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Sellout for Deshaun Watson

If finding a franchise QB is so easy, according to some here, then why doesn't every team have one? Every year there's a QB that's a can't miss prospect. Inevitably he gets drafted and fails. Yes some fall into better situations than others but if he's a can't miss then he should be able to take crappy franchises and make them competitive. It's exhausting reading the same **** over and over on here. They took a chance last year and it didn't work out how we wanted. Lets build the rest of the team and press on. We suck at QB evaluations so fortify the damn OL and let's get playmakers at RB and run the damn ball. Run...to set up the pass. What a concept! Especially when you don't have an alltime great QB.
 
Corrosion said:
We hear this same shtick every damn year .... draft after draft.

If this team doesn't find a quarterback , nothing else matters. The defense could play up to the standard of the 85 Bears and ....we'd still watch them get sent home from New England.



That OL was good enough to help the team to 9-7 and the second round of the playoffs with the worst quarterback play in the NFL.

How would they have looked with a competent quarterback under center ?!
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It didn't happen, but I can't help but think we'd all look at Brock differently had Fiedorowitcz or Fuller not dropped those sure TDs Osweiler threw. Throwing 4 TDs in the div round points to the potential O'b saw in him when he decided to go after him.

That's not to say the QB position shouldn't be addressed in the draft. My main point is that even if we were able to trade into the top 5 & have our pick of this year's crop, I'm seriously concerned we do not have the staff to develop him.
 
JB said:
I'd really like Garappolo, failing that then add a QB every year until we find one... much like Cleveland.
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People keep saying this.

I think a team that does that... like Cleveland don't know what the hell they're doing. It's one thing to miss on a guy every 4 to 6 years, but if you're drafting one bum after another, year after year... then you've got talent evaluation issues, you have coaching issues.

You're either teaching a team to win, or you're teaching a QB to play. It's hard enough to win in this league without holding the team back every year trying to teach a QB how to play.

Don't get me wrong. I believe we are in a position where the team "knows how to win" & can afford a year or two teaching a QB how to play.

I'm just saying not all teams are in that position. Cleveland is definitely not in that position.

But a team that knows what they're doing should be able to get Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, Ryan Tannehill production out of a QB as their team learns to win. The main problem I see is that teams think they owe it to those guys to try to win a championship with them. Just like I think we reached our limit with Schaub, you have to know when it's time to move on.
 
thunderkyss said:
Just like I think we reached our limit with Schaub, you have to know when it's time to move on.
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How do we possibly know this? He got injured before the playoffs where a backup got one win. Whose to say how far healthy Schaub would have gone? There was no healthy Schaub after that.
 
Corrosion said:
Kelly doesn't just have an edge .... he's acts like he's entitled and a sh!thead.

It's one thing to have an edge , its another to be a total jackass ....


That said , this is about winning football games and you gotta have talent to do that , Kelly definitely has talent .... I'd might take a shot on with him but not before the 5th round.

Hell he didn't get an invite to the combine , he might go undrafted.
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If winning is all you care about then you draft Kelly.

I see Kelly going to Buffalo. They interviewed him at the Sr. Bowl.
 
infantrycak said:
How do we possibly know this? He got injured before the playoffs where a backup got one win. Whose to say how far healthy Schaub would have gone? There was no healthy Schaub after that.
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After Schaub's foot injury they should've known to move on.

Not hindsight, our very own CND said as much at the time.

In typical Texans form it took a record breaking number of pick 6's to get them to move on and even then they did it kicking and screaming. Sad to think about the QB's they passed on hoping Matt Schaub could be the 2009 Matt Schaub again.

# Too traumatic
 
PapaL said:
If finding a franchise QB is so easy, according to some here, then why doesn't every team have one? Every year there's a QB that's a can't miss prospect. Inevitably he gets drafted and fails. Yes some fall into better situations than others but if he's a can't miss then he should be able to take crappy franchises and make them competitive. It's exhausting reading the same **** over and over on here. They took a chance last year and it didn't work out how we wanted. Lets build the rest of the team and press on. We suck at QB evaluations so fortify the damn OL and let's get playmakers at RB and run the damn ball. Run...to set up the pass. What a concept! Especially when you don't have an alltime great QB.
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Yah, but they failed at evaluating the O-line position, too.

They could have gone for Alex Mack, or try to retain Brandon Brooks and/ or Ben Jones.

Osweiler, Allen and Bergstrom, grrr.

They should have kept Hoyer and take a flyer on Paxton Lynch.
 
infantrycak said:
How do we possibly know this? He got injured before the playoffs where a backup got one win. Whose to say how far healthy Schaub would have gone? There was no healthy Schaub after that.
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I could have sworn even you advocated drafting a QB after that play off run. I don't know how you knew... but something along those lines.
 
beerlover said:
Should we revisit previous drafts & list QB's Texans have passed on too:rake:
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With hindsight, Aaron Rodgers is the only one that gives me heartburn. At the time, I understood. We were still on our Schaub honeymoon. Which is why I say, in hindsight.

Would have been nice if Mariotta would have left school a year early, but he didn't so I don't count him as one the Texans passed on.
 
steelbtexan said:
If you think Kelly is a winner.

If winning is all you care about then you draft Kelly.

I see Kelly going to Buffalo. They interviewed him at the Sr. Bowl.
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FiFY. Not everyone thinks as highly as you do of the Kelly kid.
 
thunderkyss said:
I could have sworn even you advocated drafting a QB after that play off run. I don't know how you knew... but something along those lines.
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After the injury sure. I was simply saying we have no idea how far Schaub could have taken is but for Fat Al.
 
infantrycak said:
After the injury sure. I was simply saying we have no idea how far Schaub could have taken is but for Fat Al.
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Absolutely. I was not one of those advocating replacing Schaub before the injury.

But along those lines. If I'm the Bengals, if I'm KC, if I'm Miami, I'm keeping my eye out for someone to replace what I got. I'm not going to just grab "any" QB in the first round, but I'll be collecting assets to move up to where I need to move up if I see someone I think is "special."
 
thunderkyss said:
Absolutely. I was not one of those advocating replacing Schaub before the injury.

But along those lines. If I'm the Bengals, if I'm KC, if I'm Miami, I'm keeping my eye out for someone to replace what I got. I'm not going to just grab "any" QB in the first round, but I'll be collecting assets to move up to where I need to move up if I see someone I think is "special."
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I did want the Texans to draft a QB in 2012. There were 3 I liked (outside of the 1st round) and ironically one of them was Brock Osweiler. The other 2 were Nick Foles and Kirk Cousins. Didn't even think about drafting Russell Wilson, I thought he was too short.
 
No matter what QB we go after via draft or free agency, we better spend money on the offensive line. There are quite a few good free agent linemen we could lure here.


As for Watson, the kid is athletic, smart, very accurate on short and medium routes. He was a consistently high 60s % completion each year he started, great TD to INT ratios (he can improve on protecting the ball, but every rookie can improve on something). His ability to hit his back foot and throw a laser is exactly what this offense needs.
 
Had we not gone after Brock last year, any chance we're backing up the Brinks truck at Kirk Cousins house this year?
 
Corrosion said:
We hear this same shtick every damn year .... draft after draft.

If this team doesn't find a quarterback , nothing else matters. The defense could play up to the standard of the 85 Bears and ....we'd still watch them get sent home from New England.
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While I agree with the necessity for a signal caller and I can't speak for what was said about other draft classes, this year really is the year. The db's and TE's are the best of the last ten years or so, the running backs and edge rushing classes are deep. This year is chock full of athletic freaks. There were more 11ft broad jumps this year than the last 4 years combined. The DB's are full of size/speed/length freaks. There were 14 cbs and 15 safties with 32 inch or longer arms. There were 16 db's over 6-0 that ran 4.49 or less. In the last two years only 4 TE's tested had athletic profiles in the 70 percentile, this year you had 7, with 4 guys in the 93rd or higher. This is a very good year to add pieces on the cheap and considering the QB class its not the year to trade up because the premium this year is much higher.
 
I'm not sure what you guys really see in Deshawn Watson, he looks like our current QB - athletic, poor field vision and decisions, he's RG3 all over again.. He doesn't have superstar speed but if he runs and gets contact he's going to not last long..

In short we are stuck with our QB one more year, shore up the OL to help with the running game, pick up another LB and safety. Build upon what we lacked last year but if we can't find a QB then roll with what we have.
 
badboy said:
I enjoyed watching Watson play college ball but not convinced he or any other of this crop can translate to NFL. He took a beating in 2016 and his 17 INTs and 17 sacks are worrisome.
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I have to ask this: What did you think of Prescott this time last year? Which of last year's crop did you think would "translate to NFL"?
 
PapaL said:
Had we not gone after Brock last year, any chance we're backing up the Brinks truck at Kirk Cousins house this year?
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I was for going after Cousins myself until Washington finally got off their butts and franchised him. And they used the "no, you can't talk to him" tag too. Pissed me off.
jradMIT said:
While I agree with the necessity for a signal caller and I can't speak for what was said about other draft classes, this year really is the year. The db's and TE's are the best of the last ten years or so, the running backs and edge rushing classes are deep. This year is chock full of athletic freaks. There were more 11ft broad jumps this year than the last 4 years combined. The DB's are full of size/speed/length freaks. There were 14 cbs and 15 safties with 32 inch or longer arms. There were 16 db's over 6-0 that ran 4.49 or less. In the last two years only 4 TE's tested had athletic profiles in the 70 percentile, this year you had 7, with 4 guys in the 93rd or higher. This is a very good year to add pieces on the cheap and considering the QB class its not the year to trade up because the premium this year is much higher.
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When you "plug in the tape" as Mayock would say, can they play football? Have those shorts & T-shirts numbers translated to tackles, interceptions, receptions, and TDs?

To be clear, I'm all in on your overall theme, which I take to be, grab as many studs as we can to fill holes and provide needed quality depth. It's just I put more stock in what they've accomplished on the field than what they do in the shorts & t-shirt olympics.
 
ObsiWan said:
I was for going after Cousins myself until Washington finally got off their butts and franchised him. And they used the "no, you can't talk to him" tag too. Pissed me off.
When you "plug in the tape" as Mayock would say, can they play football? Have those shorts & T-shirts numbers translated to tackles, interceptions, receptions, and TDs?

To be clear, I'm all in on your overall theme, which I take to be, grab as many studs as we can to fill holes and provide needed quality depth. It's just I put more stock in what they've accomplished on the field than what they do in the shorts & t-shirt olympics.
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To be clear my point is not that these guys are only work out warriors, but that the work outs confirmed that these guys have huge potential. It was already known that the Db's and TE's this year were going to be memorable, but the way those two groups blew away the combine, I don't think anyone saw that coming. There are multiple pieces of the picture, production is the biggest of them, but athletic measurables are still significant. I think we can all agree that college production is not always translatable to the pros and vice versa.
 
ObsiWan said:
I have to ask this: What did you think of Prescott this time last year? Which of last year's crop did you think would "translate to NFL"?
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Jerry Jones didn't think Dak was going to be the player he turned out to be. He lamented that he couldn't draft Paxton Lynch because Seattle wanted too much to trade the 25th pick to Dallas. So they "settled" for Dak and tried to trade for Josh McCown and then Foles to back up Romo.

That's the draft, though. Sometimes a team "accidentally" picks a winner. Houston wanted players other than Watt, namely Patrick Peterson but the asking price was too high. They then targeted Aldon Smith but the 49ers coveted him with the #7 pick. So Houston stood pat at 11 and drafted a gem.
 
banned1976 said:
Houston wanted players other than Watt, namely Patrick Peterson but the asking price was too high. They then targeted Aldon Smith but the 49ers coveted him with the #7 pick. So Houston stood pat at 11 and drafted a gem.
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Actually Houston had a deal worked out for #7 the whole time but Peterson got picked #6. They considered going through with the trade to take Smith and decided not to do it.
 
I liked Dak... wasn't my first choice - but I still thought they should draft him...

FuzzyLogic said:
I would still take Dak Prescott in the later rounds - I think he has it (gut feeling - seems like a high intangible, will have chip on shoulder, hard working kind of prospect).
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thunderkyss said:
FiFY. Not everyone thinks as highly as you do of the Kelly kid.
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I get that, but it shouldn't be because of his lack of talent or play.

I just want the best players on the team as possible. Kelly is one of those guys. Until they start taking the best players available then this team is going nowhere fast.

Do you not like Kelly's play, beating LSU/Alabama and playing really well in those games not enough for you? He was a leader of his team, they followed his lead.
 
steelbtexan said:
I get that, but it shouldn't be because of his lack of talent or play.

I just want the best players on the team as possible. Kelly is one of those guys. Until they start taking the best players available then this team is going nowhere fast.

Do you not like Kelly's play, beating LSU/Alabama and playing really well in those games not enough for you? He was a leader of his team, they followed his lead.
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There are 32 teams out there that do not share your opinion about Kelly's talent. He'd be considered a possible first rounder if they did, regardless what kind of head case he might be.

& your LSU/Alabama argument begs for a JFF comparison & we see how that worked out. Off field **** matters.
 
College stats can be spun any way you want it. Hell Cam Newton, Jameis Winston, Aaron Rodgers...none of those guys lit it up like crazy. All had things to improve, protecting the ball, inconsistency with footwork, blah blah blah

What matters is watching a kid throw and play. Can he drop back and quickly release the ball with a good amount of accuracy and on time. Can he scan the field for the most part and use his athleticism to his advantage, but not use it too much (ala RG3).

If you think the QB class varyies drastically from one year to the next, you haven't been paying attention. It's all about drafting a player that fits your scheme and hoping he figures it out at the next level. For every guy who has figured it out there are 10 that haven't. Its a crap shoot each year.

Watson is the most consistent for 2 seasons now, he won championships in a tough division with HIS ARM, not his legs like Tebow did.

He has all the tools you look for, the body of work to prove he is consistent and the drive to succeed. Pull the trigger
 
What was the name of that all-world QB that everyone wanted to trade up for last year that ended up being nothing but a 3rd string clipboard carrier for the Rams? Plum forgot his name.

But anyways . . um . . No.
 
Mollywhopper said:
So you're willing to completely sell out on a crap shoot?
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If you mean trading two 1's for Jimmy G, or trading up to say 11 for Mahomes then yes, if you consider that selling the farm. Two 1's for a top 10 QB is well worth it and I believe these 2 QB's have that kind of ability.
 
I'm calling it now. Tom Savage will be the Texan's starting QB next season. He's accurate, has a decent arm, quick release & makes good decisions. We just have to shore up the offensive line & protect him. I'm taking Cam Robinson in the first. If the coaches believe Allen's injuries were what caused him to be a disappointment last year & they feel he's healed well enough to return to his KC form, then I take another OT in the third round to groom for when Brown has to be moved inside. Does anyone know if "Q" will be ready to compete next year? Or, is he going to ever step on the field again?
 
Marcus said:
What was the name of that all-world QB that everyone wanted to trade up for last year that ended up being nothing but a 3rd string clipboard carrier for the Rams? Plum forgot his name.

But anyways . . um . . No.
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I know you're looking for instant gratification but the book on Goff hasn't even gotten thru the 1st chapter. He didn't even stand a chance with Fisher and that coaching staff. It takes a couple of yrs for most of these young guys to catch up to the speed of the game. I'm for drafting Mahomes but it is going to take him a yr or 2 to catch up.

Not every QB falls into a situation like Dak did. Most have a Matt Ryan career path.
 
Obviously, as we've said in the past, a lot comes down to work habits and moxy under pressure or in stressful situations. Watson checks those boxes from all the info we have. His coach raves about his work ethic and he's never had any off-field issues that would scare you. He beat tough teams, even after getting repeatedly punished in those games. If his interviews go as well as you would expect, I think he goes pretty early. You can't say if it's going to work out, but all signs point to him being targeted high in the draft.
 
steelbtexan said:
If you mean trading two 1's for Jimmy G, or trading up to say 11 for Mahomes then yes, if you consider that selling the farm. Two 1's for a top 10 QB is well worth it and I believe these 2 QB's have that kind of ability.
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Not what I meant. I was more referring to the crap shoot portion. You seem more confidant (and I'm not disagreeing with you) in those guys than crap shoot.
 
ObsiWan said:
I have to ask this: What did you think of Prescott this time last year? Which of last year's crop did you think would "translate to NFL"?
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I liked him as an accurate passer who would do well with good line but he needed to play behind a QB he could learn from. IIRC had him ranked in 4th.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Not what I meant. I was more referring to the crap shoot portion. You seem more confidant (and I'm not disagreeing with you) in those guys than crap shoot.
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I'm confident in my abilty to identify QB's.

Probably more Confident in my ability than Rick McNair is in his. But that's another story.

Let me call the next great QB in the 2018 draft Sam Darnold.

BTW, Tex is really good at identifying QB's. He called Wentz who I thought would be good, but now I think he can be great in a couple of yrs. He was good this yr until he hurt either his shoulder/arm. (Cant remember which one.)
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm confident in my abilty to identify QB's.

Probably more Confident in my ability than Rick McNair is in his. But that's another story.

Let me call the next great QB in the 2018 draft Sam Darnold.

BTW, Tex is really good at identifying QB's. He called Wentz who I thought would be good, but now I think he can be great in a couple of yrs. He was good this yr until he hurt either his shoulder/arm. (Cant remember which one.)
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Uhh, ok.
 
Mollywhopper said:
So you're willing to completely sell out on a crap shoot?
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I'm not willing to sell the farm for any of these guys , I'll take what falls to me which could be any of them ....I could see scenarios where Kizer , Watson or Mahomes are there at 25 .... I could also see scenarios where they , along with Trubisky are gone by 13 , in which case I'm looking to take Peterman.


For me , its either Mahomes at 25 or Peterman at 57.



TexansSeminole said:
Obviously, as we've said in the past, a lot comes down to work habits and moxy under pressure or in stressful situations. Watson checks those boxes from all the info we have. His coach raves about his work ethic and he's never had any off-field issues that would scare you. He beat tough teams, even after getting repeatedly punished in those games. If his interviews go as well as you would expect, I think he goes pretty early. You can't say if it's going to work out, but all signs point to him being targeted high in the draft.
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I expect Watson to be gone in the top 5 .... regardless of what I think of him.

Hottoddie said:
I'm calling it now. Tom Savage will be the Texan's starting QB next season. He's accurate, has a decent arm, quick release & makes good decisions. We just have to shore up the offensive line & protect him. I'm taking Cam Robinson in the first. If the coaches believe Allen's injuries were what caused him to be a disappointment last year & they feel he's healed well enough to return to his KC form, then I take another OT in the third round to groom for when Brown has to be moved inside. Does anyone know if "Q" will be ready to compete next year? Or, is he going to ever step on the field again?
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I hope not .... I don't know what people saw in Savage that made them believe he has the ability to lead a franchise. I saw JAG out there , JAG that was better than the other JAG they signed for 72million smackers. Its not like he came in and did anything different or better ..... basically the results were the same , let the defense do the heavy lifting and hope like hell your quarterback doesn't make a mistake that costs you the game.

If Mahomes (or one of the other top four quarterbacks) is not available at 25 , I'm with you on drafting Robinson there , assuming no premium talent.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Not sure on what. Your confidence?
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Are you confident in Ricky McNair being able to identify a franchise QB?

Would you given my/Tex track record at identifying a better chance at finding a franchise QB? If so, that's sad and speaks volumes. Mahomes is my guy in this draft, reminds me of Russell Wilson with the way he plays/poise/accuracy.
 
steelbtexan said:
Are you confident in Ricky McNair being able to identify a franchise QB?
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What's his ratio of franchise QB's drafted vs. how many he's been asked to identify/acquire?

Idk, and so I'm not too sure.

Would you given my/Tex track record at identifying a better chance at finding a franchise QB? If so, that's sad and speaks volumes.
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Uh, ok again.

Mahomes is my guy in this draft, reminds me of Russell Wilson with the way he plays/poise/accuracy.
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I've expressed my interest in Mahomes here several times, and so for the most part agree.
 
steelbtexan said:
Are you confident in Ricky McNair being able to identify a franchise QB?

Would you given my/Tex track record at identifying a better chance at finding a franchise QB?
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Do we know that Rick evaluated Wentz, Garoppolo, or whoever you thought the next great QB was going to be any differently than you or Texian did? For all we know he felt the exact same way. But unlike you & Texian, where all you need to do is fold your arms, blink, & wiggle your nose to make things happen, Rick has to deal with the real world.
 
thunderkyss said:
Do we know that Rick evaluated Wentz, Garoppolo, or whoever you thought the next great QB was going to be any differently than you or Texian did? For all we know he felt the exact same way. But unlike you & Texian, where all you need to do is fold your arms, blink, & wiggle your nose to make things happen, Rick has to deal with the real world.
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:clap::clap::clap:

Thank you. The draftnik who can walk on water poo was getting a little deep.
 
PapaL said:
If finding a franchise QB is so easy, according to some here, then why doesn't every team have one? Every year there's a QB that's a can't miss prospect. Inevitably he gets drafted and fails. Yes some fall into better situations than others but if he's a can't miss then he should be able to take crappy franchises and make them competitive. It's exhausting reading the same **** over and over on here. They took a chance last year and it didn't work out how we wanted. Lets build the rest of the team and press on. We suck at QB evaluations so fortify the damn OL and let's get playmakers at RB and run the damn ball. Run...to set up the pass. What a concept! Especially when you don't have an alltime great QB.
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They don't need an all-time great QB, they just need a competent one. Even with a "fortified" OL, how much better than 23 TD in 16 games do you think they'd be? They were 8th in rushing yards per game with the OL they had. That and one of the best defenses in the game. Not saying they don't need to fortify the OL, but they need a QB.

And I don't know why people think that if you go after a QB year after year until you find one that you can't build the rest of the team. Last time I checked, they had more than 1 draft pick, not to mention free agency. You can still try to find a QB and still build your team.

As for the OP, selling out for anybody is stupid because it's such a crap shoot. That's how you don't build a team. If Ryan Fitzpatrick and Brian Hoyer can have one of their best seasons in this offense, they can find a damn QB that's competent. (I think...talent eval is another issue) They missed on Osweiler. Shit happens, move on.

PapaL said:
I think it's safe to say that in all of our hearts, that was our year. We have yet to recover at the QB position from Schaub's foot injury.
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Some kind of sacrifice involving Fat Albert seems to be in order here.
 
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thunderkyss said:
Do we know that Rick evaluated Wentz, Garoppolo, or whoever you thought the next great QB was going to be any differently than you or Texian did? For all we know he felt the exact same way. But unlike you & Texian, where all you need to do is fold your arms, blink, & wiggle your nose to make things happen, Rick has to deal with the real world.
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Or pick XSF in the 2nd rd.
 
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