SAINTS HOLD ON while BUSH HOLDS OUT?

[CloakNNNdagger]

Looks like Bush is indeed looking for a "better deal than what Houston gave Mario":


July 19, 2006
HOLD OUT LIKELY

New Orleans Saints top draft pick Reggie Bush will likely be a holdout when the team opens training camp in Jackson next week, a representative of the star running back told the Clarion-Ledger today.

Mike Ornstein, Bush's marketing agent, said Bush and the Saints "probably" won't agree to terms on a contract until after camp starts.

The Saints report to Millsaps College on July 27 and will start practice the following afternoon on the campus just north of downtown Jackson.

"Do we feel like he'll be there at the start?" Ornstein said in a telephone interview from his California office. "I'm not sure where we are right now. I'd say probably not, at this stage."

Bush, the Heisman Trophy winner out of Southern Cal, was the No. 2 overall pick in April's NFL draft. During the Saints' rookie mini-camp in May, Bush said he told his team of agents to do whatever they needed to make sure a deal was reached that would allow him to report to camp on time.

Saints general manager Mickey Loomis did not immediately respond to an interview request. The Saints have signed three of their eight 2006 draft picks in the past 10 days. But the team's top four picks remain unsigned a week before players report, which is not uncommon among NFL teams. Many deals, especially ones involving higher-round picks, typically get done weeks into training camp.

Apparently at issue is whether the Saints will offer Bush, who many rated as the top player in the draft, a better deal than what Houston gave Mario Williams when the Texans surprisingly chose the former North Carolina State defensive end first overall.

Williams has reportedly agreed to a six-year deal worth $54 million, with $26.5 million in guaranteed pay.

Ornstein is one of at least two lead members of a team that handles Bush's professional matters. Ornstein said he primarily negotiates the player's endorsement deals. Joel Segal, who will negotiate Bush's contract with the Saints, declined to comment when reached on his cell phone this afternoon.

Ornstein's comments come a day after the agent for former Texas quarterback Vince Young, the No. 3 overall pick, said he was heading to Nashville to get a deal done in time for Young to open camp with the Tennessee Titans late next week.

Ornstein said Bush is in Los Angeles, where he shot a commercial for Pepsi on Tuesday and has been working out on the USC campus.

"He's been training and getting himself ready," Ornstein said. "Reggie's going to be fine."

 

[texan279]

Just makes us taking Mario that much sweeter. Cannot believe the guy wants more money than Williams.

 

[swtbound07]

As much as a hate reggie....and believe me i do...THIS irks me to no end

New Orleans Saints top draft pick Reggie Bush will likely be a holdout when the team opens training camp in Jackson next week, a representative of the star running back told the Clarion-Ledger today.

Reggie IS NOT a holdout. By the very nature of the term, he CANT be a holdout. He has NEVER had a contract. He is unsigned, but not a holdout. Holdouts are people who have contracts and refuse to show up

 

[texan279]

As much as a hate reggie....and believe me i do...THIS irks me to no end

New Orleans Saints top draft pick Reggie Bush will likely be a holdout when the team opens training camp in Jackson next week, a representative of the star running back told the Clarion-Ledger today.

Reggie IS NOT a holdout. By the very nature of the term, he CANT be a holdout. He has NEVER had a contract. He is unsigned, but not a holdout. Holdouts are people who have contracts and refuse to show up

Anyone who is in any kind of negotiation can be considered a hold out, you don't have to have any kind of contract signed to be considered a hold out.

Hold Out - To refuse to reach or satisfy an agreement. LINK

 

[SF49erFaithful]

What makes me mad is that it seems like he can't accept the fact he wasn't taken #1 overall, so he wants to be paid like he was.

I say that is lame if he gets the money he wants, he deserves #2 $$$$$$

 

[Coach C.]

Personally I think Bush should get as much as he can for the shortest amount of years he can spend in NO. No reason to want to stay in NO and hell I would need a huge bonus if I ever had to work there.

 

[STEEL BLUE TEXANS]

Tell me what IS 2nd pick money??????

LESS than 1st overall pick money.

 

[cap1]

But more than 3rd pick money

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Anyone who is in any kind of negotiation can be considered a hold out, you don't have to have any kind of contract signed to be considered a hold out.

Hold Out - To refuse to reach or satisfy an agreement. LINK

**********

Exactly.......It's time to stop splitting hairs........when DRAFTED, his RIGHTS are held by the Saints in EXPECTATION of a NEGOTIATED consumating PLAYING CONTRACT. While the Saints hold his rights, he cannot negotiate with any other club and is EXPECTED to COMPLETE his contract........., but he is HOLDING OUT completing this process.

 

[Huge]

Anyone who is in any kind of negotiation can be considered a hold out, you don't have to have any kind of contract signed to be considered a hold out.

Hold Out - To refuse to reach or satisfy an agreement.

**********

Exactly.......It's time to stop splitting hairs........when DRAFTED, his RIGHTS are held by the Saints in EXPECTATION of a NEGOTIATED consumating PLAYING CONTRACT. While the Saints hold his rights, he cannot negotiate with any other club and is EXPECTED to COMPLETE his contract........., but he is HOLDING OUT completing this process.

So if the Saints organization is also refusing to reach or satisfy an agreement (give Bush what he's asking for), aren't they every bit as guilty of being a "hold-out"?

It's a two-way street.

 

[infantrycak]

So if the Saints organization is also refusing to reach or satisfy an agreement (give Bush what he's asking for), aren't they every bit as guilty of being a "hold-out"?

It's a two-way street.

Sure--then the question is if either side is being unreasonable in holding out.

 

[Chicagotexan1]

This could almost as stupid as Rivers holdout of 04. Makes no sense at all. Reggie is not the only guy that feels he should have gone higher but didn't. You are not #1, so how can you get piad more? Oh wait, I bet he'll say "But I have a family to feed". More like ego to feed.

 

[Texans_Chick]

So far he i a hold out along with about 30 other 1st round draft picks.. second of all training camp hasn't even started. and to all that says he should get 2nd pick money.. Tell me what IS 2nd pick money??????

Unlike most of those first round picks, he already has money coming out of his behind for all the endorsement contracts he has signed. He can monetarily afford to hold out, but in the big scheme of things, it would work out better for him not to try to take every nickle so that he doesn't miss camp reps, and because of image issues involved with not being satisfied with being a multi, multi-millionaire in a disaster zone.

If he wants to play well enough to be deserving of the hype, the best way of that happening is to get into camp pronto.

They are doing the negotiation dance. It will be interesting to see how serious it gets.

And as an aside, the Texans would have been poorly situated for doing that dance this year. There is enough change and learning going on without worrying if you can get your picks in camp.

 

[Algebrat]

Unlike most of those first round picks, he already has money coming out of his behind for all the endorsement contracts he has signed. He can monetarily afford to hold out, but in the big scheme of things, it would work out better for him not to try to take every nickle so that he doesn't miss camp reps, and because of image issues involved with not being satisfied with being a multi, multi-millionaire in a disaster zone.

If he wants to play well enough to be deserving of the hype, the best way of that happening is to get into camp pronto.

They are doing the negotiation dance. It will be interesting to see how serious it gets.

And as an aside, the Texans would have been poorly situated for doing that dance this year. There is enough change and learning going on without worrying if you can get your picks in camp.

Good points all (as usual). This whole thread is a bit premature. Most of the first round picks aren't signed until a few days before camps begin. Does that mean they are ALL (almost) currently holding out? NO...

RB is doing what any other pick would/should do at this point. Give the impression that they want/deserve a bigger contract than they should. It will help at the bargaining table when they get to it.

 

[Double Barrel]

RB is doing what any other pick would/should do at this point.

Except Mario Williams.

 

[Mr. White]

It seems like he's probably too image-conscious to say anything that might make him seem selfish. I remember pre-draft interviews in which he talked only about being the #1 pick as opposed to being a Texan.

While he may have said things to make him not seem selfish, he hasn't done much to make him not seem selfish.

Having said that, I think that he could give one hell of a lift to NO and I hope that I'm wrong for the sake of NO fans.

 

[TexansJunkE]

Hey Saint why are you curious why we think Reggie is selfish or not. Here's my opinion " I don't care about Reggie Bust one bit." Just see how he puts N.O. on the map, Like he said. Man, I'm glad we have Mario rahter than this character. Saying he wants to be on the field in TC and showing actions that he wants to be there are 2 different situations.

 

[Mr. White]

Man are you serious?? So he's saying things that might not make him seem so selfish? He talked about being #1 pick instead of the Texans?????????? (maybe because he wasn't sure if he'd be a Texan) And have you seen or heard what he has done for New Orleans as for as contributions???

He has to do the charity circuit because he doesn't want Saints fans pissed at him when he holds out. Pre-emptive damage control.

You asked for opinions and I gave mine. We'll know just how selfish he is when he has to share a backfield with a proven veteran.

 

[TD]

Who knows until Bush does or doesn't sign. Another problem is that Benson apparently wants out of town. What better way to help ensure poor attendance (and an excuse to leave) than not signing Bush? Something to think about.

IMO, the #1 picks will start to sign after Young does. My gut feeling is Bush will hold out. Whether it's him, Benson, or both I don't know.

 

[swtbound07]

I go to this site cause i'm also a Texan fan. and seeing all the negative post about Reggie and other players... And then going to the saints site and NOT seeing them talking Neg. about other players makes me wonder why there's so much jeajoulsly about Reggie because you're front office didn,t pick him.

No. Im not jealous of Reggie Bush, and if you want to research, was ANTI-Bush for a longgggg time before the rose bowl, before the Bush Bowl, before any of that. I think he is the most overhyped, overrated, useless player to come out of the draft in quite some time. If I was a franchise I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. He is a glorified scatback, and thats all he will ever be. He's Brian Westbrook with a lower ceiling. Its not jealousy, its pointing out idiocy. He wants to be paid like a #1 overall pick. He WASNT. Not because they couldn't sign him, but because we didn't WANT him. I wouldnt trade mario williams straight up for reggie bush, not in a million years. I wouldn't even give you David Carr for Reggie Bush, and i cant STAND him.

 

[TexansJunkE]

I go to this site cause i'm also a Texan fan. and seeing all the negative post about Reggie and other players... And then going to the saints site and NOT seeing them talking Neg. about other players makes me wonder why there's so much jeajoulsly about Reggie because you're front office didn,t pick him.

Sorry my friend you mistake being annoyed with jealousy. After watching the Rose bowl it showed that Reggie Bust is something that ESPN has created. He was a great college football player, but being great in the college ranks does not mean you are great in the pro's. let's dee what he does in season before we talk about jealousy. Fair enough?

P.S. he is the Desmond Howard of the 2000's.

 

[tulexan]

I would say that the Saints are holding all of the bargaining chips right now. They already have a proven pro bowl back in Deuce McAlister, a capable starter in Michael Bennett, and the logic of a #2 pick getting less money than a #1 pick.

Benson is a cheap owner and will hold on to every penny that he can. If Reggie is unwilling to budge from getting a better contract than Mario Williams then he won't be playing in New Orleans any time soon.

 

[infantrycak]

It wasn't deleted. It was merged into an existing thread which was already discussing the subject. This one will also be merged in a few minutes.

 

[infantrycak]

Is there a way to tell when a post is merged??

Only if it is moved to a different forum and then merged with another thread. If it is merged within the same forum you will just have to look around in the threads--in this case the CnD thread about Bush potentially holding out.

 

[Tyr]

show me or tell me why you think Reggie is being selfish... (hopefully this one won't be deleted.)

I rarely post but thought I would throw in my .02!

IMHO, and I could be way off base, I don't believe that the now perceived RB haters can be lumped as those wanting RB before the draft. I was personally on the fence between RB and Mario. Before the season ended, I was all about wanting RB and was thrilled when we got the first pick. I then started hearing tidbits about Mario and began to waiver a bit. As the draft was approaching, I leaned back towards RB looking at the excitement he good bring to a team. After the draft and getting over my initial anger, I began to realize that the Texans probably made the best choice for this team.

I think it is also important to see what was happening heading up to the draft. This board had an influx of new posters wanting RB or VY. The majority of those posters are now gone, what you have left are the true diehard fans that had legitimate posts/arguement towards players other than RB/VY. I truely feel those you are asking why they are suddenly jealous are many of the posters that looked a Mario, DBrick, etc, and jealousy is not a factor.

The other issue IMO was the hype machine. Here you had all the media riding RB's jock before college season ever ended. RB this, RB that, and on and on. Combine comes and suddenly the casual fan hears about Mario, but doesn't have anything other to go on and still wants RB. You now have RB stating is would be fine going to the Texans, would not be an issue signing before the draft, etc. Draft approaches and suddenly he isn't willing to sign and controversy hits. He now appears to be someone that talks a good game, but may be questionable behind the scenes.

The draft comes and goes and suddenly you have all these articles about Mario finding their way into the boards about his character, etc. You start seeing logical arguements as to why he could be a good fit, etc. You are now a week from TC and RB still isn't signed and even after being drafted #2, still stated a deal would get done. To add to it, he wants more than the #1 pick?

I don't buy the jealousy bit. I think many of the true fans (whether Texan fans or not) that have paid attention to everything that has happened since the draft, now have their doubts about RB's character. Texan fans were on the forefront of this draft unlike many other fans, so they/we have a lot of insight that other teams fans may not.

IMO, Texans got the better man and time will tell about the better player.

 

[swtbound07]

I rarely post but thought I would throw in my .02!

IMHO, and I could be way off base, I don't believe that the now perceived RB haters can be lumped as those wanting RB before the draft. I was personally on the fence between RB and Mario. Before the season ended, I was all about wanting RB and was thrilled when we got the first pick. I then started hearing tidbits about Mario and began to waiver a bit. As the draft was approaching, I leaned back towards RB looking at the excitement he good bring to a team. After the draft and getting over my initial anger, I began to realize that the Texans probably made the best choice for this team.

I think it is also important to see what was happening heading up to the draft. This board had an influx of new posters wanting RB or VY. The majority of those posters are now gone, what you have left are the true diehard fans that had legitimate posts/arguement towards players other than RB/VY. I truely feel those you are asking why they are suddenly jealous are many of the posters that looked a Mario, DBrick, etc, and jealousy is not a factor.

The other issue IMO was the hype machine. Here you had all the media riding RB's jock before college season ever ended. RB this, RB that, and on and on. Combine comes and suddenly the casual fan hears about Mario, but doesn't have anything other to go on and still wants RB. You now have RB stating is would be fine going to the Texans, would not be an issue signing before the draft, etc. Draft approaches and suddenly he isn't willing to sign and controversy hits. He now appears to be someone that talks a good game, but may be questionable behind the scenes.

The draft comes and goes and suddenly you have all these articles about Mario finding their way into the boards about his character, etc. You start seeing logical arguements as to why he could be a good fit, etc. You are now a week from TC and RB still isn't signed and even after being drafted #2, still stated a deal would get done. To add to it, he wants more than the #1 pick?

I don't buy the jealousy bit. I think many of the true fans (whether Texan fans or not) that have paid attention to everything that has happened since the draft, now have their doubts about RB's character. Texan fans were on the forefront of this draft unlike many other fans, so they/we have a lot of insight that other teams fans may not.

IMO, Texans got the better man and time will tell about the better player.

very nice post tyr

 

[Byshop]

Personally, his not being signed yet doesn't serprise me one bit. I'm so thankful we took Mario. So far Reggie has been nothing but one thing after another(IE..his parents getting into trouble with the house, him pulling a hamstring in OTA's, and now this) Now the drama will only continue...lol

Kubiac made the right decision, go with Mario. Our defence needed a stud on the line, not a better running back. Coaching and scheme will get the Texans all the ground yardage needed without paying out the wazzu for it.

 

[gwallaia]

Whoops!
Reggie is on the cover of SI this week. This does not bode well at all for the Saints.

 

[TexansJunkE]

I rarely post but thought I would throw in my .02!

IMHO, and I could be way off base, I don't believe that the now perceived RB haters can be lumped as those wanting RB before the draft. I was personally on the fence between RB and Mario. Before the season ended, I was all about wanting RB and was thrilled when we got the first pick. I then started hearing tidbits about Mario and began to waiver a bit. As the draft was approaching, I leaned back towards RB looking at the excitement he good bring to a team. After the draft and getting over my initial anger, I began to realize that the Texans probably made the best choice for this team.

I think it is also important to see what was happening heading up to the draft. This board had an influx of new posters wanting RB or VY. The majority of those posters are now gone, what you have left are the true diehard fans that had legitimate posts/arguement towards players other than RB/VY. I truely feel those you are asking why they are suddenly jealous are many of the posters that looked a Mario, DBrick, etc, and jealousy is not a factor.

The other issue IMO was the hype machine. Here you had all the media riding RB's jock before college season ever ended. RB this, RB that, and on and on. Combine comes and suddenly the casual fan hears about Mario, but doesn't have anything other to go on and still wants RB. You now have RB stating is would be fine going to the Texans, would not be an issue signing before the draft, etc. Draft approaches and suddenly he isn't willing to sign and controversy hits. He now appears to be someone that talks a good game, but may be questionable behind the scenes.

The draft comes and goes and suddenly you have all these articles about Mario finding their way into the boards about his character, etc. You start seeing logical arguements as to why he could be a good fit, etc. You are now a week from TC and RB still isn't signed and even after being drafted #2, still stated a deal would get done. To add to it, he wants more than the #1 pick?

I don't buy the jealousy bit. I think many of the true fans (whether Texan fans or not) that have paid attention to everything that has happened since the draft, now have their doubts about RB's character. Texan fans were on the forefront of this draft unlike many other fans, so they/we have a lot of insight that other teams fans may not.

IMO, Texans got the better man and time will tell about the better player.

Well done my man!

 

[Coach C.]

You look up my post and you know I was a Mario guy from the start, but I watch and know football so you can see talent. Bush has it in spades. If the kid is smart he will be in camp on time, hell first to report, because that will set the stage for him to take the starting job from Deuce. Deuce is hobbled right now and if Bush wants the job it is prime pancake plucking time, if ya know what I mean. One thing about Bush is he is not stupid, he will get a nice deal from the craptastic Saints and then if he does not hold out have the job by end of the first pre-season week.

 

[thunderkyss]

I go to this site cause i'm also a Texan fan. and seeing all the negative post about Reggie and other players... And then going to the saints site and NOT seeing them talking Neg. about other players makes me wonder why there's so much jeajoulsly about Reggie because you're front office didn,t pick him.

which Saints site are you talking about?? I've been doing damage control on Saints Report for a while........ granted, lately I had to pull up old threads, but still....

We could have signed REggie... alot of people wanted to sign Reggie(not me)... one of the reason we believe we didn't, was because we thought he'd be difficult to sign........

This just further proves our point.

Me, I couldn't care less. My point, was that we don't need a high dollar running back....... we don't need any more fast recievers..... we don't need another offensive weapon.

When we average 30 points in '06, my point will be made.

Reggie can be rookie of the year for all I care, it won't matter, as we'll avg 30ppg any way.

 

[sprtsfanatic]

According to KFFL.com reggie bush's agent states that reggie will most likely be a hold out for training camp due to contract issues....thank god the Texans went another route.

 

[TwinSisters]

According to KFFL.com reggie bush's agent states that reggie will most likely be a hold out for training camp due to contract issues....thank god the Texans went another route.

Unless he holds out, gets thrown back into the draft, we go 1-14, and then have to play Bush Bowl II vs Cleveland.

That could be a bad thing about him holding out.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

With no malicious intent intended, fans here, who were Pro Bush, were by and large Texans fans and are still Texans fans.

As someone who spit venom at drafting Bush I hold zero ill will for those who preferred Bush. However, those who still retain Bush avatars get the stink eye.

The Texan's tent is wide at the moment and getting filled to capacity with mounting enthusiastic pressure.

 

[TexanFan881]

If we would have picked Reggie Bush we would have signed him before the draft, so that would be a no issue. And we wouldn't have to be looking for a backup running back right now. What do you know, we would have been set right now. But we picked Mario...(not that that's horrible or anything I just prefer Bush)

 

[TwinSisters]

With no malicious intent intended, fans here, who were Pro Bush, were by and large Texans fans and are still Texans fans.

As someone who spit venom at drafting Bush I hold zero ill will for those who preferred Bush. However, those who still retain Bush avatars get the stink eye.

The Texan's tent is wide at the moment and getting filled to capacity with mounting enthusiastic pressure.

ACADEMIC TIMEOUT:

Is it
A. Texans' fans as in possessed by the plural Texans
or
B. Texans fans as in an adjective denoting fans with a particular characteristic

This has bothered me for quite sometime, please help a brother out.

---

Okay now back to our regularly scheduled Reggie Bush coverage

 

[Kaiser Toro]

ACADEMIC TIMEOUT:

Is it
A. Texans' fans as in possessed by the plural Texans
or
B. Texans fans as in an adjective denoting fans with a particular characteristic

This has bothered me for quite sometime, please help a brother out.

---

Okay now back to our regularly scheduled Reggie Bush coverage

Apostrophe needed, but not going to edit due to your insolence.

 

[TwinSisters]

Apostrophe needed, but not going to edit due to your insolence.

I am serious though.. are you supposed to be using an apostrophe?

( seriously asking )

( see I used it twice... )

I don't care about the post. I wanna know the TRUTH!!!!

Lay it on me. Knock me out!

 

[TexanFan881]

ACADEMIC TIMEOUT:

Is it
A. Texans' fans as in possessed by the plural Texans
or
B. Texans fans as in an adjective denoting fans with a particular characteristic

This has bothered me for quite sometime, please help a brother out.

It's A

 

[TwinSisters]

It's A

So B is illegal holding then?

 

[TexanFan881]

So B is illegal holding then?

lol yup

 

[Texan Asylum]

You guys are classic!

 

[Mr. White]

The apostophe implies ownership. As fans we aren't owned by the Texans....maybe some of us are that are:

a. playing fantasy football from our mom's house
b. in our 30's (or older)

Since both of these conditions don't apply to me and most of us, I'd prefer to think of us as Texans fans.

 

[TexanFan881]

wow I'm so confused now :brickwall I should have just sat on the bench

I think you're right now Battle Red.

 

[TwinSisters]

The apostophe implies ownership. As fans we aren't owned by the Texans....maybe some of us are that are:

a. playing fantasy football from our mom's house
b. in our 30's (or older)

Since both of these conditions don't apply to me and most of us, I'd prefer to think of us as Texans fans.

SoOooo... If Reggie Bush says, "I would like to thank my fans!" ( or Bob McNair in the case of the Texans ), what does that really mean then?

That you are really not his fans if you don't use the apostrophe?

 

[Kaiser Toro]

The apostophe implies ownership. As fans we aren't owned by the Texans....maybe some of us are that are:

a. playing fantasy football from our mom's house
b. in our 30's (or older)

Since both of these conditions don't apply to me and most of us, I'd prefer to think of us as Texans fans.

I have a T-shirt that says, "Property of the Houston Texans." Others, like myself, would then be Texans' fans.

 

[TexanFan881]

SoOooo... If Reggie Bush says, "I would like to thank my fans!" ( or Bob McNair in the case of the Texans ), what does that really mean then?

That you are really not his fans if you don't use the apostrophe?

That quote is right. Like Red Bull said there's no possesion. If the quote was "I would like to thank my fans' commitment of the Texans." The fans show possesion of commitment. I think that's right this time lol

 

[TwinSisters]

That quote is right. Like Red Bull said there's no possesion. If the quote was "I would like to thank my fans' commitment of the Texans." The fans show possesion of commitment. I think that's right this time lol

Okay so you not going to overturn your original call then?

If you are
Property of the Texans
The Houston Texans call you "our fans".
then you must use the apostrophe correct?

 

[TexanFan881]

Okay so you not going to overturn your original call then?

If you are
Property of the Texans
The Houston Texans call you "our fans".
then you must use the apostrophe correct?

In a sentence this is where you would use a apostrophe:
blah blah blah ____ _______ blah blah blah
.....................noun possesion.....................

Our fans is a statement and there is no possesion after fans so there would be no apostraphe.

 

[TwinSisters]

In a sentence this is where you would use a apostrophe:
blah blah blah ____ _______ blah blah blah
.....................noun possesion.....................

Our fans is a statement and there is no possesion after fans so there would be no apostraphe.

alright.

As Houston Texans' fans, you should be grateful that you didn't draft Bush.

Noun - Texans
Possession - fans

The fan is in possession of the Houston Texans

You wouldn't say
Here's the Houston Texans helmets.
You would say
Here's the Houston Texans' helmets.
so
Here's a Houston Texans' fan trying to figure out if he is a Houston Texan's fan or a Houston Texans fan.

See what I mean?

bah screw it!
---

Man I sure am miffed we didn't draft Bush.

eheh