Something here seems so familiar, ARTICLE

[steelbtexan]

Making the playoffs and improving as a team every yr while you're building a team would be considered being successful. Rick and Gary have failed in this regard. But BoB still wont admit or pay for his mistake in judgement.

That or making the playoffs once in a decade might be considered a measure of success. You know something the Texans have never achieved under Robert C. McNair leadership.

 

[CharloTex]

Success without reaching the main goal is an opinion. So really the Steelers Failed to do the job they were supposed to do. which is reach the Superbowl.

Well, they did reach the Super Bowl. It's pretty narrow-minded to say that 31 NFL teams are unsuccessful every year, just as it is open minded to the extreme to say that 32 NFL have some form of success evey year. I think we can all agree that the point of the REGULAR SEASON is to pry your way into the playoffs. Now if you've been there for 4 straight years and never advanced, one might question the "success" of the team in the 4th year. But if you've never been there in your team's history, I think you could pretty easily term the year a "success" if you make the playoffs for the first time ever. As for a retrospective view of a team that makes the palyoffs every other year, I think you could call them generally successful without taking too much heat from the in crowd.

It may be a matter of opinion, but I'm refering to a consensus opinion, not a fringe opinion.

 

[steelbtexan]

Success without reaching the main goal is an opinion. So really the Steelers Failed to do the job they were supposed to do. which is reach the Superbowl.

By the standard set by the Rooney family, yes this season would be considered a failure. Even though that goal is unrealistic they set the bar high every yr.

Unlike BoB and the Texans.

 

[Mr teX]

Bob McNair has given away more money than I will make in my entire life.

He has consistently said that the way the team will make more money and add more value to the franchise is by winning.
From the beginning of the franchise, he has mentioned the Steelers as an organization he admires. Easy to talk about not doing knee jerk moves, harder to actually do that when everyone is calling for your head.

This statement right here is why the whole "bob is in it solely for the money" argument is silly.

 

[EllisUnit]

Well, they did reach the Super Bowl. It's pretty narrow-minded to say that 31 NFL teams are unsuccessful every year, just as it is open minded to the extreme to say that 32 NFL had success evey year. I think we can all agree that the point of the REGUKAR SEASON is to pry your way into the playoffs. Now if you've been there for 4 straight years and never advanced, one might question the "success" of the team in the 4th year. But if you've never been there in your team's history, I think you could pretty easily term the year a success if you make the playoffs for the first time ever.

It may be a matter of opinion, but I'm refering to a consensus opinion, not a fringe opinion.

i agree to an extent, But to compare our team to teams who have been around since the 50s our 60s is out there. If u add up all our Success to their success it seems kinda unfaid dont ya think.

 

[Mr teX]

By the standard set by the Rooney family, yes this season would be considered a failure. Even though that goal is unrealistic they set the bar high every yr.

Unlike BoB and the Texans.

ridiculous :vincepalm:

 

[EllisUnit]

By the standard set by the Rooney family, yes this season would be considered a failure. Even though that goal is unrealistic they set the bar high every yr.

Unlike BoB and the Texans.

i wouldn't say Bob don't set the Bar high, i think that He has made some poor decisions but our week 1 win against the colts shows you he wants to win. Fix our secondary and we will be talking about how the refs made a bad call in the play-offs next year.

 

[CharloTex]

By the standard set by the Rooney family, yes this season would be considered a failure. Even though that goal is unrealistic they set the bar high every yr.

Unlike BoB and the Texans.

Really?! Perhaps in the most critical, politically correct stearn-faced view, but there is no way that the Rooney's are calling Tomlin into their office and saying/yelling, "ok, how are we going to fix this so we can be successful next year, unlike this year?"

 

[steelbtexan]

This statement right here is why the whole "bob is in it solely for the money" argument is silly.

And also not true.

I cant find the thread but CnD started it

It shows how a team can make more $$$$ by not making the playoffs than by making them.

 

[EllisUnit]

And also not true.

I cant find the thread but CnD started it

It shows how a team can make more $$$$ by not making the playoffs than by making them.

so you think we arent making the play-offs on purpose ????

 

[steelbtexan]

ridiculous :vincepalm:

The Steelers dont set winning the SB as there main goal each yr and expect to reach that goal?

 

[Double Barrel]

What originally set me off was the comment about GB and Pittsburgh not accepting mediocrity.

My specific point was that they do not accept perpetual mediocrity.

"Perpetual" is a key word in my point.

For instance, Ray Rhodes was the Packers coach in 1999 for one year. He went 8-8. Did GB accept it? No, they fired him and hired Sherman.

Sherman had five winning seasons (9-7, 12-4, 12-4, 10-6, 10-6) and then went 4-12. Did they accept it? No, they fired him and hired McCarthy. (BTW, despite receiving a contract extension earlier in the 2005 season, Sherman was fired by the Packers on January 2, 2006, after compiling a 4–12 record — Green Bay's first losing record since the 1991 season.*)

Do you honest believe that GB would allow Kubiak to flounder for five seasons without taking action? Historical facts prove otherwise.

 

[HOU-TEX]

My specific point was that they do not accept perpetual mediocrity.

"Perpetual" is a key word in my point.

For instance, Ray Rhodes was the Packers coach in 1999 for one year. He went 8-8. Did GB accept it? No, they fired him and hired Sherman.

Sherman had five winning seasons (9-7, 12-4, 12-4, 10-6, 10-6) and then went 4-12. Did they accept it? No, they fired him and hired McCarthy. (BTW, despite receiving a contract extension earlier in the 2005 season, Sherman was fired by the Packers on January 2, 2006, after compiling a 4–12 record — Green Bay's first losing record since the 1991 season.*)

Do you honest believe that GB would allow Kubiak to flounder for five seasons without taking action? Historical facts prove otherwise.

Well, he does have some purdy lips......

 

[CharloTex]

i agree to an extent, But to compare our team to teams who have been around since the 50s our 60s is out there. If u add up all our Success to their success it seems kinda unfaid dont ya think.

In my opinion, we haven't had any success, other than the kind of success and congratulations that may be heaped upon you for trying hard. So start the comparisons however you want - discount our first 4 years, and only spotlight our last 5. Or only our last four, or even just last year. There's no way to spin it to say that the Texans have ever been "successful."

Now, having said that, I don't believe that over the course of our history, we've had the 7th or worse 53-man talent in the AFC, and because of that we've not made the playoffs. In fact, I believe that we have, and have had, amongst the top 6 53-man rosters in the AFC. So you see where I'm going with this - the coaches have not produced a playoff even though we've had the 6th or better squad for at least a couple , maybe a few years now.

 

[steelbtexan]

Really?! Perhaps in the most critical, politically correct stearn-faced view, but there is no way that the Rooney's are calling Tomlin into their office and saying/yelling, "ok, how are we going to fix this so we can be successful next year, unlike this year?"

No, but you can bet that the Rooneys are trying to figure out how to win a SB next yr. (Right Now as we speak)

That's the way they operate.

 

[Mr teX]

And also not true.

I cant find the thread but CnD started it

It shows how a team can make more $$$$ by not making the playoffs than by making them.

Find the thread, i'd really like to read that b/c i find that extremely hard to believe. Not with teams like the yankees & red sox able to field 200 million dollar payrolls & not be hurting like a kansas city royals franchise.

 

[sandman]

By the standard set by the Rooney family, yes this season would be considered a failure. Even though that goal is unrealistic they set the bar high every yr.

Unlike BoB and the Texans.

and yet, Tomlin is only the 3rd coach in the last 40+ years for the team. For setting the bar unrealistically high, they sure do hang on to those coaches that fail year after year, only reaching the Super Bowl less than 20% of the time.

 

[Mr teX]

The Steelers dont set winning the SB as there main goal each yr and expect to reach that goal?

not that, the fact that you think every team doesn't do that.....

 

[EllisUnit]

In my opinion, we haven't had any success, other than the kind of success and congratulations that may be heaped upon you for trying hard. So start the comparisons however you want - discount our first 4 years, and only spotlight our last 5. Or only our last four, or even just last year. There's no way to spin it to say that the Texans have ever been "successful."

Now, having said that, I don't believe that over the course of our history, we've had the 7th or worse 53-man talent in the AFC, and because of that we've not made the playoffs. In fact, I believe that we have, and have had, amongst the top 6 53-man rosters in the AFC. So you see where I'm going with this - the coaches have not produced a playoff even though we've had the 6th or better squad for at least a couple , maybe a few years now.

i'd say they have been successful. they successfully let us down all year. they successfully enertained us with all the "COMEBACKS" this year and they successfully fooled us into thinking our Kiddie CBs would be Ok

 

[steelbtexan]

My specific point was that they do not accept perpetual mediocrity.

"Perpetual" is a key word in my point.

For instance, Ray Rhodes was the Packers coach in 1999 for one year. He went 8-8. Did GB accept it? No, they fired him and hired Sherman.

Sherman had five winning seasons (9-7, 12-4, 12-4, 10-6, 10-6) and then went 4-12. Did they accept it? No, they fired him and hired McCarthy. (BTW, despite receiving a contract extension earlier in the 2005 season, Sherman was fired by the Packers on January 2, 2006, after compiling a 4–12 record — Green Bay's first losing record since the 1991 season.*)

Do you honest believe that GB would allow Kubiak to flounder for five seasons without taking action? Historical facts prove otherwise.

This is the difference between McNair's privately owned Texans and the publicly owned Packers.

 

[Showtime100]

My specific point was that they do not accept perpetual mediocrity.

"Perpetual" is a key word in my point.

For instance, Ray Rhodes was the Packers coach in 1999 for one year. He went 8-8. Did GB accept it? No, they fired him and hired Sherman.

Sherman had five winning seasons (9-7, 12-4, 12-4, 10-6, 10-6) and then went 4-12. Did they accept it? No, they fired him and hired McCarthy. (BTW, despite receiving a contract extension earlier in the 2005 season, Sherman was fired by the Packers on January 2, 2006, after compiling a 4–12 record - Green Bay's first losing record since the 1991 season.*)

Do you honest believe that GB would allow Kubiak to flounder for five seasons without taking action? Historical facts prove otherwise.

If you want to take it a little further even Detroit tends to give coaches less time than Kubiak has enjoyed to put something real on the board. Wayne Fontes and Monty Clark are the only two coaches (I'm betting/guessing) that have lasted five or more years since the merger.

 

[CharloTex]

The Steelers dont set winning the SB as there main goal each yr and expect to reach that goal?

When you're eyeballing Mount Everest, you don't look at some point 2/3rds of the way up as your ultimate goal. If so, go climb Mount McKinnley. Every football team eyeballs the Super Bowl win as the pinnacle that defines ultimate success. But if you climb within 1,000 feet of Everest's peak, but decide to turn back in order to survive to climb another day, you're not going to give yourself 39 lashes at the base of the mountain.

 

[CharloTex]

No, but you can bet that the Rooneys are trying to figure out how to win a SB next yr. (Right Now as we speak)

That's the way they operate.

Well, that's how all teams operate. But both the Steelers and Texans right this minute are trying to figure out first how to win their first game next year, then how to assure a playoff appearance, and thirdly perhaps, get to and win the Super Bowl. Pittsburgh isn't so self-ablsorbed as to believe that their only challenge next year will be playing better in and winning the Super Bowl.

 

[steelbtexan]

not that, the fact that you think every team doesn't do that.....

Not all teams (Texans) some are satisfied with a 9-7 season. In fact 9-7 is celebrated as some kind of an acclomplishment.

Get back to me when the Texans win the 1st big game that matters.

 

[EllisUnit]

Not all teams (Texans) some are satisfied with a 9-7 season. In fact 9-7 is celebrated as some kind of an acclomplishment.

Get back to me when the Texans win the 1st big game that matters.

BUt they do go into every offseason/season with the goal to win the superbowl. i think thats his point.

 

[Double Barrel]

Find the thread, i'd really like to read that b/c i find that extremely hard to believe. Not with teams like the yankees & red sox able to field 200 million dollar payrolls & not be hurting like a kansas city royals franchise.

I can't find CnD's specific thread/article, but here's one that supports the same premise:

Do NFL Teams Profit from the Playoffs?

The Greater a Team's Success in the NFL Post Season, the More Profits They Lose

The more success an NFL team has during the season (making the playoffs, winning a division, and winning the Super Bowl) the more profit the team makes, right. Wrong. Teams usually lose money during their post season play. However, a team’s value usually increases in following years with current season playoff success.

Full article

 

[EllisUnit]

I can't find CnD's specific thread/article, but here's one that supports the same premise:

But some cant seriously believe McNair is trying to make us NOt make the play-offs because of that !?!?!?!?

 

[Thorn]

McNair wants the team to be successful and win a Super Bowl. He just doesn't know how to go about it. I don't believe for a second he likes being owner of a bad team. He's just in the dark about what to do to make the Texans a good team. So instead of having Bud Adams to bear, we have McNair. Take your pick, but I believe most folks around here would still take McNair over Bud Adams, they're just gonna ***** about it is all.

 

[steelbtexan]

I dont believe McNair doesn't want to make the playoffs.

I do belive that McNair wants to make the playoffs his way. (Cororate/profit taking)

 

[EllisUnit]

I dont believe McNair doesn't want to make the playoffs.

I do belive that McNair wants to make the payoffs his way. (Cororate/profit taking)

huh

 

[Double Barrel]

McNair wants the team to be successful and win a Super Bowl. He just doesn't know how to go about it. I don't believe for a second he likes being owner of a bad team. He's just in the dark about what to do to make the Texans a good team. So instead of having Bud Adams to bear, we have McNair. Take your pick, but I believe most folks around here would still take McNair over Bud Adams, they're just gonna ***** about it is all.

Exactly. I was going to say the same thing, but you saved me the typing.

I do think he wants to win, but losing just doesn't bother him as much as it might others. He has a very optimistic attitude about "we'll get them next year" that many of us just don't share with him anymore.

 

[steelbtexan]

Adams
McNair
None of the above

I'll take none of the above for $1000 Alex.

 

[steelbtexan]

huh

LOL

Freudian slip, I guess

 

[steelbtexan]

Exactly. I was going to say the same thing, but you saved me the typing.

I do think he wants to win, but losing just doesn't bother him as much as it might others. He has a very optimistic attitude about "we'll get them next year" that many of us just don't share with him anymore.

9 next yrs and counting

 

[JB]

Adams
McNair
None of the above

I'll take none of the above for $1000 Alex.

So you would rather have no team than what Houston has experienced so far?

 

[steelbtexan]

So you would rather have no team than what Houston has experienced so far?

I would rather have an owner that's fully committed to bringing a championship caliber team to this city.

If BoB's not this. Then given the choices I would rather have no football in this city. I learned to not miss the Oilers and I could learn not to miss The Texans. If BoB isn't about winning.

See I love football and actually got to a point where I enjoyed watching the best NFL games each Sunday on Direct TV. I no longer do this because I'm at the Reliant during home games.

I bought the Kangaroo TV at the stadium for a few yrs. But the Texans did away with this. Probably wasn't profitable enough for the Texans.

 

[Thorn]

Then given the choices I would rather have no football in this city.

I couldn't disagree more. But to each his own. Maybe I’m just a masochist, but I’d still rather have an NFL team to follow, even if it’s bad, than to have no team at all. Besides which, if Houston didn't have a team, I probably wouldn't even be watching the NFL. I'm not much of a pro sports fan at all, but I am a Houston fan, if that makes any sense. So if we have a team, I'll watch the NFL. If we don't then I don't care much about a bunch of damn millionaire owners and players wasting my time on Sunday.

 

[JB]

I would rather have an owner that's fully committed to bringing a championship caliber team to this city.

If BoB's not this. Then given the choices I would rather have no football in this city. I learned to not miss the Oilers and I could learn not to miss The Texans. If BoB isn't about winning.

See I love football and actually got to a point where I enjoyed watching the best NFL games each Sunday on Direct TV. I no longer do this because I'm at the Reliant during home games.

I bought the Kangaroo TV at the stadium for a few yrs. But the Texans did away with this. Probably wasn't profitable enough for the Texans.

Good reply. I understand where you are coming from. The difference between us is not so much. Only, I tend to look to next year with as much optimism as I can. I try to look on the good side of things because I have seen the bad so much.

I figure that things have to get better, otherwise there is nothing but depression.

I don't expect it to get better, but I can hope it does. I am going to drink the koolaid and wear the glasses. If I don't, I might have to start drinking seriously...

 

[spurstexanstros]

I've said for the last few years we're building a very stable organization that could be a dynasty.

The only catch is we're not winning. If we start winning, I think we would have a core that would last for years.

Whether the current group can do that or not is a whole other thread.

yard.. I cant agree more.

Its the winning that seems to elude us...I just wonder how much longer we can continue to say "missed it by that much" being the league's Maxwell Smart is running a bit thin for me.

 

[steelbtexan]

Good reply. I understand where you are coming from. The difference between us is not so much. Only, I tend to look to next year with as much optimism as I can. I try to look on the good side of things because I have seen the bad so much.

I figure that things have to get better, otherwise there is nothing but depression.

I don't expect it to get better, but I can hope it does. I am going to drink the koolaid and wear the glasses. If I don't, I might have to start drinking seriously...

This is going to be the best draft in Texans history. (Not that it would take much.

Garys goings to figure out how to use time outs/challanges better. He's going to figure out that running the ball against the Colts is a good thing.

Wades going to fix the defense in 1 yr and they become a top defense.

Rick is going to have sleep apnea surgery during the weekend of the draft.

BoB's going to hand over the reins to Cal and the Texans are going to get serious about putting a winning product on the field.

Hows that for positive. LOL

 

[JB]

This is going to be the best draft in Texans history. (Not that it would take much.

Garys goings to figure out how to use time outs/challanges better. He's going to figure out that running the ball against the Colts is a good thing.

Wades going to fix the defense in 1 yr and they become a top defense.

Rick is going to have sleep apnea surgery during the weekend of the draft.

BoB's going to hand over the reins to Cal and the Texans are going to get serious about putting a winning product on the field.

Hows that for positive. LOL

I said positive, not delusional

 

[houstonspartan]

Sigh. Here we go with the Steelers comparison yet again.

Look, people. Here's the bottom line: The Steelers would have fired Kubiak after year three. Green Bay MIGHT have given him a fourth year.

Get it? Those teams have standards. Fairly high standards at that.

It's ridiculus logic to say we're becoming The Pittsburg Steelers when we have a coach in YEAR SIX with no success at all.

Y-E-A-R S-I-X

 

[Thorn]

Sigh. Here we go with the Steelers comparison yet again.

Look, people. Here's the bottom line: The Steelers would have fired Kubiak after year three. Green Bay MIGHT have given him a fourth year.

Get it? Those teams have standards. Fairly high standards at that.

It's ridiculus logic to say we're becoming The Pittsburg Steelers when we have a coach in YEAR SIX with no success at all.

Y-E-A-R S-I-X

Not that I disagree, because I don't, but at this point what does it matter? We have our coaching staff for next year, and to speak that horrible cliché, it is what it is.

 

[steelbtexan]

Not that I disagree, because I don't, but at this point what does it matter? We have our coaching staff for next year, and to speak that horrible cliché, it is what it is.

You are correct sir.

Obviously BoB doesn't care what his loyal fan base wants.

We as fans will just have to deal with it. But let the season start out 0-2/1-3 and it's going to be ugly at Reliant.

 

[houstonspartan]

Not that I disagree, because I don't, but at this point what does it matter? We have our coaching staff for next year, and to speak that horrible cliché, it is what it is.

No, I agree with you. I was just saying we need to stop with the nonsense that we're becoming the next Steelers. I was saying that, in context, the Steelers would not have given a coach six years to make the playoffs. Most teams wouldn't, and certainly not the Steelers.

 

[Thorn]

No, I agree with you. I was just saying we need to stop with the nonsense that we're becoming the next Steelers. I was saying that, in context, the Steelers would not have given a coach six years to make the playoffs. Most teams wouldn't, and certainly not the Steelers.

Well, the thing is, if we do really good next year McNair will look like a genius for all this. I don't think that will happen though. Until we get a REAL head coach, we are in for a long run of Oiler history without the playoffs. I just don't think Bob McNair gets it.

It's a tough job being a Texan fan, but I'm gonna tough it out anyway.

 

[Lucky]

Well, the thing is, if we do really good next year McNair will look like a genius for all this.

A genius that takes 10 years to build a winner? No, he'll look more like this guy.

 

[thunderkyss]

My point is that "stability, patience and building through the draft" works if you've hired the right people. Otherwise, it's perpetual mediocrity, which is certainly represented by one winning season in 9 years.

I understand this. I agree with this.

However, I don't know why we dwell on this. McNair knows the previous 9 years reflect failure & mediocrity. Many people here for some reason want to believe that was McNair's goal.

It took him 4 years to axe Capers & Casserly. But he did. He made a change. If we're going by W-L record as the measure of success, in Capers first 3 years, the Texans went 4-12, 5-11, then 7-9.

Was that not acceptable for an expansion team? The wheels came off, we went 2-14 the following season. Was it the players? Was it the coach? Being that both the HC & the GM were fired, I believe the conclusion was that it was both. Forget about what they said. McNair's actions clearly states the belief was both.

I'm sure McNair knows the first 4 years were a monumental failure. He made drastic changes.
In the last 5 seasons, we've failed at the most important stat, the W-L. But it hasn't been the complete total failure of the first 4 seasons. So I'm pretty sure McNair doesn't look at it as perpetual mediocrtiy spanning back 9 years. He has, and has had, one of the most prolific offenses in the league...... he's got a QB on the all time stat list. He's got a WR on the all time stat list, he's got a RB on the all time stat list. He's got 5 offensive players that are pro-bowlers. Not "Pro Bowl Caliber" but bona-fide Pro Bowlers. One of which is a pro-bowl MVP. He's got 3 bona-fide defensive pro-bowlers. Worst defense in the league.. but 3 pro bowlers.

I know this post is going to be twisted, as you've surely read what I had to say, and deduced that I (or that I believe McNair) puts all that bullshit above winning. That is not the case.

 

[thunderkyss]

I'm just trying to figure out what makes 9-7 successful for GB and mediocre for Houston.

in 2009, 9-7 was successful for the Ravens, the Jets, & the Steelers.

The best coaches in the league got their teams to 9-7, "success."

Gary Kubiak does the same thing, "mediocre."

Those other coaches get "the benefit of the doubt" because they had been to the play-offs before, or in the case of the Ravens & Jets were going to the play-offs that year.

Those "better" coaches took "better" teams to 9-7 (the 2008 Jets went 9-7, the 2008 Ravens went 11-5, the 2008 Steelers won the Super Bowl) and they were "successful"

Our coach took a team that had never had a winning season, never been in to the play-offs, to 9-7.... didn't even have a running game... but he's a failure.. had a gimpy Center, lost both starting guards & his pro-bowl TE...

Fail.

This doesn't change the fact that I do believe Kubiak should have got us to the play-offs in 2010. 5 years is long enough. It's a shame he wasn't more successful in the 4 prior years, that would have bought him more time in my eyes. It's the bed he made, the bed he has to lie in..... I think he should have been fired after 2010.

Where I differ from the fans who claim that Tomlin, Harbaugh, & Ryan are better coaches than Kubiak, is that I don't consider their 9-7 to be any better than Kubiak's 9-7. 9-7 is 9-7

 

[thunderkyss]

Okay, I gotcha'. My speculation would be that it comes down to perspective. Sort like one of those optical illusions where the shade of gray is really the same but looks different if it's surrounded by white or surrounded by black (abstract example, I know).

The Packers went to the post-season 13 times since the '92 season. Perhaps going to playoffs and winning championships makes those 8-8 and 9-7 records bearable? So regardless of an individual season, they have long term hope because they have experienced success. And since '92, the Packers never went beyond two seasons without making the playoffs.

For us, however, those 8-8 / 9-7 records are the peaks. And without any post-season appearances in 9 years, it feels hopeless sometimes.

This makes the most sense concerning the situation.

What I don't understand, is that knowing this, or believing this, how can you be so hard on McNair for making the decision he made?

I understand not agreeing with it. I don't agree with it. But it makes sense to me why McNair would go the route he has. It would make even more sense if he were to replace Rick Smith after the draft. But I just listed our pro-bowl players in an earlier post, so I really don't see that happening either.

slow moving train on the right tracks?

Who knows?