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State of the O-line

The only agenda that steel could possibly have is one to improve our team .... and for God's sake, protect that young phenom when he comes back. It seems to me that we're caught up in the genre of college degrees, when the fact is .... the owner needs to focus on qualified, not certified .... and beware of foolish traps such as nepotism !!
 
I think that most of us probably agree that if RS had created this 10+ year track record with any other organization, he might've been out by the halfway point. If not then...then no doubt when he and the owner go out and overpay for a young unproven QB, then pay dearly in trying to undo the mistake. This is not the type of mistake a GM of 10 years should be making...first time GM in year one or two, forgivable but 10+ years in the league equates to a termination mistake.

Toss in the fact that both RS and O'Brien decided Savage was going to bridge the developmental gap of Watson this season. Now this group had been monitoring Savage for three plus seasons and like many of us, should have noticed his limited mobility. So, this group should have also recognized that their OL prospects for 2017 might not be up to the task of providing the type of protection Savage would need to be successful or a young first year QB like Watson to gain confidence. Now, throw in the lack of knowing the pulse of your team and having no idea that the starting LT and All Pro Brown was going in full sit-out mode. All I seen was a GM heck-bent on living by one of his proverbial rules of not re-negotiating a players contract two years out from completion, even though he did it Watt. Brown not only could've secured the LT position but his presence also enabled Su'a-Filo to play like the RD2 LG the team drafted him to be. RS should have secured a solution before the Pre-Season games kicked off and had him back in uniform and ready to go by Game 1. This hurt Savage, hurt Watson and impacted the running game.

Back to the initial mess; this team is in dire need of OL talent to make all the wonderful pieces on offense look spectacular. Problem, RS dumped a 2018 RD2, 2017 RD4 and Osweiler to push his mistake out the door...then he unloaded his 2018 RD1 in a package to move up and draft Watson. Getting Watson at #12 was big b/c every analyst at the time was stating, matter-of-factly, that the Texans had paid too big of a price for Watson. RS got very luck in this regard. Thankfully, Watson has proven everyone wrong but losing those picks in the process is going to leave a bruise nonetheless. So the 2018 UFA Class of OL is very weak and the top OL in the 2018 NFL Draft will be off the boards by RD3. So, RS could take a flyer on a couple of highly drafted OT's who have been released (I will get their names later) and hope that he and his scouting team can identify a couple of high reward OL in RD3. Worth noting, RS's track record would indicate otherwise.

At this point, all we can do is hope McNair has seen enough and realizes it's time to bring in some real football minds with successful track records to try and nail the 2018 NFL Draft with limited resources and then hit a HR in the 2019 NFL Draft.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I think that most of us probably agree that if RS had created this 10+ year track record with any other organization, he might've been out by the halfway point. If not then...then no doubt when he and the owner go out and overpay for a young unproven QB, then pay dearly in trying to undo the mistake. This is not the type of mistake a GM of 10 years should be making...first time GM in year one or two, forgivable but 10+ years in the league equates to a termination mistake.

Toss in the fact that both RS and O'Brien decided Savage was going to bridge the developmental gap of Watson this season. Now this group had been monitoring Savage for three plus seasons and like many of us, should have noticed his limited mobility. So, this group should have also recognized that their OL prospects for 2017 might not be up to the task of providing the type of protection Savage would need to be successful or a young first year QB like Watson to gain confidence. Now, throw in the lack of knowing the pulse of your team and having no idea that the starting LT and All Pro Brown was going in full sit-out mode. All I seen was a GM heck-bent on living by one of his proverbial rules of not re-negotiating a players contract two years out from completion, even though he did it Watt. Brown not only could've secured the LT position but his presence also enabled Su'a-Filo to play like the RD2 LG the team drafted him to be. RS should have secured a solution before the Pre-Season games kicked off and had him back in uniform and ready to go by Game 1. This hurt Savage, hurt Watson and impacted the running game.

Back to the initial mess; this team is in dire need of OL talent to make all the wonderful pieces on offense look spectacular. Problem, RS dumped a 2018 RD2, 2017 RD4 and Osweiler to push his mistake out the door...then he unloaded his 2018 RD1 in a package to move up and draft Watson. Getting Watson at #12 was big b/c every analyst at the time was stating, matter-of-factly, that the Texans had paid too big of a price for Watson. RS got very luck in this regard. Thankfully, Watson has proven everyone wrong but losing those picks in the process is going to leave a bruise nonetheless. So the 2018 UFA Class of OL is very weak and the top OL in the 2018 NFL Draft will be off the boards by RD3. So, RS could take a flyer on a couple of highly drafted OT's who have been released (I will get their names later) and hope that he and his scouting team can identify a couple of high reward OL in RD3. Worth noting, RS's track record would indicate otherwise.

At this point, all we can do is hope McNair has seen enough and realizes it's time to bring in some real football minds with successful track records to try and nail the 2018 NFL Draft with limited resources and then hit a HR in the 2019 NFL Draft.
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Excellent post with valid points that didn't have to resort unnecessary hyperbole or cheap shots to make your point. Good post OptimisticTexan!
 
Earl34 said:
Excellent post with valid points that didn't have to resort unnecessary hyperbole or cheap shots to make your point. Good post OptimisticTexan!
Click to expand...

Tell me more about this hyperbole/cheap shots?

Or could this just be your subjective opinion?

Maybe you just don't care for me or the way I present things and that's OK because I realize I'm not for everybody.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I think that most of us probably agree that if RS had created this 10+ year track record with any other organization, he might've been out by the halfway point. If not then...then no doubt when he and the owner go out and overpay for a young unproven QB, then pay dearly in trying to undo the mistake. This is not the type of mistake a GM of 10 years should be making...first time GM in year one or two, forgivable but 10+ years in the league equates to a termination mistake.

Toss in the fact that both RS and O'Brien decided Savage was going to bridge the developmental gap of Watson this season. Now this group had been monitoring Savage for three plus seasons and like many of us, should have noticed his limited mobility. So, this group should have also recognized that their OL prospects for 2017 might not be up to the task of providing the type of protection Savage would need to be successful or a young first year QB like Watson to gain confidence. Now, throw in the lack of knowing the pulse of your team and having no idea that the starting LT and All Pro Brown was going in full sit-out mode. All I seen was a GM heck-bent on living by one of his proverbial rules of not re-negotiating a players contract two years out from completion, even though he did it Watt. Brown not only could've secured the LT position but his presence also enabled Su'a-Filo to play like the RD2 LG the team drafted him to be. RS should have secured a solution before the Pre-Season games kicked off and had him back in uniform and ready to go by Game 1. This hurt Savage, hurt Watson and impacted the running game.

Back to the initial mess; this team is in dire need of OL talent to make all the wonderful pieces on offense look spectacular. Problem, RS dumped a 2018 RD2, 2017 RD4 and Osweiler to push his mistake out the door...then he unloaded his 2018 RD1 in a package to move up and draft Watson. Getting Watson at #12 was big b/c every analyst at the time was stating, matter-of-factly, that the Texans had paid too big of a price for Watson. RS got very luck in this regard. Thankfully, Watson has proven everyone wrong but losing those picks in the process is going to leave a bruise nonetheless. So the 2018 UFA Class of OL is very weak and the top OL in the 2018 NFL Draft will be off the boards by RD3. So, RS could take a flyer on a couple of highly drafted OT's who have been released (I will get their names later) and hope that he and his scouting team can identify a couple of high reward OL in RD3. Worth noting, RS's track record would indicate otherwise.

At this point, all we can do is hope McNair has seen enough and realizes it's time to bring in some real football minds with successful track records to try and nail the 2018 NFL Draft with limited resources and then hit a HR in the 2019 NFL Draft.
Click to expand...
 
Well said Opto ! Considering the squandering of draft picks you just listed, and adding them to the OL choices that I was pleading for in the previous draft, that were misspent, we could have the best line in the league. In that 2016 draft, in the first 4 picks, we chose one good center and 3 little quick-fast guys that always seem to be conspicuous by their absence. I am surprised and glad to see the improvement that Fuller made with his hands .... but .... He is hell when he's well, but he's all the time sick ! Seems to be the case of Braxton Miller and Tyler Ervin .... too !! Oh what a foundation we could have assembled !
 
Here's hoping RS can turn BS around. (Get it?) Just disappointed TS won't help.

PS ..nothing really just :spin:like the rest.
 
steelbtexan said:
Tell me more about this hyperbole/cheap shots?

Or could this just be your subjective opinion?

Maybe you just don't care for me or the way I present things and that's OK because I realize I'm not for everybody.
Click to expand...

Don't care for you is too strong. I don't know you. Based on your posts, I can tell you have a great sense of humor, you're usually polite and like many of us, at times you have a love/hate relationship with the Texans.

As far as the way you present things. I think you have some valid points and concerns, but the Ricky this, Ricky that in many threads takes away from the content of your posts. For many there's nothing wrong with that, but it makes me want to instinctively defend the Texans when at times I agree with you. Like this back and forth.

Your points for firing Rick Smith is valid, but when you use the Sociology degree as one of the reasons, I have to strongly disagree. Then instead of focusing on the content of your posts, we have a back and forth on the various college degrees of past and current GMs which takes away from your valid points and makes me appear like a Smith apologist or complacent fan. When in reality, I agree with you more than you realize.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I think that most of us probably agree that if RS had created this 10+ year track record with any other organization, he might've been out by the halfway point. If not then...then no doubt when he and the owner go out and overpay for a young unproven QB, then pay dearly in trying to undo the mistake. This is not the type of mistake a GM of 10 years should be making...first time GM in year one or two, forgivable but 10+ years in the league equates to a termination mistake.

Toss in the fact that both RS and O'Brien decided Savage was going to bridge the developmental gap of Watson this season. Now this group had been monitoring Savage for three plus seasons and like many of us, should have noticed his limited mobility. So, this group should have also recognized that their OL prospects for 2017 might not be up to the task of providing the type of protection Savage would need to be successful or a young first year QB like Watson to gain confidence. Now, throw in the lack of knowing the pulse of your team and having no idea that the starting LT and All Pro Brown was going in full sit-out mode. All I seen was a GM heck-bent on living by one of his proverbial rules of not re-negotiating a players contract two years out from completion, even though he did it Watt. Brown not only could've secured the LT position but his presence also enabled Su'a-Filo to play like the RD2 LG the team drafted him to be. RS should have secured a solution before the Pre-Season games kicked off and had him back in uniform and ready to go by Game 1. This hurt Savage, hurt Watson and impacted the running game.

Back to the initial mess; this team is in dire need of OL talent to make all the wonderful pieces on offense look spectacular. Problem, RS dumped a 2018 RD2, 2017 RD4 and Osweiler to push his mistake out the door...then he unloaded his 2018 RD1 in a package to move up and draft Watson. Getting Watson at #12 was big b/c every analyst at the time was stating, matter-of-factly, that the Texans had paid too big of a price for Watson. RS got very luck in this regard. Thankfully, Watson has proven everyone wrong but losing those picks in the process is going to leave a bruise nonetheless. So the 2018 UFA Class of OL is very weak and the top OL in the 2018 NFL Draft will be off the boards by RD3. So, RS could take a flyer on a couple of highly drafted OT's who have been released (I will get their names later) and hope that he and his scouting team can identify a couple of high reward OL in RD3. Worth noting, RS's track record would indicate otherwise.

At this point, all we can do is hope McNair has seen enough and realizes it's time to bring in some real football minds with successful track records to try and nail the 2018 NFL Draft with limited resources and then hit a HR in the 2019 NFL Draft.
Click to expand...

There may be four players worth looking into next season. 2 have failed to play up to the high expectations many thought they would achieve in the NFL. One is injured and two are backups. All should be in no position as FA's to demand big contracts. I'd offer all four, 2 year contract(s) with 1 season guaranteed with roster and performance bonuses.

1. LT / Greg Robinson / Lions / Auburn / RD1 Pick / 2017 Salary: 5.3M / **Swing Tackle when not starting. Has failed to live up to draft position. Sign him with the hope that he wants to salvage his career.**

2. RT / Chris Hairston / Chargers / Clemson / RD4 Pick / 2017 Salary: 1.4M / **He is currently dealing with blood clot issues. I couldn't find much information in regards to his current prognosis. If Cloak could jump in with some inside information...if available, it would be cool. Hadn't been living up to expectations but seemed to be gaining momentum with the Chargers when he hit the IR. Might be worth the pursuit if he can return to the field next season.**

3. ST / James Hurst / Ravens / North Carolina / UDFA / 2017 Salary: 1.2M / **The Ravens actually had him working as the starting RT in the off season and into camp. Somewhere along the way he was moved to backup RT / LG. He might embrace the idea that he could truly compete for a starting position.**

4. ST / Seantrel Henderson / Bills / U Miami / RD7 Pick / 2017 Salary: 568K / **Where do you start with this guy. One of the highest rated prospects coming out of HS. I believe he signs with USC but bails when they are slapped with sanctions and signs with the Hurricanes instead. Delivers on expectations his first year. Injures his back and has surgery. Becomes very dependent on weed...probably for pain relief, much in the same way he could've gotten addicted to pain killers instead of pot. This has affected his career from college into the pro's. If this guy had stayed clean, he was projected to go between RD1 and RD3 of the draft b/c of his physical gifts. Instead, he flunked his drug test at the Combine and went into a free-fall.....hello RD7. Buffalo probably lets this guy walk after this season. I'd sign Seantrel early and get him into rehab immediately and hope that he wants to salvage his career. The Texans would offer a very good opportunity for a rebound.**

If the Texans could get a bounce back season from a couple of these guys that would buy time for drafted players to develop or maybe see a complete turnaround from these players. The good part, they're all young.
 
Earl34 said:
Don't care for you is too strong. I don't know you. Based on your posts, I can tell you have a great sense of humor, you're usually polite and like many of us, at times you have a love/hate relationship with the Texans.

As far as the way you present things. I think you have some valid points and concerns, but the Ricky this, Ricky that in many threads takes away from the content of your posts. For many there's nothing wrong with that, but it makes me want to instinctively defend the Texans when at times I agree with you. Like this back and forth.

Your points for firing Rick Smith is valid, but when you use the Sociology degree as one of the reasons, I have to strongly disagree. Then instead of focusing on the content of your posts, we have a back and forth on the various college degrees of past and current GMs which takes away from your valid points and makes me appear like a Smith apologist or complacent fan. When in reality, I agree with you more than you realize.
Click to expand...

I bet if we met we would get along great.

I just have my opinions and the way I present my thoughts can get under some posters skin.

But then again I enjoy that, so that may make me an A-Hole, you be the judge. Because spending time thinking about what posters think about me is very low on my priority list.

I will admit I enjoy the back and forth banter and realize that opinions are easily formed and very few minds will ever be changed. Those who have changed their minds, like I've changed my mind are the posters I have the most fun talking too.
 
steelbtexan said:
I bet if we met we would get along great.

I just have my opinions and the way I present my thoughts can get under some posters skin.

But then again I enjoy that, so that may make me an A-Hole, you be the judge. Because spending time thinking about what posters think about me is very low on my priority list.

I will admit I enjoy the back and forth banter and realize that opinions are easily formed and very few minds will ever be changed. Those who have changed their minds, like I've changed my mind are the posters I have the most fun talking too.
Click to expand...

shut up! You're starting to make sense :ant:

perhaps I need a drink :D
 
OptimisticTexan said:
2. RT / Chris Hairston / Chargers / Clemson / RD4 Pick / 2017 Salary: 1.4M / **He is currently dealing with blood clot issues. I couldn't find much information in regards to his current prognosis. If Cloak could jump in with some inside information...if available, it would be cool. Hadn't been living up to expectations but seemed to be gaining momentum with the Chargers when he hit the IR. Might be worth the pursuit if he can return to the field next season.**
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, Hairston has made it clear that he does not want to discuss his condition.......which also tells me that he has not given permission for anyone else to disclose any information. There are many reasons that he may have developed blood clots..........many would require lifelong blood thinning medication. If caused by atrial fibrillation, medications or surgery could possibly allow him to avoid blood thinners. However, if he is genetically predisposed to developing blood clots, blood thinners would more than likely be a permanent fixture, although if sickle cell trait is present, blood thinners may not be necessary long term (but other of its treatments and characteristics of this disease may in themselves preclude playing football). Keep in mind that Afro-Americans have a 40-60% higher incidence of blood clots in general than other races. Athletes in fact may be at significant elevated risk if they travel to their games without being able to get up and around, or become injured (especially lower limb) or dehydrated.......and often attribute symptoms to the event, not blood clots. Afro-Americans demonstrate an even greater risk for clots following all these factors.

Hairston battled ankle injuries throughout 2011, then a foot and ankle injuries throughout the end of the 2012 season and started the summer or 2013 on PUP before missing most of camp. He then spent all of 2013 on the reserve/non-football illness list, again with an undisclosed malady. I feel that the aforementioned are very likely related to his present condition and find the long term playing implications for Hairston may be pointing strongly to the negative.
 
Concur, Hairston is probably a scratch from my list. It's a shame that he didn't really get a chance to fulfill his professional career.

Texans have the cap space to sign all three and draft another OT. Then you can only hope that between now and next season Davenport's development has hit the upside. Those 3 guys mentioned above would be an upgrade over the current cast of characters acting like OT's.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
There may be four players worth looking into next season. 2 have failed to play up to the high expectations many thought they would achieve in the NFL. One is injured and two are backups. All should be in no position as FA's to demand big contracts. I'd offer all four, 2 year contract(s) with 1 season guaranteed with roster and performance bonuses.

1. LT / Greg Robinson / Lions / Auburn / RD1 Pick / 2017 Salary: 5.3M / **Swing Tackle when not starting. Has failed to live up to draft position. Sign him with the hope that he wants to salvage his career.**

2. RT / Chris Hairston / Chargers / Clemson / RD4 Pick / 2017 Salary: 1.4M / **He is currently dealing with blood clot issues. I couldn't find much information in regards to his current prognosis. If Cloak could jump in with some inside information...if available, it would be cool. Hadn't been living up to expectations but seemed to be gaining momentum with the Chargers when he hit the IR. Might be worth the pursuit if he can return to the field next season.**

3. ST / James Hurst / Ravens / North Carolina / UDFA / 2017 Salary: 1.2M / **The Ravens actually had him working as the starting RT in the off season and into camp. Somewhere along the way he was moved to backup RT / LG. He might embrace the idea that he could truly compete for a starting position.**

4. ST / Seantrel Henderson / Bills / U Miami / RD7 Pick / 2017 Salary: 568K / **Where do you start with this guy. One of the highest rated prospects coming out of HS. I believe he signs with USC but bails when they are slapped with sanctions and signs with the Hurricanes instead. Delivers on expectations his first year. Injures his back and has surgery. Becomes very dependent on weed...probably for pain relief, much in the same way he could've gotten addicted to pain killers instead of pot. This has affected his career from college into the pro's. If this guy had stayed clean, he was projected to go between RD1 and RD3 of the draft b/c of his physical gifts. Instead, he flunked his drug test at the Combine and went into a free-fall.....hello RD7. Buffalo probably lets this guy walk after this season. I'd sign Seantrel early and get him into rehab immediately and hope that he wants to salvage his career. The Texans would offer a very good opportunity for a rebound.**

If the Texans could get a bounce back season from a couple of these guys that would buy time for drafted players to develop or maybe see a complete turnaround from these players. The good part, they're all young.
Click to expand...

Out of all of those guys Henderson would be the guy I would go after too, on a vet min contract. If he fails you haven't lost anything. The other guys you listed aren't any better than Clark/Breno.

Bring back Clark, sign Henderson, draft Crosby (Who I think can start day 1.) and Crabtree then add Davenport into the mix and you have a great mix of young talented OT's that can play OT/OG.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Out of all of those guys Henderson would be the guy I would go after too, on a vet min contract. If he fails you haven't lost anything. The other guys you listed aren't any better than Clark/Breno.

Bring back Clark, sign Henderson, draft Crosby (Who I think can start day 1.) and Roundtree then add Davenport into the mix and you have a great mix of young talented OT's that can play OT/OG.
Click to expand...

Now this is a plan that I could get behind! You could have Davenport play LT, Crabtree (Did you mean Crabtree- OT, Oklahoma instead of Roundtree?) at LG, Martin at OC, Mancz at RG, and Crosby at RT with Clark and Henderson maybe starting the season for the Rookies if they aren't ready to go game one. It would be a young line and a lot would depend on how much Davenport has developed and how fast the Rookies can progress, but it would probably be a heck of a good O-line moving forward a year or so.
 
Insideop said:
Now this is a plan that I could get behind! You could have Davenport play LT, Crabtree (Did you mean Crabtree- OT, Oklahoma instead of Roundtree?) at LG, Martin at OC, Mancz at RG, and Crosby at RT with Clark and Henderson maybe starting the season for the Rookies if they aren't ready to go game one. It would be a young line and a lot would depend on how much Davenport has developed and how fast the Rookies can progress, but it would probably be a heck of a good O-line moving forward a year or so.
Click to expand...

I meant Crabtree, (Brain Fart.) Crabtree looked great against K-State today. Roundtree's man spent more time on his knees than a cheap hooker.

But the plan would remain the same.
 
From last week's game............Miller doesn't have enough time to get in front of Savage to block anyone..........the entire OL is pushed into Savage within 2 seconds..............and our own Olinemen Mancz, Sua Filo, and Giacomini sacked Savage.................the ultimate pathetic Oline............


La
cdlmwslawvqz0xz9dgjd.gif
 
justmy2cents said:
The only agenda that steel could possibly have is one to improve our team .... and for God's sake, protect that young phenom when he comes back. It seems to me that we're caught up in the genre of college degrees, when the fact is .... the owner needs to focus on qualified, not certified .... and beware of foolish traps such as nepotism !!
Click to expand...

This is what I've been trying to say.

You said it better than I ever could have.

You could've saved my a bunch of typing if you had posted this after the draft/FA period. LOL

Thanks
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
From last week's game............Miller doesn't have enough time to get in front of Savage to block anyone..........the entire OL is pushed into Savage within 2 seconds..............and our own Olinemen Mancz, Sua Filo, and Giacomini sacked Savage.................the ultimate pathetic Oline............


La
cdlmwslawvqz0xz9dgjd.gif
Click to expand...

I would still like to see Mancz at Center and Martin possibly manning LG. Mancz did a solid job last season and would've (speculation only) improved with better OG's next to him this. season. I think O'Brien and RS had hopes that Su'a-Filo and Allen would answer the call....they didn't. So, the Texans are enduring yet another season of sub-par OL play.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
From last week's game............Miller doesn't have enough time to get in front of Savage to block anyone..........the entire OL is pushed into Savage within 2 seconds..............and our own Olinemen Mancz, Sua Filo, and Giacomini sacked Savage.................the ultimate pathetic Oline............
Click to expand...

Thanks for the .gif CND. Great visual example of what's happening. The only one who isn't immediately on Savage is Giacomini who gets away with a blatant hold (at what point is a bear hug taught as proper technique?).
 
It totally baffles me that the OL coach continue to put Sio Filo, Clark or Allen on the field while Mancz sits the bench (I'll be kind and give Davenport a "pass" at this time). I could understand it the Texans were playing for a draft pick, but I thought they were playing to win. Specifically any side of the line with SF, Clark and Allen is little more than a turnstile. It might slow you down a little, but it damn sure isn't going to stop you.
 
Flyingfish said:
It totally baffles me that the OL coach continue to put Sio Filo, Clark or Allen on the field while Mancz sits the bench (I'll be kind and give Davenport a "pass" at this time). I could understand it the Texans were playing for a draft pick, but I thought they were playing to win. Specifically any side of the line with SF, Clark and Allen is little more than a turnstile. It might slow you down a little, but it damn sure isn't going to stop you.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that's the best BOB/Devlin have to work with.

Sad thing is this was by design of the FO. IMHO
 
Flyingfish said:
It totally baffles me that the OL coach continue to put Sio Filo, Clark or Allen on the field while Mancz sits the bench (I'll be kind and give Davenport a "pass" at this time). I could understand it the Texans were playing for a draft pick, but I thought they were playing to win. Specifically any side of the line with SF, Clark and Allen is little more than a turnstile. It might slow you down a little, but it damn sure isn't going to stop you.
Click to expand...
The only thing I can think of is that Mancz is a technition whereas SF and Allen have more power.
 
steelbtexan said:
Unfortunately that's the best BOB/Devlin have to work with.

Sad thing is this was by design of the FO. IMHO
Click to expand...

What do you mean "by design"? are you saying that the FO purposely wanted the o-line to suck? If so, you've really gone off the deep end.

It doesn't take much for an o-line to look exceptionally good or bad. The 1st game of the season against jax, noone on our o-line looked like they belonged in the league much less starters. Watson comes in and for 7 games they looked at least competent. The cowboys reportedly had the best o-line in the league. Tyron Smith goes out and over the span of 2 games they're o-line looks as bad as ours giving up 6 sacks to a guy with a career total of like 30. That 1 guy they're missing negated the impacts of the other 2 pro bowlers on that line as they can't run the ball...they can't pass pro for Dak as he was sacked 6 more times and threw a career high 3 picks last night....they are just an utter mess up front right now. I also understand that Collins is playing out of position too, but even without Smith the talent they have up front should still be better than what they've shown this year.

We definitely need to do something but I think just 1-2 few strategic pieces plus a healthy DW4, would go a long way towards improving the overall play of this o-line which is pretty much at rock bottom right now.

 
Mr teX said:
What do you mean "by design"? are you saying that the FO purposely wanted the o-line to suck? If so, you've really gone off the deep end.

It doesn't take much for an o-line to look exceptionally good or bad. The 1st game of the season against jax, noone on our o-line looked like they belonged in the league much less starters. Watson comes in and for 7 games they looked at least competent. The cowboys reportedly had the best o-line in the league. Tyron Smith goes out and over the span of 2 games they're o-line looks as bad as ours giving up 6 sacks to a guy with a career total of like 30. That 1 guy they're missing negated the impacts of the other 2 pro bowlers on that line as they can't run the ball...they can't pass pro for Dak as he was sacked 6 more times and threw a career high 3 picks last night....they are just an utter mess up front right now. I also understand that Collins is playing out of position too, but even without Smith the talent they have up front should still be better than what they've shown this year.

We definitely need to do something but I think just 1-2 few strategic pieces plus a healthy DW4, would go a long way towards improving the overall play of this o-line which is pretty much at rock bottom right now.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I'm saying, the Texans org is dysfunctional, Smith wants BOB gone and BOB wanted out. McNair wouldn't let BOB go, so Smith is doing everything in his power to get BOB fired. Examples:

1. Not participating in FA/ trying to fix the OL like the Vikings did this offseason. When they had the $$$$ to do so.
2. Ricky insisting BOB start Savage instead of Watson.
3. Tading away Os/Giving up a 2nd rd pick in the process and then not spending a dime in FA. # Picking up scubs doesn't count.

These are the types of things I would do as a GM if I wanted to get my HC fired and since BOB wasn't Smith's pick for HC I could easily see this happening.

I agree with the last part of your post, but it will take atleast 3 pieces to fix this mess. You should check out my Mock Draft in the College Football an Draft section and give me your thoughts.
 
Random oline thought: It frustrated the heck out of me watching Brandon Brooks play last night. I didn't like it when we let him walk then and definitely don't like it now that he's one of the best in the league.

There may be other reasons why players leave, but each of Quin, Brooks and now Bouye's position groups continue to be the weak links

Allen has been a terrible FA acquisition. Sua Filo has been terrible since his arrival.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
From last week's game............Miller doesn't have enough time to get in front of Savage to block anyone..........the entire OL is pushed into Savage within 2 seconds..............and our own Olinemen Mancz, Sua Filo, and Giacomini sacked Savage.................the ultimate pathetic Oline............


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With this O-line it's a miracle the Texans have won 4 games, and that's even with Watson getting 3 of the wins! Pathetic! They did play better this week against the Cardinals but they are still pathetic and need to be replaced by next season IMO. Except for Martin of course.
 
Flyingfish said:
It totally baffles me that the OL coach continue to put Sio Filo, Clark or Allen on the field while Mancz sits the bench (I'll be kind and give Davenport a "pass" at this time). I could understand it the Texans were playing for a draft pick, but I thought they were playing to win. Specifically any side of the line with SF, Clark and Allen is little more than a turnstile. It might slow you down a little, but it damn sure isn't going to stop you.
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You missed, in my opinion anyway, the worst O-lineman on the Texans. The RT Giacomini! This guy is way past his prime, if he ever had one, and was lucky to get picked up off the trash heap by the Texans to play RT.
 
Insideop said:
With this O-line it's a miracle the Texans have won 4 games, and that's even with Watson getting 3 of the wins! Pathetic! They did play better this week against the Cardinals but they are still pathetic and need to be replaced by next season IMO. Except for Martin of course.
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To replace with guaranteed starters we'll have to go after quality, and high dollar, FA's. How are we set in this regard?
 
Insideop said:
You missed, in my opinion anyway, the worst O-lineman on the Texans. The RT Giacomini! This guy is way past his prime, if he ever had one, and was lucky to get picked up off the trash heap by the Texans to play RT.
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There appears to be a competition to see who sucks worse Giacomini/Allen/XSF. XSF is the most disappointing because he was a high pick and sucks just as bad as the other 2 guys. The fact that I dont rate Clark on this list amazes me. # He sucks too.
 
Number19 said:
To replace with guaranteed starters we'll have to go after quality, and high dollar, FA's. How are we set in this regard?
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They may have the money to go after one big name FA lineman in the off season but the problem is there may not be many quality O-linemen out there. I don't know who the FA is that could come in next season and fill a hole on this horrible O-line but there has to be at least one out there that would be better than what the Texans currently have. If they could fill at least one of the spots with that FA, another spot with their top pick in the Draft (3rd or 2nd round if they move up), Davenport to fill the LT spot, and finally Mancz to fill an OG spot, then I think that O-line should be much better than the mess they have now. For depth they still have Fuller, DQ, maybe keep Clark, and then possibly another developmental draft pick. Not saying it would be perfect but it would give you 4 different starters (FA, Draft pick, Davenport, and Mancz) and 3 of those would have NFL playing time so you wouldn't be throwing 4 rookies out there all at once. It's just one scenario they could try.
 
Insideop said:
They may have the money to go after one big name FA lineman in the off season but the problem is there may not be many quality O-linemen out there. I don't know who the FA is that could come in next season and fill a hole on this horrible O-line but there has to be at least one out there that would be better than what the Texans currently have. If they could fill at least one of the spots with that FA, another spot with their top pick in the Draft (3rd or 2nd round if they move up), Davenport to fill the LT spot, and finally Mancz to fill an OG spot, then I think that O-line should be much better than the mess they have now. For depth they still have Fuller, DQ, maybe keep Clark, and then possibly another developmental draft pick. Not saying it would be perfect but it would give you 4 different starters (FA, Draft pick, Davenport, and Mancz) and 3 of those would have NFL playing time so you wouldn't be throwing 4 rookies out there all at once. It's just one scenario they could try.
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We have to do better than we did with Allen, but FA + draft pick is how I would approach the off season. We have a problem that won't be easy to address and your assessment is mine. Releasing Cushing will help in freeing up the $ to sign a big name if one is available to make an offer. If someone is available, I'd maybe overpay, just slightly, to get him here.
 
Number19 said:
We have to do better than we did with Allen, but FA + draft pick is how I would approach the off season. We have a problem that won't be easy to address and your assessment is mine. Releasing Cushing will help in freeing up the $ to sign a big name if one is available to make an offer. If someone is available, I'd maybe overpay, just slightly, to get him here.
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The Vikings went from one of the worst OL units in the league to one of the best in one offseason. Very encouraging to see them turn it around with a couple well-placed free agent signings/draft picks. Has made me rethink the idea of adding 2-3 new starters on the OL and having to wait for them to "gel". The Vikings showed it can be done so lets do it here!
 
Was just watching some highlights of the Texans game with the Cardinals. I didn't see Davenport on any of the plays but I did see Lamm out there as the extra blocking TE. Did anyone notice if Davenport played at all? I just hope he's not hurt or in BOB's "doghouse" for something. I wish they would get him in on more plays so he can gain more experience. Even if they only use him as the extra blocking TE it would help.
 
Insideop said:
They may have the money to go after one big name FA lineman in the off season but the problem is there may not be many quality O-linemen out there. I don't know who the FA is that could come in next season and fill a hole on this horrible O-line but there has to be at least one out there that would be better than what the Texans currently have. If they could fill at least one of the spots with that FA, another spot with their top pick in the Draft (3rd or 2nd round if they move up), Davenport to fill the LT spot, and finally Mancz to fill an OG spot, then I think that O-line should be much better than the mess they have now. For depth they still have Fuller, DQ, maybe keep Clark, and then possibly another developmental draft pick. Not saying it would be perfect but it would give you 4 different starters (FA, Draft pick, Davenport, and Mancz) and 3 of those would have NFL playing time so you wouldn't be throwing 4 rookies out there all at once. It's just one scenario they could try.
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Maybe they could go after Mangold and move Martin and Mancz both to guard... won't help OT any, but I don't see many options there anywho
 
Insideop said:
Was just watching some highlights of the Texans game with the Cardinals. I didn't see Davenport on any of the plays but I did see Lamm out there as the extra blocking TE. Did anyone notice if Davenport played at all? I just hope he's not hurt or in BOB's "doghouse" for something. I wish they would get him in on more plays so he can gain more experience. Even if they only use him as the extra blocking TE it would help.
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Check out CnD's injury thread.
 
I wonder if the Texans are expecting Newton to start at RT next season? Seems strange that they didn't cut him and take any dead money/injury settlement on the nose this season with the free money they have if that isn't their plan moving forward.

For me, he's looked reasonable in the short stretches he hasn't been hampered by injury, but i dread to think how he's going to play after this latest setback.
 
welsh texan said:
I wonder if the Texans are expecting Newton to start at RT next season? Seems strange that they didn't cut him and take any dead money/injury settlement on the nose this season with the free money they have if that isn't their plan moving forward.

For me, he's looked reasonable in the short stretches he hasn't been hampered by injury, but i dread to think how he's going to play after this latest setback.
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We weren't seeing the same Newton except in his contract year.
 
Mr teX said:
What do you mean "by design"? are you saying that the FO purposely wanted the o-line to suck? If so, you've really gone off the deep end.

It doesn't take much for an o-line to look exceptionally good or bad. The 1st game of the season against jax, noone on our o-line looked like they belonged in the league much less starters. Watson comes in and for 7 games they looked at least competent. The cowboys reportedly had the best o-line in the league. Tyron Smith goes out and over the span of 2 games they're o-line looks as bad as ours giving up 6 sacks to a guy with a career total of like 30. That 1 guy they're missing negated the impacts of the other 2 pro bowlers on that line as they can't run the ball...they can't pass pro for Dak as he was sacked 6 more times and threw a career high 3 picks last night....they are just an utter mess up front right now. I also understand that Collins is playing out of position too, but even without Smith the talent they have up front should still be better than what they've shown this year.

We definitely need to do something but I think just 1-2 few strategic pieces plus a healthy DW4, would go a long way towards improving the overall play of this o-line which is pretty much at rock bottom right now.
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Dallas' Oline losing Tyron Smith is far from the only reason that the Cowboys and specifically Prescott are having problems.
Cris Carter explains how the return of Cowboys LT Tyron Smith will affect Dak Prescott
 
Insideop said:
You missed, in my opinion anyway, the worst O-lineman on the Texans. The RT Giacomini! This guy is way past his prime, if he ever had one, and was lucky to get picked up off the trash heap by the Texans to play RT.
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From the Injury Report thread May 16, 2017 when the Texans first signed Giacomini.:

CloakNNNdagger said:
The Texans have signed veteran right offensive tackle Breno Giacomini. We're going to have a whole gaggle of back patients.............He sustained a low back injury early last preseason, starting the season on the physically unable to perform list trying to rehab his back. He was activated in October, and after only playing less than 5 games, sustained a significant re-injury of his back.........He was then placed on IR in December........and finally underwent a lumbar microdiscectomy the first week in January of this year. He was quickly released by the Jets in February.

Besides the above, be aware that he was also limited last year by a shoulder problem, and has already undergone knee surgery to repair ligament and cartilage damage........ and RIGHT elbow surgery, as he was probably signed to take the right tackle position, not a great endorsement. The most common elbow injury to a right tackle is a right ulnar collateral ligament tear (the ligament running along and stabilizing the inside of the elbow joint), which usually occurs when the arm is outstretched to the right to contain an outside rusher. In addition, it has been reported in some of the Jets reports that he has been a liability for years. He signed with the Jets as a free agent in 2014 and has been their starting right tackle since. But his production has declined over the years. In his first season with the Jets, Giacomini finished with a ProFootballFocus rating of 74.9. In 2015, he had a grade of 41, and in 2016 44.3............I'm so excited! He could surprise us and turn out to be a little better than a Derek Newton that tried to play this year.
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But if Watson had remained healthy playing the way he had started, that Oline would have not held us back so glaringly. A first and two seconds 2019 could be very significant.
 
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