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Save us Savage!!!!!!!

I sure hope Allen gets healthy and bounces back this year.
Not to derail this thread, but on several posts in the past I have pointed out that a significant explanation for Allen's downturn in performance compared to when he was with the Chiefs was lower limb injuries which he never had enough time to rest and recover from. But one point that has never been brought out is that throughout his career leading up to his arrival here, he has always played LG (as opposed to RG which he was positioned to play for the first time ever last season).
 
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So do I. I just don't see this relationship lasting much longer. They still won't have a QB good enough to get them anywhere, and OB is likely gone after this season. Smith will get to pick another HC. After a year of being out of football, it wouldn't totally surprise me to see them make a push for Kubiak again if he ends up expressing that he'd like to come back to coaching. I don't think we've seen the last of Kubiak personally, and I think he was just taking a break based on the health situation and to get out of Denver where his relationship got rocky with Elway. Stranger things have happened, that's for sure. Mcnair loved Kubiak.

..........Until Kubiak's QB on-field decision did not match up with McNair off-field opinion..........
 
I agree with what you're saying, but maybe the reality is that OB doesn't want to stay. I honestly think he will be snatched up very quickly if he's fired and will have full control of personnel when/if that happens. I think that's what OB wants, in the long run, and it's not happening in Houston.
From the response around the League last season to the Texans possibility of getting rid of O'Brien (even shopping him for draft picks), if under the present circumstances it does indeed come to be the Texans are likely to become more of a Front Office joke than they have been.
 
This isn't about BOB, you would know this if you were on the MB during the Kubiak era. What I want is a HC/GM that are on the same page and come in with a single goal to make this franchise the most successful it can be.

Not having a Gm who stabs his HC in the back like Ricky McNair did to Kubiak and is currently doing to BOB. If you cant see what's going on then you're blind. Unfortunately things wont get better until Ricky is gone and that doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. So I don't expect a SB in the near future or until McNair dies. Because the real things that are wrong with the on field product lays at the feet of the McNairs.


Come on steel with all these false accusations . Rick did not stab Kubiak in the back. Kubiak bit the hand that fed him by trotting Matt Schaub back out on the field.

Man is this the real reason why you have so much disdain in your heart for this man. You thinking he stab his buddy in the back. Why would he do that good sir?
 
Come on steel with all these false accusations . Rick did not stab Kubiak in the back. Kubiak bit the hand that fed him by trotting Matt Schaub back out on the field.

Man is this the real reason why you have so much disdain in your heart for this man. You thinking he stab his buddy in the back. Why would he do that good sir?

You might want to check the history again.
 
I swear Steel I think the only way you would be happy is if O'Brien was HC, GM, owner, OC, QB, special teams coach, Texans announcer, president of the Texans official fan club, the person in the Torro costume and head cheerleader.

Anything or anyone else involved with the Texans you think are screwing things up and keeping the football messiah that is Bill O'Brien from leading us to the football promised land. Give it a rest already, you've beaten the dead horse so much even the buzzards couldn't find any meat on it.

I do have to ask though what is it about O'Brien you like so much? True the guy got some great stats out of Hoyer and Fritz but they still crumbled when it mattered and of his two signature QBs, one can't stay healthy enough to even last 1/4 of a season and the other couldn't set an alarm clock.

O'Brien mainly rode in on what he'd done in New England but my little cousin could be a great QB coach as long as the QB is Tom Brady.

His job at Penn State was the main thing that made him become the hot candidate he was when we hired him. NE was a plus and it mattered, but he was highly praised for turning around the Penn State program and keeping it from going into the dumps after the Paterno situation.
 
This isn't about BOB, you would know this if you were on the MB during the Kubiak era. What I want is a HC/GM that are on the same page and come in with a single goal to make this franchise the most successful it can be.

Not having a Gm who stabs his HC in the back like Ricky McNair did to Kubiak and is currently doing to BOB. If you cant see what's going on then you're blind. Unfortunately things wont get better until Ricky is gone and that doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. So I don't expect a SB in the near future or until McNair dies. Because the real things that are wrong with the on field product lays at the feet of the McNairs.


Well if you truly believe that then the possible solutions for you are limited because HCs will come and go, GMs will come and go but owners tend to not give up their teams very often so most likely the McNairs are here to stay.

With that in mind ultimately the team is his to do with as he pleases. You've complained that all he cares about is making money well hell yeah that's what he cares about. I'm sorry was he suppose to just sink money into a football team with nothing coming back just so Houston can say they have an NFL team again?

There are 32 teams and of those 32 only one is publicly owned and non-profit so that means there are 31 owners that mostly care about making money. I promise you if Kraft thought that he would make more money without Brady and BB they would be out tomorrow.

Ultimately this all comes down to the fact you don't like how the McNairs run the team. Well then either stop watching or even better go buy your own team. Beyond those two things there is really nothing you, me or anyone on this board can do and constantly griping and posting about it just gets old.
 
Even if BOB wins I think McNair lets him go and probably trades BOB for a draft pick. BOB just not enough of a yes man and calls out what he thinks is wrong with the Texans org.

Bob/Ricky McNair will have none of this. Gotta toe the company line regardless if the company line impedes winning. I've found BOB's stepping out of the company line and letting us know how talent is acquired this offseason to be quite refreshing.

BOB wanted to go McNair wouldn't let him and now it appears that BOB doesn't care what Bob/Ricky McNair want, he's going to say what he wants.
You love you some BOB.
This isn't about BOB, you would know this if you were on the MB during the Kubiak era. What I want is a HC/GM that are on the same page and come in with a single goal to make this franchise the most successful it can be.

Not having a Gm who stabs his HC in the back like Ricky McNair did to Kubiak and is currently doing to BOB. If you cant see what's going on then you're blind. Unfortunately things wont get better until Ricky is gone and that doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. So I don't expect a SB in the near future or until McNair dies. Because the real things that are wrong with the on field product lays at the feet of the McNairs.
Oh please.
 
You love you some BOB.
Oh please.

Long before you were on this MB, or BOB was named HC, I've talked about how poorly the Texans have been run, IF their ultimate goal was to win a championship. I hoped their mentality would change with the hiring of BOB. It didn't.

So believe whatever you want it really doesn't matter to me.
 
Well if you truly believe that then the possible solutions for you are limited because HCs will come and go, GMs will come and go but owners tend to not give up their teams very often so most likely the McNairs are here to stay.

With that in mind ultimately the team is his to do with as he pleases. You've complained that all he cares about is making money well hell yeah that's what he cares about. I'm sorry was he suppose to just sink money into a football team with nothing coming back just so Houston can say they have an NFL team again?

There are 32 teams and of those 32 only one is publicly owned and non-profit so that means there are 31 owners that mostly care about making money. I promise you if Kraft thought that he would make more money without Brady and BB they would be out tomorrow.

Ultimately this all comes down to the fact you don't like how the McNairs run the team. Well then either stop watching or even better go buy your own team. Beyond those two things there is really nothing you, me or anyone on this board can do and constantly griping and posting about it just gets old.

I'm just giving observations and you don't like them. Tough tit.

I really don't care how much $$$$ they make. I just want them to put the best people in place to have the best on field product as possible. So far in a decade and a half they've failed to do that. If you consider that whining so be it.

I was here saying the same things in 2010 and will continue to do so.

Good day sir.
 
This isn't about BOB, you would know this if you were on the MB during the Kubiak era. What I want is a HC/GM that are on the same page and come in with a single goal to make this franchise the most successful it can be.

Not having a Gm who stabs his HC in the back like Ricky McNair did to Kubiak and is currently doing to BOB. If you cant see what's going on then you're blind. Unfortunately things wont get better until Ricky is gone and that doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. So I don't expect a SB in the near future or until McNair dies. Because the real things that are wrong with the on field product lays at the feet of the McNairs.
In order for this to work, there has to be an hierarchy. The two positions can't have equal input.
 
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In order for this to work, there has to be an hierarchy. The two positions can't have equal input.

Well it appears Ricky has had more input for the last decade.

I want this franchise to be run the way the Pats franchise is ran with a guy who's willing to work as hard as BB. Ricky McNair aint that guy.
 
Well it appears Ricky has had more input for the last decade.

I want this franchise to be run the way the Pats franchise is ran with a guy who's willing to work as hard as BB. Ricky McNair aint that guy.
Ricky is dug in like a tick. Not happening. He's made some great moves and some horrible moves. I'd say he's about league average. McNair thinks differently.
 
Savage will probably get hurt in OTA's this dude isn't the future of anything he can't even hold a clipboard without developing elbow tendonitis
 
Savage will probably get hurt in OTA's this dude isn't the future of anything he can't even hold a clipboard without developing elbow tendonitis

maybe being the starter will change things...

maybe before he just had too much time on his hands...

if you know what I mean :D
 
Ricky is dug in like a tick. Not happening. He's made some great moves and some horrible moves. I'd say he's about league average. McNair thinks differently.

Yep and that's why they're a .500 team.

This is why I don't think McNair really cares about winning. He cares more about the fan experience. Which explains the whole Texans worthy thingy. This model has made him a ton of $$$$.
 
This may be more of a question for CND. Considering the injuries Savage has had, how many of those injuries really would have put him in IR if he was the unquestioned starter? Lots of guys play injured, or miss short amounts of time and teams are known to stash young players on IR that they want to develop.
 
This may be more of a question for CND. Considering the injuries Savage has had, how many of those injuries really would have put him in IR if he was the unquestioned starter? Lots of guys play injured, or miss short amounts of time and teams are known to stash young players on IR that they want to develop.

The shoulder injury that kept him out in IR for his second season I think doesn't get him put on IR if he was the unquestioned starter. That same kind of hit with the QB being driven into the ground has knocked a lot of guys out for the game but if the Texans thought he wasn't in their plans at that point in time (with Hoyer and Mallet in competition for the starting gig) then them stashing him on IR for the year is easily explained. They were able to keep another player who they thought would see the field by doing that.

The knee in his rookie year was just an injury. It happens. His elbow last year was worrying IMO. The concussion was "who knows". "Incredibly ill-timed" comes to mind. Understandable that it could happen to anyone but damn it really screwed up our ability to clearly see who he was. The question will always be in our minds what he might have done or not done in the playoffs. We'd have had a great chance to see what he could bring there. Now we're more in the dark than ever.
 
So much prognostication and long term thinking. This is a best case scenario one year MAYBE two swing for the fence. This team is set to win now.

So in this fantasy at the best of their abilities and healthy scenario who tilts a championship scale Romo, Savage any FA or draft worthy QB?

Romo gets hurt? Okay this team in my eyes tried everything they could. Next logical step is to draft a first round blue chipper and go from there.

Lingering in mediocrity is the worst thing to do.
 
Ricky is dug in like a tick. Not happening. He's made some great moves and some horrible moves. I'd say he's about league average. McNair thinks differently.
Yet based on a lot of former football people's opinions we are merely a quality Qb from having a Super Bowl contender. That seems to me to show that RS has done a bit more than a solid job.

We may not be on the verge of a Dynasty but we could compete for a title or two as the team stands now. I'd be happy with that.
 
So much prognostication and long term thinking. This is a best case scenario one year MAYBE two swing for the fence. This team is set to win now.

So in this fantasy at the best of their abilities and healthy scenario who tilts a championship scale Romo, Savage any FA or draft worthy QB?

Romo gets hurt? Okay this team in my eyes tried everything they could. Next logical step is to draft a first round blue chipper and go from there.

Lingering in mediocrity is the worst thing to do.
yep but that "blue chip" has to be there to be drafted. I'm not sure there is a blue chip prospect 2017 draft. For me there is way too much "well Dallas got a starter day 3.." as if that happens each year.
 
So much prognostication and long term thinking. This is a best case scenario one year MAYBE two swing for the fence. This team is set to win now.

So in this fantasy at the best of their abilities and healthy scenario who tilts a championship scale Romo, Savage any FA or draft worthy QB?

Romo gets hurt? Okay this team in my eyes tried everything they could. Next logical step is to draft a first round blue chipper and go from there.

Lingering in mediocrity is the worst thing to do.


Thank you! What is so hard about this? I didn't want Romo at all, but realistically he is the only shot they have. THey put themselves in a corner and they might as well give up draft picks for him since they already have.
 
Yet based on a lot of former football people's opinions we are merely a quality Qb from having a Super Bowl contender. That seems to me to show that RS has done a bit more than a solid job.

We may not be on the verge of a Dynasty but we could compete for a title or two as the team stands now. I'd be happy with that.
Smith has admittedly done well in the 1st round, ufda's and street signings during the season, but what is seriously holding this team back, besides QB play, is ST's and depth. Smith constantly misses in rounds 2-5, which is where successful teams build ST's and depth.
 
yep but that "blue chip" has to be there to be drafted. I'm not sure there is a blue chip prospect 2017 draft. For me there is way too much "well Dallas got a starter day 3.." as if that happens each year.

But because you don't think there is doesn't mean there isn't. Nobody saw Dak coming on like he did and if it wasn't for, not 1 but TWO QBs in front of him getting injured, we still wouldn't know anything about Dak.
 
yep but that "blue chip" has to be there to be drafted. I'm not sure there is a blue chip prospect 2017 draft. For me there is way too much "well Dallas got a starter day 3.." as if that happens each year.

It doesn't have to be this years draft. I don't have specifics with players but I thought I read the next few years had some solid pro prospects coming out.
 
Thank you! What is so hard about this? I didn't want Romo at all, but realistically he is the only shot they have. THey put themselves in a corner and they might as well give up draft picks for him since they already have.

Worrying about 3 years from now or even more is pointless with this nucleus. It's super bowl or bust.
 
Smith has admittedly done well in the 1st round, ufda's and street signings during the season, but what is seriously holding this team back, besides QB play, is ST's and depth. Smith constantly misses in rounds 2-5, which is where successful teams build ST's and depth.
Very few GM's fall into the elite category but our team with a quality Qb and no serious injuries to key players is a contender. That is better than a great deal of teams in the NFL.
 
This may be more of a question for CND. Considering the injuries Savage has had, how many of those injuries really would have put him in IR if he was the unquestioned starter? Lots of guys play injured, or miss short amounts of time and teams are known to stash young players on IR that they want to develop.

The shoulder injury that kept him out in IR for his second season I think doesn't get him put on IR if he was the unquestioned starter. That same kind of hit with the QB being driven into the ground has knocked a lot of guys out for the game but if the Texans thought he wasn't in their plans at that point in time (with Hoyer and Mallet in competition for the starting gig) then them stashing him on IR for the year is easily explained. They were able to keep another player who they thought would see the field by doing that.

The knee in his rookie year was just an injury. It happens. His elbow last year was worrying IMO. The concussion was "who knows". "Incredibly ill-timed" comes to mind. Understandable that it could happen to anyone but damn it really screwed up our ability to clearly see who he was. The question will always be in our minds what he might have done or not done in the playoffs. We'd have had a great chance to see what he could bring there. Now we're more in the dark than ever.

A grade 2 A-C separation in the throwing arm, which Savage sustained, would be a very tough injury for a quarterback to return to play in a short period. An athlete with a grade 2 separation is ready to return to throwing when he has full range of motion of the shoulder and can tolerate the level of pain. Yes, pain tolerance is part of this, but there is a significant mechanical component too. Remember, even Tom Brady had surgery to deal with what was reported as a grade 2 injury after he played through a quarter or so of pain. An A-C separation is far from a couple week recovery.......it can easily be a 6-8 week or even longer rehab to be a fully function QB. If Savage were an established starter at that time, the Texans may have tried to have waited the rehab out............and still he may have not made it back good enough to sustain whatever would have been left of the season.............and meanwhile, the Texans had significant holes in their roster and waiting could have very well been a double whammy.

Here's a piece that can illustrate that it is not smart to return too soon from an A-C separation if you are an establish elite starting QB.:
*************************************************************************************************************************
Brady undergoes shoulder surgery
By Michael Smith, Globe Staff | February 26, 2004

It's clear now, six weeks later, why some of the Patriots seemed to take exception to the talk about how tough the Tennessee Titans were, particularly quarterback Steve McNair and running back Eddie George. For one, the Patriots aren't allowed to talk about their injuries. New England's players play hurt, too, starting with quarterback Tom Brady.

Like McNair, Brady, as it turns out, can play at a high level without the benefit of practice. The two-time Super Bowl MVP recently underwent arthroscopic surgery on his right shoulder to "alleviate some lingering soreness," according to a statement released by the team, from a separation suffered near the end of the 2002 season. Apparently Brady is not the superstitious type, as the procedure was done in Boston Friday, Feb. 13. It took 30-45 minutes.

Brady, who is wearing only a small bandage on his shoulder indicative of a minor operation, is looking at about a six-week recovery period. In their statement, the Patriots characterized the quarterback's prognosis as "excellent."

Brady originally injured his throwing shoulder Dec. 16, 2002, at Tennessee. Attempting a pass at the end of the first half, Brady suffered a first-degree separation on a hit from Tennessee's Jevon Kearse. Brady completed 14 of 29 passes in that game (48 percent), one of three games in 52 career starts in which he has completed fewer than half his attempts. He was limited the following week in a home loss to the New York Jets, in which he completed 19 of 37 (51 percent). In the victory over Miami in the 2002 finale, Brady reinjured the shoulder, this time sustaining a second-degree separation.

Brady rehabilitated for several months the following offseason rather than have surgery.
He played in the Pebble Beach National Pro-Am and participated in the "Quarterback Challenge," winning the distance competition with a throw of 62 yards. And he looked sharp in the 2003 exhibition season, throwing six touchdown passes and no interceptions.

But it wasn't all good for Brady. He was on painkillers and anti-inflammatories all last season. It was so bad, in fact, that the Patriots, in an attempt to preserve their franchise quarterback's arm, held Brady out of Wednesday practices. Some weeks, he only practiced on Friday.

Things got worse in Week 2 when Brady banged his right elbow on another player's helmet. His elbow swelled to the size of a grapefruit and bothered him for some 10 weeks.

The shoulder pain, meanwhile, never went away. He could hear the joint clicking when he threw. Teammates heard him grunt after passes. It hurt to lift his right arm. Throughout the year he wore a protective sleeve that extended from his wrist to his shoulder.

"He couldn't throw," one offensive teammate said. "A lot of people didn't know how bad it was. He was hurting." Brady also took a helmet to one of his thighs in the regular-season finale against Buffalo. Fortunately for him, a bye week followed. And then there was the bum ankle he played with for part of the year.

But Brady's physical problems rarely manifested themselves in the team's results. Brady finished third in league MVP voting and led New England to a 17-2 record (including postseason), including 15 consecutive wins to end the season. He won his second Super Bowl MVP award by completing 32 of 48 attempts for 354 yards and 3 touchdowns.

"In a team sport you don't want to let anybody down," Brady said in September, after aggravating his elbow injury against the Jets in Week 3.

A week after the Super Bowl, Brady continued to play through pain -- in the Pebble Beach National Pro-Am. He barely could swing his golf club. According to a report in Wednesday's Palm Beach Post, he did not play in the Dan Marino Foundation Celebrity Invitational because of surgery less than two weeks ago.

************************************************************************************

His ACL is almost an initiation for a QB, as is an A-C shoulder separation. Furthermore, understand that an A-C shoulder separation does not have the same serious long term implications that a shoulder dislocation carries...........a distinction that many nonmedical people do not tend to make.

Finally, Savage's elbow problem was an infected bursa sac (not of the joint). This condition can occur following any injury at the end of the elbow if there is a skin break, such as an insect bite, scrape, or puncture wound, where bacteria can enter the bursa sac and cause an infection.
elbow_bursitis_cause02.jpg


bursitis-of-the-elbow.jpg



To conclude from these injuries that Savage is "injury prone" or that he is ikely to have long term effects from any of them at this point is probably somewhat disingenuous.
 
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Yet based on a lot of former football people's opinions we are merely a quality Qb from having a Super Bowl contender. That seems to me to show that RS has done a bit more than a solid job.

We may not be on the verge of a Dynasty but we could compete for a title or two as the team stands now. I'd be happy with that.

This is a bunch of talk. Whoever says we are a QB away from a Super Bowl is taking a complete shot in the dark. An ex player's opinion who is fighting to keep their TV job means zero. We're so desperate for a competent QB that we will believe these fantasies. We have no idea how good this team is until we actually see some decent QB play. This offense was putrid last year.
 
This is a bunch of talk. Whoever says we are a QB away from a Super Bowl is taking a complete shot in the dark. An ex player's opinion who is fighting to keep their TV job means zero. We're so desperate for a competent QB that we will believe these fantasies. We have no idea how good this team is until we actually see some decent QB play. This offense was putrid last year.
We finished 9-7 every season
since coach BO'b took over with piss poor to barely average Qb play. As much as I have questioned the way the offense has been run we still did better than a lot of other teams would do. I hold out hope we get a Qb worth a darned so we can better judge coach B'Ob as an offensive coordinator and play caller.
 
I wouldn't say that when guys like FitzTragic and Hoyerable had their best statistical seasons in his offense.

Maybe Os simply failed at the learning part of the job ?!

And you know I'm no OB fan .... just pointing out the facts and giving an alternative possibility.

Fitzmagic & Hoyer were more about holding them back, not teaching them. Mallett, Savage, Osweiler... they don't know what they don't know.

& yes, maybe Os just couldn't learn. We saw what he was in Denver, we saw what he was here, we'll see what he is somewhere else.
 
So he won't be the starter for the 1st half of the season?

No. Romo will. (Kidding.)

I don't think you were trying to be so literal. You know if someone said that they wanted the next Brett Favre doesn't mean they are expecting their QB to send **** picks to a reporter too.
 
Because we know he sux in the teaching QB part of the job?
I am not sure how to address this. I think he did a fair job working with what he had and while I railed at the way he called offense many times, I can see where he may have felt hindered to some extent by not having better Qb's to work with. Then again it seems last season our Wr's had a hard time getting open many times.

Hell, what this basically means is I may just be in the dark on this whole team and situation. I am almost tired of trying to figure it all out. I hold out hope that O'b gets his kind of Qb,"if there is indeed such a thing," so as to properly place a grade on his job as head coach and offensive coordinator.
 
I hold out hope that O'b gets his kind of Qb,"if there is indeed such a thing," so as to properly place a grade on his job as head coach and offensive coordinator.

OB seems to prefer big armed QBs. Prior to OB the Texans only big arm was Carr (and that was under Cass not RS). Since OB there's Weeden, Mallett, Savage and Oz.
 
OB seems to prefer big armed QBs. Prior to OB the Texans only big arm was Carr (and that was under Cass not RS). Since OB there's Weeden, Mallett, Savage and Oz.

With Romo apparently going to Denver, Obie is probably happy that he has 2 of his big-armed QB's still on the roster. It just seems to me that O'Brien is going with the guys (Savage & Weeden) that know his system best for 2017. I'm good with this.
 
With Romo apparently going to Denver, Obie is probably happy that he has 2 of his big-armed QB's still on the roster. It just seems to me that O'Brien is going with the guys (Savage & Weeden) that know his system best for 2017. I'm good with this.

smh
 
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