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So..OB is the new official GM..

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Listening to John Harris on 610 yesterday, he mentioned Fells pass blocking specifically as being very good. That’s probably where his blocking reputation comes from. I wasn’t terribly impressed with his run blocking last season
just makes me wonder .. you already have TWO 3rd round TEs on the roster, one whom coach highly touted as a "great blocker" (Akins) another who was SUPPOSED to be this kid brimming with pass catching talent? (Warring) and yet you go and tie up money with ANOTHER TE (i like Fells, its "only" 3.5M per but cmon man) .. its a weird fetish with OBrien and TEs looking for another Gronk. Yet he hardly incorporates the position in the passing game?? So hard to follow along with this line of thinking. How about they develop the guys whom they have drafted, and apply the resources to resigning your stud players and not paying your marginal guys top 5 positional money or just throwing money at depth players where the position is already adequately staffed - the thinking that Brandon Dunn will be a stop gap replacement or that you'll find another Reader in the later round screams of arrogance with no history of being able to do just that! Remember DJ Reader was ANOTHER Rick Smith pick - GASP!! This team was HORRIBLE against the run, atrocious even. Take away a top 3 run defender from that squad and see what happens. Old School Football - you want to be stout against the run?? Be sure you are strong at the NT, MLB, and S positions. (especially in RACs defensive alignments where the NT is in charge of 2 gaps - finding guys big and athletic enough to do that isnt as easy as being postulated.)

If the powers that be are ready to say "we whiffed on our TE selections" that would be a step forward, but they arent ready to say that either. Im not against Fells getting the contract, Im against that contract and the Fairbairn deal, and they deals for Martin and Mercilus if they ultimately mean that a true All Pro type player like DJ will not be retained and at the end of the day the TE position is STILL not that great at blocking. Bizarro World.
 
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otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
just makes me wonder .. you already have TWO 3rd round TEs on the roster, one whom coach highly touted as a "great blocker" (Akins) another who was SUPPOSED to be this kid brimming with pass catching talent? (Warring) and yet you go and tie up money with ANOTHER TE (i like Fells, its "only" 3.5M per but cmon man) .. its a weird fetish with OBrien and TEs looking for another Gronk. Yet he hardly incorporates the position in the passing game?? So hard to follow along with this line of thinking. How about they develop the guys whom they have drafted, and apply the resources to resigning your stud players and not paying your marginal guys top 5 positional money or just throwing money at depth players where the position is already adequately staffed - the thinking that Brandon Dunn will be a stop gap replacement or that you'll find another Reader in the later round screams of arrogance with no history of being able to do just that! Remember DJ Reader was ANOTHER Rick Smith pick - GASP!! This team was HORRIBLE against the run, atrocious even. Take away a top 3 run defender from that squad and see what happens. Old School Football - you want to be stout against the run?? Be sure you are strong at the NT, MLB, and S positions. (especially in RACs defensive alignments where the NT is in charge of 2 gaps - finding guys big and athletic enough to do that isnt as easy as being postulated.)

If the powers that be are ready to say "we whiffed on our TE selections" that would be a step forward, but they arent ready to say that either. Im not against Fells getting the contract, Im against that contract and the Fairbairn deal, and they deals for Martin and Mercilus if they ultimately mean that a true All Pro type player like DJ will not be retained and at the end of the day the TE position is STILL not that great at blocking. Bizarro World.
I’m not sure Akins was ever touted as a great blocker. LZ on nfl.com listed him as a flawed blocker


In fact I wouldn’t be surprised to see Akins released. I think Thomas has more upside and Warring has loads of potential but until he gets on the field he’s an unknown. Personally, I don’t think retaining Fells has any impact on Reader. I think the market may price Reader out of our reach. I love the guy but when you hit a certain price range you need to offer more pass rush potential IMO. We desperately need an inside pass rush. Too often QBs were able to step up into the pocket to avoid the outside guys. Additionally, I think the need at CB could also force us to let Reader go. CB is such a massive need for us, and good ones don’t come cheap
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
There were many happy when Rankin was selected... not Kdog
That's false. I went back and didn't find any negative posts about it.

I did have a problem with obrien shuffling all over the place, then doghousing him then trading him for a mediocre rental rb
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I’m not sure Akins was ever touted as a great blocker. LZ on nfl.com listed him as a flawed blocker


In fact I wouldn’t be surprised to see Akins released. I think Thomas has more upside and Warring has loads of potential but until he gets on the field he’s an unknown. Personally, I don’t think retaining Fells has any impact on Reader. I think the market may price Reader out of our reach. I love the guy but when you hit a certain price range you need to offer more pass rush potential IMO. We desperately need an inside pass rush. Too often QBs were able to step up into the pocket to avoid the outside guys. Additionally, I think the need at CB could also force us to let Reader go. CB is such a massive need for us, and good ones don’t come cheap
therein may lie the problems. Some personnel guys see things clearly and the in-house specialists are not qualified or experienced enough for the task. This is what OBrien himself had to say about Akins:


“Jordan is a very mature guy who works very hard to get better,” Texans coach Bill O’Brien told reporters Monday at NRG Stadium. “He’s done a really good job for us in our blocking schemes, the way we use him in our blocking schemes, and he’s become a better route runner every week. He really works hard on running routes.”
now I get the whole "coachspeak" aspect of it, but OBriens "gut instinct" on Akins came from his Senior Bowl experience with him!!


so if you what you say if accurate regarding Akins deficiencies spotted prior to being drafted it makes you wonder what the think tank on Kirby is doing at the position.

DJ Reader at 11-13M provides you more than Mercilus at the same price point. Having the "ability" to rush the passer doesnt correlate with the overall talent to play the game. DJ was graded some 20 points higher than Mercilus for example. Mercilus started off fast last year in sacks and then what happened? OLines caught up. They havent caught up to DJ yet.

Fells deal all by itself doesnt affect the DJ situation singularly, but as I stated you add up all the head scratchers that are being given out and with some better cap management you could at least retain the GREAT players while releasing the marginal guys or restocking those with the draft. Hurts to keep developing all pro level talent only to let it walk and having to start over again convincing ourselves that dollar general type players will get the job done.

Lucky for us CB is one of, if not, the deepest position classes in the 2020 draft so you would think you could get value there without breaking the bank if the draft is managed appropriately.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I’m not sure Akins was ever touted as a great blocker. LZ on nfl.com listed him as a flawed blocker


In fact I wouldn’t be surprised to see Akins released. I think Thomas has more upside and Warring has loads of potential but until he gets on the field he’s an unknown. Personally, I don’t think retaining Fells has any impact on Reader. I think the market may price Reader out of our reach. I love the guy but when you hit a certain price range you need to offer more pass rush potential IMO. We desperately need an inside pass rush. Too often QBs were able to step up into the pocket to avoid the outside guys. Additionally, I think the need at CB could also force us to let Reader go. CB is such a massive need for us, and good ones don’t come cheap
I hope they re-sign Roby and sign Harris to cover the slot.

A DB room of Roby/Harris/Conley/LJo and a draft pick would be much improved.

If you let Reader walk and draft a NT to pair with Dunn that position would be covered pretty well. Maybe even bring in a FA on a 1 yr deal.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
therein may lie the problems. Some personnel guys see things clearly and the in-house specialists are not qualified or experienced enough for the task. This is what OBrien himself had to say about Akins:




now I get the whole "coachspeak" aspect of it, but OBriens "gut instinct" on Akins came from his Senior Bowl experience with him!!


so if you what you say if accurate regarding Akins deficiencies spotted prior to being drafted it makes you wonder what the think tank on Kirby is doing at the position.

DJ Reader at 11-13M provides you more than Mercilus at the same price point. Having the "ability" to rush the passer doesnt correlate with the overall talent to play the game. DJ was graded some 20 points higher than Mercilus for example. Mercilus started off fast last year in sacks and then what happened? OLines caught up. They havent caught up to DJ yet.

Fells deal all by itself doesnt affect the DJ situation singularly, but as I stated you add up all the head scratchers that are being given out and with some better cap management you could at least retain the GREAT players while releasing the marginal guys or restocking those with the draft. Hurts to keep developing all pro level talent only to let it walk and having to start over again convincing ourselves that dollar general type players will get the job done.

Lucky for us CB is one of, if not, the deepest position classes in the 2020 draft so you would think you could get value there without breaking the bank if the draft is managed appropriately.
I actually agree with this post.

O would have let Mercilus walk and kept Reader. I didn't care for the Martin signing either. But I understand why it was done. Luckily they can get out of that deal after this season of they want too.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I hope they re-sign Roby and sign Harris to cover the slot.

A DB room of Roby/Harris/Conley/LJo and a draft pick would be much improved.

If you let Reader walk and draft a NT to pair with Dunn that position would be covered pretty well. Maybe even bring in a FA on a 1 yr deal.
If that's the best case scenario the defense is definitely gonna suck
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
On our team he's easily second string. And Hyde was a rental who can't pass catch. 1000 Yard back these days is nothing to go crazy about especially for 1 year
He couldn't beat out Davenport, Clark, Giacomini, Mancz, mush less Sharping, Howard or Roderick Johnson. He was gonna be cut if not traded. You're putting your hate above your common sense
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
He couldn't beat out Davenport, Clark, Giacomini, Mancz, mush less Sharping, Howard or Roderick Johnson. He was gonna be cut if not traded. You're putting your hate above your common sense
He was an injured rookie getting shuffled around by an idiot coach. He gets a real coach and suddenly is a quality depth player?

Yes I know obrien preferred giacomini and rod Roderick. That shows what a pathetic coach he is
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
And somehow starting for a super bowl team now?
Lol, pull up that PFF grade tho....

He was starting due to injury....Chiefs also went 2-4 in the games he started too. Not saying he was the primary reason for that......but it is curious that It was basically right after they got him and a few others out of the lineup that they began to turn the corner....:thinking:
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Lol, pull up that PFF grade tho....

He was starting due to injury....Chiefs also went 2-4 in the games he started too. Not saying he was the primary reason for that......but it is curious that It was basically right after they got him and a few others out of the lineup that they began to turn the corner....:thinking:
Not much lower than Scharping and Howard.

Now he's on a rookie deal for them and Hyde, who isn't even good, is gone
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If that's the best case scenario the defense is definitely gonna suck
Put Gladney in that CB room and we'll talk.

Add Chinn/Dugger to play nickel LB and give them a yr to learn and they will be special. You already know my thoughts on Dugger. They're rare athletes.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
therein may lie the problems. Some personnel guys see things clearly and the in-house specialists are not qualified or experienced enough for the task. This is what OBrien himself had to say about Akins:




now I get the whole "coachspeak" aspect of it, but OBriens "gut instinct" on Akins came from his Senior Bowl experience with him!!


so if you what you say if accurate regarding Akins deficiencies spotted prior to being drafted it makes you wonder what the think tank on Kirby is doing at the position.

DJ Reader at 11-13M provides you more than Mercilus at the same price point. Having the "ability" to rush the passer doesnt correlate with the overall talent to play the game. DJ was graded some 20 points higher than Mercilus for example. Mercilus started off fast last year in sacks and then what happened? OLines caught up. They havent caught up to DJ yet.

Fells deal all by itself doesnt affect the DJ situation singularly, but as I stated you add up all the head scratchers that are being given out and with some better cap management you could at least retain the GREAT players while releasing the marginal guys or restocking those with the draft. Hurts to keep developing all pro level talent only to let it walk and having to start over again convincing ourselves that dollar general type players will get the job done.

Lucky for us CB is one of, if not, the deepest position classes in the 2020 draft so you would think you could get value there without breaking the bank if the draft is managed appropriately.

Ya, they definitely have done some things that will make you scratch your head. I thought Merciles and Martin were overpays. I will say when Merciles signed the contract Seth Payne was saying that some of the things that Merciles does that helps the defense doesn't always show up on the stat sheet. I do agree that Reader is the better player and should be ascending. I'd love to keep the guy, BUT we do have a massive need at CB. And, you are right, the draft is loaded, but we draft at the bottom third of the second round and if there was a run on CBs we could be left out in the cold. We HAVE to upgrade the secondary. The draft also seems to have good depth on the DL as well. We could sign a CB then draft a Reader replacement. If Im not mistaken, CB is a position that generally requires a year or 2 of development. It might be better to sign a starter in FA and pick up a DL in the draft. This past season we had Reader playing at a very high level, and our defense still wasn't great. We couldn't stop the pass to save our life. I believe a high level CB would be more beneficial. If we have a guy that can lock one side of the field down you can do more in terms of blitzing ect..

When I mentioned pass rushing ability, I wasn't insinuating that it was the end all be all, BUT IMO when you hit a certain price point per year in salary on the DL I think the ability to rush the passer is important. Reader is a stud run defender no doubt, but I would call his pass rush ability serviceable. Over the cap has his projected salary at 13.5m per year. At that dollar amount, to me, I'd want a guy that gives more in the pass rush department.

With regard to Akins, I don't know what to say. I know that TE is supposed to be a tough position to pick up as a younger player. Maybe they thought he would develop more or faster than he has. At this point, I think he might end up being the odd man out with the team retaining Fells, Thomas and Warring
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Ya, they definitely have done some things that will make you scratch your head. I thought Merciles and Martin were overpays. I will say when Merciles signed the contract Seth Payne was saying that some of the things that Merciles does that helps the defense doesn't always show up on the stat sheet. I do agree that Reader is the better player and should be ascending. I'd love to keep the guy, BUT we do have a massive need at CB. And, you are right, the draft is loaded, but we draft at the bottom third of the second round and if there was a run on CBs we could be left out in the cold. We HAVE to upgrade the secondary. The draft also seems to have good depth on the DL as well. We could sign a CB then draft a Reader replacement. If Im not mistaken, CB is a position that generally requires a year or 2 of development. It might be better to sign a starter in FA and pick up a DL in the draft. This past season we had Reader playing at a very high level, and our defense still wasn't great. We couldn't stop the pass to save our life. I believe a high level CB would be more beneficial. If we have a guy that can lock one side of the field down you can do more in terms of blitzing ect..

When I mentioned pass rushing ability, I wasn't insinuating that it was the end all be all, BUT IMO when you hit a certain price point per year in salary on the DL I think the ability to rush the passer is important. Reader is a stud run defender no doubt, but I would call his pass rush ability serviceable. Over the cap has his projected salary at 13.5m per year. At that dollar amount, to me, I'd want a guy that gives more in the pass rush department.

With regard to Akins, I don't know what to say. I know that TE is supposed to be a tough position to pick up as a younger player. Maybe they thought he would develop more or faster than he has. At this point, I think he might end up being the odd man out with the team retaining Fells, Thomas and Warring
yea man I get it .. you cant keep them all. I think with DJ there is wiggle room if he wants to be here. He's a better pass rusher from the inside than people give him credit for. Sacks are sexy they POP on the stat sheet, but there are other indicators. While I always suspect players on contract years with DJ you can look back at the last few years and notice the uphill trajectory in game play. This isn't an outlier. This year he had a 72.5 pass rushing grade/35 pressures/10.7% pressure rate. Add in that run defense of 85.1 and you have a complete, ELITE interior NFL defender. At the very least franchise him for a year, lets learn from the JD Clowney fiasco. Its okay to disagree among the GM/Player, but lets not cut off our nose to spite our face again. No need to rush into a bad move. we could use him for one more year while the defense around him fills out. Hit him with the transition tag at 12.3M for the year - Fair number and see what he does, he might make some people change their minds in a year. I think he's that good honestly and we are undervaluing him here thinking its easy to find a guy who is 350lbs and can move like he does.

There are enough holes on the defense where if there would be a rush on CBs that you could easily justify taking an edge guy in the 2nd and beyond. I'm fairly certain you can find a talented CB in this years draft though. I'm giving this current regime some slack because shooting fish in a barrel cant be that hard right? I dang sure wouldn't tie up a big contract on Roby. You could replace him easily with another journeyman CB (trumaine johnson, trae wayne for example) he really didn't do anything IMO to justify a long term deal.

I guess the law of averages is going to apply to the TE position I'll be curious to see who sticks. I mean you cant give up on Warring after one year, so that kind of starts culling the herd right there. I would say Jordan Thomas would be the odd guy out just to save face even if he might be slightly better than Akins. Fells/Akins/Warring would be my guess for next year if they can avoid their impulses on draft day.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Not much lower than Scharping and Howard.

Now he's on a rookie deal for them and Hyde, who isn't even good, is gone
Marginalize it all you want but the hard truth is both of those rooks graded out better than him as a 2nd year guy..thats not a good look for him period.

& as an FYI, Scharping and Howard are also on their rookie deals. Meanwhile Rankin may not even make the Chiefs' roster next year.

Hyde didn't have to be good....but he still a had a career year here which is why he was offered what he was.
 


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