Seen enough

[The Pencil Neck]

How many tackles and sacks does an above average DE make in a regular season game?

Come on you brilliant prognosticators who know all after 3 quarters of a pre season football. I'm waiting. I'll give you a few hours to figure it out and time to eat crow before I am back with the answer.

Well, not that you were talking to me BUT... to get double digit sacks, you need to get slightly more than 1 sack every other game. But as some other people have posted, judging a DE just on sacks ignores a lot of things they do. Other guys on the DL are benefitting just from having him on the field and that's not something that's really measurable.

And the guy hasn't even played a full games worth of plays, yet, has he?

I can't wait for this season to start. I really can't.

 

[Wolf]

well I haven't seen enough, I think ,for the Texans, this was a must -have type of game. A game where we saw the blitzes, we saw the mistakes on offense and defense. I realize some posters on here would have loved to rolled the rams for 35 points and only give up 7. Heck I would have loved to see that,but what would it have accomplished? We still wouldn't have seen our weaknesses. If I recall Spencer struggled on the first series and Carr the 1st half. As far as Blitzing and from reading the game thread, I was suprised that THAT much blitzing was coming in a 2nd preseason game, yet Kubiak did say that this game was going to be the game where most of the starters would play, and the next few will be evaluation purposes.

All in all we needed to see this kinda of game. IMO

 

[OzzO]

I think it is time to admit that Mario Williams is a mistake. I realize that we have only seen him play for less than one game, but I really feel that if we had drafted Ferguson or Bush that we would be able to run the ball at will and we'd probably be undefeated.

Not sure if that was sarcastic or not, if so - nice undertone zinger.

 

[AFD1717]

A4toZ, I wondered if I should use the little smiley or not.

 

[football freak]

the Texans did the right thing drafting Williams. We filled a need and Kubiak will produce the next superstar runnung back out of Morency.

 

[South Texan]

Seems to me like you fix the WEAKEST link in the chain. Last year that was the D-Line and O-Line.

Mario may not become the best ever, but he should be a force for years to come.
Weaver was a great pickup to play oppisite Mario.
Peek-A-Boom and Battling Babin are back to playing where they belong.
DeMeco looks like he is going to make some noise in the League

The offensive side of the line is for another thread, but only 1 sack in 2 games looks like we helped ourselves there too.

Even if Carr can't get it done, Sage looks like he can. We didn't need a QB.
The running game is averaging 5 to 6 yards per carry with our 2nd and 3rd string RBs. Our system makes running backs great, we didn't need to go 1'st round for a great running back.

It's a TEAM sport. IMO, the guys we picked up are what the team needed most.

 

[Goldeagle]

Peek gets his props dont worry about that. Its just nice to see mario progress its our common goal as texans fans.

True, his one sack Mario Was not double teamed. It was all Peak.

Nice to see Mario dominate the 2nd stringers

 

[mancunian]

It hasn't been mentioned yet that the 1st string D allowed only about 30 rushing yards in the first half. I'm quite sure that he was part of the line that accomplished this.

Rams had 61 rushing yards on 27 attempts all night. And we put up 143 yards on the ground. The week before the Colts had 38 on 16 attempts.

 

[Johnny Utah]

True, his one sack Mario Was not double teamed. It was all Peak.

Nice to see Mario dominate the 2nd stringers

Did you see what Mario was doing to the Guard on Peek's sack? It was a bullrush where the Guard was getting pushed back easily and Mario was collapsing the pocket.

 

[Goldeagle]

hard to say sinc ehe got 2, but the one I saw (AGAIN, against 2nd stringers) he made a swim move and Peak was one on one. Dont get me wrong MW looked great against the 2nd string guys, and that is something.

Meanwhile D birck has kicked butt in NY, and decimated not one but TWO guys on one block down the field the other day.

 

[MrMeToo]

Mario is a average player. Definitely not worth the number 1 pick, but we can't do nothing about it now so it doesn't bohter me.

 

[thunderkyss]

You need to go back and watch tape of Mario getting double-teamed out in space while Peek went inside and got the sack on at least one occassion.

did you see the one where Peek crashed inside, taking out the LT, and the LG ,to allow Weaver around the edge to nail Bulger as he threw the ball??


Beautiful.

 

[Wolf]

Mario is a average player. Definitely not worth the number 1 pick, but we can't do nothing about it now so it doesn't bohter me.

aren't we a ..you know this how? after about 2 1/2 quarters in preseason.

either way if Mario didn't go number 1 overall, he would have been top 4..

 

[Wolf]

I am glad it was Ryan that was out last game and not mario, some would conclude the word "injury prone"

 

[Jwwillis]

the sky is falling the sky is falling! chill, second game of the preseason, bruce smith and reggie white started out slow too

lol I agree MW is goin to be fine. But I have to say all these "The sky is falling" comments remind me of last years pre-season....and the sky fell.

 

[Grid]

When you prophesize doom and gloom every year.. that doesnt make you a prophet when it actually happens .

Mario has played 3 quarters now... notice that when he actuall got to play back to back quarters, he did much better in the second quarter.

Could it be that Mario may need to play a whole game to completely show where he is at? gasp!... but a WHOLE GAME??? What kind of fans give thier first round draft pick an ENTIRE game before they decide if they suck? Do they think we are MADE of free time?

Next they will be telling us that the coaches know more about football than we do.. HAH! that will be the day. Everyone knows that coaches know the LEAST about football.. thats why they are coaches.

 

[rittenhouserobz]

How is the sky falling when we did win two games? We are on top of the division. Even if they are pseudo-wins.

 

[AFD1717]

Mario is a average player.

I agree. He hasn't had a sack in his entire professional career. We have invested far too much time in this guy already. He hasn't responded to coaching and has gone as far as admiting that he was too excited in half of the games he has played. Its time to stop expecting this guy to develop. If he hasn't become a dominant force yet, it is time to cut bait.

(Sarcasm hat off)

Question: Who will be a better pro - Mario, D'Brick, VY, or El Presidente?

Answer: I don't know and neither do any of you. We won't know for years. Stop pretending to draw accurate conclusions based on 3 quarters of preseason football.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

How do we know Dbrick is kicking butt ? I wonder how much better Dbrick is than Spencer . I know he's not stronger or bigger or comes with a DL attitude .

I think David Anderson is going to be a bust .

 

[rmartin65]

I think David Anderson is going to be a bust .

I stayed up late last night so sorry if that was meant to be sarcasm. I think its kinda hard to be a bust from the 7th round.

 

[Bamaborn-Texasbred]

The Texans have held two good offensive teams to two touchdowns each. I know it is just preseason, but that is pretty darn good. Remember, it is just preseason. Don't try to evaluate anyone's entire career on two preseason games. However, if you have focused on him these last two games and haven't noticed his raw speed and power, you are blind, blind, blind.

 

[Smash_Mouth_Mario]

Mario has played 3 quarters now... notice that when he actuall got to play back to back quarters, he did much better in the second quarter.

What I'll be very interested in is how well Mario does in the 4th quarter as time goes on. Will he tire out or will tire out the opposing OTs?

 

[GoTexans]

Mario Williams was the wrong pick. Of course I speak for the 10% who wanted D Brick.

yeah all the double teams he has been drawing that helped create five sacks against the Chiefs and three against the Rams.

his presence on the field alone makes everyone on the D much better.

and busting that double team to make that tackle for a loss on saturday is what you can expect from super mario as he continues to develop.

 

[DocBar]

Mario Williams was the wrong pick. Of course I speak for the 10% who wanted D Brick.

I hope you aren't anyones boss. You have some tough standards. If you're this disappointed at this stage by Mario, you'd be suicidal if we had D'Brick. OT is at LEAST as difficult to learn as DE.

 

[clandestin]

I didn't think the offensive line played well. They couldn't run block and Brick seemed akward trying to block nfl defensive ends. Obviously it was his first game but his overall blocking was nothing special.

I don't know what game you guys were watching but Ferguson was getting man handled by Rice. His lucky they gave him help and made quick 3 step drop throws.

http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=9780

This is a response to the thread starter... It turns out the best tackle to enter the draft in years is a rookie too. No matter who we passed on, Mario is still a rookie. The fact that he made serious improvement in his second and third quarters of playing is nothing but positive.

A batted down pass, a tackle for a loss, and drawing holds against the first team are good things. Lawrence Taylor who was the most dominant pass rusher in league history didn't hit double digit sacks until his fourth year in the league...he was a rooke at some point too.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Lawrence Taylor who was the most dominant pass rusher in league history didn't hit double digit sacks until his fourth year in the league...he was a rooke at some point too.

How many sacks did LT have his first year? I can't find the number for that. Did they start keeping the sack stat in 1982?

Anyway, LT still made the Pro Bowl his first year and for the first 10 years of his career. I'd like to see that kind of production from Mario.

 

[Smash_Mouth_Mario]

How many sacks did LT have his first year? I can't find the number for that. Did they start keeping the sack stat in 1982?

Anyway, LT still made the Pro Bowl his first year and for the first 10 years of his career. I'd like to see that kind of production from Mario.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Yeah, I already looked there but I don't think that's accurate. I don't think he got 0 sacks his first year and got to the pro-bowl. That's why I was wondering if they didn't start keeping the stat until his second year.

 

[thunderkyss]

Yeah, I already looked there but I don't think that's accurate. I don't think he got 0 sacks his first year and got to the pro-bowl. That's why I was wondering if they didn't start keeping the stat until his second year.

the primary goal of the LB is not getting sacks.... it's stopping the run. Like a SS, he may very well be the best to play that position, and never get a sack. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, where like a Troy Polomau(sp) or Ronnie Lott are exceptional pass rushers from their position........ people say they changed the game............... or people start to expect their LBs & Safeties to produce sacks like them.

Basically, it is very possible that LT was playing at a level higher than anyone expected to see a rookie LB play(AP defensive player of the year, AP Rookie of the Year) and not get a sack......

 

[The Pencil Neck]

the primary goal of the LB is not getting sacks.... it's stopping the run. Like a SS, he may very well be the best to play that position, and never get a sack. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, where like a Troy Polomau(sp) or Ronnie Lott are exceptional pass rushers from their position........ people say they changed the game............... or people start to expect their LBs & Safeties to produce sacks like them.

Basically, it is very possible that LT was playing at a level higher than anyone expected to see a rookie LB play(AP defensive player of the year, AP Rookie of the Year) and not get a sack......

Well, I doubt it. AND... I was right. The NFL did not keep sack statistics prior to 1982.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/comsite5/bin/pdinventory.pl?pdlanding=1&referid=2750&item_id=0199-3352061

I knew that the NFL only started keeping the sack statistic recently but I wasn't sure which year it was. It was 1982. So we don't know if LT got double digit sacks his rookie year or not. He probably didn't but we just don't know.

 

[DocBar]

Mario is a bust( or will HAVE one)!!! It will be on display in the NFL HOF starting in 2026. It will be recognizable by the plethora of Lombardi trophies next to it!!!

 

[Battle Red Flash]

Hmmm.
WAY too early to tell on this, but I love those tackles behind the line!

 

[Texian]

Well I have given you Mario Bashers a whole day to come up with the answers but for some unknown reason none of you can rise to the challenge. Therefore I have to consider all Mario Bashers pre season bust. Here is the question again:

How many tackles and sacks does an above average DE make in a regular season game?

A few of you are making a Taylor comparision, a LB. Let's stay with apples to apples (DEs to DEs) for now.

Dwight Freeney avgs. 2.2 tackles a game and .8 sacks a game.
Michael Strahan avgs. 3.95 tackles a game and .678 sacks a game.
Julius Peppers avgs. 3.21 tackles a game and .675 sacks a game.

There you go, here is your measuring stick, but these numbers are only for real games that count - no preseaon. Of course when you start counting you have to expect Mario as rookie to be some what under these 3 DEs numbers. It will not be until 2007 or 2008 before you can expect 3 tackles and .6 sacks a game.

 

[Bamaborn-Texasbred]

Well I have given you Mario Bashers a whole day to come up with the answers but for some unknown reason none of you can rise to the challenge. Therefore I have to consider all Mario Bashers pre season bust. Here is the question again:

How many tackles and sacks does an above average DE make in a regular season game?

A few of you are making a Taylor comparision, a LB. Let's stay with apples to apples (DEs to DEs) for now.

Dwight Freeney avgs. 2.2 tackles a game and .8 sacks a game.
Michael Strahan avgs. 3.95 tackles a game and .678 sacks a game.
Julius Peppers avgs. 3.21 tackles a game and .675 sacks a game.

There you go, here is your measuring stick, but these numbers are only for real games that count - no preseaon. Of course when you start counting you have to expect Mario as rookie to be some what under these 3 DEs numbers. It will not be until 2007 or 2008 before you can expect 3 tackles and .6 sacks a game.

Thanks for putting it into perspective for these people. Playing defense isn't glamorous, and it rarely gets you on the highlight reel. You can make the most splash on defense by being a top notch corner, but even those guys don't make highlight plays every game.

 

[Bamaborn-Texasbred]

In the forty drafts that have taken place since the league merger, a running back has been the top overall pick seven times. That is 17.5 % of the 40 number one picks.

Defensive end is right there with running back at 17.5% However, if you add DT you come up with twelve overall number one picks for 30%. That is nearly one out of every three.

rbs-

O.J.
Ricky Bell
Earl Campbell
Billy Sims
George Rogers
Bo Jackson
Ki-Jana Carter

D Line-

Bubba Smith de
John Matuszak de
Ed "Too Tall" Jones de
Lee Roy Selmon de
Bruce Smith de
Courtney Brown de
Mario Williams de

Walt Patulski dt
Kenneth Sims dt
Russell Maryland dt
Steve Emtman dt
Dan Wilkinson dt

I bring this up because the media acts like the Texans have done something shocking by grabbing a defensive end with the first pick. You could say passing up on Reggie Bush is shocking, but look at our rushing numbers so far. Apparently we are fairly deep at running back, and we have pass rush threat to boot. If the Texans never come out of the cellar, and Mario Williams hasn't provided some excitement within a year or two you can cry foul. For now, just enjoy the fact that they look one hell of a lot better than they did last year.

Also, Herschell Walker was the best college back in his draft class. Reggie White was the best DE. They both went to the USFL, but if you had to choose between the two knowing what you know now who would you take?

 

[Bamaborn-Texasbred]

Did I nail this one shut? It has been an hour with no response.

 

[chuckm]

I'm waiting for you to mention Aundray Bruce ....

 

[Double Barrel]

Well I have given you Mario Bashers a whole day to come up with the answers but for some unknown reason none of you can rise to the challenge. Therefore I have to consider all Mario Bashers pre season bust. Here is the question again:

How many tackles and sacks does an above average DE make in a regular season game?

A few of you are making a Taylor comparision, a LB. Let's stay with apples to apples (DEs to DEs) for now.

Dwight Freeney avgs. 2.2 tackles a game and .8 sacks a game.
Michael Strahan avgs. 3.95 tackles a game and .678 sacks a game.
Julius Peppers avgs. 3.21 tackles a game and .675 sacks a game.

There you go, here is your measuring stick, but these numbers are only for real games that count - no preseaon. Of course when you start counting you have to expect Mario as rookie to be some what under these 3 DEs numbers. It will not be until 2007 or 2008 before you can expect 3 tackles and .6 sacks a game.

hey, don't let facts get in the way of good rhetoric.

Nice post, man. Well done.

 

[Bamaborn-Texasbred]

I'm waiting for you to mention Aundray Bruce ....

Linebacker. He's one of two taken first overall since the merger.

 

[chuckm]

Linebacker

you, as a Tide fan, would know this ..... 10 - 0 .....

 

[Bamaborn-Texasbred]

are you about to throw bama's two losses to end the season at me?

 

[chuckm]

are you about to throw bama's two losses to end the season at me?

no way ....... every year I spend away from Alabama college football makes me appreciate it even more .... 10 - 0 was was the result of the 1987 Iron Bowl

 

[Nawzer]

I thought Mario Williams showed well. He definitely showed improvement from his first game and that's what I mainly wanted to see. For him it's all about getting confidence and getting comfortable. He has all the physical tools one could ever want and he's shown mentally he's strong. It's just a matter of time before he starts playing great. I was on the Reggie Bush camp before the draft and I was upset when they picked him but now I've started to move on. Both are great players and I think Mario Williams will be a special player for us.

 

[DocBar]

Glad we didn't pick Bush. He's a bust. I've seen enough. -3 yds rushing(as in NEGATIVE YARDAGE) and just called for a fair catch on a punt and the ball was downed inside the 10.

 

[Grid]

With that Defense, New Orleans isnt going anywhere. And with Bush's ego.. i give him 2 seasons before he starts demanding a trade.

 

[pancho]

Saints need a defensive lineman.