to make him the highest paid tackle in the entire league (which he won't come remotely close to that) and be fine.
And you don't know who else they need to pay in the coming year years. They might be already allocating it to other needs.
Just saying they have capspace therefore Trent Brown sucks is silly.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/niners...-the-49ers-might-be-saving-cap-space-for/amp/
6 players the 49ers might be saving cap space for
Trent Brown, T (entering Year 4)
The 49ers want Brown to improve his consistency because he’s one of the league’s best pass protectors when he’s fully locked in. His contract is up after the following season which could mean a deal happens before Week 1 in September.
(Kyle Terada-USA TODAY Sports)
However, Brown recently had surgery on his right shoulder that could cause him to miss the bulk of the offseason program. San Francisco will likely want to see what kind of shape’s in when he returns before engaging in contract talks. Weight and conditioning have been issues for Brown dating back to college. They also contributed to Brown getting drafted in Round 7 despite his obvious talent. How he rehabs will be important.
A new deal for Brown, 24, could be massive. He’s the favorite to take over at left tackle for 33-year-old Joe Staley whenever he decides to step away, making it likely Brown would advocate for left tackle money, putting him in the conversation for $13 to $15 million per season. The Giants just gave Nate Solder a four-year, $62 million contract. Russell Okung signed for four years and $53 million with the Chargers. Trent Williams received five years and $66 million from Washington
(Click link for the other 5 players)
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The real travesty is that the Texans were in that position in the first place due to 10 years of suckitude from Ricky and the scouts AND uncle Bob not being able to keep his mouth shut
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
I put losing Brooks, Jones and Brown on RS and McNair, not that I think losing Jones was a really poor move. I put the failure to replace them on OB and RS. Especially OB on his inability to get a solid OL coach and his believe that size and versatility are more important than skill
Texansballer74
The Marine
We were talking About offense, and Kubiak did have a few very good seasons with the offense but during those years our defense was pathetic and cost games, the 11/2 years you are talking about Wade had the defense at a high level. Once Gibbs retired again we failed to improve the OL every year. OBriens two years were average and the OL was below but our QB was so pathetic that it didn't matter
our line will be fine. As long as OB calls the right kind of game and Watson stays healthy. Watson appears to have the ability to make an OL look better than it is. Last year the OL looked more than serviceable when Watson was playing. Watsons mobility make it hard for defensive ends to "pin their ears back and get after the QB". they have to be very disciplined which makes the tackles job much easier. We will have a top 15 OL mark my words.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Texansballer74, this post fits exactly with this season. I think the reference myself, steelbtexan and others have been making.....this OL didn't get to this point overnight and the Texans OL has been in a steady decline for the past 5+ seasons. The only time the monitor got a blip was when Mancz played Center in 2016. Also worth asking, when was the last time the Texans had a truly functional right side? RS and his scouts either didn't prioritize an OL or they chose to place their priorities elsewhere.
Personally, I think Kelemete could be the Texans 2018 OL surprise. He'll look even better if Martin can finally perform up to his draft status.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Repeat
Texansballer74
The Marine
OptimisticTexan I agree with you guys. But I have to go the coaching route. Reason being, is it seems as if every player is not playing up to their potential. Mainly because coach Obrien and his his philosophy on olinemen being versatile. To me he is playing them out of their natural position. Mancz should have remained out center. Allen should played the same position he played in Kansas city. Filo took a step backwards. They probably should have kept Brooks but as you can see dude didn't get along with Bill O'Brien. Therefore, it wasn't just Rick Smith. All of them had a hand in this puss poor line. Ever since Obriens arrival that line has gotten worse every year. Hopefully he finally know exactly what type of offense he wants to stick with.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I concur with your sentiments Texansballer74. I agree that the combination of O'Brien and Devlin hasn't gotten it done with the OL. The fear of sitting Su'a-Filo was amazing. One of the bigger mistakes was giving the Center position back to Martin.....Mancz flat out owned the position in 2016, when the OG's were playing like crap. Martin had Center and OG on his resume coming out of ND, then got hurt his rookie season. After the 10th game of the 2016 season....O'Brien and Devlin should've brought Martin into the office and told him to get prepared for a move to RG. This would have given him plenty of time to make the mental adjustments before the start of the off-season process, making him prepared to play the position last season. Hell, Fuller was already there to handle backup duties at C and OG.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Again, Mancz in 2017 was not an option for C, and just as poor an option at RG where they tried to play him. From 4/17/18:
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Contrast: Trent Brown walking aside Tom Brady.
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1004380165336715264/pu/vid/360x640/7BvDmEkZzqxg_WRP.mp4?tag=3
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1004380165336715264/pu/vid/360x640/7BvDmEkZzqxg_WRP.mp4?tag=3
Called last yr
Calling it again this yr, the OL will be better but still a bottom 1/3 unit.
What makes you feel differently, or not see the trends of this teams personnel dept?
Look at the OL like this and I'm not saying some of the guys haven't improved this offseason.
Davenport (Guy with good feet, Not strong enough, will he improve or become the next Seth Wand?)
Kalemete- Good player, been around awhile and has always been a backup for a reason.
Martin- Coming off of his 2nd ankle surgery in 2 yrs. Doesn't bode well for the future.
Fulton- See Kalemete
Henderson- If he doesn't actually get busted again, he can be an avg LT, but who knows after basically not playing last season.
Rankins- I'm actually higher on Rankins than most, but he hurt his ankle so bad last yr he neede surgery to attempt to fix it and will probably fall behind in his rookie yr.
Not exactly a confidence building OL. IMHO
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badboy
Hall of Fame
Davenport has reportedly worked hard this off season to increase strength. Hard to think of any rookie Olineman who is not tagged with "needs to gain strength". As I've said most of my opinion on him is based on watching him in college. If he can avoid injury, he will not only get better but be better than what we had rotating at LT in 2017. Every college player could be steady or flame out; that's just part of game. I can say that about most veteran free agents.
Kelemete and Fulton were back ups but that's not what I focus on; are they better than their predecessors? You agreed that both were good players and while I don't see them or Henderson being long term answers (although Fulton could be), I just want them to give #4 time. That should happen.
Rankins should be able to heal as he learns behind Davenport.
Martin? Replace his name in your post with..Watts, Clowney, Kevin Johnson, Badger, Mercilus, Will Fuller...
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welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
Delete.
Yes I echo the sentiments of others here in saying that given since its generally recognized that the offensive line is the base of the entire offense much like as if it were the base of a pyramid leaves us trying understand how the Texans or any NFL organization would let the line fall into such disarry ?
DULY MARKED !
badboy
Hall of Fame
Did they become complacent? Were there other positional needs? Did they use draft picks unwisely (Su'a Fila)? or did draft picks/free agents (Nick Martin, Allen and Manz) get injured? Texans have drafted O T once (Brown) first round in their history. Isn't it a common thought that OLinemen and running backs for that matter can be chosen successfully in later rounds? I understand the history yet as I am pleased with 2018 draft Pruitt, Rankins & Coutee should start sooner rather than later; I'm gonna focus on this off season rather than history.
You sure are putting alot of faith in Davenport. I see him as his NBA cousin Micheal Kidd-Gilchrist. (Got the talent but didn't really work to improve his game.) I will admit I'm biased, but if the Texans org thought Davenport was all of that then they wouldn't have been throwing big $$$$ at Solder. I hope you're right. The rest of the guys are serviceable OL, but not the type of Ol you want to build around. Stop gap at best, and think about all of the cap money that could've been used to get all pro players, but didn't. After this season I hope you look back and say, they improved but could've done so much more. If you're honest with yourself. Injuries also happen but lets not use that as an excuse for the Texans continuing neglect of the OL. But oh sure these guys can be coached up to the level of the all pros the Texans org passed on. LOL
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
At least there's a glimmer of hope . Last year with Clark , XSF , Gino , and Allen , there wasn't a glimmer .
badboy
Hall of Fame
Again we disagree, it would have been foolish not to have gone after Solder who prob would have better than Big D. The offer although unsuccessful seems to meet your comments about Texans spending cap; they try and you say? We still have about $35 million and could readily come up with more if needed but on whom? There were no all pro tackles avail IIRC. We do agree as I stated above the rest of guys are not players to build around and I haven't heard anyone say they are..but they can get us through next season and maybe more. I think I am honest to myself and hopefully to others.
Some had hope.
Devlin last year: "Since I've been here, this is the first year (where) we have all this depth and competition and all these little battles that no one's seeing that's going to make us better overall."
“We’re creating this depth, competition, and that’s what you always want with the offensive line every year -- depth, competition,” Texans offensive line coach Mike Devlin said. “That’s what we're creating right now. I’m getting excited to see them with the pads on.”
http://www.espn.com/blog/houston-te...raining-camp-with-questions-at-offensive-line
"I don't even know where to begin with Mike Devlin," coach Bill O'Brien said. "I think he's one of the best line coaches I've ever been around. I've been around some great line coaches.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ho...nt-Mike-Devlin-for-his-work-with-12289072.php
PatDStat: "There is improvement needed still, but the offensive line might not be too far from being a top five or top ten unit in the NFL if they can improve on their numbers from 2016. "
https://www.google.com/amp/s/247spo...ne-is-Better-Than-Most-Realize--105339136/Amp
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Hey Steel, I've got to take the other side here....kinda. I don't have faith in him .... yet. I watched him pretty closely. During the games, and again afterward on recorded tape. He played somewhere around half of the time, and, about half of the time he was in the game, he was successful. I wanted more, but from such a small school, with weak competition, and less than top line coaching, (I assume), it seemed to me that he came a long way. He may or may not make it, but he's got a lot going for him. You can tell a lot from the way a player looks, moves, and speaks .... high ceiling .... that's why I wanted Brandon Parker and Joel Noteboom, as well as Rankin, (thought he would be gone too early). That want-to factor, that comes across on taped interviews, means a lot to me. I think that factor, (if they make it), becomes heart !
OMG you have been the one whining ad nauseam that they didn't throw big money at Solder!
The way I saw it play out was the Texans, having a need for tackle, did their due diligence in pursuing the top tackle on the market with a very competitive (some reported 2nd highest) offer... but it appeared Solder was unwilling to uproot his family and move away from the local medical care. Was Solder (an slightly above average LT) worth upping their offer more to top NYG's unbelievably ridiculous contract? No, just go with your young prospect instead.
The Texans may not have thought Davenport "was all of that" but they did feel plenty comfortable with him being a good enough option compared to Solder at that price tag, so that disproves your point.
The bolded is key.
Speculation Alert:
I think O'Brien relies heavily on Devlin to evaluate OL guys to pick up in F/A or in the draft. I've not seen much that says Devlin is very good at doing that.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Some people are too doom and gloom when things don't go their way. They ignore all the facts because they're too emotional invested. Everybody know the reason why we Solders opted to go with the Giants over the Texans. Both teams offered the same amount of money.
We practically have a brand new offensive line. And I understand Bill O'Brien and the offensive lines coach has a terrible track record. Hopefully they will turn it around by getting the very best out of these new addition ( the backups). It's a wait and see thing to me.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Dude should've been one of the first to get the boot. But for some reason Obrien trust and believe in Delvin.
I guess they're stuck with who they got for the season! Just saw this article in TexansWire: Texans won't find any OL help with current free agents
The only hope may come with another team's cuts!
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
If this group could perform adequately while a couple of them become much better than adequate...it really could help set the tone for the team in 2019 (Draft and FA). The really positive side of this, everyone would have plenty of reps and game time under their belts which would mean great bridge talent or depth for 2019. The 2019 draft might allow the Texans to build a solid OL with veteran depth....something this team hasn't enjoyed in ages.
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TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Having a 1st and two 2nds is huge for next offseason.
If wishes and buts were candy and nuts...
What does Obrien do?
Rick Smith got fired for roster moves.
Godsey got fired for the offensive play calling.
The OL is Devlins fault.
A bunch of coaches and scouts got fired the past off-season for talent evaluation.
I can't believe that was written on 6/7 and passed as some new news. Captain Obvious with the hot-takes!
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
badboy
Hall of Fame
I spent couple hours last night looking for possible cuts or trade options other teams but just doesn't seem to be there. I went back and looked at Buffalo but they have traded Cordy Glenn after Dion Dawkins had very good 2017 rookie year. Reaffirms value of OTs in the NFL.
hmmmm.... when you put it like that...
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
There just aren’t enough starter caliber OTs to go around. Like the QB position. Very rare for a team to let one capable of being a solid starter walk for free. Everyone knew Duane Brown was not going to be a Texan much longer but the team still managed to get a 2nd and 3rd for him because the supply of good ones is so limited.
hmmmm.... when you put it like that...
Also:
Clock management is BS
Lechler is responsible for the challenge flag
I would reply to this but I dont want to seem whiny.
Whiny as in calling them out for being cheap. Again
The Texans org are never big players in FA. So No, I didn't expect the Texans to spend the money to bring in top OL talent. Even though they certainly have/had the cap space to add 2 premium OL.
zshawn10
All Pro
Austin Gayle@AustinGayle_PFF
https://twitter.com/AustinGayle_PFF/status/1006519178621222912
#Texans IOL Xavier Su'a-Filo, Greg Mancz & ShawnLauvao all ranked in the bottom-10 in pass-blocking efficiency among qualifiers in 2017.
What did HOU's brass do this offseason? Signed Zach Fulton and Senio Kelemete, two of the top-5 OGs in PBE in '17.
Good move, HOU.
7:50 AM - Jun 12, 2018
https://twitter.com/AustinGayle_PFF/status/1006519178621222912
#Texans IOL Xavier Su'a-Filo, Greg Mancz & ShawnLauvao all ranked in the bottom-10 in pass-blocking efficiency among qualifiers in 2017.
What did HOU's brass do this offseason? Signed Zach Fulton and Senio Kelemete, two of the top-5 OGs in PBE in '17.
Good move, HOU.
7:50 AM - Jun 12, 2018
Awright ! Good find zshawn10 !
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Shawn Lauvao was with the Redskins??? And he could hardly walk after multiple foot and ankle injuries just last year (and many more in previous years) and previous foot surgeries (5 in 3 months spanning Nov 2015 to Jan 2016). A neck injury finally put him out of his misery and onto IR Nov last year
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zshawn10
All Pro
He corrected himself and said Jeff Allen instead of Shawn