Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

State of the O-line

steelbtexan said:
Great post,

I agree with everything but moving Watt inside. hat's a bad idea with Watt's injury history. RAC did use Clowney inside a few times every game and he was usually quite effective.

I absolutely love the idea of moving McKinney outside sometimes. There's nothing terribly wrong that a couple of fast cover CB's wouldn't do to make this defense a top 5 defense. If it was me I would sign Claiborne and draft Ballentine in the 2nd and Blace Brown in the 3rd. Although after the combine I could see Ballentine going in the 1st right around the time the Texans are picking. He's a small school guy who's going to be really good once he gets used to the NFL's speed.
Click to expand...

Yep. No sense having high dollar pass rushers like Watt and Clowney if you’re not playing press man like the Chiefs to give the pass rushers time to get after the QB.

We have players that can rush the passer. Watt, Clowney, Mercilus, Mckinney, Duke all can get after the QB. Heck even Covington!

But we don’t have the CBs or LBs (outside of Cole) to give QBs a reason to hold the ball 3+ seconds.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Yep. No sense having high dollar pass rushers like Watt and Clowney if you’re not playing press man like the Chiefs to give the pass rushers time to get after the QB.

We have players that can rush the passer. Watt, Clowney, Mercilus, Mckinney, Duke all can get after the QB. Heck even Covington!

But we don’t have the CBs or LBs (outside of Cole) to give QBs a reason to hold the ball 3+ seconds.
Click to expand...

We have DB's that are good in zone coverage but are very mediocre at best in man. And yet for some reason RAC elected to play predominately man coverage in the 1st half with Shareece Wright on the field! I'll state yet again, the failure was massive all the way to the top.
 
steelbtexan said:
Great post,

I agree with everything but moving Watt inside. hat's a bad idea with Watt's injury history. RAC did use Clowney inside a few times every game and he was usually quite effective.
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t want Watt inside except on 3rd and long. I think we’ve got to find a way to collapse the pocket. I’d be happy keeping Watt outside and letting Clowney go inside. The other option is find a small quick 3 technique to come in on passing downs. Anything to stop the QB from stepping up into a nicely formed pocket
 
otisbean said:
I wouldn’t want Watt inside except on 3rd and long. I think we’ve got to find a way to collapse the pocket. I’d be happy keeping Watt outside and letting Clowney go inside. The other option is find a small quick 3 technique to come in on passing downs. Anything to stop the QB from stepping up into a nicely formed pocket
Click to expand...

Carlos Watkins is supposed to be that guy but he can’t get on the field past Covington,Blackson and Dunn. Disappointing 4th round pick by the previous administration.
 
JB said:
The Chiefs didn't get close to Luck when they were only rushing 3 or 4. They got to him by changing things up and having corners that could cover. It was more a failure by Crennel in the first half than anything the players did or didn't do
Click to expand...
No argument here JB, coaching is the biggest problem this team has.
 
JB said:
142nd pick supposed to be 'The Guy' in his second season? Tough crowd
Click to expand...

I’d say rotational pass rusher is a reasonable expectation for the 142nd pick in year two. Rather than weekly healthy scratch. Blackson, Dunn and Covington all had less invested in draft capital. Reader too but he was a homerun pick and i’m a reasonable man.

But if there were a city of fans patient like you Jeff Fisher would still be churning out 7-9 seasons somewhere ;)
 
JB said:
The Chiefs didn't get close to Luck when they were only rushing 3 or 4. They got to him by changing things up and having corners that could cover. It was more a failure by Crennel in the first half than anything the players did or didn't do
Click to expand...

Good observation. Also, when the Chiefs rushed more than 3 or 4, they were playing man coverage. If Romeo did the same, which Texans CBs would you trust in man coverage?
 
Earl34 said:
Good observation. Also, when the Chiefs rushed more than 3 or 4, they were playing man coverage. If Romeo did the same, which Texans CBs would you trust in man coverage?
Click to expand...

Is there any reason we should trust them in zone? I mean we already gave up a sht load of yards passing.

I thought sending the extra rusher is what kept the Colts from scoring in the 2nd half.
 
thunderkyss said:
So you aren't a Sentrel Henderson fan?

If it is true BO'b & BG are on the same page, Kelemente, Fulton, & Henderson are more likely part of our future than not.

I can see being disappointed in Kelemente's availability, but with Rankin now considered a guard, I doubt we'll bring in another.

I don't think Davenport is the future at LT, but unless they get the guy they want he probably won't be replaced.

I can see bringing in a center.

Or not. I still wonder if Watson was simply confusing everyone with the way he was calling protection.
Click to expand...


Henderson has been extended for one more year.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Henderson has been extended for one more year.
Click to expand...

This is the same Henderson who was a former 7th round pick, played one game for the Texans, broke his ankle, had two previous surgeries for Crohn’s disease and has one strike in the NFL drug program?

If Rick Smith made this move, he would be accused of not addressing the OL.
 
Earl34 said:
This is the same Henderson who was a former 7th round pick, played one game for the Texans, broke his ankle, had two previous surgeries for Crohn’s disease and has one strike in the NFL drug program?

If Rick Smith made this move, he would be accused of not addressing the OL.
Click to expand...

You mean Henderson who was a very good starter with the Bills before the Chron's disease?

Henderson, who won the starting RT job in TC last year? A very good depth piece if not a starter. This still doesn't mean they shouldn't add OT'S in FA/Draft. Upgrade the OL and protect Watson at all costs.
 
steelbtexan said:
You mean Henderson who was a very good starter with the Bills before the Chron's disease?

Henderson, who won the starting RT job in TC last year? A very good depth piece if not a starter. This still doesn't mean they shouldn't add OT'S in FA/Draft. Upgrade the OL and protect Watson at all costs.
Click to expand...

Fair point. So, I guess it would be similar to Rick Smith signing Jeff Allen who was a former 2nd round pick and very good starter for the Chiefs. I was under the impression Smith never made a similar move to improve the OL.
 
steelbtexan said:
You mean Henderson who was a very good starter with the Bills before the Chron's disease?

Henderson, who won the starting RT job in TC last year? A very good depth piece if not a starter. This still doesn't mean they shouldn't add OT'S in FA/Draft. Upgrade the OL and protect Watson at all costs.
Click to expand...

Sounds about right for $4.5M
 
steelbtexan said:
You mean Henderson who was a very good starter with the Bills before the Chron's disease?

Henderson, who won the starting RT job in TC last year? A very good depth piece if not a starter. This still doesn't mean they shouldn't add OT'S in FA/Draft. Upgrade the OL and protect Watson at all costs.
Click to expand...

He wasn't very good. It was also 2015.

https://www.cover1.net/bills-offensive-evaluation-seantrel-henderson/

His statistical grading looks rough, but he is a young player who was really raw entering the league in 2014. So you have to expect some growing pains. But there still are question marks if he can even play in 2016, so the Bills will probably look to bring in a few players via the draft and free agency.
 
Earl34 said:
Fair point. So, I guess it would be similar to Rick Smith signing Jeff Allen who was a former 2nd round pick and very good starter for the Chiefs. I was under the impression Smith never made a similar move to improve the OL.
Click to expand...

Did Smith have a previous connection with Allen like Gaine has with Henderson?
 
I feel badly for players who are injury prone, or are forced to deal with illnesses .... the game is tough enough as it is. I was just scanning the Saints depth chart, and guess who I found at right tackle .... Derek Newton ! Henderson and Newton have a lot in common .... both right tackles, both 7th round picks, both have had difficulty staying on the field .... and neither were very effective when they did. Just this year, I heard several football gurus state that right tackle has become nearly as critical as left tackle. The young man that I relentlessly lobbied for year before last year was Ryan Ramczyk .... who is playing for the Saints. He made the Pro Bowl in his rookie season. That's not to say that I am smart .... I am anything but ! I am trying to illustrate that we constantly seem to be trying to build our foundation with late picks, other teams' rejects, and/or free agents. I simply can't foresee us ever making it to the big dance without a talented foundation !
 
steelbtexan said:
Did Smith have a previous connection with Allen like Gaine has with Henderson?
Click to expand...

I don’t know why that matters. Henderson was on the Bills’ roster way before Gaine joined the front office. Gaine did not draft, sign or had any influence on Henderson’s career with the Bills.

If connections are now the moving criteria, I guess Gaine’s connection with Shareece Wright didn’t include noticing he bites on double moves like a lion with a pork chop
 
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/1/1...george-fant-command-free-agency-chris-hubbard

And that’s the kind of money that Fant could command on the open market, which is why even if the Seahawks put a second round tender on the table that may not absolutely guarantee his return. If you’re the GM for a team like the Texans with $60M in available cap space (obviously pending the resolution of the Jadeveon Clowney contract situation), are you better off using pick 2.55 on someone who has never played in the NFL, or sending it to the Seahawks in exchange for a guy who has both off the charts athleticism and has shown he can at least hang with NFL defensive linemen? Me, I’m boxing that pick up and sending it off to the Pacific Northwest, but then again most GMs aren’t as smart (or as good looking, for that matter) as I am, so obviously the Texans are likely to keep that pick and take someone along the lines of one of the following players, all of whom have been selected between 2.51 and 2.59 over the past decade:
 
thunderkyss said:
Sounds about right for $4.5M
Click to expand...

I hope it is understood I am being sarcastic. $4.5M is too much for "depth" players. I hope this is one of those "doesn't count if he's cut before the final 53" type contracts. If there is such a thing. Or better yet, that Brian Gaine knows what he is looking at & is doubling down on Henderson.

I understand vet minimum. Still think $4.5M for a guy they "know" will most likely be a back up is too much.
 
Texansballer74 said:
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/1/1...george-fant-command-free-agency-chris-hubbard

And that’s the kind of money that Fant could command on the open market, which is why even if the Seahawks put a second round tender on the table that may not absolutely guarantee his return. If you’re the GM for a team like the Texans with $60M in available cap space (obviously pending the resolution of the Jadeveon Clowney contract situation), are you better off using pick 2.55 on someone who has never played in the NFL, or sending it to the Seahawks in exchange for a guy who has both off the charts athleticism and has shown he can at least hang with NFL defensive linemen? Me, I’m boxing that pick up and sending it off to the Pacific Northwest, but then again most GMs aren’t as smart (or as good looking, for that matter) as I am, so obviously the Texans are likely to keep that pick and take someone along the lines of one of the following players, all of whom have been selected between 2.51 and 2.59 over the past decade:
Click to expand...

Good read. I like his line of thinking.
 
Earl34 said:
I don’t know why that matters. Henderson was on the Bills’ roster way before Gaine joined the front office. Gaine did not draft, sign or had any influence on Henderson’s career with the Bills.

If connections are now the moving criteria, I guess Gaine’s connection with Shareece Wright didn’t include noticing he bites on double moves like a lion with a pork chop
Click to expand...

Devlin was Henderson's OL coach. Gaine was there when Henderson was there.

Many different connections
 
If we look back to the 2014 season, that Texans offensive line had 337 total games of experience in the NFL, 11th most that season, and it just happened to be the best ever offensive line in the O’Brien era. That offensive line included all the holdovers from the Gary Kubiak era, which is an indictment of how bad the Texans have been under O’Brien at putting together an effective offensive line.

https://footballmaven.io/texans/new...-their-offensive-line-h2bPZXG6MUWhUtfErb85RA/
 
TheKDog said:
If we look back to the 2014 season, that Texans offensive line had 337 total games of experience in the NFL, 11th most that season, and it just happened to be the best ever offensive line in the O’Brien era. That offensive line included all the holdovers from the Gary Kubiak era, which is an indictment of how bad the Texans have been under O’Brien at putting together an effective offensive line.

https://footballmaven.io/texans/new...-their-offensive-line-h2bPZXG6MUWhUtfErb85RA/
Click to expand...

I agree with you the O line has regressed in the last 4 years, I just don't think we noticed it because frankly we didn't have a QB worth protecting. So really did we care how many sacks they took other than the lost yardage? Odds are they were just going to throw it to the other team anyway so hey better lost yardage than an interception right? It's kind of like, if a tree falls in the forest and it hits a mime does anyone care?

Now whenever we see Watson take a sack its not only the lost yardage and the fact that might have been a scoring play but its also in the back of our minds that each sack could be another game down the line that Watson can't play. Getting the franchise QB was the goal and now that we have that the next goal is protecting that QB. I agree they could have worked on both at once, a couple of third rounds picks and maybe a second here and there, but they didn't so no use worrying about it. Lets just hope they can pull a rabbit out of their helmet this draft and get some big boys that can at least slow the other teams defense down.
 
Draftwire had interesting take with info I've used to defend the Oline. Gist was the line needs time together to become better but also using draft and free agency to better. Focus on the former and not the latter. Blowing up the line not what is needed.
 
badboy said:
Draftwire had interesting take with info I've used to defend the Oline. Gist was the line needs time together to become better but also using draft and free agency to better. Focus on the former and not the latter. Blowing up the line not what is needed.
Click to expand...
Agree. You can't toss 'em all out.
Bring in two decent rookies and a decent vet to compete - but one needs to be able to back up the Left tackle position in case Davenport doesn't measure up.
 
Texansphan said:
Agree. You can't toss 'em all out.
Bring in two decent rookies and a decent vet to compete - but one needs to be able to back up the Left tackle position in case Davenport doesn't measure up.
Click to expand...

The OT they get needs to be broken in by Davenport for the first few games like Salaam broke in Brown.
 
Those old zbs guys played better than these bigger, physical guys. Part of coaching is keeping what you have that works. Mike Tomlin gets hired and even though he's off Dungy tree, he didn't change the defense. The defensive personnel was set up 3-4 zone blitz not 4-3 cover 2. He kept what worked vs trying to change everything. Ben Jones, Brandon Brooks, and Duane Brown are better than anyone else they've brought in. Think about this, Cowboys offensive line struggles, they fire the coach midseason. The Texans ol have been bad the last 2 yrs, yet the ol coach still has a job.
 
leebigeztx said:
Those old zbs guys played better than these bigger, physical guys. Part of coaching is keeping what you have that works. Mike Tomlin gets hired and even though he's off Dungy tree, he didn't change the defense. The defensive personnel was set up 3-4 zone blitz not 4-3 cover 2. He kept what worked vs trying to change everything. Ben Jones, Brandon Brooks, and Duane Brown are better than anyone else they've brought in. Think about this, Cowboys offensive line struggles, they fire the coach midseason. The Texans ol have been bad the last 2 yrs, yet the ol coach still has a job.
Click to expand...

The Texans org made a decision not to pay those guys.

Agreed with the last sentence of this post.
 
Agree to many points made on this page. The Texans are in no position to dump their current OL personnel nor are they in a position to use 5 of 7 picks on the OL.

From what I'm gathering, both Gaine and OB seem content to give Davenport the opportunity to remain the future at LT.....it sucks but how do we control that if that's their path? What I would do to cover thy arses in the event he fails....sign a veteran LT like Brown (NE) or Donovan Smith (Tampa Bay) to carry the load until the Texans can finally get over the Davenport Project and bring in a new LT in the 2020 NFL Draft. The veteran could mentor or bridge the gap until the rookie is good to go.

I see Risner as top draft b/c the Texans really have nothing in regards to RT outside Henderson whom I would envision as a bridge player if Risner needed a little time to adjust. I also changed direction a little bit and wouldn't mind seeing the Texans pick OC/OG, Erik McCoy- Texas A&M. He's a versatile OL who possesses a mean streak and could play both C/G out of the gate. Guy is also bull strong which could pay dividends in the running game, especially the way OB likes to run it up the gut.....need a nasty minded individual to make it work.

So, I could see the addition of LT, Donovan Smith, RT/OC, Dalton Risner and OG/OC, Erik McCoy being enough pieces being added to the pie for 2019. It's a process and if this group takes a step forward, it'll shed new light on team needs come the 2020 NFL Draft.
 
Last edited:
OptimisticTexan said:
Agree to many points made on this page. The Texans are in no position to dump their current OL personnel nor are they in a position to use 5 of 7 picks on the OL.

From what I'm gathering, both Gaine and OB seem content to give Davenport the opportunity to remain the future at LT.....it sucks but how do we control that if that's their path? What I would do to cover thy arses in the event he fails....sign a veteran LT like Ja'Wuan James (Miami) or Donovan Smith (Tampa Bay) to carry the load until the Texans can finally get over the Davenport Project and bring in a new LT in the 2020 NFL Draft and the veterans can mentor or bridge the gap.

I see Risner as top draft b/c the Texans really have nothing in regards to RT outside Henderson whom I would envision as a bridge player if Risner needed a little time to adjust. I also changed direction a little bit and wouldn't mind seeing the Texans pick OC/OG, Erik McCoy- Texas A&M. He's a versatile OL who possesses a mean streak and could play both C/G out of the gate. Guy is also bull strong which could pay dividends in the running game, especially the way OB likes to run it up the gut.....need a nasty minded individual to make it work.

So, I could see the addition of LT, Donovan Smith, RT/OC, Dalton Risner and OG/OC, Erik McCoy being enough pieces being added to the pie for 2019. It's a process and if this group takes a step forward, it'll shed new light on team needs come the 2020 NFL Draft.
Click to expand...

James is a RT just fyi
 
Shishkabob said:
Speaking of Brown, he was a beast against KC on Sunday

I am expecting about half or more of the FA tackles to re-sign with their teams before FA even starts
Click to expand...

I would be really shocked if Beli doesn't open his wallet and keep Brown as their LT for 2019....especially if Tom wants to play another season. This could become Tom's call as well or at least his input might be welcomed.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I would be really shocked if Beli doesn't open his wallet and keep Brown as their LT for 2019....especially if Tom wants to play another season. This could become Tom's call as well or at least his input might be welcomed.
Click to expand...

It will be interesting to see what they do, they still have their 1st round rookie who missed the season with an ACL, wonder if he will be relegated to back up swing tackle duty if they retain Brown, as both Brown and Cannon have played very well this season
 
Shishkabob said:
Speaking of Brown, he was a beast against KC on Sunday

I am expecting about half or more of the FA tackles to re-sign with their teams before FA even starts
Click to expand...

Wish we jumped on Brown. Pats got him for a 3rd rounder. Texans had two higher 3rd rounders at the time.
 
TheKDog said:
Wish we jumped on Brown. Pats got him for a 3rd rounder. Texans had two higher 3rd rounders at the time.
Click to expand...

some Bay area reporters have said it was kind of a payback deal for Jimmy G. 49ers wanted more, but it was they returned the favor, so maybe we would have been able to get him maybe not who knows, sure would be nice though
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top