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Shotgun vs Under Center

welsh texan

All Pro
So far this season we run 85% of plays from the shotgun. Last season we ran 79% of plays from the shotgun.

If we wish to commit to a ball control, power run offense, why do we run from the shotgun so much?

We’ve seen Arian Foster, Lamar Miller, Carlos Hyde and now David Johnson all put up mediocre numbers despite OBrien wanting to emphasise the run.

We run it first and second down and end up with 3rd and 7 far too often.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
So far this season we run 85% of plays from the shotgun. Last season we ran 79% of plays from the shotgun.

If we wish to commit to a ball control, power run offense, why do we run from the shotgun so much?

We’ve seen Arian Foster, Lamar Miller, Carlos Hyde and now David Johnson all put up mediocre numbers despite OBrien wanting to emphasise the run.

We run it first and second down and end up with 3rd and 7 far too often.
I keep hearing Texans say this, but what they want to be is a balanced attack. A team that may pass or run from any formation, to keep the defense confused of what they're going to do. They want to run a lot of RPOs from that shotgun formation.

Considering it's not working well, though, you have the right to question everything. The inability to run the ball suggests changes should be made. According to the stat Run Block Win Rate, the OL is actually doing their job. So where's the problem? Scheme? Play calling? David Johnson?
 

welsh texan

All Pro
I keep hearing Texans say this, but what they want to be is a balanced attack. A team that may pass or run from any formation, to keep the defense confused of what they're going to do. They want to run a lot of RPOs from that shotgun formation.

Considering it's not working well, though, you have the right to question everything. The inability to run the ball suggests changes should be made. According to the stat Run Block Win Rate, the OL is actually doing their job. So where's the problem? Scheme? Play calling? David Johnson?
The RPO is meant to yet we see it getting blown up over and over.
Can’t protect the QB.
Can’t stop the run.
Can’t run the football.
I don’t understand why OB always seems to go for RB’s that are best in space when he just wants to run them into a pile out of the shotgun. (Hyde isn’t this type but we soon got rid of him).
It just seems that the basics of the philosophy are off.
We talk about being balanced yet go run heavy between the tackles. We want to run on 1st and 2nd but also pretend we might not do that by running it from the shotgun. It isn’t fooling anyone.
 
BOB the GM just knows that he would tell O'Brien the HC to give David Johnson the number of snaps to try to justify the trade; the HC just does as he was told. Nobody told him to change the scheme.
There is no way that the poor running is on David Johnson. If the stats say otherwise the stats are pure BS. The O-line could not run block for s&^%! The O-line did a solid job of pass protection in the first half but that reverted to sucksville in the second half of the game.

DW4 overall had a good game but he is not magical and can't save our team when the team as a whole sucks. We saw how good DW4 could be when given a reasonable time to deliver a pass. Unfortunately playing to protect a lead always seems to backfire for us. We could have scored two more TD's if we utilized our momentum and played the whole game to win.

When it comes to BO'bs offense I don't think it matters if we run from the shotgun or not.
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
There is no way that the poor running is on David Johnson. If the stats say otherwise the stats are pure BS. The offensive line could not run block for s&^%! The O-line did a solid job of pass protection in the first half but that reverted to sucksville in the second half of the game.

DW4 overall had a good game but he is not magical and can't save our team when the team as a whole sucks. We saw how good DW4 could be when given a reasonable time to deliver a pass. Unfortunately playing to protect a lead always seems to backfire for us. We could have scored two more TD's if we utilized our momentum and played the whole game to win.

When it comes to BO'bs offense I don't think it matters if we run from the shotgun or not.
Speaking of magic, O'Brien can really make a RB disappear, I swear. :lol:
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
There is no way that the poor running is on David Johnson. If the stats say otherwise the stats are pure BS. The O-line could not run block for s&^%! The O-line did a solid job of pass protection in the first half but that reverted to sucksville in the second half of the game.

DW4 overall had a good game but he is not magical and can't save our team when the team as a whole sucks. We saw how good DW4 could be when given a reasonable time to deliver a pass. Unfortunately playing to protect a lead always seems to backfire for us. We could have scored two more TD's if we utilized our momentum and played the whole game to win.

When it comes to BO'bs offense I don't think it matters if we run from the shotgun or not.
I saw Rivers McCown say Johnson has 2 broken tackles this year. That’s pathetic. Dude needs to make a play
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So far this season we run 85% of plays from the shotgun. Last season we ran 79% of plays from the shotgun.

If we wish to commit to a ball control, power run offense, why do we run from the shotgun so much?

We’ve seen Arian Foster, Lamar Miller, Carlos Hyde and now David Johnson all put up mediocre numbers despite OBrien wanting to emphasise the run.

We run it first and second down and end up with 3rd and 7 far too often.
Because DW4's most comfortable in the shotgun. He's played from the gun his whole life.

BTW, I agree with your premise.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I keep hearing Texans say this, but what they want to be is a balanced attack. A team that may pass or run from any formation, to keep the defense confused of what they're going to do. They want to run a lot of RPOs from that shotgun formation.

Considering it's not working well, though, you have the right to question everything. The inability to run the ball suggests changes should be made. According to the stat Run Block Win Rate, the OL is actually doing their job. So where's the problem? Scheme? Play calling? David Johnson?

The issue is a simple one - They don't follow the principal of the RPO which is to take advantage of numbers - its like analytics in basketball except the Texans don't do it , they just run it like its a designed play.

and its really not just a RPO , its a Run Run Pass option that is dictated by what two defenders do - usually an inside LBer and corner on the play side. If the inside Lber bites on the fake the QB keeps the ball with an outside numbers advantage in blockers to defenders , if the corner bites on the run outside the WR beats him over the top.
If that Lber doesn't bite on the fake , the back takes it ... with a numbers advantage backside.

The Texans just hand the damn thing to the back no matter what - often running into a numbers disadvantage.

I assume they do this so Watson isn't taking hits and its about the only run play there is from the pistol set that Watson / Ob appear to prefer and they want to appear balanced offensively. (this is my excuse for why the continue to do it).

Damn put this guy under center .... and pound the rock a few times , then run some play action.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
The issue is a simple one - They don't follow the principal of the RPO which is to take advantage of numbers - its like analytics in basketball except the Texans don't do it , they just run it like its a designed play.

and its really not just a RPO , its a Run Run Pass option that is dictated by what two defenders do - usually an inside LBer and corner on the play side. If the inside Lber bites on the fake the QB keeps the ball with an outside numbers advantage in blockers to defenders , if the corner bites on the run outside the WR beats him over the top.
If that Lber doesn't bite on the fake , the back takes it ... with a numbers advantage backside.

The Texans just hand the damn thing to the back no matter what - often running into a numbers disadvantage.

I assume they do this so Watson isn't taking hits and its about the only run play there is from the pistol set that Watson / Ob appear to prefer and they want to appear balanced offensively. (this is my excuse for why the continue to do it).

Damn put this guy under center .... and pound the rock a few times , then run some play action.
You just can't run anything half-baked.
And O'Brien' s game planned offense is definitely half-baked
 
I saw Rivers McCown say Johnson has 2 broken tackles this year. That’s pathetic. Dude needs to make a play
If he had enough space to a take on a few tacklers where he could gain solid yards that would allow for a fair assessment. I did not watch the game against the Ravens so I can't critique him in that game but yesterday he was having to break through damn near walls. That is asking a bit much. We saw in the KC game where when given some reasonable space he could make an impact. If the O-line was better than pedestrian then criticizing him for not running hard enough would be fair. I feel sorry that he has to try to make things happen behind such garbage for an O-line.
 
Don’t think BoB is putting him in position to be successful but hey we can add that to the long list of players he does that too.


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All I heard in regards to David Johnson was how he was a multipurpose running back and yet he is not catching many passes and he is not taking the ball on screens either. Our team has to be the worst at screens. Anyway I don't see how we can place much blame on David Johnson.
 

Jadmakaveli

Veteran
All I heard in regards to David Johnson was how he was a multipurpose running back and yet he is not catching many passes and he is not taking the ball on screens either. Our team has to be the worst at screens. Anyway I don't see how we can place much blame on David Johnson.
Yea I don’t really put any blame on him to be honest. He’s just another skill player in BoB long list of players he’s failed to properly scheme around.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
Or DW4'S played in the gun his whole life and is more comfortable there would probably be closer to the truth.

But yes Martin is very avg and needs to be replaced. Hopefully by Fulton very soon.
Unfortunately, this is something Billy O can’t fathom. It’s seemed obvious from the moment Fulton was signed he’d be a better shot at C. We’ve re-upped Martin on good money since then.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Or DW4'S played in the gun his whole life and is more comfortable there would probably be closer to the truth.

But yes Martin is very avg and needs to be replaced. Hopefully by Fulton very soon.
The majority of QBs being drafted today have played in the gun their entire lives. Every year, you hear about a QBs struggling from under center or taking their first snaps under center at the NFL combine. In fact, Justin Hebert and Kyler Murray are two other QBs who played in the gun their entire lives. Even Mahomes wasn't playing under center at Texas Tech.

It's a matter of coaching and player development. Even this year, there has been a couple of big plays from Watson where he was under center. I don't buy this excuse.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The majority of QBs being drafted today have played in the gun their entire lives. Every year, you hear about a QBs struggling from under center or taking their first snaps under center at the NFL combine. In fact, Justin Hebert and Kyler Murray are two other QBs who played in the gun their entire lives. Even Mahomes wasn't playing under center at Texas Tech.

It's a matter of coaching and player development. Even this year, there has been a couple of big plays from Watson where he was under center. I don't buy this excuse.
Maybe DW4 doesn't like playing under center.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-2...Post OB!!!!!
Do you remember which game(s); I'd like to take a look at it some time.
Yes, and I stand corrected. His best games at Center came in KC where he started 12 games in 2017. He wasn't that valuable at RG and was even less at LG. He was due to be a FA in 2018. Fulton wanted Center money and the Chiefs wanted to pay him OG money since it would be much cheaper to them. Fulton was PFF's 14th ranked Center in 2017. Seriously, it seems like RG has always been his weakest position since arriving to the NFL as a RD6 pick. He did play Center for the Texans during Pre-Season when Martin was out. Like KC, he looked better at Center versus RG. OB just couldn't give up on Martin which would become a big mistake. Fulton has always relied on his raw power which is very good but he better utilizes his strength advantage in a smaller booth.....hence his much better play at Center. When the Texans signed him they should've plugged him in at Center right out of the gate but per usual....the teams lack of real talent evaluation led to a poor move by placing a very weak and light Martin back at Center and then putting Fulton at RG, his worst position.
 


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