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Sexual Assault Suits Against Watson

badboy

Hall of Fame
And that personal conduct has to be proven - what proof do you have of that conduct until a conviction is handed down ?
Not the way that I read it. He has admitted to conduct that has adversely affected club; Loss of $ with fans not showing (parking, concessions). I would imagine Houston also could show a downturn in advertising. Being a laughing stock and talked about daily across the nation has also been harmful. I am surprised Mrs McNair did not terminate him under this statute and the lawyers work it out with the players union.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
You mean unless state offenses cross state borders. Which it reportedly did giving them jurisdiction and reason to act.

Not in the case of the claimed extortion.

The Interstate claim was that Watson brought one of the "hookers" from Atlanta.


It was reported that the attorney who made the settlement offer was Buzbee for one of the plaintiffs here in Houston. (not interstate , no federal jurisdiction).


Again , it's not illegal for an attorney to make settlement offers on behalf of their clients , if it were , every last attorney on the planet would be guilty of that ....


The federal jurisdiction here is use of the internet to procure / communicate with his victims which falls under the jurisdiction of the US DOJ and the FBI.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Not the way that I read it. He has admitted to conduct that has adversely affected club; Loss of $ with fans not showing (parking, concessions). I would imagine Houston also could show a downturn in advertising. Being a laughing stock and talked about daily across the nation has also been harmful. I am surprised Mrs McNair did not terminate him under this statute and the lawyers work it out with the players union.

The only thing he admitted was having had consensual sex with multiple women.

Its going to take a criminal conviction to void the contract on that basis.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
Not in the case of the claimed extortion.

The Interstate claim was that Watson brought one of the "hookers" from Atlanta.


It was reported that the attorney who made the settlement offer was Buzbee for one of the plaintiffs here in Houston. (not interstate , no federal jurisdiction).


Again , it's not illegal for an attorney to make settlement offers on behalf of their clients , if it were , every last attorney on the planet would be guilty of that ....


The federal jurisdiction here is use of the internet to procure / communicate with his victims which falls under the jurisdiction of the US DOJ and the FBI.
State charges crossing state lines as I mentioned, be it extortion or something else gives the the fbi cause to act. Your rebuttal does nothing to refute that.

You asked how I, "of all people" would know and this is it.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
Not in the case of the claimed extortion.

The Interstate claim was that Watson brought one of the "hookers" from Atlanta.


It was reported that the attorney who made the settlement offer was Buzbee for one of the plaintiffs here in Houston. (not interstate , no federal jurisdiction).


Again , it's not illegal for an attorney to make settlement offers on behalf of their clients , if it were , every last attorney on the planet would be guilty of that ....


The federal jurisdiction here is use of the internet to procure / communicate with his victims which falls under the jurisdiction of the US DOJ and the FBI.
I referenced Watson's attorney claim on extortion but not exclusively that. Internet evidence crossing borders would be enough as you agreed in a follow up post.

I didn't say otherwise.

Not sure what your arguing. I don't think the fbi cares either way on our "hot takes."
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
The premise as I understood it was that he had been named starter and then refused to play... that would be grounds would it not?
If he outright refused , that would be grounds for a suspension .... but I think if they put the screws to him and said suit up and play , he likely claims some sort of injury .... my back hurts , my groin is tight .... and you'd have a very difficult time proving otherwise.

Thing is , they don't want to void his contract unless he's convicted criminally - he'd be an unrestricted free agent and they'd get no compensation. If he's convicted criminally he's never playing again anyhow so void it ....
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I referenced Watson's attorney claim on extortion but not exclusively that. Internet evidence crossing borders would be enough as you agreed in a follow up post.

I didn't say otherwise.

Not sure what your arguing. I don't think the fbi cares either way on our "hot takes."

What I'm saying is that Watson's attorney's claims of extortion are unfounded to begin with - attorney's routinely make settlement offers and it wasn't an across state lines issue.

That issue would not induce the DOJ / FBI getting involved.
 

djohn2oo8

Veteran
If he outright refused , that would be grounds for a suspension .... but I think if they put the screws to him and said suit up and play , he likely claims some sort of injury .... my back hurts , my groin is tight .... and you'd have a very difficult time proving otherwise.

Thing is , they don't want to void his contract unless he's convicted criminally - he'd be an unrestricted free agent and they'd get no compensation. If he's convicted criminally he's never playing again anyhow so void it ....
Yep. And for this year the trade deadline is in November, so that’s going to come by pretty quick.
 
You know IM FAMILIAR with how bad the system works but this is outright stupid. Any da worth a damn understands any new assault during investigation but prior to charges makes them liable. So again, I think there is no smoking gun yet.

At this point, I'm wondering if anything will be resolved before the 22 draft.
Doubt the DA is really worried about that. First I’m guessing Hardin is vetting any posts Watson makes and his whole social media activity. The Birthday grope was posted by his girlfriend but I will be surprised if another one of those slips through.

Second even if Watson did sneak away and manage to contact another woman the case and him are so high profile with the media so hungry for ANYTHING new that she could make a mint just selling the story that Watson is still trying to reach out to women. It’s important to remember that even if it was worst case for him and all 22 cases were true he isn’t going out tracking women on the street, he has a distinct fetish and MO and if he can’t follow that then the risk is much lower.

So yeah the DA can take their time and drag their feet on this one because the odds there being a new assault that took place during the investigation are low.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
What I'm saying is that Watson's attorney's claims of extortion are unfounded to begin with - attorney's routinely make settlement offers and it wasn't an across state lines issue.

That issue would not induce the DOJ / FBI getting involved.
It's difficult for me to understand how anyone could believe otherwise. I posted the explanations in the past several times. And those people that say that if there were any evidence against Watson, he would have been arrested (which is not how things work in such a convoluted situation)..............those are the same people that don't accept the fact that if the FBI who Hardin said was investigating extortion (a simple single incident) by one of the victims in April has not gone anywhere.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Doubt the DA is really worried about that. First I’m guessing Hardin is vetting any posts Watson makes and his whole social media activity. The Birthday grope was posted by his girlfriend but I will be surprised if another one of those slips through.

Second even if Watson did sneak away and manage to contact another woman the case and him are so high profile with the media so hungry for ANYTHING new that she could make a mint just selling the story that Watson is still trying to reach out to women. It’s important to remember that even if it was worst case for him and all 22 cases were true he isn’t going out tracking women on the street, he has a distinct fetish and MO and if he can’t follow that then the risk is much lower.

So yeah the DA can take their time and drag their feet on this one because the odds there being a new assault that took place during the investigation are low.
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I also think prosecutors would be pushing this case much faster if they felt it was a slam dunk guilty verdict due to strong physical evidence.

The slow road this case is currently on probably has a more to do with a lack of physical evidence and the witnesses not all being on the same page. There may be questions as to why all 22 victims didn’t come forward to file criminal charges. Some of these victims may not be as squeaky clean as presented and may not be good witnesses on the stand.

Another thing to take into consideration is Watson doesn't have any criminal history and has a solid track record of contributing financially to the community.

Personally, I just don’t think there’s enough physical evidence to lock Watson away for any length of time. I know others have mentioned this but I feel it okay to mention again…..Watson at worst gets probation and community service…..at best is found innocent and goes back to work. The civil case side of this wouldn’t affect Watson’s work schedule except when a court case date is assigned and Hardin could request that this case is heard in the off-season.
Even in a full blown rape case physical evidence is hard to get because basically the victim would have go right to the police and a rape kit done almost immediately. In a sexual assault case it’s even harder because well what physical evidence can there be if a man forces a woman to touch his penis? Fingerprints maybe?
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
Even in a full blown rape case physical evidence is hard to get because basically the victim would have go right to the police and a rape kit done almost immediately. In a sexual assault case it’s even harder because well what physical evidence can there be if a man forces a woman to touch his penis? Fingerprints maybe?
That sort of rape case physical evidence isn't even needed. DW4's defense isn't that he doesn't know these women. He's not saying that he never had sex with them. He's saying he did have sex with them and it was consensual.

Even with their fingerprints on his johnson, how do you prove that the women were coerced to touch it?

Even if someone videotaped the incident, who's to say it wasn't a staged event?

People can commit these sorts of crimes almost without any fear of getting prosecuted. Most victims won't even go to the police because they know that it becomes a he said/she said situation and there's no way to prove it. This is how the innocent until proven guilty foundation of our legal system doesn't work as well for these kinds of victims, especially against the rich. Any woman who comes forward with this sort of thing is going to be accused of being a liar who's just doing it as a money-grab. Anything they've ever done will be brought up as proof of that. And there ARE women who will do that, which just makes it more difficult for the real victims.

This is why #MeToo started. Victims (both female and male) of these sorts of crimes have not been able to get justice and the guilty have been free to do as they please.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
I've said many times I'm fine with a trial, I'm also asking you if he isn't covicted of sexual assault, what do you do with a guy who's obviously a sexual predator? I'm looking forward to your reply.
That’s all us anti-lyncher’s have been saying……let the trial or his day in court determine his innocence or guilt. If guilty, let the court hand down their punishment and everyone can move on with their lives. If he’s innocent, then he’s an innocent of ALL charges regardless of your personal feelings. I’m fairly certain that every NFL GM will be thinking the same way and will begin their strategies in earnest as to what their organizations would be willing to give up to have Watson in their uniform if he’s needed.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Not in the case of the claimed extortion.

The Interstate claim was that Watson brought one of the "hookers" from Atlanta.


It was reported that the attorney who made the settlement offer was Buzbee for one of the plaintiffs here in Houston. (not interstate , no federal jurisdiction).


Again , it's not illegal for an attorney to make settlement offers on behalf of their clients , if it were , every last attorney on the planet would be guilty of that ....


The federal jurisdiction here is use of the internet to procure / communicate with his victims which falls under the jurisdiction of the US DOJ and the FBI.
Wait, hooker or licensed masseuse? Is this said “hooker” 1 of the 22 victims? Unless there’s absolute evidence of Watson referencing this woman as a hooker and asking her what her services would set him back financially…..then it could be a nothing burger. If Watson states that he was flying his masseuse in to help him loosen up, then who could state otherwise except for the accuser. It creates the old “he said-she said” scenario.
 

amazing80

Fire Easterby
Probably not realistic, but another team that could take the gamble on Watson even if it means only the year, would be Pits. Big Ben is so inconsistent this year. Makes a bomb throw then can't make easy wide-open throws. He is not the future, they have no one in the wings, but they have a legit SB contending roster. Watson could easily elavate them to legit contenders this year.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Wrong.

The FBI is investigating internet crimes against Watson.

Extortion is a state level offense.
(4) Sexual Assault Suits Against Watson | Page 157 | Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com
I'm telling you what I know to be absolute fact - Those claims by Hardin are false.

Tell me why the FBI would bother to indulge in something they have no jurisdiction over ? (A state level offense).

You of all people should be able to see thru that .... jurisdiction local / state / federal.
Even if extortion is a state level offense, the FBI will investigate extortion if the state and local authorities did not file their own extortion investigation. To our knowledge, neither HPD or HCSO started an extortion investigation. So, Hardin could be telling the truth, half truth or lying. None of us can make that determination. Just know, regardless of jurisdiction, the FBI can investigate extortion.

Out of curiosity. What are the internet crimes against Watson? These players and entertainers hire and fly barbers, makeup artists, hair dressers, chefs, masseuses, personal trainers and other people from all over the country. IF he claims he hired an out of state masseuse, paid her travel expenses without any explicit mention of sex or agreement to sex. Is the masseuse going to incriminate herself by saying she traveled to Houston to provide sexual services? So, if Watson never explicitly asked for sex, what is the crime to investigate? Even in some of the civil cases, it was mentioned that he did not pay extra for his alleged shenanigans.

So again, if he is not explicitly asking for sex and is using body language, flirting, humping air, exposing himself or whatever the hell was going through his mind to let them know he was okay with going beyond just a massage, what would be the evidence to investigate? What if he claims it was an innocent request until he got aroused during the massage? My point is the FBI could just as easily be investigating the accuser who directly contacted Watson's agents for $30K as the internet crimes you are referring to. WE don't know and cannot say one way or the other.

1633299999609.png
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That’s all us anti-lyncher’s have been saying……let the trial or his day in court determine his innocence or guilt. If guilty, let the court hand down their punishment and everyone can move on with their lives. If he’s innocent, then he’s an innocent of ALL charges regardless of your personal feelings. I’m fairly certain that every NFL GM will be thinking the same way and will begin their strategies in earnest as to what their organizations would be willing to give up to have Watson in their uniform if he’s needed.
Everybody knows how I feel on this topic, after this post I'm going to be taking a break from this thread for awhile.

Know this if the 3rd string QB beats the rap that a perv is going to perv and when he gets off, you can expect his name to come up in this conversation again. In short a perv is gonna perv.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Everybody knows how I feel on this topic, after this post I'm going to be taking a break from this thread for awhile.

Know this if the 3rd string QB beats the rap that a perv is going to perv and when he gets off, you can expect his name to come up in this conversation again. In short a perv is gonna perv.
Like a moth to a flame or a fly to a dumpster. I'll have to wait to see this. You said this thread. You didn't say anything about not bringing it up in another thread.🤣
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Even if extortion is a state level offense, the FBI will investigate extortion if the state and local authorities did not file their own extortion investigation. To our knowledge, neither HPD or HCSO started an extortion investigation. So, Hardin could be telling the truth, half truth or lying. None of us can make that determination. Just know, regardless of jurisdiction, the FBI can investigate extortion.

Out of curiosity. What are the internet crimes against Watson? These players and entertainers hire and fly barbers, makeup artists, hair dressers, chefs, masseuses, personal trainers and other people from all over the country. IF he claims he hired an out of state masseuse, paid her travel expenses without any explicit mention of sex or agreement to sex. Is the masseuse going to incriminate herself by saying she traveled to Houston to provide sexual services? So, if Watson never explicitly asked for sex, what is the crime to investigate? Even in some of the civil cases, it was mentioned that he did not pay extra for his alleged shenanigans.

So again, if he is not explicitly asking for sex and is using body language, flirting, humping air, exposing himself or whatever the hell was going through his mind to let them know he was okay with going beyond just a massage, what would be the evidence to investigate? What if he claims it was an innocent request until he got aroused during the massage? My point is the FBI could just as easily be investigating the accuser who directly contacted Watson's agents for $30K as the internet crimes you are referring to. WE don't know and cannot say one way or the other.

View attachment 9130
It would probably be a good idea to actually read Classification 9 in its entirety.:

**************************************************************************************
Classification 9: Extortion

This classification was established for investigations involving the use of mail or other means of interstate commerce to:


  1. Demand ransom for a kidnapped person
    or
  2. Threaten to kidnap or inure any person
    or
  3. Demand money based on threats to injure someone
The FBI, however, will not investigate a case if a state or local law enforcement agency has entered it. The Post Office handles cases involving the mailing of threats to reveal information in order to harm the recipient's reputation. However, the FBI handles cases where money is demanded under threat of informing or as a consideration for not informing against someone who allegedly has violated Federal law.


Until the 1960s there were many extortion cases involving labor disputes and racial situations. Beginning in 1970 an increasing number of extortion cases involving public officials and business, particularly banks and airlines were opened. Extortion attempts directed against banks and airlines are generally prosecuted under the Hobbs Act and, therefore, classifications 192 or 193 are used when the FBI investigates.
 

Earl34

All Pro
It would probably be a good idea to actually read Classification 9 in its entirety.:

**************************************************************************************
Classification 9: Extortion

This classification was established for investigations involving the use of mail or other means of interstate commerce to:


  1. Demand ransom for a kidnapped person
    or
  2. Threaten to kidnap or inure any person
    or
  3. Demand money based on threats to injure someone
The FBI, however, will not investigate a case if a state or local law enforcement agency has entered it. The Post Office handles cases involving the mailing of threats to reveal information in order to harm the recipient's reputation. However, the FBI handles cases where money is demanded under threat of informing or as a consideration for not informing against someone who allegedly has violated Federal law.


Until the 1960s there were many extortion cases involving labor disputes and racial situations. Beginning in 1970 an increasing number of extortion cases involving public officials and business, particularly banks and airlines were opened. Extortion attempts directed against banks and airlines are generally prosecuted under the Hobbs Act and, therefore, classifications 192 or 193 are used when the FBI investigates.
So, when the FBI arrested a mayor for extorting cash from a tow truck company, where does it fall under your definition?

Pine Lawn Mayor Arrested On Charges Of Extortion | USAO-EDMO | Department of Justice
 
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Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Wait, hooker or licensed masseuse? Is this said “hooker” 1 of the 22 victims? Unless there’s absolute evidence of Watson referencing this woman as a hooker and asking her what her services would set him back financially…..then it could be a nothing burger. If Watson states that he was flying his masseuse in to help him loosen up, then who could state otherwise except for the accuser. It creates the old “he said-she said” scenario.

The use of the word "Hooker" was used in jest .... the woman was licensed masseuse , I thought that was pretty obvious. Maybe I should go edit it and put a sarcasm thingy in there.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
WE don't know and cannot say one way or the other.

We do know.

If you'd listen to the people who do instead of argue .... but what if , but this , but that.


This isn't some hot take / opinion , its facts as they have been given to me.


I get questioning the information , but damn at some point you have to realize that the information given has some merit when it has yet to be wrong and is more often than not backed up by later reports thru the media.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
So, when the FBI arrested a mayor for extorting cash from a tow truck company, where does it fall under your definition?

Pine Lawn Mayor Arrested On Charges Of Extortion | USAO-EDMO | Department of Justice
It involves public official corruption and a business.

*******************************************************************************



Official websites use .gov
A .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States.

WHAT WE INVESTIGATE https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/public-corruption

Public Corruption

Public corruption, the FBI’s top criminal investigative priority, poses a fundamental threat to our national security and way of life. It can affect everything from how well our borders are secured and our neighborhoods protected to how verdicts are handed down in courts to how public infrastructure such as roads and schools are built. It also takes a significant toll on the public’s pocketbooks by siphoning off tax dollars—it is estimated that public corruption costs the U.S. government and the public billions of dollars each year. The FBI is uniquely situated to combat corruption, with the skills and capabilities to run complex undercover operations and surveillance.

Overview

The Bureau’s Public Corruption program focuses on:
  • Investigating violations of federal law by public officials at the federal, state, and local levels of government
 

djohn2oo8

Veteran
We do know.

If you'd listen to the people who do instead of argue .... but what if , but this , but that.


This isn't some hot take / opinion , its facts as they have been given to me.


I get questioning the information , but damn at some point you have to realize that the information given has some merit when it has yet to be wrong and is more often than not backed up by later reports thru the media.
They think physical evidence becomes public. Which it does not
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
HC and GM won't be In Miami without DW next year so picks and trade players will not help. DW with no play book better than now.

As Ws come most fans may complain but I imagine that will dim with each win. Ross knows where season is headed even if he doesn't know where DW is headed. There's one way out. No franchise QB at 1.27 if anywhere 22 draft. Rodgers in off season? Why would he go there. Ross Green light it and deal with fall out if and when it falls out.
 

djohn2oo8

Veteran
HC and GM won't be In Miami without DW next year so picks and trade players will not help. DW with no play book better than now.

As Ws come most fans may complain but I imagine that will dim with each win. Ross knows where season is headed even if he doesn't know where DW is headed. There's one way out. No franchise QB at 1.27 if anywhere 22 draft. Rodgers in off season? Why would he go there. Ross Green light it and deal with fall out if and when it falls out.
He won’t. He has until November to do it and the fallout would be far too much.
 

cbs1507

Waterboy
Well technically I suppose it is better to have only raped one woman than 20+ but that really doesn’t seem like the kind of argument you want to make.
That's not the point. They are riding on the larger number to sway the jury. If any are proven to be liars, then it will cast reasonable doubt on the rest. So unless those others have proof of their claims, then you couldn't even say this.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
For those that want accusations alone to stand up in court and find Watson guilty, then ask yourself this; If there was no in between would you be willing to have him sentenced to death based on these accusations?

Accusations just cannot be taken at face value at all times. I think most have heard about the young 18 year old HS football star (Brian Banks) who was accused of raping a younger girl (Wanetta Gibson). He was found guilty based solely on her accusation, then missed his opportunity to play at USC, and was sent to prison for 6 years…..only to have the young lady step forward 5 years later and state that she had lied about the rape. He was finally released but the lost time was something he’d never get back nor what he was forced to survive and see while in prison at his age.

By the way, Wanetta Gibson and her mom pocketed a 1.5M dollar settlement from the school district they sued and she’s living life as if she had done nothing wrong.

I’m not trying to paint Watson as a saint nor am I going to be gullible enough to paint all the accusers as angels. This is why I’m going to wait on a court decision…..my immediate decision of guilt or innocence on this situation is pointless.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
For those that want accusations alone to stand up in court and find Watson guilty,
You're putting your head in the sand if you believe there are only accusations.

SI did, I think, three great stories that went beyond the accusations that imo demonstrate there is something nefarious going on here. The only question is whether we're talking about improper conduct or sexual assault.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
You're putting your head in the sand if you believe there are only accusations.

SI did, I think, three great stories that went beyond the accusations that imo demonstrate there is something nefarious going on here. The only question is whether we're talking about improper conduct or sexual assault.
…..didn’t put my head in the sand, simply stated that I would let the judicial system do its job and listed an example of an accusation going way wrong. I agree that they will have to figure out if it’s improper conduct or sexual assault but that happens when he’s found guilty…..still hasn’t happened as of today, Wednesday 13OCT21.

I still think there are questions in regards to seeking money before filing criminal charges. I believe 20 of the 22 were in on the concept of a financial settlement but when that was refused by Watson and Hardin only 8 (2 already had) of the 22 stepped forward to file criminal charges. Like I stated, Watson isn’t a saint and all 22 accusers aren’t angels. Some of the accusers may not want the true nature of their Instagram business discussed in an open courtroom. In Hardin’s eyes, if a few of these accusers break rank…..then the whole case may move onto shaky ground since everything is based on a “she said-he said” testimony and no physical evidence.

The good, there will be no gray area when the verdict is reached…..Watson will either be guilty or innocent.
 
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amazing80

Fire Easterby
Like Cosby or OJ?

My point is there is more than accusations. There’s a lot of corroborating testimony. The question isn’t if he’s guilty, it’s what is he guilty of.
Maybe. But I think its fair to say the only ones giving their version of what happened are the accusers. Watson's team has said very little outside of consensual sex.
 


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