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Sage to the Vikings
- Thread starter GlassHalfFull
- Start date
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I know because of the NFL these days it is hard to keep one QB upright through a full season but I am also a firm believer that you can't be scared to make moves like this and go into every season like you need QB1 and QB1A. That is what people have been doing with Sage. It is nice when a guy can play but you shouldn't plan on a second starter. Your plan is to have a top guy and have someone who can do spot duty and be effective and use the tools around the.....like rely on a strong running game and manage while the starter is out. Sage made many mistakes and he made plays too but he is the backup and someone is willing to give up useful picks. Managing scared doesn't work. Get a Patrick Ramsey or a Batch or someone who can manage and draft a kid who you think may grow and learn the system well.
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Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
No mater what/if the deal happens; it cannot be confirmed before Friday.
P
Polo
Guest
Diles didn't win the job, he just kept it.
He was annointed, but no one played well enough to take his spot.
Greenwood and Weaver didn't start losing their spots until their level of suckage just could no longer be compresed.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Here is the ESPN one...wasn't surte if I saw it here
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3928630
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
Is there a way to include TMac in this package? There are two words that have never been used in the same sentence.. Tmac & package. Is it possible that this could a conditional 4th that could escelate into more in the future if Sage does really well?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
What do you mean he just kept it?--he didn't start a single game in 2007. In the off-season Kubiak decided he had won the starting SLB job for 2008.
aka there was competition and once it got strong enough, a new starter was inserted.
All this no competition talk is just fan chatter. There hasn't been anything to indicate this coaching staff doesn't believe they are fielding the best team off the roster.
TimeKiller
Guest
When teams are willing to give something significant (I'd consider 4th round significant in this case) for a backup the decision is pretty easy. This is one mistake we'll have a 2nd shot at which is rare.
I don't even like that idea. I think we should continue to move QBs through here, until we find one that is special. Like a Romo, a Brady, or a Schaub. Then you keep him. When/if he ever gets on the field, it's his job to lose.
I think we screwed Sage, by making Matt the #1 right off the bat, but that's another story.
We need to sweet'n the pot with Minnesota. Throw in Weaver, and Anderson or Brown and get a second.
will742
Nukkkk
I really hope this happens. By the look of things a little more negotiation might be needed as far as the draft pick (hopefully 4th or even 3rd.. I can dream!)
Anyways, I think this could really help us out this offseason. Recieving a mid-round pick would allow the Texans to have a few bargaining chips in case they need to move up a spot or two in the 2nd to secure a coveted player that might have dropped. I'm fairly aware that the Texans never trade up under the Smith regime but at the same time this is the first year the front office has had all of their picks and more to work with (barring a minicamp 4th round deduction). I would love to throw a later pick in and pickup someone like a Louis Delmas in the second.
Just a little food for thought..
Anyways, I think this could really help us out this offseason. Recieving a mid-round pick would allow the Texans to have a few bargaining chips in case they need to move up a spot or two in the 2nd to secure a coveted player that might have dropped. I'm fairly aware that the Texans never trade up under the Smith regime but at the same time this is the first year the front office has had all of their picks and more to work with (barring a minicamp 4th round deduction). I would love to throw a later pick in and pickup someone like a Louis Delmas in the second.
Just a little food for thought..
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lol, if Sage only commands a 4th rounder, how do you think we're going to get a 2nd by throwing in garbage players?
Weaver is an overpriced, underperforming, post-injury DE we are about to cut. Anderson is a conditional WR with minimal experience, and Brown was injured all year and may never play again. How those guys equate to anything is beyond me
Sal Rosenberg
Rookie
We did screw Rosemary by not at least letting him compete with Matt.Good point.I would sweeten the deal by throwing in TJ
By the time we add in TJ, Weaver, and Brown, we may as well give the Vikings a 4th rounder and call it a day
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
We didn't screw anybody......Sage had his chance when Schaub was out (that's how backup QBs win jobs, by seizing the opportunity.) Sage failed and when Schaub came back it was blatantly obvious who the better QB was.
That's something else people don't realize, our coaching staff watches both these players every day in practice, if they felt Sage was better than Schaub, Schaub would be the one being dealt.
P
Polo
Guest
Pretty much exaclty what I said and the point I was trying to make. There wasn't much in game evidence to say that Diles would make a good starter at OLB, but once he was named the starter 'he kept it'.
Diles was named the starter in the off-season, but there was competition for his spot.
Greenwood and Weaver were over-paid and once we got to a point where we could afford to do it, we cut ties.
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The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
You know, "falls through" usually means "doesn't happen."
Your first sentence and the rest of your post belong in two different posts.
Sal Rosenberg
Rookie
I think Matt was the obvious choice.I just think they should have let them duke it out until preseason.I think the coachs were correct and Rosencopter needs to take off!
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
When you're on a football team, you're always in competition of the starter's spot. They "handed" the job to Schaub with good reason. He is a better QB and when you traded for him you're hoping he's your future franchise QB, so you let him get most of the reps.
Sage had his shot this year to prove he was better the Schaub and should be the starter. you know what he did? He fudged up and showed Kubiak that he couldn't handle it. End of story. If Sage goes out there and plays those 6 games like he was meant to be this teams starting QB, we'd have a QB controversy. During those games, he showed us he's never going to beat out Schaub. Go ahead and fault Kubiak though.
Sage had his shot this year to prove he was better the Schaub and should be the starter. you know what he did? He fudged up and showed Kubiak that he couldn't handle it. End of story. If Sage goes out there and plays those 6 games like he was meant to be this teams starting QB, we'd have a QB controversy. During those games, he showed us he's never going to beat out Schaub. Go ahead and fault Kubiak though.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And other than fan speculation we know this how? This kind of stuff is so irritating. One or more fans speculate about something and then it morphs into accepted fact.
Where was there even a whiff of a statement that Kubiak was ever not firmly convicted, by watching both Schaub and Sage practice and play, that Schaub was the better QB?
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
How are you supposed to know when they are special? Romo was 3rd stringer. Brady was a backup. Sage had his shot in many towns, including here and proved he was incapable of keeping a job because he can't protect the ball. He proved why he didn't become the starter in Miami or elsewhere. We didn't screw him.
These guys compete weekly in practice and in camp. The coaching staffs are there to evaluate. They obviously felt like Schaub was the starter. Last season bore out their decision with Sage losing a game on his own and doing what he has done all along..play great at times but making rookie mistakes that makes him a backup. So saying he never got a shot is pure speculation.
Beat me to it. Well said.
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Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Well, you said it better than I could. Nice post.
will742
Nukkkk
You know, "falls through" usually means "doesn't happen."
Your first sentence and the rest of your post belong in two different posts.
Haha thanks for that, I don't know where my head is this afternoon. Hopefully that edit fixes my oxymoron of a post.
Sal Rosenberg
Rookie
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It is just my opinion My friend.
Well then let me rephrase--why is that your opinion? Other than Schaub not being benched, what points to Kubiak never giving Sage a chance?
FYI--this issue wasn't directed solely to you but yours was the last example and so quoted. thunderkyss made a similar assertion--maybe he can substantiate his.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Any more news on Weaver?
Sal Rosenberg
Rookie
Didn't Kubiak give Matt the job before day 1?I was agreeing with the original poster.I really could care less if Sage got his feeling hurt or not .Kubiak made the right move.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
What news on Weaver?
badboy
Hall of Fame
Someone, somewhere on MB said he heard that Weaver was being cut. No verification yet.
Sal Rosenberg
Rookie
We need to throw him in the deal!
badboy
Hall of Fame
I understand your frustration, but if you were Vikings, would you want him and his contract?
I honestly would be happy if Bullman is our starting DE over Weaver. He's worked with Frank Bush his entire career and knows that Bush is going to be alot more aggressive.
I can almost see Bullman as a sleeping Kyle Vanden Bosch. Came from Arizona when nobody gave him a chance. Same scenario, could be the same outcome if only given a chance.
Pretty much as I recall. Sage was signed as a FA looking for a job, while we traded 2 second round picks for Matt.
Blake
MMQB
When you bring in a QB, pay two 2nd round draft picks, and give him a huge contract you are pretty much saying he is our guy. And I cant remember a single instance of Kubiak saying that Schaub will still have to battle Sage or that it was an open competition.
He never said that the job was Schaubs to lose, but then again I guess he never had to. That is my opinion.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I like Bulman but not as a starter, not yet anyway. I see Shaunessey, Ayers, Kreuger ahead of Bulman
I'm going with shear numbers........... they want a QB that might start, he should be at least a conditional 3rd. Weaver is a body they can get cheap since we've already given a lot of money to. He might not be a difference maker, but for the right price I'm sure he'll find a place on their team. Brown......... let's hope for the best.......... now Anderson, I think he's in the same spot that Walter was in when he was in Cincinatti. We're deep in talent at the WR position, otherwise he'd see more playing time.
I'd give them Sage & TJ for a second. But then we're stuck with Weaver.
We don't want to get stuck with Weaver. I wouldn't be surprised to see TJ really step up his game this year. It's TJ's contract year, right?
IMHO, if Kubiak truly felt the way he says he felt about Sage, we never would have brought Schaub in, and named him the starter before he even got to Houston.
I don't know that Sage couldn't have started for this team, and delivered two 8-8 seasons........ I'd have put my money on more than likely though.
I was never in favor of shelling out two 2nds, and a starters contract to Michael Vick's back-up.
I think this is a very QB friendly system, with very talented receivers.......
We've got Bullman, Nading, and Cochran....... I don't think our DE play is going to drop if we move Weaver.
SteveSlaton20
Rookie
Dear God,
Please let this happen.
Sincerely,
Every Texans fans.
Please let this happen.
Sincerely,
Every Texans fans.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I'm having second thoughts about this deal... I just posted this over at inthebullseye.com:
Thinking more about it, I don't know if a 4th makes sense. It seems to me that we could keep him and let him run out his contract. Then, next year, when he walks, we'd be in line for a compensatory pick for him. My guess is he'd likely get us at least a 5th round compensatory pick... I know that the compensatory picks are based on a net gain/loss in free agency but next season there are a lot of guys we're in jeopardy of losing:
Dunta
Pitts
OD?
RButler
Dryans
Cthompson
Dressens
DAnderson
WDemps
CBrown
and others... just something else to think about.
bigbrewster2000
Veteran
most of those guys are not worthy of a compensatory pick and the ones that are are going to be re-signed. I think you are greatly over valuing Sage. He isnt worth 2 picks. 4th or 3rd if we get really lucky. We are lucky to be gtting anything for a career backup.
PapaL
Loose Screw
YES!
Now I get to see more of the Wild Turkey Offense with Turk taking snaps at QB, faking a pitch to Speed Slaton and gashing the D for another 20 yard gain.
Who needs a backup QB when you got the Wild Turkey back there?
Seriously, we don't need a HOF backup QB. Just someone to manage the game and let our playmakers make plays.
Now I get to see more of the Wild Turkey Offense with Turk taking snaps at QB, faking a pitch to Speed Slaton and gashing the D for another 20 yard gain.
Who needs a backup QB when you got the Wild Turkey back there?
Seriously, we don't need a HOF backup QB. Just someone to manage the game and let our playmakers make plays.
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dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
The compensatory picks are largely based on what the FA signs his new contract for. If Sage gets 3yrs and $9 million and we lose Dunta next year, depending on who we picked up of significance, we'd be in line for a 3rd and probably a 5th. That's assuming we re-sign Pitts, DRyans, RButler, OD... By the way, if Demps or Chris Brown or Dressens were to have a productive season, they would be potential for small compensations if they left as well.
We Definitely need a backup HOF center!! We just don't need one UNDER center...
barrett
All Pro
I think it's a risk to trade Sage. It's a good risk and I hope it gets done. If Schaub isn't healthy it could backfire. At the same time that extra pick is very appealing. It all depends on the value of the pick. I think the Texans can be firm with their asking price because the QB's are so weak right now across the NFL. If it doesn't get done then we have the possible compensation next year as well as another season to see if Schaub can play 16.
I think we win either way.
I think we win either way.
PapaL
Loose Screw
We Definitely need a backup HOF center!! We just don't need one UNDER center...
Edited...
Big Poundcake
Waterboy
I like the deal.
I'd also be interested in bringing in QB Chris Simms.
Simms is friends with Kyle Shanahan.
Simms would have weapons to work with in Houston in AJ,Daniels,Walter and Slaton.
Simms would come cheap and get a fresh start for himself.
I think it would be a good move for both parties.
I'd also be interested in bringing in QB Chris Simms.
Simms is friends with Kyle Shanahan.
Simms would have weapons to work with in Houston in AJ,Daniels,Walter and Slaton.
Simms would come cheap and get a fresh start for himself.
I think it would be a good move for both parties.