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Seth Payne

I would like that plan as well, but ten teams, or nearly one third of the league, now use the 3-4 in some form

Pittsburgh
Atlanta
New England
Oakland
San Diego
Houston
Baltimore
Dallas
San Francisco
the New York Jets
New Orleans

It would be very hard for us to get him (Ngata) considering he may be too high at our #13 pick and may be gone by our 2nd round #14 pick.
 
SESupergenius said:
I would like that plan as well, but ten teams, or nearly one third of the league, now use the 3-4 in some form

Pittsburgh
Atlanta
New England
Oakland
San Diego
Houston
Baltimore
Dallas
San Francisco
the New York Jets
New Orleans

It would be very hard for us to get him (Ngata) considering he may be too high at our #13 pick and may be gone by our 2nd round #14 pick.
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Atlanta, Dallas, San Fran, NY Jets, and New Orleans don't use the 3-4
 
Hovan is listed at about 298 right now. He was up to 308 before losing his starting spot, reportedly due to his inability to sleep because of the demotion. But he has done things to get himself back on track. He's no savior by any means, but well worth a look at considering he may be on the low end of what we need.
 
trading down is a possibility for Ngata. But he is being listed as a mid second round pick by most.. so unless his stock rises, or alot of teams decide they want a DT.. its possible he could be there at our #2
 
We'll have to see how is combine is. From what I've been seeing he is hot on the radar, not just for 3-4 teams, but 4-3 as well. I think his stock might rise a bit, could be a 1st rounder.
 
STEEL BLUE TEXANS said:
Haloti will slip to the second round because he is still recovering from a major knee injury.
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Have you any clue at all????? Where do you get your information from? Come one now, he played the whole year with the Ducks. He finished the season with 46 tackles, 8.5 of those for a loss and he had 3.5 sacks. Have you even seen him play?

The biggest question is whether or not he will even be interested in playing in the NFL yet. He still thinks he has a ways to go before he is on the NFL level and may stay at Oregon to pursue his degree.
 
With Hovan, you are paying for a name and not a player. He is one of the most overrated players in the NFL. The last thing this team needs is another overpaid defensive lineman.
 
STEEL BLUE TEXANS said:
And who are you to question if someone else has a clue? You think Chris Hovan would make a great NT. lmao
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Great???? Who said he'd be a Great NT? Try again. I said if he was cheap he we should look at him. LMAO. So to answer you question, he could be a good addition if he has his head back in the game and comes a rather cheap price. Simple really.
 
So would Jerry Deloach and an a Seth Payne that couldn't recover from his injuries. Way to go smart a**
 
Seth Payne has recovered from his knee injury. If anything, his knee will be even better next year since most players take two years to completely heal from an ACL.

As was mentioned earlier, his current injury is the same one that Gary Walker had before his Pro Bowl season in the Texans first year. Walker was able to recover from that injury well enough to have a great year no one in their right mind should doubt Payne's commitment to rehab.

Those who say that Payne has been injured his entire stint with the Texans are full of garbage. Payne was healthy his first year with the Texans. He had a major knee injury early in his second year. His third year he recovered as well as can be expected and by the end of the season he was back to being a very effective nose tackle. Seth Payne is not a major risk.

I would not hesitate to re-sign Payne. I would also draft Payne's eventual replacement using one of the four first day picks the Texans have. During the 2005 season the rookie would rotate with Payne to insure that we always have a fresh NT in the game while getting some on-the-job-training. AFter a year or two of rotating, the new NT should be ready to take over.
 
I'll take that gameplan. Do you let Deloach go then? What if Payne doesn't recover?
 
SESupergenius said:
So would Jerry Deloach and an a Seth Payne that couldn't recover from his injuries. Way to go smart a**
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I never said I wanted Jerry Deloach or Seth Payne to start at NT for us next season. I have been wanting to find a replacement for Payne since last years' draft. I was hoping Gabe Watson would enter the draft this year, but since he is not, Ngata is the guy I hope the Texans target with their second round pick. By the way, no need to remind me that I'm a smart ***. I've known that for awhile. :loser

:bguitar:
 
So you would start a rookie over a healthy Payne? Classic.
 
SESupergenius said:
I'll take that gameplan. Do you let Deloach go then? What if Payne doesn't recover?
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Actually, I would probably keep Deloach as a versatile backup. Cory Sears and Junior Ioane are both (as well as Deloach) free agents, so I would make a decision between the two of them. Ioane is younger (27 versus 31) so he would be more likely to return, although drafting a second defensive lineman or getting another veteran backup through free agency isn't out of the question.
 
I would not hesitate to re-sign Payne
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If the surgery goes well, the Texans won't hesitate to sign Payne either. Payne's injury may actually be a 'blessing' in disguise (if he fully recovers of course). It may scare other teams away and keep his price down a bit.
 
Oh they will be very scared to touch that one. But don't count your blessings so soon, he still has to recover from this so there is no guarantees. It would be very much in the favor of the Texans if he recovers well and is not sought out by other teams. I had a feeling he would have signed with us regardless before the injury no matter how much more another team offered. We still need a contigency plan.
 
A Viking season ticket holder's take on Hovan:

"Hovan is an unrestricted free agent... and I would say it is about 95% certain he will not resign with the Vikings (he has already put his home up for sale). Over the past couple years he has struggled considerably, to the point of being almost non-existent. His excuse for that was he was constantly doubled teamed - well game tapes have disproven this to a large degree. If I understand correctly, a nose in the 3-4 typically the a big stout run stuffing guy?? That is not Hovan. He is probably best suited for the 4-3. Coming out of college he was considered a poor-man's Johnny Randle. If only he could have lived up to that. It's a cliche, but he is one of those who needs a change of scenery, and he may become servicable once again."
 
aj. said:
A Viking season ticket holder's take on Hovan:

"Hovan is an unrestricted free agent... and I would say it is about 95% certain he will not resign with the Vikings (he has already put his home up for sale). Over the past couple years he has struggled considerably, to the point of being almost non-existent. His excuse for that was he was constantly doubled teamed - well game tapes have disproven this to a large degree. If I understand correctly, a nose in the 3-4 typically the a big stout run stuffing guy?? That is not Hovan. He is probably best suited for the 4-3. Coming out of college he was considered a poor-man's Johnny Randle. If only he could have lived up to that. It's a cliche, but he is one of those who needs a change of scenery, and he may become servicable once again."
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Thank you. This is why I would never want to see Hovan playing NT for us. It would be a waste of cap space.
 
aj. said:
A Viking season ticket holder's take on Hovan:

" It's a cliche, but he is one of those who needs a change of scenery, and he may become servicable once again."
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That's all I'm saying, he could be servicable again. It's just not going to happen in Minnesota. Anyone can go to a website and look for fodder to support their argument.

Here is quote from the Vikings message boards

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:19 pm Post subject: A Positive... Reply with quote
When Hovan was in the game- he looked pretty good...


I saw a few QB's hurries and tackles.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:40 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
He definitely looked better than he did before he was benched. Unfortunately, I don't think there is time enough in the season for him to make enough impact to justify keeping him. Hope I am wrong, though!

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If he comes cheap enough I would take a stab at him. I'd give him a chance considering the lot of FA DT's available that can play the NT and lack of NT depth in the rookie pool. If N'gata doesn't declare then that lessens it even more. Pat Williams is our best prospect to fill the NT but he will undoubtedly be too hight a price. So what are we left with?

Lets take a good look at him vs. Packers if he comes in.
 
How about this for a spin on what Ses is saying: IF Hovan's stock has dropped to rock bottom and he can be signed very cheaply then he certainly would be as good as Ioane/Sears as backups and has an upside neither has ever displayed. Heck put him in on obvious passing downs at DE. Odds are at least 50/50 a change of scenery will help him.
 
What makes you think he will come cheap? He has always been one of the better known DTs even if he is overrated. There will be a team out there willing to overpay for him just because of the hype he brings.
 
Now you have to admit he is probably better than Sears and Ioane. The Vikings used a 3-4 scheme a few times this year here a quote of a fan from one of the message boards. In this instance he was used as and end in the 3-4, so it's not like he's unfamiliar with the scheme:

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:25 pm Post subject: Hovan Encouraging Reply with quote
You just knew that after today's game I would have to post about Chris Hovan. He played a very good game today. Was it just me or was he rotating all over the line? Were the coaches looking for positive matchups for him to give him a better chance to make plays?

In any case, I don't think he has turned the corner or anything, but you have to admit he showed some of the reasons the Vikings picked him in the first place today. If he keeps making positive strides, we will hopefully still have him as a solid member of the DL next season.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:33 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it was brillant the way Cedric used Chris as an outside end in their 3-4 package today, which they ran more than in the past 5 games.

Great job and hustle from the Bulldog today! Keep it up! Wink
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Anyone can go to a website and look for fodder to support their argument.
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And you proved just that.

But not everyone has a family member who lives in Minneapolis that has seen every game Hovan has played. That's the season ticket holder who sent me the information I posted. He is a trusted source to me as opposed to random message board ramblings.

I'm of the opinion that Hovan would be a bit out of his element at NT for the Texans.

I'm hoping Payne comes back healthy and either Sears or DeLoach and Ioane is re-signed for a year as depth. I could see them drafting two DLs to groom. They already have beaucoup $$$ tied up in the DL and they probably aren't going to spend a whole lot on a FA to fill in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesupergenius

Great???? Who said he'd be a Great NT? Try again. I said if he was cheap he we should look at him. LMAO.
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Actually what you said is that you felt he (Hovan) would be an "excellent" NT.
 
I think someone mentioned this already but how about Pat Williams from the Bills? I just read an article that said the Bills might have trouble signing their free agents.

LINK


(January 6, 2005) — ORCHARD PARK — The abrupt ending to the Buffalo Bills season Sunday with a 29-24 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers was especially difficult to take for Pat Williams and Jonas Jennings.

Not only was it the final game of Buffalo's best season in five years, it may have been their final games as Bills.

Williams and Jennings are unrestricted free agents, the only starters on the Bills' relatively short list of players eligible to switch teams starting March 2.

"It feels hard now. I didn't know if it was going to be my last game here," Williams said. "I hope it wasn't."

If it was, Williams certainly went out in style. The eight-year veteran, who joined the Bills as a rookie free agent in 1997 under Marv Levy and improved every season since, made 12 tackles and a sack against the Steelers. Four of his tackles were behind the line of scrimmage, good for minus-17 yards.

For Williams, 32, it amounted to an audition for his old employer — and anybody else who may be interested in a premier run stuffer (474 career tackles) who also can get after the quarterback (13 sacks).
 
aj. said:
And you proved just that.
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Yes I did, do you want me go out and find two season ticket holders where one thinks Carr is great and one that thinks Carr is bad? My point is I can find two sides to the same story.

aj. said:
He is a trusted source to me as opposed to random message board ramblings.
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Gee, you mean like the stuff you doing right now? :listening Yours doesn't make it anymore 'valid" at this point. You are on a message board just as I am. Pompus.


aj. said:
Actually what you said is that you felt he (Hovan) would be an "excellent" NT.
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He would be an excellent pick if he came cheap. Nice try, but at least try and get the whole picture of what I am talking about. IF HE CAME CHEAP. There now maybe you can handle that. He would be better than any backup we have.
 
What's too bad is that you bring good stuff to the table from time to time but often ruin it with your childish rants and name calling as the debate evolves in ways that you don't agree. Carry on.
 
aj. said:
What's too bad is that you bring good stuff to the table from time to time but often ruin it with your childish rants and name calling as the debate evolves in ways that you don't agree. Carry on.
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Like I really care. You bring some childish Pompous jabs about how you have the "inside" track on viewpoints. Just like we are supposed to drop down and kiss your feet because you have a so called 'relative' who attends Vikings games. We are supposed to take that as Gospel. That just reminds of the kid with basketball, its his ball and his rules and nobody is supposed to say anything. So really you are as guilty as you accuse me. Your not that squeaky clean.

Now on to the topic and enough of this.

I'm afraid Mr. Williams will be a bit expensive. If Buffalo won't be able resign him I don't we could either. But then again we threw out big money to Robaire and Walker.

And Steel Blue, how much do you think Hovan will be going for?
 
Actually it's a nephew and he's been a Vikes season ticket holder for about 6 years. He's a pretty smart football head and I respect his opinions and I just thought I'd share. Anger management or decaf might be an option. Insult away if you must. It humors me but it takes away from the subject at hand.

Why is anyone talking about Pat Williams? Like we need another old DL.
 
ok well thanks for info on your nephew, I really cherish that knowledge. Your being a bit pretentious especially when you dart of that I need anger management or decaf then hypocritically infer that you are above it all in your very next statement of "Insult away if you must." ZZZZZZ

Robaire Smith is 27, I don't consider that old, he was 26 when we acquired him. The youthness montra is a little overrated. Williams is 32. I've seen DT's well over that that still bring fairly well. Pat Williams had decent year last year and is big enough to play a NT in the 3-4, I see nothing wrong with signing him other than a hefty price tag considering out options when Payne would be a big "if"
 
STEEL BLUE TEXANS said:
Somewhere around the amount Robaire Smith, Cornelius Griffin and Rod Coleman each went for. Possibly more than that.
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If Hovan is not good then why do you think he would be getting Robaire, Griffin or Coleman type money? :hmmm:
 
Because there are always teams willing to overpay players with marginal talent. Especially for supposed "big name" players who are living off past reputation. It also helps that this year's free agent pool of DTs is not very good.
 
Hovan signed a 5 year $5 million contract with a $3 million signing bonus. Smith signed a contract for 6 years worth $26.3 million with a $8.35 million signing bonus. Thats roughly $5,775,000 a year. Walker signed a $36 million including an upfront sum of $11 million. Roughly $7,833,333 a year

I doubt very seriously Hovan will command that kind of money. Kendrick Clancy of the Steelers tested the FA market last year and got a 1 year deal for $605,000. Brandon Noble got a four-year, $7 million contract from the Redskins last year as well. The closest comparision in my opinion to the contract Hovan would get this year is that of the Brian Youngs contract of last year where he went from St Louis to the Saints for 4 years totaling $10 million with a $4 million dollar bonus. Roughly $3,500,000 a year.
I think the play of Hovan over that year or so reflects Brian Youngs contribution and stature, thus I feel he won't be paid near what the Robaire and others got.
 
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