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Sick of AJ dropping the ball
- Thread starter Goldeagle
- Start date
Goldeagle
Veteran
Totally, Well except in the 2nd quarter of the Jets game when AJ dropped the pass.
If Carrs numbers dont count than AJs numbers dont count.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Andre Johnson leads the NFL in receptions and is 3rd in yardage. Think about that and read this thread.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/REC/2006/regular
I posted this before but worth posting again...I have to question many Houston football fans 'football IQ' when they dog on Johnson. Saying Johnson is a part of the problem here is like saying that Lance Berkman is a part of the problem with the Astros because he strikes out sometimes. WR's drop passes. It just happens. We happen to follow this team the closest so that's the only thing we see. It's like the various fans of different teams hating the draft record of their team each year....they think they follow the only team in the NFL that blows draft picks...some of you guys are way too close to the elephant. I've read some pretty amazing stuff in a few threads, not just here in this one...just a general overview.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/REC/2006/regular
I posted this before but worth posting again...I have to question many Houston football fans 'football IQ' when they dog on Johnson. Saying Johnson is a part of the problem here is like saying that Lance Berkman is a part of the problem with the Astros because he strikes out sometimes. WR's drop passes. It just happens. We happen to follow this team the closest so that's the only thing we see. It's like the various fans of different teams hating the draft record of their team each year....they think they follow the only team in the NFL that blows draft picks...some of you guys are way too close to the elephant. I've read some pretty amazing stuff in a few threads, not just here in this one...just a general overview.
texan279
Hall of Fame
Why is it OK to use stats to pump AJ but not Carr? When anyone tries to use stats to back Carr you say stats are useless yet you post a statline showing us AJ leads the NFL in receptions? If your going to pump him for being #1 in the NFL in receptions you gotta give some credit to Carr, especially since AJ is 3rd in the NFL with 14 catches of 20+ yards, tied for 2nd in the NFL with 4 100+ yard games, yet he is 65th in the NFL in average yards per catch and ranked 51st in the NFL in average yards after catch. My problem with AJ is not just the dropped passes, but his problems with getting separation and not playing physical enough.
texan279
Hall of Fame
Actually it isn't, he is 3rd in yardage, and is tied for 3rd in the NFL with 14 catches of 20+ yards, yet he is 65th in the NFL in yards per catch and 51st in average yards after catch, that tells me he doesn't do much after catching the ball to be ranked so high in total yards yet ranked so low in yards per catch and yards after catch.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Ok, It really doesn't shock me that we can't agree on Carr either. I just need to stay out of these kinds of things since I can't grasp your thinking or grasp what you see when you watch Andre Johnson play football and dog him for being one a top 10 WR's in the NFL, from being a great blocking wr to the one player that has been productive on a consistent basis in a largely unproductive offense when healthy. I'm sure he is a Pro Bowler this year and this will make it two in 4 years. You go on and keep on seeing what you see. I just don't see how any of you guys can be so down on Andre Johnson. Johnson is the only gamebreaker on offense and draws ALL the defensive attention yet he still thrives even with the NFL's best defenders assigned to him every single week. I watch lots of football from SEC to the NFL....lol is all I can say.
texan279
Hall of Fame
I never said I was down on him, and ok so he can block, just saying he is not a perfect WR, he does have problems getting separation and IMO he doesn't play physical enough. As far as the Pro Bowl, it's a stat driven popularity contest, but like you always say, stats don't matter right?
texan279
Hall of Fame
Bottom line is Carr and AJ have both improved since '05, but both still have areas that need work.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
At the EOY, AJ will have two pro bowls and is a proven playmaker in the NFL in his first 4 years. You can't say anything close to that about Carr. Andre Johnson is an elite player and he is constantly surrounded because teams know Carr locks into him. Once we get an offense that makes teams pay for cheating extra help to him on a regular basis, he is going to be a mega-star. Until then we only have a Pro Bowler that gets the bejabbers pounded out of him because he catches most of his passes underneath the linebacker drops. It's amazing you guys can't see how physical he is despite being covered by 2 or more of the NFL elite defenders each Sunday. He has dropped some passes because he is the only playmaker on the team and teams cheat to him. That's really not as big a problem as you guys make it out to be. Frankly it would amuse me more if it didn't make wonder what you guys are looking at when you watch the games on Sunday.
texan279
Hall of Fame
Sure he makes plays, but he also drops balls that hit him in the hands and I have seen two cornerbacks take balls out of his hands this season. You know, you say he is such an elite WR and such a playmaker, there has to be a QB throwing the ball to him to give him those opportunities right?
GNTLEWOLF
Rookie
I Really hate these kind of discussions and usually participate very little since I believe them to be fruitless. However, in the posts that I have participated in, I tend to be more supportive of Carr than critical. I have believed and still do that carr's problems have stemmed from several factors, not the least of which are poor o-line and lack of coaching. It has been my contention, with that in mind, that carr needs to be given more slack. Having said this, I have often compared him to Jake Plummer. I feel that Plummer was a great HOF caliber QB when he came out of college. His potential was immeasureable. However, with several years of run-for-your-life football in Arizona, he developed bad habits that he was never able to fully outgrow once he left there. In short, Plummer has been ruined. When this season began, I wondered if maybe DC was not now the same way, that is ruined as a result of being a human tackling dummy for the 4 previous years. I like the kid and would love to see him succeed, but I wonder if that will ever be possible, and more speciffically if that is possible in Houston. From what I've seen on these boards, I doubt that is possible. Both sides, The Carr haters, and The Carr homers refuse to face facts. Both sides use stats to prove their own point of view regardless of whether or not this kid played well. Frankly, Carr has had very good games this year, and he has been dreadful. Both in the winning(Carr lovers) and in the losing(Carr haters) he was not alone on the field. The game of football is a team sport. No one man can win a game or lose it. That person can be the spark that turns the tide, or the weak link that leads to failure, but they can not win or lose a game alone! Like most of you, I played football in HS, and like some of you, I have coached at the HS level. I understand the debate, and both sides of that debate. Valid points each way.
Having vented my frustration, I now agree with Ibar that it is probably a mistake for Carr to stay in Houston. In order for him to succeed he will have to go. It Is indeed a no win situation.
But, Lets be fair and spread the blame around where it belongs. There have been times when other beloved players could have and should have stepped up to make plays also, and didn't. I don't care if they are all-pro. I don't care who thinks that only sunshine lollipops grow in the light of their brilliance. Each member of this team has failed, and should be called on the carpet for it as much as any other member. That includes Andre. With that, I'm not saying trade him. he is talented. I don't hate him. I want him to stay. I just want him and the rest of the team to be accountable also.
Goldeagle
Veteran
And WHO gets Andre the ball?
Who could not get open Vs. the Jets?
Who drops 2-3 passes a game?
JDizzle
I'm a dude
The dropping is an issue with AJ just as it is with guys like TO and Steve Smith, but if you watch these guys play you cannot deny their playmaking ability and how valuable they are to their teams. Take AJ off this team and multiply how bad we are x 10. He will probably go to the pro bowl this year playing for one of the worst teams in the NFL. That alone speaks volumes about his play. AJ is big time whereas Carr is the Betamax Video player of the Texans .... pimped heavily, ton of potential, but fell flat on his face when push came to shove.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
I am not a AJ hater, but I just have not seen the playmaking ability that I expected from him, specifically around YAC. I can handle the drops if he could shake guys ala TO and Smith and go the distance. This is one place where I do agree with the pro Carr crowd in AJ's perceived value.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
I am indeed confused on why it is time to call out everyone. Calling out 5 year folks like Carr, McKinney, Pitts, Stanley and Brown make sense to me. They are the survivors from a past regime that did not know squat. In my opinion there may be two starters there for only half of the teams in the NFL.
I certainly hope that only Carr and Pitts are the only ones of that lot back next year.
Goldeagle
Veteran
I think its frustration, like me starting this topic because I AM tired of AJ dropping routine passes that elites dont drop.
But you are right to be confused, its a new system and (I hate to say it) like we are starting over and so far, I like how the team plays, I like the new GM and there is light at the end of the tunnel
But you are right to be confused, its a new system and (I hate to say it) like we are starting over and so far, I like how the team plays, I like the new GM and there is light at the end of the tunnel
Hey, bro', how long do you see AJ putting up with this team if they can't pull their heads out of their collective losing rears? He's a quiet dude, and the epitome of class. You don't hear much from him at all. What concerns me, though, is what lies beneath that calm demeanor, because you know he realizes that his talent could be used on better teams to help take them to the promise land.
The more and more we lose, the more pressure that is put on the next season to succeed. And unfortunately, this is not a team that performs well under pressure. I hope with all my being that we're not turning into the Cardinals of this new millenium.
run-david-run
All Pro
#1 in the NFL in yards after the catch
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
I tend to look at averages rather than the result due to volume. I would bet that his average YAC per catch is not that good amongst other #1's, especially those in a WCO style offense. But I could be wrong.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Ever think he just isn't playing with much interest anymore? How many games has he won since he joined the league? Not many. Doesn't seem to be that pumped up anymore...I'd say that this is part of the reason he is dropping balls.
He is obviously a great player, and has great hands. Every receiver has his drops, but AJ more so recently. He is kind of in a funk (when it comes to catching some of the easy balls). I think if our team was more competitive his drops would be well down.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Can't really blame him...not like he tries to drop them. If I was on a team that lost as many games as this team has...I wouldn't be playing with as much confidence, interest, or enthusiasm.
Wolf
100% Texan
all receivers drop balls, but when a TEAM in not talented enough to overcome mistakes , it complicates the situation.. like last week before half time...AJ dropped a ball that was in his hands and would have given us a field goal (at least and if brown makes it). Points on offense are hard to comeby so this magnifies the situation..
run-david-run
All Pro
How do you expect them to make plays? Its simple math: most of the time, we run some version of the I formation with 2 WR's, 1 TE, 1 RB and 1 FB. We usualy have at least 6 blockers, the RB goes into the flat or a 3 yard curl in the middle of the field. This leaves AJ, Moulds and OD running actual routes against 7 defenders. Almost all of the routes are curls, crossing routes or slants, meaning they are caught in front of the D. That leaves our WR's with about 4 tackles to break in order to "make a big play". Until we open up the offense and take some chances, we are going to continue to have those 10 play, 5 minute drives that end at the 35 yard line.
Wolf
100% Texan
good post.. and the problem with those 10 play 5 minute drives is our OL can't hold up (consistantly (due to injuries)) and teams know that their defense can bend but don't break against us because we can't make them pay
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
It really shows how losses are compounded. The more you lose...the more of a chance you will lose the next week.
Wolf
100% Texan
very true and Kubiak (as he has quoted in the past) has a tough job to instill a winning attitude esp since we really haven't had one yet
Got find our swagger or Mojo (like on battle red day)
texan279
Hall of Fame
#9 in the NFL in yards after catch...
texan279
Hall of Fame
He is the highest paid player on the team, he is making almost 8 mil this season, he better be interested.
DFAN
Waterboy
He has 7 drops on the year. Not sure if anyone answered your questioned or not.http://sports.iwon.com/nfl/stats/league/passesdropped.html
dtran04
Veteran
From Kubiak's mouth:
(on what more he feels the receivers need to do) “Well, I don’t know. You sit there and you have two players that catch ten balls. You know, we have to get down the field better. We have to come off the ball better. That’s something that I think we can improve on. You know, I think being a good receiver in this league is being able to take little plays and make them big plays. I think we can make people miss better. Take more responsibility as far as run after the catch. You know, you’re always on receivers to do a better job in the run game, but, hey, that’s strength of our team. And I tell those…and I tell (WR) Andre (Johnson) and I look at that group and I say, you know what, if we have to go to a group to make plays for us to win, week-in and week-out you all should feel like that group. So I’m not going to let them be average, and I’m on them today. They did some good things, but they can play a lot better than they played. And they know that as a group. And they’ve got to play really well for us. If you look at the games we won, Andre (Johnson) made some special plays in those games. You look at the Miami and Jacksonville , some of the plays he made in those games. And when we don’t make those plays, we struggle. I just need him to make more of them.”
Take it however you want it. I'm sure people can spin it however they want but I'm just throwing it out there.
(on what more he feels the receivers need to do) “Well, I don’t know. You sit there and you have two players that catch ten balls. You know, we have to get down the field better. We have to come off the ball better. That’s something that I think we can improve on. You know, I think being a good receiver in this league is being able to take little plays and make them big plays. I think we can make people miss better. Take more responsibility as far as run after the catch. You know, you’re always on receivers to do a better job in the run game, but, hey, that’s strength of our team. And I tell those…and I tell (WR) Andre (Johnson) and I look at that group and I say, you know what, if we have to go to a group to make plays for us to win, week-in and week-out you all should feel like that group. So I’m not going to let them be average, and I’m on them today. They did some good things, but they can play a lot better than they played. And they know that as a group. And they’ve got to play really well for us. If you look at the games we won, Andre (Johnson) made some special plays in those games. You look at the Miami and Jacksonville , some of the plays he made in those games. And when we don’t make those plays, we struggle. I just need him to make more of them.”
Take it however you want it. I'm sure people can spin it however they want but I'm just throwing it out there.
run-david-run
All Pro
Goldeagle
Veteran
I think we would have a better W-L if Carr wasn't our QB.
Well atleast when AJ drops the ball it is not run back for a TD like when carr drops the ball.
Quit wasting your time, CARR SUCKS!