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So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

thunderkyss said:
As of right now, we've got Fitzpatrick, Keenum, & Yates. Hopefully we'll be adding a younger studd to the mix as well, but for now.... who do you think has the inside edge? Who do you think is the strongest candidate? Of the three, who do you think will most likely win the starting job?

For the guy who is #2 on your list, at this time, what do you think he needs to do to move into #1?
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Hard to say at this point.
You would think that Keenum might have an edge having played in a spread offense in college and that, from early indications, the spread might be what O'Brien's offense will employ the most.

But Keenum's ability to recognize what the defense is up to is suspect.

And that's where Fitzpatrick's experience may give him an edge. One would think that there shouldn't be many defensive sets a nine-year vet hasn't seen.

And I don't know what to think about Yates at this point. Is he a dark horse or just a camp arm?

My ranking is Fitz, Keenum, Yates.
Gonna be fun to watch.
 
In the back I'm my mind I'm hoping OB can make Keenum a bona fide starting NFL QB after we take Clowney and become a force next year....
 
Good players will make significant improvement in their skills and in their performance in their second year. Even though he had a practice squad season, Keenum was considered a first year player in 2013 so 2014 will be his second year. June Jones saw something in Case, so even though he had his problems last season, he should make significant improvements this year in his decision making and in his play. I give Case the edge on being the starter game one, provided we don't take a QB 1-1.
 
thunderkyss said:
I thought it was the other way around. That when Wilson started using his legs, the Texans' tactics stopped working.

Either way, the thing Wilson has done to make him so "spectacular" is that he's incredibly efficient & protects the football. He's averaged 100 passer rating two years in a row. That's amazing.

Even when Matt Schaub had an elite defense & an elite running game, he didn't average 100 passer rating. In 2011, when we should have won the Super Bowl, he averaged 96.8 playing in only 10 games.

For whatever reason, Wilson is very underrated right now. Maybe because he plays on such a good team, I don't know.
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Re watch the game and you will see the D sugar rushing Wilson. Maintaining their lanes and not really trying to sack him, just keep him in the pocket. In the 2nd half the were full out rushing leaving all kinds of lanes for him to run through. He was only taking what they were giving him, which was wide open running lanes unlike in the first half.

Protecting the ball, and not turning it over is what he does best, but that is not an elite QB by any stretch in my eyes. Perhaps he will become that in the future, but as of now, at least in my eyes, he is nothing more than a middle of the road QB who minimizes mistakes.

I still think the Mallett trade is a possibility, but if O'Brien gives up a 2:1 for him, I am going to be very disappointed. Unless Mallett comes in and just kills it, which is possible, but IMO unlikely.
 
Nitrofish said:
Re watch the game and you will see the D sugar rushing Wilson. Maintaining their lanes and not really trying to sack him, just keep him in the pocket. In the 2nd half the were full out rushing leaving all kinds of lanes for him to run through. He was only taking what they were giving him, which was wide open running lanes unlike in the first half.

Protecting the ball, and not turning it over is what he does best, but that is not an elite QB by any stretch in my eyes. Perhaps he will become that in the future, but as of now, at least in my eyes, he is nothing more than a middle of the road QB who minimizes mistakes.
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When you have a defense as good as theirs , that's all you ask of your QB , don't screw it up. I do somewhat agree with your eye test .... but think you may be selling him short as he can make a defense pay with either throwing or running.

I still think the Mallett trade is a possibility, but if O'Brien gives up a 2:1 for him, I am going to be very disappointed. Unless Mallett comes in and just kills it, which is possible, but IMO unlikely.
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I doubt a trade for Mallett is in the works & would be highly disappointed giving up #33 for him much less #33 and anything else. Yes , he has a big arm .... but that's not even a requirement for success , show me the ability to read a defense , slide in the pocket and make throws down the seams and to the deep outs.

Also concerning Mallett , I hesitate to trade premium draft picks for a guy who will be playing the final year of his rookie deal & then have to pony up standard QB money for after that year.
I much prefer to draft a guy & have him for multiple years on his rookie deal allowing you to spend those funds elsewhere then make adjustments once he comes off that rookie deal.
 
Corrosion said:
When you have a defense as good as theirs , that's all you ask of your QB , don't screw it up. I do somewhat agree with your eye test .... but think you may be selling him short as he can make a defense pay with either throwing or running.
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Yeah, we've seen QBs who make minimal mistakes & benefit from suffocating defenses. Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, even Joe Flacco (not the Super Bowl, that was on Flacco).

Then we've seen young play making game managers make the most of their awesome defenses. Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger.....

Wilson is a lot closer to the Brady/Roethlisberger model than he is to the Dilfer/Johnson model.
 
thunderkyss said:
Yeah, we've seen QBs who make minimal mistakes & benefit from suffocating defenses. Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, even Joe Flacco (not the Super Bowl, that was on Flacco).

Then we've seen young play making game managers make the most of their awesome defenses. Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger.....

Wilson is a lot closer to the Brady/Roethlisberger model than he is to the Dilfer/Johnson model.
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Was just about to make the Roethlisberger comparison. 1st two seasons:

Big Ben: 563 att., 64.6% comp., 5006 yds, 34 TDs, 20 INTs, 8.9 ypa, 192.5 ypg, 98.3 rating.
Wilson: 800 att., 63.6% comp., 6475 yds, 52 TDs, 19 INTs, 8.1 ypa, 202.3 ypg, 100.6 rating.

If anything Wilson has been asked to do more and done it as well or better. Not sure why he gets downplayed so much.
 
infantrycak said:
Was just about to make the Roethlisberger comparison. 1st two seasons:

Big Ben: 563 att., 64.6% comp., 5006 yds, 34 TDs, 20 INTs, 8.9 ypa, 192.5 ypg, 98.3 rating.
Wilson: 800 att., 63.6% comp., 6475 yds, 52 TDs, 19 INTs, 8.1 ypa, 202.3 ypg, 100.6 rating.

If anything Wilson has been asked to do more and done it as well or better. Not sure why he gets downplayed so much.
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I used to down play Ben all the time. I think it was out of envy.
 
thunderkyss said:
Yeah, we've seen QBs who make minimal mistakes & benefit from suffocating defenses. Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, even Joe Flacco (not the Super Bowl, that was on Flacco).

Then we've seen young play making game managers make the most of their awesome defenses. Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger.....

Wilson is a lot closer to the Brady/Roethlisberger model than he is to the Dilfer/Johnson model.
Click to expand...

infantrycak said:
Was just about to make the Roethlisberger comparison. 1st two seasons:

Big Ben: 563 att., 64.6% comp., 5006 yds, 34 TDs, 20 INTs, 8.9 ypa, 192.5 ypg, 98.3 rating.
Wilson: 800 att., 63.6% comp., 6475 yds, 52 TDs, 19 INTs, 8.1 ypa, 202.3 ypg, 100.6 rating.

If anything Wilson has been asked to do more and done it as well or better. Not sure why he gets downplayed so much.
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If the 2014 edition of our Texans are going to have much success, this is the path they'll have to follow. Hopefully Romeo can construct a solid defense to minimize the points we give up (and maybe get a bunch of turnovers) Then lets hope Foster and A.J. can make some big plays to give us a shot at pulling out some wins. I just don't see Fitzpatrick/Yates/Keenum/rookie QB(s?) carrying this team to many wins. It's gonna have to be the 2005 Steelers/2013 Seahawks model if we're to contend in a serious fashion this year.
 
Mallett seems like a nightmare for anything more than pick 4-1. Depth of this draft is too deep to trade for a guy you can have without a trade next offseason.
 
infantrycak said:
If anything Wilson has been asked to do more and done it as well or better. Not sure why he gets downplayed so much.
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I think he gets downplayed, because in all honesty, how many games does he win on his own? Everyone on here criticized Schaub because he couldn't win games on his own, but can Wilson? IMO, I don't know, I just know he really hasn't have to.

Look at their performance in the playoffs this past season. They held the high-powered Saints offense scoreless for the first 3 quarters! They force 3 turnovers against the ball-controlled 49ers. And we all know what they did to the all-mighty Peyton Manning.

Tom Brady & the Pats put up 40 points (twice) against the Texans and all fans say is "Schaub can't put the team on his shoulders". The Seahawks gave up more than 24 points only ONCE this past season, and they lost that game against the Colts. Just for comparison, the Texans gave up more than 24 points 7 times in 2012.
 
infantrycak said:
In 2 seasons Wilson has 8 4th qtr comebacks and 10 game winning drives.

In 2 seasons Luck has 8 4th qtr comebacks and 11 game winning drives.
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Overall, the Seahawks are a much better team than the Colts. Not downplaying his accomplishments, but it doesn't feel like he's asked to do as much as Luck.
 
dream_team said:
I think he gets downplayed, because in all honesty, how many games does he win on his own? Everyone on here criticized Schaub because he couldn't win games on his own, but can Wilson? IMO, I don't know, I just know he really hasn't have to.
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First, no QB actually wins games "on his own". I figure you know this but I just had to type it.

Second, no Texans' fan should question Wilson's ability to affect the outcome of a game after he brought the Seahawks back from being down 20 - 6 against the Texans last season. LINK

Then again, you might not want to dredge up this ugly memory.
 
infantrycak said:
In 2 seasons Wilson has 8 4th qtr comebacks and 10 game winning drives.

In 2 seasons Luck has 8 4th qtr comebacks and 11 game winning drives.
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Valid argument. He is clutch, I'll give you that.

But lets ask this. If his defense was "average", how good would the Seahawks be and how much would people be really talking about Russell Wilson? Last season, the Seahawks gave up 14.4 points/game. The NFL average is 23.4 points/game.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that he's not good or overrated. I'm simply stating why his performance has be "downgraded" by some. He really isn't being asked to do too much. He's even being asked to do alot less than Schaub has ever been asked to do as a Texan.
 
dream_team said:
Valid argument. He is clutch, I'll give you that.

But lets ask this. If his defense was "average", how good would the Seahawks be and how much would people be really talking about Russell Wilson? Last season, the Seahawks gave up 14.4 points/game. The NFL average is 23.4 points/game.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that he's not good or overrated. I'm simply stating why his performance has be "downgraded" by some. He really isn't being asked to do too much. He's even being asked to do alot less than Schaub has ever been asked to do as a Texan.
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That Broken Version Of Schaub led Texans team had Wilson's SeaDucks on the ropes .... until his defense bailed him out.
 
ObsiWan said:
Second, no Texans' fan should question Wilson's ability to affect the outcome of a game after he brought the Seahawks back from being down 20 - 6 against the Texans last season. LINK

Then again, you might not want to dredge up this ugly memory.
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Good example! So who's more responsible for this victory?

Wilson's play in the 2nd half? Or the defense's play in the 2nd half? I think majority would argue the defense. Yes, Wilson had a good 2nd half and helped contribute to the comeback, but he got ALOT of help from the D.
 
dream_team said:
Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that he's not good or overrated. I'm simply stating why his performance has be "downgraded" by some. He really isn't being asked to do too much. He's even being asked to do alot less than Schaub has ever been asked to do as a Texan.
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He's been asked to do enough that he has accounted for 54 passing TDs and another 6 on the ground.

I hear what you are saying as to why it is being done. I phrased things poorly in asking the original question. Personally I'm not going to downgrade him just for being on a good team and IMO he is contributing plenty.
 
infantrycak said:
He's been asked to do enough that he has accounted for 54 passing TDs and another 6 on the ground.

I hear what you are saying as to why it is being done. I phrased things poorly in asking the original question. Personally I'm not going to downgrade him just for being on a good team and IMO he is contributing plenty.
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Fair enough. I like Wilson and I see the talent, but I'd like to see what he can do if he was asked to score 20+ points/game.
 
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Nitrofish said:
Re watch the game and you will see the D sugar rushing Wilson. Maintaining their lanes and not really trying to sack him, just keep him in the pocket. In the 2nd half the were full out rushing leaving all kinds of lanes for him to run through. He was only taking what they were giving him, which was wide open running lanes unlike in the first half.

Protecting the ball, and not turning it over is what he does best, but that is not an elite QB by any stretch in my eyes. Perhaps he will become that in the future, but as of now, at least in my eyes, he is nothing more than a middle of the road QB who minimizes mistakes.

I still think the Mallett trade is a possibility, but if O'Brien gives up a 2:1 for him, I am going to be very disappointed. Unless Mallett comes in and just kills it, which is possible, but IMO unlikely.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't protecting the ball and not turning it over be a prerequisite of an elite QB not named Brett Favre? It's extremely difficult to win if your QB doesn't do that. I'm not saying Wilson is elite, but I'd say he's top 10 in the league right now.

Corrosion said:
When you have a defense as good as theirs , that's all you ask of your QB , don't screw it up. I do somewhat agree with your eye test .... but think you may be selling him short as he can make a defense pay with either throwing or running.



I doubt a trade for Mallett is in the works & would be highly disappointed giving up #33 for him much less #33 and anything else. Yes , he has a big arm .... but that's not even a requirement for success , show me the ability to read a defense , slide in the pocket and make throws down the seams and to the deep outs.

Also concerning Mallett , I hesitate to trade premium draft picks for a guy who will be playing the final year of his rookie deal & then have to pony up standard QB money for after that year.
I much prefer to draft a guy & have him for multiple years on his rookie deal allowing you to spend those funds elsewhere then make adjustments once he comes off that rookie deal.
Click to expand...
Great post. Agree 100%
thunderkyss said:
Yeah, we've seen QBs who make minimal mistakes & benefit from suffocating defenses. Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, even Joe Flacco (not the Super Bowl, that was on Flacco).

Then we've seen young play making game managers make the most of their awesome defenses. Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger.....

Wilson is a lot closer to the Brady/Roethlisberger model than he is to the Dilfer/Johnson model.
Click to expand...
Good post. We've also seen some of the best QB's to ever play the game win 0 or 1 Super Bowl. Think Dan Marino, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Fran Tarkington, Dan Pastorini (I kid, I kid), etc...MSR
 
I'm actually kind of interested to see how the 3 QB's on our roster do in BOB's system. I don't think Fitz has played on a team as talented as the Texans (flame suit on) and think Yates and Keenum both looked very good last preseason. I also don't think either one got a fair shake during the season after Schaub's historic meltdown.

It'll be very interesting to see what shakes out from BOB's time with the QB's before the draft.
 
DocBar said:
I'm actually kind of interested to see how the 3 QB's on our roster do in BOB's system. I don't think Fitz has played on a team as talented as the Texans (flame suit on) and think Yates and Keenum both looked very good last preseason. I also don't think either one got a fair shake during the season after Schaub's historic meltdown.

It'll be very interesting to see what shakes out from BOB's time with the QB's before the draft.
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Wouldn't this be a shock, if OB decided he had enough to work with in Fitz, TJ, and Case that they didn't draft ANY QBs this year?
 
DocBar said:
Wouldn't protecting the ball and not turning it over be a prerequisite of an elite QB not named Brett Favre? It's extremely difficult to win if your QB doesn't do that. I'm not saying Wilson is elite, but I'd say he's top 10 in the league right now.
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Well sure protecting the ball would be a prerequisite of an elite QB, but how many QB's in the league are capable of doing that? Not many, even so called Elite players like one named Eli. As I said, I am not saying Wilson is a bad QB, I am just saying he is overrated and has not done much to impress me, and my standards are low remember? I support Schaub. Perhaps as the years go by I will be more impressed, but let's be honest, it's been a few years. With the ebb and flow of the NFL, he could fall off a cliff this season.

DocBar said:
I'm actually kind of interested to see how the 3 QB's on our roster do in BOB's system. I don't think Fitz has played on a team as talented as the Texans (flame suit on) and think Yates and Keenum both looked very good last preseason. I also don't think either one got a fair shake during the season after Schaub's historic meltdown.

It'll be very interesting to see what shakes out from BOB's time with the QB's before the draft.
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While I agree Yates did not get a fair shake last season, Keenum got more than a fair shake. How many other QB's have gotten a chance to come in as a UDFA and start 6 games in the NFL? You didn't afford any excuses for Schaub's play when the team was collapsing around him, don't make excuses for Keenum regardless of the circumstances. Keenum had a great opportunity to prove himself. He failed. Having said that, I would rather see him start than Fitzpatrick!

The Pencil Neck said:
Wouldn't this be a shock, if OB decided he had enough to work with in Fitz, TJ, and Case that they didn't draft ANY QBs this year?
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It would be a shock, especially since he has already said there was no question the Texans were going to select a QB this year, but just was not sure what round. If O'Brien determines that from the QB's he has on his roster now, he should be fired immediately!

Texan_Bill said:
AJ at QB, JJ Watt at tight end and "Johnny Football" at WR!!

......... Championship!!!
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LOL
 
Nitrofish said:
It would be a shock, especially since he has already said there was no question the Texans were going to select a QB this year, but just was not sure what round. If O'Brien determines that from the QB's he has on his roster now, he should be fired immediately!
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Actually, he said he might take two...Here's the PFT link.

But that could just be a smokescreen and jedi-mind-tricks!

Seriously, though. I expect him to draft at least one. But if he chooses not to pick now, I'm fine with that, too. I'd rather he draft good players than to draft a QB he doesn't think will be any good. Sometimes it's better to just move on rather than to force things.

This just might not be the year we can solve the QB position. If it isn't, I hope next year is.
 
Nitrofish said:
As I said, I am not saying Wilson is a bad QB, I am just saying he is overrated and has not done much to impress me, and my standards are low remember? I support Schaub. Perhaps as the years go by I will be more impressed, but let's be honest, it's been a few years. With the ebb and flow of the NFL, he could fall off a cliff this season.
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Not sure how he can be overrated when most people are dismissing him as you do.

FYI - Schaub never in his career put up 54 TDs in 2 seasons. His best 2 season stretch of his career he hit 53 TDs and that was with 357 more passing attempts (about 45% more). Your standards aren't consistent.
 
infantrycak said:
Not sure how he can be overrated when most people are dismissing him as you do.

FYI - Schaub never in his career put up 54 TDs in 2 seasons. His best 2 season stretch of his career he hit 53 TDs and that was with 357 more passing attempts (about 45% more). Your standards aren't consistent.
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And Schaub's best two years overall ratings by PFF were a very good 7th overall in both 2009/2010,

Wilson's only two years overall ratings have been 5th in his rookie year and 4th in 2013. He might get better.
 
Playoffs said:
Wilson's only two years overall ratings have been 5th in his rookie year and 4th in 2013. He might get better.
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To put a little more fine point on it - the only QBs who beat him both years were Peyton and Rodgers. That is some pretty damn rarified air he is in.

And I'm sorry, but this "he isn't called upon to do much" or "it's the system" stuff simply doesn't explain away that away. That kind of thing gets a QB by it doesn't get him that far up the ladder.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Wouldn't this be a shock, if OB decided he had enough to work with in Fitz, TJ, and Case that they didn't draft ANY QBs this year?
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all the Texans need is a little magic in Reliant....

037f97cb-e97a-44b8-ae5b-1984ba898c51_zps6738f0e8.jpg


FitzMagic!


Still think Bortles will be #1 overall...My soul just died a little by typing that...
 
infantrycak said:
And I'm sorry, but this "he isn't called upon to do much" or "it's the system" stuff simply doesn't explain away that away. That kind of thing gets a QB by it doesn't get him that far up the ladder.
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He's on a good team. He's a top QB. Not mutually exclusive.

Give him an elite WR/TE and see what he does.
 
dream_team said:
Fair enough. I like Wilson and I see the talent, but I'd like to see what he can do if he was asked to score 20+ points/game.
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What?! 20+ pts/game?!?
That's three TDs every game. By himself! I mean 16 games x 3 TDs = 48 for the year. Only three guys in the history of the NFL have done that, Peyton (twice), Brady, and Marino. You're asking a helluva lot.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Actually, he said he might take two...Here's the PFT link.

But that could just be a smokescreen and jedi-mind-tricks!

Seriously, though. I expect him to draft at least one. But if he chooses not to pick now, I'm fine with that, too. I'd rather he draft good players than to draft a QB he doesn't think will be any good. Sometimes it's better to just move on rather than to force things.

This just might not be the year we can solve the QB position. If it isn't, I hope next year is.
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If a 2nd QB is taken, I could see it being Logan Thomas. I know there are several folks on here that think he'll be moved to TE, but I can't help thinking that OB might feel he can make something of him. I also believe that OB might see some Ryan Mallett in him & I remember reading somewhere that OB had some influence in NE drafting him. They are both 6'6" 245lbs with strong arms & need help with their games & Thomas has very good straight line speed as well.

I'll even go further out on this limb & proclaim that the Texans will draft Brett Smith in the 2nd or 3rd round. :shades:
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Wouldn't this be a shock, if OB decided he had enough to work with in Fitz, TJ, and Case that they didn't draft ANY QBs this year?
Click to expand...

infantrycak said:
I'd applaud if they decided this was one of the occasional 0 decent QB classes like 2002, 2006, 2007 and held off rather than waste a pick.
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As would I.
The Pencil Neck said:
That would take some cast-iron cojones.
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Unfortunately, he's gone on record as saying "Yes, we will be drafting a
QB." But he didn't say what round.
 
Nitrofish said:
Yeah, I said anyone can be wrong, but I would say he has not missed on Wilson. What has Wilson done that is so spectacular? His success is more related to the running game and elite defense that Seattle has, not that he is a spectacular pocket passer. Look at what Houston was doing to him in the first half of that game. Only when they stopped the tactics that worked in the first half did his legs become a factor. Wilson is a bad example.

You can't honestly be saying you are comparing Ryan Fitzpatrick to Matt Schaub right? I understand you hate the guy, but lets be serious here. Fitzpatrick could not hold Schaub's jock. You want to talk "Factory of Sadness" just wait until Fitz is starting for the Texans.

I'd rather see Keenum or Yates start over Fitz, and that is saying something.
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Ryan Fitzpatrick beat Matt Schaub in the last game of the season. Just saying.
 
infantrycak said:
I'd applaud if they decided this was one of the occasional 0 decent QB classes like 2002, 2006, 2007 and held off rather than waste a pick.
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Or they believe they can do just as well with the QBs they have, not that they don't believe the QBs in this draft aren't "decent."

Let's say the best QB in this draft turns out to be Derek Carr. He goes on to have a season like Staffords, or Bradford (hmmm... ~ford), I'd have no issue with that if Case or Tj turns out to be just as "alright"

Like we gave up two 2s for Schaub.... well I'm glad we did that, instead of spending a 1st on Brady Quin, Kevin Kolb, or John Beck.
 
Nitrofish said:
While I agree Yates did not get a fair shake last season, Keenum got more than a fair shake. How many other QB's have gotten a chance to come in as a UDFA and start 6 games in the NFL? You didn't afford any excuses for Schaub's play when the team was collapsing around him, don't make excuses for Keenum regardless of the circumstances. Keenum had a great opportunity to prove himself. He failed. Having said that, I would rather see him start than Fitzpatrick!

LOL
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I don't think Keenum got a fair shake because Kubiak, for some unknown reason, abandoned the kind of offensive play calling that Keenum was thriving in after 2 games. Kubiak just couldn't get away from his normal playcalling strategies that were very well figured out.

Keenum flashed some ability, but not as a pocket passer or traditional QB. Kind of like Wilson, or the college Manziel ( no idea if his game translates to the NFL, but my gut says no.) but with less talent.
 
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