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State of the O-line

Cuz you know, the other 31 teams were shooting for smaller, shorter and weaker.

Dallas is considering moving Collins back inside, if Fleming can win the outside gig, to help re-solidify a line that overall had a down year last season.

"I played against a lot of great players at right tackle. It made me better as a player," Collins said. "Pretty much being able to play every position except center feels great. It was a big stepping stone for me going into next year. I'll be ready wherever it is.

"[But] I don't even thinking about switching positions. I'm just focused on getting bigger, faster, stronger and making sure I'm healthy going into this year. I'll be ready to roll."
From NFL site.

Make that 30 teams. YOUR cowboys are channeling the Texans approach.

Tongue in cheek of course.

:coffee:
 
He made substantial improvements from opening day to end of year. One would think he is capable of making an even larger improvement with a full offseason with an NFL S&C regimen and having all of his reps at LT.


I surely hope so. We also thought X would continue to improve as well remember. My thing is we shall see. We most definitely needs him to grow into that important position quickly.
 
He made substantial improvements from opening day to end of year. One would think he is capable of making an even larger improvement with a full offseason with an NFL S&C regimen and having all of his reps at LT.
Agreed, but TB74 also has a point that there's things to prove. I think you're right about the strength and conditioning regimen -- to me, the negatives in the video could be fixed with better upper body strength. Guys are getting into his body instead of locked onto at arms length and they can roll off of him too easy. It's either poor technique or he just wasn't strong enough to keep them at arms length. Same thing with the lunging into players -- could be the poor technique is because he doesn't trust his upper body strength so he compensates. Hopefully he comes in stronger and continues to improve but I agree with you that there's things to be optimistic about and if you're going to only get 1 more tackle, get a RT.
 
I am much more encouraged about Davenport playing LT after reading this article. RT is the biggest need on the OL.

https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/2/22/17026600/the-film-room-julien-davenport
Sorry but this is an older story, not a revelation, it's something we've already kicked around when it was first posted on Feb. 22, page 11 in the Davenport thread.
When we get a look at Davenport in the flesh for the first time since the'17 season in the upcoming OTAs then maybe we will get some encouraging reports for real on what's he's maybe accomplished in the offseaon in terms of bulking/muscling up.
 
Sorry but this is an older story, not a revelation, it's something we've already kicked around when it was first posted on Feb. 22, page 11 in the Davenport thread.
When we get a look at Davenport in the flesh for the first time since the'17 season in the upcoming OTAs then maybe we will get some encouraging reports for real on what's he's maybe accomplished in the offseaon in terms of bulking/muscling up.

Don't worry, I'm sure once training camp rolls around we will hear glowing reports from John Harris about how much of a beast Davenport has grown into and how he's stonewalling Clowney and Watt all day in practice..
 
Sorry but this is an older story, not a revelation, it's something we've already kicked around when it was first posted on Feb. 22, page 11 in the Davenport thread.
When we get a look at Davenport in the flesh for the first time since the'17 season in the upcoming OTAs then maybe we will get some encouraging reports for real on what's he's maybe accomplished in the offseaon in terms of bulking/muscling up.

Don't worry, I'm sure once training camp rolls around we will hear glowing reports from John Harris about how much of a beast Davenport has grown into and how he's stonewalling Clowney and Watt all day in practice..
 
Don't worry, I'm sure once training camp rolls around we will hear glowing reports from John Harris about how much of a beast Davenport has grown into and how he's stonewalling Clowney and Watt all day in practice..

I see you've kept up with the Texans propaganda machine over the yrs.
 
Don't worry, I'm sure once training camp rolls around we will hear glowing reports from John Harris about how much of a beast Davenport has grown into and how he's stonewalling Clowney and Watt all day in practice..

Haha! I will be plenty excited just like I was last offseason about the rise of Kendall Lamm. The guy who was just a good interview.

Difference is Davenport has size/length and good feet. He actually looks like he might pan out!
 
Your skepticism is well founded, but what or whom do you see as an alternative ?

It's probably going to be Davenport by default. Lamm doesn't belong here. But I would look at Allen there if Davenport looks like he's over his head. Our new acquisitions at best could be tried at RT, not LT. A player like Orlando Brown has potential NFL transition downsides, but I wouldn't rule out trying to get him in as one of the 3rd round picks (if available) and seeing how he could do on the LT as a sub to begin with. As we know,O'Brien tends not to start rookies, but if that becomes the only reasonable option, it could happen.
 
As we know,O'Brien tends not to start rookies, but if that becomes the only reasonable option, it could happen.

Not sure where that is coming from? I always thought BOB was willing to start rookies that were deserving of it. Watson started all but one game. Cunningham, McKinney, Fuller, KJo all started majority of the games their rookie seasons.
 
It's probably going to be Davenport by default. Lamm doesn't belong here. But I would look at Allen there if Davenport looks like he's over his head. Our new acquisitions at best could be tried at RT, not LT. A player like Orlando Brown has potential NFL transition downsides, but I wouldn't rule out trying to get him in as one of the 3rd round picks (if available) and seeing how he could do on the LT as a sub to begin with. As we know,O'Brien tends not to start rookies, but if that becomes the only reasonable option, it could happen.

Yeah .... you nailed it. What a shame about Brown. The perfect tackle body, without the athleticism. Or even worse, without the character/work ethic, to take advantage of his gift. Even if you don't consider another position, other than offensive line, it's difficult to draft a line .... without a 1st or 2nd !
 
Yeah .... you nailed it. What a shame about Brown. The perfect tackle body, without the athleticism. Or even worse, without the character/work ethic, to take advantage of his gift. Even if you don't consider another position, other than offensive line, it's difficult to draft a line .... without a 1st or 2nd !

Man, those statements regarding Brown are from the analyst. I haven't heard one Oklahoma coach say they were down on Brown's 2017/2018 season. These same analyst had him pegged as a sure fire RD1 selection and possibly the "best" LT available in the draft. The guys film shows a player who deserved all the Pre-Combine accolades he was getting.

So a horrible Combine and a Pro Day that was a little better but not up to the standards decided on media analyst have shoved this guy off the cliff. He's gone from a beast of a LT to a guy who might be lucky to earn a starting job as a RT. His "non-athleticism" was enough to keep Baker and the Oklahoma running game looking pretty good.

You know what would represent a utopian moment for me in the 2018 NFL Draft? Both Jacoby Jones (LT- Ohio St) and Orlando Brown (RT- Oklahoma) were there for the taking. Jones with the 4th pick and Brown with the 16th pick. Let me get Schultz (TE- Stanford) in RD4 and Colby Gossett (OG- Appalachian St) in RD6 and I would say some big questions have been answered for the foreseeable future.

That's 4 of the team's eight picks...still want a RB and Bentley Spain (OT- North Carolina) as an UDFA. Sign Dez Bryant and the Texans could focus RD3-34, RD6-40 and RD7-03 for Defense/Special Teams help.
 
Before the underwear olympics Brownwas a 1st round pick... if he falls to the third, wouldn't it be silly not ot take hi? Unless you think he is a cancer?
 
Not sure where that is coming from? I always thought BOB was willing to start rookies that were deserving of it. Watson started all but one game. Cunningham, McKinney, Fuller, KJo all started majority of the games their rookie seasons.

You've managed to list two 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders.........and those were positions with essentially no other good alternatives at the time, and that the team was pretty desperate to try to plug and play at the time.
 
Your skepticism is well founded, but what or whom do you see as an alternative ?

From my point of view there is no other alternative. Whoever the Texans pick in the 3rd round will only be a little more ready to play LT in the NFL than what Davenport was this time last year. The advantage Davenport has over anyone drafted by the Texans is that he has a years worth of experience and now a whole off season in a NFL S&C program. If he's not ready this season then sticking a 3rd round pick from a bad OT class in there will probably be a recipe for disaster too. So, they might as well roll with Davenport. JMO.
 
You've managed to list two 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders.........and those were positions with essentially no other good alternatives at the time, and that the team was pretty desperate to try to plug and play at the time.

So you’re suggesting BOB should be more willing to start lower draft pick rookies at positions we have already have a decent player?

Out of curiosity, which rookies should have BOB started in your opinion?
 
Having watched Brown, there is no doubt that he has very slow feet which he compensated in college by being strong and massive. That won't work as well in the NFL. That said, I would like to see if coaching could improve and compensate for his obvious deficiency.

I have to agree. I've never understood the hype about Brown. I've watched nearly a dozen of his college games (actual games, not highlights) and not a single time have I seen any glimpse of a NFL LT.

He's obviously massive with long arms. He doesn't get mauled by bull rushers because he's so big he can just absorb them into his body without losing balance. OU did a good job of taking away the inside pass rushing gap, so the only way to get to the QB was all the way around the corner. Brown is so long that this was nearly impossible unless the rusher was an elite athlete. He didn't face that many. The problem at the next level is that all the weak side pass rushers will be elite athletes. All capable of neutralizing his length and beating him on the edge.

Brown gets beat by speed a ton. Mayfield made these guys look way better than they are. He got rid of the ball very quickly the majority of the time, and he is a very instinctive creator/scrambler when he can't get the ball off on time. The lack of sacks given up by OU should be credited to Mayfield, not the OL.

Brown is very susceptible to speed around the corner. He is just too slow to get out there, especially if the defender bends underneath him. And he also gets killed in this same scenario on an inside counter move. If he does get to the corner, the speed guy can easily use his momentum against him and beat him inside with a club or rip.

He's also off-balance in the run game because he's so dang tall. He has a hard time creating leverage which leads him to drop his head and miss pretty often.

I don't think he's a good enough run blocker to move inside to OG. When he gets his hands on people he murders them. But he's going to struggle getting there. And he's a disaster waiting to happen at LT. His only possible future is to get coached up at RT. He will always be a liability but his pure size and length give him an advantageous starting position when pass blocking. He's a terrible athlete. That won't improve. But if his feet and hands could be more productive he could be serviceable.

I see a 3rd/4th round ceiling of a player (average NFL starter at RT) with a high chance to be a complete bust.
 
What has OB ever said about rookies other than generic coachspeak "it's difficult to jump into this league" "they have a lot to learn" "they have to adjust to the speed" etc.?

We've had 3 HCs, all supposedly who particularly didn't like to start rookies. I think that's just a coach thing.

or maybe generally most non-premium pick rookies aren't really ready to play starting level NFL football
 
So you’re suggesting BOB should be more willing to start lower draft pick rookies at positions we have already have a decent player?

Out of curiosity, which rookies should have BOB started in your opinion?

I don't know what context you're talking about. My original comment (post #1916) of O'Brien not tending to start rookies was in respect to Brown.
 
I guess he really is excited about Seantrel.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sp...ok-at-Texans-lineup-is-promising-12837715.php

Three free agents – right tackle Seantrel Henderson (Buffalo) and guards Zach Fulton (Kansas City) and Senio Kelemete (New Orleans) – would join Martin and left tackle Julién Davenport.

"I feel good with where we're at," O'Brien said about his offensive line. "We added three guys in free agency.

"Seantrel Henderson? Feel really good about him coming off last year. (He) played at the end of last year (and) had a good Miami game. We feel like he can play right or left. We'll start him off on the right side.

"We feel real good about Zach Fulton. We'll start him off at guard, but he can play center if we want to move Nick Martin to guard. There's some versatility there."

Martin played center and guard at Notre Dame but has played center since he was drafted in the second round in 2016.

"Senio Kelemete, I was very impressed with him on tape," O'Brien said. "Tough guy. Can pull, athletic. We feel like we really added some talent there, and we're looking forward to getting to work with him."
 
Having watched Brown, there is no doubt that he has very slow feet which he compensated in college by being strong and massive. That won't work as well in the NFL. That said, I would like to see if coaching could improve and compensate for his obvious deficiency.
This guy really sounds more like a guard in the NFL and not a tackle if he does actully have a future at all in the pros, and of course gobs of good college OTs are moved inside in the pros, happens every year.
 
This guy really sounds more like a guard in the NFL and not a tackle if he does actully have a future at all in the pros, and of course gobs of good college OTs are moved inside in the pros, happens every year.
Guards are supposed to be shorter, but have the same weight as their taller counterpart tackles, in order to have a low center of gravity. Brown as a guard (the one with the red nose):

Human-Sized-Hard-Plastic-Balloon-Stand-Clown.jpg_350x350.jpg
 
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I don't know what context you're talking about. My original comment (post #1916) of O'Brien not tending to start rookies was in respect to Brown.
Mainly just wondering why you thought BOB tends to not start rookies. I always thought he had no issues starting rookies if they were the best person for the job.
 
Ya'll experts needs to stop. Brown was pretty darn good for the Sooners. That young man is NFL ready on day freaking one. If he lands in our lap in the 3rd, that will be the steal of the draft.

And didn't Martin start day one as a rookie. So this myth about him not starting rookie linemen is false.
 
What has OB ever said about rookies other than generic coachspeak "it's difficult to jump into this league" "they have a lot to learn" "they have to adjust to the speed" etc.?

We've had 3 HCs, all supposedly who particularly didn't like to start rookies. I think that's just a coach thing.


And each of those coaches have started rookies.
 
Ya'll experts needs to stop. Brown was pretty darn good for the Sooners. That young man is NFL ready on day freaking one. If he lands in our lap in the 3rd, that will be the steal of the draft.

And didn't Martin start day one as a rookie. So this myth about him not starting rookie linemen is false.

A lot of players look good or play well in college but don't have skills that translate to the next level. Happens every single year.
 
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From my point of view there is no other alternative. Whoever the Texans pick in the 3rd round will only be a little more ready to play LT in the NFL than what Davenport was this time last year. The advantage Davenport has over anyone drafted by the Texans is that he has a years worth of experience and now a whole off season in a NFL S&C program. If he's not ready this season then sticking a 3rd round pick from a bad OT class in there will probably be a recipe for disaster too. So, they might as well roll with Davenport. JMO.

It's not a bad OT class. There's a lot of good OTs just not any franchise LT 's
. A guy like Noteboom could be as good or better than a 1st rd guy like Williams.
 
Ya'll experts needs to stop. Brown was pretty darn good for the Sooners. That young man is NFL ready on day freaking one. If he lands in our lap in the 3rd, that will be the steal of the draft.

And didn't Martin start day one as a rookie. So this myth about him not starting rookie linemen is false.
He sustained a high ankle sprain/fracture just before his 2016 rookie year. His rookie year essentially was entirely lost. In 2017, Mancz's knee was already becoming sore, sending up red flags, which ended up having him miss weeks 4 through 6 and the Bye and missing several more games or being severely hobbled the rest of the year. O'Brien had little option other than Martin.
 
Guards are supposed to be shorter, but have the same weight as their taller counterpart tackles, in order to have a low center of gravity. Brown as a guard (the one with the red nose):

Human-Sized-Hard-Plastic-Balloon-Stand-Clown.jpg_350x350.jpg
True but sometimes these big tall guys have to move inside even if they were drafted to play tackle, Robert Gallery for example.

This guy sure doesn't sound like what we are looking for because if he's such a bad tackle prospect, which is what we need not guards, I sure hope the Texans
don't go after him but it's gonna be interesting to see where he ends up and when he's drafted, one of the subplots of the Draft after the primary drama the QBs of course.
 
True but sometimes these big tall guys have to move inside even if they were drafted to play tackle, Robert Gallery for example.

This guy sure doesn't sound like what we are looking for because if he's such a bad tackle prospect, which is what we need not guards, I sure hope the Texans
don't go after him but it's gonna be interesting to see where he ends up and when he's drafted, one of the subplots of the Draft after the primary drama the QBs of course.

Gallery was a bust at LT...........just plain poor at LG when they moved him there. Most would consider him a bust all the way around.
 
This guy really sounds more like a guard in the NFL and not a tackle if he does actully have a future at all in the pros...
Guards occasionally have to get into a 3 point stance. I'm not sure Brown can.
 
Gallery was a bust at LT...........just plain poor at LG when they moved him there. Most would consider him a bust all the way around.
And not your garden variety bust either, a monumental bust on the scale of another very highly drafted OT, Greg Robinson as both were top 5 picks.
Anyway back to the OU guy: some folks still see him as a first rounder which is puzzling ?
 
Man, those statements regarding Brown are from the analyst. I haven't heard one Oklahoma coach say they were down on Brown's 2017/2018 season. These same analyst had him pegged as a sure fire RD1 selection and possibly the "best" LT available in the draft. The guys film shows a player who deserved all the Pre-Combine accolades he was getting.

So a horrible Combine and a Pro Day that was a little better but not up to the standards decided on media analyst have shoved this guy off the cliff. He's gone from a beast of a LT to a guy who might be lucky to earn a starting job as a RT. His "non-athleticism" was enough to keep Baker and the Oklahoma running game looking pretty good.

You know what would represent a utopian moment for me in the 2018 NFL Draft? Both Jacoby Jones (LT- Ohio St) and Orlando Brown (RT- Oklahoma) were there for the taking. Jones with the 4th pick and Brown with the 16th pick. Let me get Schultz (TE- Stanford) in RD4 and Colby Gossett (OG- Appalachian St) in RD6 and I would say some big questions have been answered for the foreseeable future.

That's 4 of the team's eight picks...still want a RB and Bentley Spain (OT- North Carolina) as an UDFA. Sign Dez Bryant and the Texans could focus RD3-34, RD6-40 and RD7-03 for Defense/Special Teams help.

I must have watched 5 or 6 Alabama games last season, with the intent of watching Orlando Brown. Sadly, each game exposed my weakness. If I can't detect talent, I lose interest. As I remember, at that time, Brown was being hyped as the best thing since sliced bread. I couldn't see it. He reminded me a lot of Sua Filo .... big as an ox, but moves like one as well. I could never spot any urgency or tenacity .... and .... he didn't move like an athlete. Think about it .... when you watch any player, athleticism is the first thing you look for. When you're cursed with ADD, the eyes betray you, and go straight to Baker Mayfield. I'm pretty sure the same thing occurred in every game I watched. The combine only confirmed to me that my first instinct was unusual .... in that is was correct !
 
I've watched a lot of OU games. And I'm in disagreement with you Steel on this one as well. This young fella is very good in both pass protection and in the run game. Yes he has to polish a few things up, but so does every player going into the NFL.
 
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