I disagree. There were a lot of times the Titans were successful rushing just 4 and Carr looked like a sitting duck in there. On the other hand, Sage had the pocket presence to move a bit and buy himself a second or two. That is the glaring difference between Carr and Sage. A step here, a step there, that's all the difference in the world. With Sage, you at least get a couple more options. Carr always looks like a sitting duck in the pocket and you just have to pray that he can find someone or get the ball out of his hands before the sack comes. Very Bledsoe-like...
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So it was all Carr's fault?
- Thread starter TheRealJoker
- Start date
I disagree. There were a lot of times the Titans were successful rushing just 4 and Carr looked like a sitting duck in there. On the other hand, Sage had the pocket presence to move a bit and buy himself a second or two. That is the glaring difference between Carr and Sage. A step here, a step there, that's all the difference in the world. With Sage, you at least get a couple more options. Carr always looks like a sitting duck in the pocket and you just have to pray that he can find someone or get the ball out of his hands before the sack comes. Very Bledsoe-like...
K
kingh99
Guest
That's right. Everyone blitzes him. Why? Because it means he'll settle for 3 yard gains ad inifinitum. As we learned in the years of Run and Shoot, run enough offensive plays to get down the field and something bad will eventually happen.
The only teams that don't blitz are the ones like the Cowboys, because they figured it was time to take advantage of our inflexibility. David Carr is the drill sargeant played by David Schwimmer in Band of Brothers. He's got all the intagibles in practice. He's an inspiration in practice. He's tough as nails in practice. Hell, he will run up do or die hill backwards if that is what it would take to get the guys practicing harder. When the bullets start flying, he's liable to lock up and fall into obvious traps.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Let's let a little reality back into the picture here. I know that is difficult but give it a try.
Carr interception--result punt--no points
Carr fumble #1--result TD run back--7 points for TN
Carr fumble #2--result punt--no points
Sage interception (which was more on AJ)--result TD--7 points for TN
Carr was horrible with protecting the ball but it is completely revisionist to try to attribute the "majority of their points" to him.
Tale Gator
________
This loss rest solely on Carr's shoulders - this is why he was benched. Sage did his best to rally the Texans, but Kubiak waited to long to get Carr out of the game.
michaelm
vox nihili
PS: I hope Jeff Fisher can sleep tonight knowing he played a scumbag wankster that spits on women just to beat us
I've been thinking about this, and I feel sorry for Jeff Fisher. You know he had his integrity undermined by Bud, and was forced to put off disciplining Pacman until AFTER this game specifically.
I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that Fisher was told that Jones would play the Texans.
IMO, Jeff Fisher will not be the coach of the tacks long, and I'm happy for him.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
So 7 of 28 points rest solely on Carr's shoulders so the whole loss does. Truly absurd. Like team wins, this was a team loss. Morlon Greenwood completely blew his assignment giving VY a running TD. Carr coughed a TD fumble. AJ muffed an INT for a TD. Special teams looked special only in that they got off a short yellow bus to give up a TD. Any of those 4 events don't happen and the Texans win. Team loss.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Since I am in a Slim Pickin' mood, Carr's interception into quadruple secret coverage could be construed as a -3 or -7 point swing since we had the ball at the 24 yard line. There is no excuse for that throw.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
There was no excuse for that throw but it is factually incorrect to attribute most or more than 25% of the Titans points to Carr's turnovers. They were horrible but they resulted in the same 7 points that Sage/AJ's turnover resulted in. Worse play, same result--that was the solitary point.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Right - what are the odds we score from the 24? It would have been a long field goal after the requisite sack and/or false start.
michaelm
vox nihili
I agree with the sentiment, and in a perfect world, this would be feasible.
Unfortunately, on this team, the options are few to none...
There are still a couple of things we could do. Sit Weigert and start Winston; even if Winston isn't as good, how much worse could he be? Zach was getting Carr killed anyway.
How about cutting Bedell who doesn't dress anyway (not the message part), bringing in a legititmate tackle and bench Salaam (the message part) until he can remember not to leave before the snap. His false starts were drive killing mental errors. He'd also have time to reflect on his poor pass blocking.
It's too bad the coaches have built a roster that does not allow the benching of at least one of the two non-performing tackles. That is bad roster management.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I'm not sure if its all Carr's fault but he sure set the bar low from the beginning . Its unfortunate but the team follows their QB and after the interception they stunk until Sage took over .
I wonder what goes on now in the lockerroom now ... Carr could have put the VY stuff to rest . Instead he just tossed himself , Mario , McNair , and Kubiak in the grease .
A dog will hunt or he won't . Our dog stays on the porch at the worst times .
I wonder what goes on now in the lockerroom now ... Carr could have put the VY stuff to rest . Instead he just tossed himself , Mario , McNair , and Kubiak in the grease .
A dog will hunt or he won't . Our dog stays on the porch at the worst times .
2ToneBlue
Waterboy
People are throwing D. Carr under the bus so quickly. He's started off the season well, has one bad game and now everyone is bringout the torches and pitch forks. Granted he should hold onto the ball, but he didn't fumble a snap, they were a 275+lb lineman running into him.
The INT was his fault completely, mental break down.
The INT was his fault completely, mental break down.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Sure you could continue to play muscial chairs with the OLine or see what a new signal caller will do for the line. I hope he chooses neither against the Giants.
Continue to play musical chairs or just let horrendous play go without repercussion?
I don't think changes will makes us any worse. Accepting bad play because it's easy has led to complacency in some entrenched starters (IMO).
I can hear the Kubiak pep talk now: Go out and take it to the Giants, Dave. And don't worry, Ephraim's got your back*.
*I shouldn't pick on Ephraim. Zach's man will probably hit Dave and numb him a split second before Ephraim's gets there. Dave probably won't even feel that second hit as the ball flies out of his near lifeless fingers.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Change the Oline for Carr does nothing but stall for more time for Carr. Putting Sage in does a disservice as well for the "potential" of Carr to come to fruition being on the hot seat. The time is now for Carr to do what Sage did or for his team mates to step up for their maligned face of the franchise and win one for their leader.
R
real
Guest
ehhh...I think the problem with this "one" bad game, is that David hasn't really wowed us this year...He pretty much has failed to live up to being the #1 pick...I don't think it would be as bad had David been a second or third rounder...He hasn't lived up to what he was billed as, and games like this only make matters worse...
michaelm
vox nihili
Notably absent is any reference to Seth Wand. I'm not sure how I feel on the subject but, in addition to the options you list, he is another.
Unless I missed him signing somewhere...
eriadoc
Texan-American
Agreed. I am just sick to death with the damn o-line being an issue every year. Can we please just build the offensive line (particularly tackle) in the next couple drafts? Everyone wanted Bush or VY this past draft and I was pleading for Ferguson. We got Mario, which at least helps in the trenches, so that's good, but I find myself wanting Ferguson still, even over Spencer.
/rant off
R
real
Guest
I see where we aren't communicating. I didn't say the bolded part and didn't mean to imply it.
Who plays on the o-line and who plays QB are independant decisions for me at this point. Carr is who he is and the line is who they are. Carr isn't an excuse for the line, the line isn't an excuse for Carr - that has been going on for far too long now.
Since our QB and line don't complement each other, I don't worry about their interaction. Put the best player available at QB, put the best player available at each position on the line, and then hold players accountable for their play.
If we don't, we could go on forever like this.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Ding ding ding! Winner! Thanks for wording this so succinctly. I have no problem with Kubes benching Carr and won't really worry about it if he starts Sage the rest of the year. At the same time, our line's play has been erratic at best, and downright poor for most of the year and about all of the past 4.5 years.
"You must spread rep around, blah blah, blah." I'll get ya later, Runner
hollywood_texan
All Pro
RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!!! EXCELLENT POST ABOVE!!! GREAT SUMMARY!!!!
David has some decent stats and a high QB rating, but a lot of other average QBs or backups could do the same thing in this system. Ummmm, Rosenfels???
David's biggest problem isn't the mistakes because every player makes them. His problem is that he doesn't make huge plays by himself to show he is worth more to the team in the long-haul or when the game is on the line.
It's okay for QB to lose the game for a team, but he needs to be the biggest reason why the team wins games on a regular basis. Unfortunately, Carr doesn't have THAT or IT.
done88
Waterboy
I guess it was just me but I happened to see 2 of the worst performances in our O-Line's storied history turned in by Salaam and Wiegert. I also happened to see our special teams turn in a rather lackluster showing. Not to mention i've yet to see ANYONE even hint that Peek whiffed on 3 potential tackles off the top of my head, including the one where he had Vince wrapped up in the backfield and Vince shrugged him off and ran it in for a td.
There were many more mistakes but to keep my rant short...by saying Carr had a bad game today would be an understatement, but dont let the Carr haters on this board who have been waiting under their respective bridges keyboard in hand for the opportunity to crucify DC fool you into thinking Carr was the sole reason we lost this game today.
We win as a team and we lose as a team, it is a team game afterall.
PS: I hope Jeff Fisher can sleep tonight knowing he played a scumbag wankster that spits on women just to beat us
The fact of the matter is with David not a good offense, with Sage an offense that was very good. The other personel were exactly the same.
R
real
Guest
Yeah ...
and i'm not saying we can't win with Carr...I think he is good enough to win in this leauge...But i don't think he will ever prove he was worth a 1st overall...I personally don't think he is good enough for that...I think he is capable of making good to really good plays...But I don't see him as the kind of player that makes amazing plays, and I think that will always be his downfall, and that will always make some fans feel as if Carr isn't good enough...Thats why even when Carr plays well, you always have people saying "yeah but______"....
IMO, if you think Carr has played like he was worthy of the #1 pick you are delusional....but at the same time if you are ready to give up on him, you need to step back and look at the situation...If anything you all that want David to be benched should be tired of the "unknown" factor when it comes to his potential....Just relax, and let him sink, or swim....
Tale Gator
________
Why did our offensive line suddenly look solid once Sage was in the game?
R
real
Guest
I didn't get a chance to watch the game, but on the radio this morning they said that Sage gets rid of the ball quicker than Carr...Which means he reads coverages better and knows where to go with the ball pre-snap...
Keldar
Waterboy
Good question, but here is a little quote from an ESPN game report.
Tennessee defensive lineman Kyle Vanden Bosch, who sacked and stripped Carr of the ball just before halftime, said the Titans felt they had Carr rattled after Tony Brown picked up the ball and returned it 40 yards for a touchdown.
"We were back there in the backfield all day today," Vanden Bosch said.
Hmmmm........
Tennessee defensive lineman Kyle Vanden Bosch, who sacked and stripped Carr of the ball just before halftime, said the Titans felt they had Carr rattled after Tony Brown picked up the ball and returned it 40 yards for a touchdown.
"We were back there in the backfield all day today," Vanden Bosch said.
Hmmmm........
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
It's a history thing. Some of the people throwing him under the bus have had him down there since day 1. There were several regulars who were wanting Carr cut before that $8 million contract extension and several more wanted him benched prior to the start of regular season. Personally, if benching him will help him develop, then I say bench him.
Kubiak has made excellent improvement in Carr so I'll trust his decision on this.
But it's hard to watch Carr play sometimes. The last coaching staff and all the sacks really damaged his head. Even though Sage doesn't have the same physical tools, he just looks so much more poised in the pocket.
Hey, the Oline ain't great, but it was GOOD ENOUGH on Sunday. This is the NFL, and you're just not going to have a pretty pocket to throw from every freakin' time. Sage was able to deal with it, and Carr needs to find a way to deal with it or else he's out of a job. It's just not fair to our Oline to expect that. You want to blame those fumbles on our Oline?!? Please, that's ridiculous homer-talk. Carr is the guy with the ball, Carr needs to hold on to it. It's not like he was totally blindsided (like against the Dolphins) either. He saw the rush coming and still couldn't hold on to the football. Inexcusable.
Like I said before, I'm a pro-Carr guy and expect him to respond next week. But lets blame Carr, not that Oline.
Like I said before, I'm a pro-Carr guy and expect him to respond next week. But lets blame Carr, not that Oline.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
I hear ya...
I would like to give Carr the entire part of the year to be the starter regardless of how he does, just to put this thing to rest once and for all. This is the end for Carr as a Texan in my opinion. Carr has such a deep hole to get out of and he has to start that trend out of the hole on the road against the Giants and Jags. If Carr is going to climb out of this, it's probably going to a lot worse before it gets better. Again, I just don't see how he gets out of this. He has had so many chances in his career to really show something special and he hasn't proven he is worth a #1 draft pick like you said. If he was drafted lower and paid less money, maybe his job wouldn't be in jeopardy. But then again, it would be easier to let him go.
The bigger problem is having a very high draft pick next year, top 3 or so. Those guys are too expensive for this team right now and you get locked into a certain position. Basically a top 3 pick pushes your hand. This team needs help in so many areas, so they could find an impact player in the top 3, but then you still have to unload Carr. Those are some big pills to swallow from a financial and cap perspective.
This team needs to be at about the 10th pick this year. Kubiak looks to have done wondefully with last year's draft. If can do the same thing again, Kubiak won't need a high draft pick next year.
R
real
Guest
I think if we get a top 3 pick next year we try real hard to trade down...atleast that's what I hope they'd do...
I love the move. Sit Carr down..... I just wish he didn't tell Carr that he'll be starting come Sunday. I agree that he should start @ NYG, but I'd have let him wonder for a couple of days.
But if you want to talk OL, and what is necessary to play in this league, watch Eli tonight. that OLine is atrocious...... you'll see him make plays with poor protection.
If you had watched the Dallas game last night, or last week, you'd see that just because some QBs need all day to make reads, it's not a necessity in this league, and it shouldn't be.
What we had yesterday was atrocious but a QB taken with the #1 overall should have been able to deal with it.
There are different ways to deal with it. You have the McNabb/Vick approach..... you have the Brady/Farve approach..... then you have the Bulger/Peyton Approach.
Well, you are wrong becuase I don't like or dislike Carr. I want him to play smart every Sunday b/c he is our starting QB, it is his 5th year, and he has had enough time and coaching (now with Kubes) to become an every week pro.
Carr had some bad blocking granted - but he didn't protect the ball. The fumbles cost us the game - check the score.
Kubes needs to figure out what Carr can do once in for all this season....