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Save us Savage!!!!!!!

TexansBull said:
Still trying to figure out what Rick is responsible for being he has the last say in operations of personnel.

Multiple sources had Savage as the better looking QB in training camp against Brock.

Someone had just got paid though.
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So you're telling me O'Brien doesn't have the ability to start the guy who was clearly better?
 
thunderkyss said:
So you're telling me O'Brien doesn't have the ability to start the guy who was clearly better?
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Once they traded for Brock and made that kind of investment in him, they were pretty much committed to starting him. The opportunity for Savage to win the job from Brock just wasn't there in training camp no matter how well Tom played. I believe the decision to sign Brock was the result of McNair pressuring Rick and O'Brien to find a QB outside the organization to be the starter for 2016 and Rick and BOB making the decision together to sign Brock to be that guy. Both were committed to following through with that decision and there was nothing Savage could have done to derail that train.
 
thunderkyss said:
So you're telling me O'Brien doesn't have the ability to start the guy who was clearly better?
Click to expand...

Caution: Mind Reading and Speculation follow....

I would think that in a situation like the one with Brock the entire Texans "brain trust" (Stop laughing!) would be looking at Brock's performance and expecting it to improve and so I would not have considered Brock's salary to be the deciding factor early on. Savage was of course going to out play Brock in preseason. He had the benefit of two years in the system and chemistry with the backup receivers. He was also going against lesser competition (albeit with equal support from the Texans 2's and 3's). Basically I think they just kept thinking "Eventually he's going to start clicking and this is gonna pay off".

As the season wore on and Brock failed to get better I think they doubled down on trying to find the things that worked for him. Focusing mostly on what he could do well and probably told themselves that if they could give him things that worked he could build on those for now. At this point I think his salary began to be a factor. They paid a lot of money for this guy so they tried to keep it simple and got ready for a longer learning curve with him than they had expected or hoped for.

By the last quarter of the year I think the Texans had finally just decided that maybe he wasn't what they thought he was and so he got pulled against Jacksonville and lost the gig when Savage played well enough to bring the team back and win. The Texans front office probably thought they would see if a challenger for the starting spot might motivate him and when Savage went down against Tennessee it gave them the chance to see how Brock would respond. He did seem to try harder but the results weren't really any better and so they headed into the offseason intending to free themselves of his contract and presence. Savage was not in their plans either as more than a placeholder.
 
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Hervoyel said:
Caution: Mind Reading and Speculation follow....

I would think that in a situation like the one with Brock the entire Texans "brain trust" (Stop laughing!) would be looking at Brock's performance and expecting it to improve and so I would not have considered Brock's salary to be the deciding factor early on. Savage was of course going to out play Brock in preseason. He had the benefit of two years in the system and chemistry with the backup receivers. He was also going against lesser competition (albeit with equal support from the Texans 2's and 3's). Basically I think they just kept thinking "Eventually he's going to start clicking and this is gonna pay off".

As the season wore on and Brock failed to get better I think they doubled down on trying to find the things that worked for him. Focusing mostly on what he could do well and probably told themselves that if they could give him things that worked he could build on those for now. At this point I think his salary began to be a factor. They paid a lot of money for this guy so they tried to keep it simple and got ready for a longer learning curve with him than they had expected or hoped for.

By the last quarter of the year I think the Texans had finally just decided that maybe he wasn't what they thought he was and so he got pulled against Jacksonville and lost the gig when Savage played well enough to bring the team back and win. The Texans front office probably thought they would see if a challenger for the starting spot might motivate him and when Savage went down against Tennessee it gave them the chance to see how Brock would respond. He did seem to try harder but the results weren't really any better and so they headed into the offseason intending to free themselves of his contract and presence. Savage was not in their plans either as more than a placeholder.
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To add to this - the blow up between Brock and OB sealed his fate as well.

Unfortunately, i have to agree that Savage is planned to be a placeholder, but i hope he performs well enough for trade value and get another opportunity at starting.

Savage has to play lights out to be still starting the last game of the season. If they are 6-0 going into the bye, winning because of him, I don't know how they make the switch. It will be tough.
 
thunderkyss said:
Rick doesn't put people on IR.
Rick doesn't decide how long a leash is going to be.

I was here. I was here through all that. I know why Savage hasn't been on the field. & I have an idea why the Texans have brought in QBs to start or compete for the starting job whilst Savage sat on a bench.

He couldn't even convince the Texans he'd be a solid backup until year 3. Then they drafted a guy to be the Texans' starting QB.

I'd be shocked if Tom Savage is starting week 1.
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Who does make the final IR decisions if it's not Ricky?

Prepare to be shocked.
 
To support my position that if the goal is to shoot for the SB, I googled "Best Rookie Quarterback Seasons in NFL History".

#10: Peyton Manning, 1998
#9: Jamels Winston, 2015
#8: Andy Dalton, 2011...led the Bengals to the playoffs losing the Wild Card.
#7: Andrew Luck, 2012...led the Colts to the playoffs losing the Wild Card.
#6: Matt Ryan, 2008... led the Falcons to the playoffs losing the Wild Card.
#5: Dan Marino, 1983
#4: Russell Wilson, 2012...led the Seahawks to the playoffs, winning the Wild Card, losing the following divisional game.
#3: Cam Newton, 2011
#2: Robert Griffin III, 2012... led the Redskins to the playoffs losing the Wild Card.
#1: Ben Roethlisberger, 2004... led the Steelers to the playoffs losing in the AFC Championship Game

One day a rookie may lead his team to the SB. But, based on what I've seen so far, it's not Watson.
 
These are all O'Brien's decisions. The offense has been a mess of wasted picks, trade ups and crappy free agents since he got here.

Notice that's not happening with the defensive personnel...because Crennel runs that.

I see no evidence to believe that Rick does anything other than rubber stamp what the coaches want.
 
Corrosion said:
Was talking to Cak last night about drafting Watson being questionable in terms of the direction of the franchise.

OB being in the final year of his contract - Is he going to be back ? If not does the next coaching staff want to go to war with Watson as their QB or would they prefer to draft their own guy who may better fit what they want to do offensively.

And for OB himself , if he's trying to win enough games to get that extension , does drafting a QB who isn't going to play make any sense at all when you have so many other needs ....


Really makes me think that there was significant disagreement on draft night. McNair and Tricky Rick wanting a QB , OB wanting to fix what's broken and run with Savage and an improved roster elsewhere. Obviously Tricky Rick and McNair would win that argument ....
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This is exactly what I think happened.

Bottom line is Tricky Ricky convinced McNair that Savage wasn't the man to get the job done and traded away next yrs draft to get Ricky's guy and fix the Os screw up.

If you think BOB with his job on the line didn't want to find a serviceable RT in the drft/FA then I've got some great swamp land to sell to you.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I know we are not hanging our hats on what this organization believes. I know you are not niave like that. Again if this ORGANIZATION had that type of faith in Tom Savage, they wouldn't have brought both Mallett and Hoyer in here to compete for the starting QB spot. They wouldn't have acted out of desperation, spending all that money to get Brock. And finally if they believed Savage could win them a SuperBowl, they would've made Steel happy by drafting a freaking stud Left Tackle, instead of jumping up 13 spots to draft Watson.
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By organization, do you mean Bob/Ricky McNair?

I seem to remember a picture of the warroom on draft night and BOB had his WTF moment. While Cal/Ricky were busy giving each other handjobs.

Dysfunctional org much and it appears it will continue to be that way until fans stop showing up at NRG.

# A long time
 
thunderkyss said:
It doesn't make sense, given what we know.

So, it is possible we don't know what we think we know. Rick & McNair winning the "battle" to draft a QB does not fit with the, "we've never had to go to McNair to break a tie." Thing.

I'm not saying everything is hunky dory on Kirby, only that we really don't know.

I don't want to believe this organization is as dysfunctional as the tea leaves suggest.
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If any poster on this MB would know how dysfunctional the Texans org is, it would be Corrosion.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
That's what I said from the get go...RS is a poor GM and has made enough bad decisions to have been fired twice with any other organization that held him accountable. The Texans had Savage and Weeden for 2017...they could have signed an inexpensive backup (Keenum) to help keep the competition lively in camp. Texans could have traded back and landed both Robinson, Pocic and still drafted Davenport to re-fortify the OL. Based on the early results, these three could be OL studs for years to come. The OL gets some much needed new blood to protect the QB and better serve the running game.

The crazy thing...if Savage doesn't live up to the expectations after getting the OL corrected, then at minimum, the OL would be much better going into 2018. Don't forget, under this scenario, the team still possesses ALL of their 2018 draft picks which means, getting a QB from the draft would be much easier. Also, the Texans would be in the drivers seat while dictating terms to Savage's agent on getting him re-signed so he can mentor the new starting QB. If the Texans find it necessary to carry a third QB, then Weeden would still be there for the taking.

I would call this...building for a successful future.
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I have been echoing this post since before the draft. It's called looking towards the future. But that wasn't Ricky's agenda.
 
Texansballer74 said:
How in the hell is that tanking the freaking season? That comment makes no earthly sense whatsoever OptimisticTexan. We have the number one defense for starters. Then we have some nice wrapons on offense. All they would do is let him manage the freaking game. There is nothing wrong with that because we have seen that philosophy work for a lot of teams in the NFL for decades. But oh no that skit can't and won't work for the Texans. Interesting to say the least.

Savage doesn't have to start. You want him to start because he's your guy. I been knowing that for several years now. But yes he will be the day one starter. And all good with that. But let's not act like wr haven't seen successful day one rookie quarterback starters. And let's not pretend like they knew their teams offensive playbook either.
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How many rookie QB's have won a SB?

Honest question, if Watson starts from day 1 what do YOU think the Texans record will be next season? Looking at the schedule I would say about 6-10, 7-9.
 
steelbtexan said:
This is exactly what I think happened.

Bottom line is Tricky Ricky convinced McNair that Savage wasn't the man to get the job done and traded away next yrs draft to get Ricky's guy and fix the Os screw up.

If you think BOB with his job on the line didn't want to find a serviceable RT in the drft/FA then I've got some great swamp land to sell to you.
Click to expand...

IF your speculation is true and...
IF this is the second season in a row that a Smith/McNair pairing has out-voted O'Brien on the QB position (bunch of IF's in here) then Bill O'Brien is sitting Watson from the start because it's the only chance he'll ever have to sit Watson and play his guy. He's using the only excuse that will hold water (That Watson is not ready yet) in the eyes of both his boss and the court of public opinion.

In such a scenario I can't imagine he'd be happy about the cost of moving up for Watson but I also don't think he would purposely hold back Watson or not coach him up. Everything so far points to him being happy with Watson's performance and effort but also clearly stating that he's got a lot to work on. Not at all different from the kind of praise he gives to any rookie.

I can see how the theory fits the facts but I have a hard time seeing O'Brien wanting to be here if he'd lost the QB debate two years in a row like that. O'Brien would (I believe) want to be out of here if he kept being overruled for QB's he didn't want.
 
Hervoyel said:
IF your speculation is true and...
IF this is the second season in a row that a Smith/McNair pairing has out-voted O'Brien on the QB position (bunch of IF's in here) then Bill O'Brien is sitting Watson from the start because it's the only chance he'll ever have to sit Watson and play his guy. He's using the only excuse that will hold water (That Watson is not ready yet) in the eyes of both his boss and the court of public opinion.

In such a scenario I can't imagine he'd be happy about the cost of moving up for Watson but I also don't think he would purposely hold back Watson or not coach him up. Everything so far points to him being happy with Watson's performance and effort but also clearly stating that he's got a lot to work on. Not at all different from the kind of praise he gives to any rookie.

I can see how the theory fits the facts but I have a hard time seeing O'Brien wanting to be here if he'd lost the QB debate two years in a row like that. O'Brien would (I believe) want to be out of here if he kept being overruled for QB's he didn't want.
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BOB wouldn't hold the front offices incompetence against Watson.

I do believe BOB wanted out last yr and will want out after this season if he doesn't get more say within the org. Not gonna happen, I've said all along BOB wont be here next yr, either by his doing or Bob/Ricky McNair getting rid of BOB.
 
michaelm said:
No it absolutely won't be tough because they absolutely would not make a switch in your scenario
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I think they could.

I think there is a plan in place to put Watson in by at the latest after the bye. Somewhere between game 3 and by week. Expect them to rationalize it as "Watson is the future and is a winner and give him a chance." Regardless of how Savage does.

Meanwhile - if it blows up in their face expect Rick to say that was a HC call and not his, but behind the scenes he is putting pressure on OB in some way to start Watson regardless of how Savage does.
 
TexansBull said:
I think they could.

I think there is a plan in place to put Watson in by at the latest after the bye. Somewhere between game 3 and by week. Expect them to rationalize it as "Watson is the future and is a winner and give him a chance." Regardless of how Savage does.

Meanwhile - if it blows up in their face expect Rick to say that was a HC call and not his, but behind the scenes he is putting pressure on OB in some way to start Watson regardless of how Savage does.
Click to expand...

If this happens at 6-0, I can see BOB airing all of the Texans orgs dirty laundry as his way out of this dysfunctional org.

What I think happens is Savage gets another bogus concussion and we will see how Watson does.
 
TexansBull said:
I think they could.

I think there is a plan in place to put Watson in by at the latest after the bye. Somewhere between game 3 and by week. Expect them to rationalize it as "Watson is the future and is a winner and give him a chance." Regardless of how Savage does.

Meanwhile - if it blows up in their face expect Rick to say that was a HC call and not his, but behind the scenes he is putting pressure on OB in some way to start Watson regardless of how Savage does.
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Savage played three series first game and only two the second. Watson has gotten most of the playing time. This, I think, is by design, to showcase whether Watson has what it takes to start early.

Savage will get more playing time against NO (typically a half plus one series) but Watson will get the second half; and most of the final game against the Cowboys.

If the difference between the two is as apparent as it has been these first two games, Watson will sit the season. With practices as limited as they are during the season, Savage will get the snaps in preparation for that week's game. There will be no opportunity for Watson to "win" the starting position. He may see playing time only if Savage is injured.

I say "may" because I'm still not certain OB will not decide to go with Weeden. It may depend on the divisional race.
 
TexansBull said:
To add to this - the blow up between Brock and OB sealed his fate as well.

Unfortunately, i have to agree that Savage is planned to be a placeholder, but i hope he performs well enough for trade value and get another opportunity at starting.

Savage has to play lights out to be still starting the last game of the season. If they are 6-0 going into the bye, winning because of him, I don't know how they make the switch. It will be tough.
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If the season unfolds as you just postulated, Watson continues to hold the clipboard and play scout team QB. O'Brien isn't the kind to screw with something that's working. McNair will be happy because (a) we'll be in the catbird seat in our division and (b) his boys beat Robert Kraft's boys in a game that counted in there house. So he would have no reason to pressure O'Brien into starting his shiny, new rookie. In fact, this sort of success would strengthen O'Brien's stance when McNair does his end-of-year coaching evals.

Having said that, I see us being 4-2 when the bye week rolls around. If Savage has played iffy and we've won because of the new look Alfred Blue and D. Foreman and defense then you might see Watson after the bye.
 
In this division, and with this defense (if it stays healthy) all they really need out of Savage is "competent game manager" to have a good shot at winning the division (and, say, 9-10 wins). Everything above that would be a bonus. I do think they will wait a few weeks, but eventually there will be pressure to trot Watson out as a high priced first-round pick.
 
ObsiWan said:
If the season unfolds as you just postulated, Watson continues to hold the clipboard and play scout team QB. O'Brien isn't the kind to screw with something that's working. McNair will be happy because (a) we'll be in the catbird seat in our division and (b) his boys beat Robert Kraft's boys in a game that counted in there house. So he would have no reason to pressure O'Brien into starting his shiny, new rookie. In fact, this sort of success would strengthen O'Brien's stance when McNair does his end-of-year coaching evals.

Having said that, I see us being 4-2 when the bye week rolls around. If Savage has played iffy and we've won because of the new look Alfred Blue and D. Foreman and defense then you might see Watson after the bye.
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4 strong defensive teams.
If the Texans go 4-2, it's difficult to see how they yank Savage.
 
Bill O'Brien continues to be clear: "Tom [Savage] is the starter." "Tom is playing well this camp. Tom has really had a good camp. He's only thrown three incompletions in two games. He's really got good command of our offense. "Like I've said, Deshaun [Watson] is a very, very good young player who has a great future in this league, let's put the cards on the table. That's what it is. But Tom has been here for four years. The way we want to play, the style we need to play relative to getting guys lined up, relative to cadence, relative to protection points and route reads and putting guys in the right spot, Tom is ahead of Deshaun on that."
Sarah Barshop, ESPN Staff Writer
Click to expand...
 
I have no problem with Savage being named the starter. I thought I would because I do like Watson but the reality is he hasn't done enough to pass Savage. Yes, Watson has some intangibles that Savage simply can never have at this point but right at this specific moment he is lacking some things that Tom does have. These things can shift in Watson's direction as he learns and develops like making the proper read, going through the progressions in a more fluid motion and judging the touch on his passes but right now he's behind in Savage in those areas.

We always say we want the guy who outplays the other out there and right now that is the case. Savage has outplayed Watson though not to a degree we have to be concerned about our pick in Watson. He has shown the promise to become a franchise quarterback. It's just now on him and the coaching staff to develop and get him to the point he needs to be.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I like it when the WR1 (Hopkins) is still standing behind Savage...it sets the tone for the rest of the receivers and thus far, Savage has been accurately delivering passes which backs up that endorsement.

I think the fact that Savage has gotten the bulk of the first team snaps in practice and all the first team reps in the PS games will prove invaluable towards his overall growth as QB1. The man never lacked; the intellect to learn O'Brien's system, lacked the talent to throw the ball or the ability to be the leader of this offense, once he was given the chance...what he lacked was the first team reps. I think he has a better ceiling than some may think and in no way is that meant to be a slap on Watson.

Watson has the talent but he needs the time to learn this system and improve on some of the issues in his game...end of world? Heck no, just the beginning of who he might become. To be honest, I liken him to Moon "only" because of his similar skill set and this is the biggest praise I can hand the guy since Moon was my favorite QB in the NFL along with Staubach. But, I'm also hoping Savage delivers big this season since that would bode well for the Texans, O'Brien and the Houston fans.
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And there you go being naive. Hopkins is behind him because he's the #1 receiver. Remember he was behind Brock as well. So I know you have to take his stance with a grain of salt. Finally Hopkins is looking for a fat pay increase. So he has to back the man up so his targets won't decrease.
He's getting the bulk of the snaps because he's been here longer. Bill went to him and said Savage here is your chance. Reason being O'Brien has the same old school mentality like a few of our members on here.
 
steelbtexan said:
By organization, do you mean Bob/Ricky McNair?

I seem to remember a picture of the warroom on draft night and BOB had his WTF moment. While Cal/Ricky were busy giving each other handjobs.

Dysfunctional org much and it appears it will continue to be that way until fans stop showing up at NRG.

# A long time
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Let's be real dude you don't know wtf O'Brien was thinking. You act like that dude always smile. He's always looks serious since the day he was hired. But of course you're going to go overrated to his demeanor. It pushes your narrative you've been pushing .
 
Texansballer74 said:
Let's be real dude you don't know wtf O'Brien was thinking. You act like that dude always smile. He's always looks serious since the day he was hired. But of course you're going to go overrated to his demeanor. It pushes your narrative you've been pushing .
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Nope,

Not just his demeanor but that FACT that RUMORS came out just before a playoff game.

Believe what you want, I'm sure I'm not going to change your mind. But even you have to admit MAYBE just MAYBE there's just a LITTLE dysfunction in the TEXANS org after what has happened before a playoff game, BOB's season ending PC, the draft room pics and the lack of activity in FA, Gaine making a lateral move to Buffalo of all places.

Nah, this just cant be happening, in the Texans org.

Signed

Gary Kubiak
 
steelbtexan said:
Nope,

Not just his demeanor but that FACT that RUMORS came out just before a playoff game.

Believe what you want, I'm sure I'm not going to change your mind. But even you have to admit MAYBE just MAYBE there's just a LITTLE dysfunction in the TEXANS org after what has happened before a playoff game, BOB's season ending PC, the draft room pics and the lack of activity in FA, Gaine making a lateral move to Buffalo of all places.

Nah, this just cant be happening, in the Texans org.

Signed

Gary Kubiak
Click to expand...


Why would I believe a word that comes out your mouth or anything you have written? Seriously you are not apart of the Texans organization. You were reading too much into something you seen on the freaking TV. Did O'Brien personally tell you himself that he wasn't happy with the drafting of Watson? I recall him saying otherwise. So please stop trying to paint skit as facts. We all know how you feel towards Rick Smith and Mr. McNair.
 
steelbtexan said:
How many rookie QB's have won a SB?

Honest question, if Watson starts from day 1 what do YOU think the Texans record will be next season? Looking at the schedule I would say about 6-10, 7-9.
Click to expand...


Again we are not winning the Superbowl this year.

Its about building your rookie up for the future. Just like the Colts did with Manning and now Luck. Seattle did with Wilson, Carolina and Newton and the list goes on and on.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Bill O'Brien continues to be clear: "Tom [Savage] is the starter." "Tom is playing well this camp. Tom has really had a good camp. He's only thrown three incompletions in two games. He's really got good command of our offense. "Like I've said, Deshaun [Watson] is a very, very good young player who has a great future in this league, let's put the cards on the table. That's what it is. But Tom has been here for four years. The way we want to play, the style we need to play relative to getting guys lined up, relative to cadence, relative to protection points and route reads and putting guys in the right spot, Tom is ahead of Deshaun on that."
Sarah Barshop, ESPN Staff Writer
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Click to expand...

I heard that on the radio today. Just the tone & inflection of his voice, he's got me convinced.

I no longer believe they are trying to get Watson ready to start week 1.

Say, that reminds me... Y'all remember when Rex Ryan had Sanchez playing in the 4th Qtr of the 4th preseason game?
 
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Texansballer74 said:
Again we are not winning the Superbowl this year.

Its about building your rookie up for the future. Just like the Colts did with Manning and now Luck. Seattle did with Wilson, Carolina and Newton and the list goes on and on.
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If you think the rookie is good enough to win a SB.

You do, I dont, this is really easy.
 
"Its about building your rookie up for the future. Just like the Colts did with Manning and now Luck. Seattle did with Wilson, Carolina and Newton and the list goes on and on."
Signed,
Blake Bortles
Johnny Football
Christian Ponder
Blaine Gabbert
E.J. Manuel
Geno Smith
...and the list goes on and on...
 
Flyingfish said:
"Its about building your rookie up for the future. Just like the Colts did with Manning and now Luck. Seattle did with Wilson, Carolina and Newton and the list goes on and on."
Signed,
Blake Bortles
Johnny Football
Christian Ponder
Blaine Gabbert
E.J. Manuel
Geno Smith
...and the list goes on and on...
Click to expand...

My guess is the Watson only fans cant comprehend this.
 
Flyingfish said:
"Its about building your rookie up for the future. Just like the Colts did with Manning and now Luck. Seattle did with Wilson, Carolina and Newton and the list goes on and on."
Signed,
Blake Bortles
Johnny Football
Christian Ponder
Blaine Gabbert
E.J. Manuel
Geno Smith
...and the list goes on and on...
Click to expand...

I don't get the list.

Most of those guys weren't given the starting job right away.

And suck is suck. Sitting won't cure suck.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
And suck is suck. Sitting won't cure suck.
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No it won't, but rushing a player out on the field before he's ready to play won't help his chances and can have long term detrimental effects on his development/confidence.

The guy is barely completing over 50% of his passes in the preseason...preseason, where teams play vanilla defense. He clearly isn't close to being ready to start a regular season game.
 
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Carr Bombed said:
No it won't, but rushing a player out on the field before he's ready to play won't help his chances and can have long term detrimental effects on his development/confidence.

The guy is barely completing over 50% of his passes in the preseason...preseason, where teams play vanilla defense. He clearly isn't close to being ready to start a regular season game.
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Still a small sample size. 60% one game 30% the other. 10 attempts that second game. Playing with twos & threes on the OL & at receiver...

Shouldn't read too much into the numbers.

That's not to argue he is ready, only those numbers don't really represent much.
 
thunderkyss said:
Still a small sample size. 60% one game 30% the other. 10 attempts that second game. Playing with twos & threes on the OL & at receiver...

Shouldn't read too much into the numbers.

That's not to argue he is ready, only those numbers don't really represent much.
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Got to earn one's stripe.
 
Carr Bombed said:
No it won't, but rushing a player out on the field before he's ready to play won't help his chances and can have long term detrimental effects on his development/confidence.

The guy is barely completing over 50% of his passes in the preseason...preseason, where teams play vanilla defense. He clearly isn't close to being ready to start a regular season game.
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I disagree. I don't think putting a player out before they're ready guarantees failure. It's more about team goals.

Plenty of qbs have started early on bad teams and went on to be successful. Peyton immediately comes to mind.

I say it's more about team goals because if you are not expected to go far then teams tend to get their rookies out there early because no experience beats game experience. Teams that think they may have a chance at doing great things tend to go with the safer option instead of allowing the rookie to bump their head.

Jamies Winston is doing alright. Carr started pretty early and he's doing ok.
Goff sat almost all year and played bad. Jamarcus Russell sat for a while. Manziel didn't play right away.

I completely disagree with the whole notion of "playing guys when they're ready" having more long term success.

Even guys that sit don't come off the bench as the qbs they eventually become. Rodgers sat for years behind favre and when he got his chance there were still things that he needed to work on.

Russell Wilsin played right away and was good, but got better the more he played.

Alex Smith played right away and was bad.....until he linked up with better coaches. His career wasn't ruined because he had failure early and was considered a huge bust.

If a guy is good, he's good. If a guy doesn't have it and doesn't put in the work it doesn't matter if he sits or plays and vice versa.

If this was really about Watson sitting until some mystical point in time when the coaches really felt he could take the field as a starter then he'd be 3rd string behind Weeden.

But that's not what it's about despite the coach speak. What it's about is that OB feels like Savage gives him the best chance to win because he thinks right now he's better. If the goal was to let Watson marinate then he wouldn't be one snap away from taking the field. Otherwise you're scrapping your whole plan of letting your future Qb fully learn before taking the field based on one potential bad landing from a guy who's been hurt every year of his career.
 
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thunderkyss said:
Still a small sample size. 60% one game 30% the other. 10 attempts that second game. Playing with twos & threes on the OL & at receiver...

Shouldn't read too much into the numbers.

That's not to argue he is ready, only those numbers don't really represent much.
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This too.

And frankly OB has made poor decisions at qb/offense since he's been here so I'm inclined to go with the opposite of whatever he thinks is the right path.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Again we are not winning the Superbowl this year.

Its about building your rookie up for the future. Just like the Colts did with Manning and now Luck. Seattle did with Wilson, Carolina and Newton and the list goes on and on.
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The only thing preventing us from winning a SB this season is the OL, possible safety... maybe QB that's too be determined. Savage gives us the best chance for that. Oh yeah, coaching is also questionable, but so far it looks a little improved. Our offense hasn't been as offensive anyways.

I'm tired of building up for the future. I want to win now.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I disagree. I don't think putting a player out before they're ready guarantees failure. It's more about team goals.

Plenty of qbs have started early on bad teams and went on to be successful. Peyton immediately comes to mind.

I say it's more about team goals because if you are not expected to go far then teams tend to get their rookies out there early because no experience beats game experience. Teams that think they may have a chance at doing great things tend to go with the safer option instead of allowing the rookie to bump their head.

Jamies Winston is doing alright. Carr started pretty early and he's doing ok.
Goff sat almost all year and played bad. Jamarcus Russell sat for a while. Manziel didn't play right away.

I completely disagree with the whole notion of "playing guys when they're ready" having more long term success.

Even guys that sit don't come off the bench as the qbs they eventually become. Rodgers sat for years behind favre and when he got his chance there were still things that he needed to work on.

Russell Wilsin played right away and was good, but got better the more he played.

Alex Smith played right away and was bad.....until he linked up with better coaches. His career wasn't ruined because he had failure early and was considered a huge bust.

If a guy is good, he's good. If a guy doesn't have it and doesn't put in the work it doesn't matter if he sits or plays and vice versa.

If this was really about Watson sitting until some mystical point in time when the coaches really felt he could take the field as a starter then he'd be 3rd string behind Weeden.

But that's not what it's about despite the coach speak. What it's about is that OB feels like Savage gives him the best chance to win because he thinks right now he's better. If the goal was to let Watson marinate then he wouldn't be one snap away from taking the field. Otherwise you're scrapping your whole plan of letting your future Qb fully learn before taking the field based on one potential bad landing from a guy who's been hurt every year of his career.
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Probably the best post in this entire thread ....
 
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