Ryans Robinson arent going to report

[Polo]

He is certainly worth paying big money for one season just so we can see how much he still has left in the tank. Look at the stats dude. Dunta has not been that great of a corner since Aaron Glenn left. Is he good? Of course! But we should not break the bank getting locked into a long term contract with him.

No, that's not what you do...You don't franchise guys who you are not sure if they have value to your team unless you count "getting the guys fired up" as value. If we paid guys for passion and heart John Abbate would have made the team. You don't franchise guys who you are not sure about their talent. Period. If you're convinced that "his numbers" prove that he is a declining player or never had much talent then you let him walk, you don't franchise him.

And I could care less about the "stats". Thankyou captain obvious for letting me know that Dunta hasn't done much since he had other good defenders around him. Wanna know what else has steadily declined since then? Pretty much every aspect of our defense.

 

[steelbtexan]

DeMeco Should get a Bart Scott type deal or somewhere between Scott & Urlacher type deal.

DRob Should shut up & prove he's 100% healthy & he will get paid.

I think if C.Matthews isn't there @ 15 Smithiak will trade down & pick either A.Smith or Butler. If they do this they probably will be looking @ taking a Laurenitis type LB in the 2nd. Laurenitis ran a 4.65 @ his pro day. I think he can play the SAM.

 

[steelbtexan]

No, that's not what you do...You don't franchise guys who you are not sure if they have value to your team unless you count "getting the guys fired up" as value. If we paid guys for passion and heart John Abbate would have made the team. You don't franchise guys who you are not sure about their talent. Period. If you're convinced that "his numbers" prove that he is a declining player or never had much talent then you let him walk, you don't franchise him.

And I could care less about the "stats". Thankyou captain obvious for letting me know that Dunta hasn't done much since he had other good defenders around him. Wanna know what else has steadily declined since then? Pretty much every aspect of our defense.

I get what you are saying but D.Rob has to prove he's back to being his pre-injury form & he will get paid.

It's not fair but it's good business.

 

[Polo]

I get what you are saying but D.Rob has to prove he's back to being his pre-injury form & he will get paid.

It's not fair but it's good business.

Well let him prove that with another team that can afford to gamble with those things...

It's not fair and it is a business and that is why we should have let him walk if we were convinced that he was far off from being a top tier corner.

I don't want my team franchising marginal corners that can't cover. You let those guys walk if they are demanding too much and then you just replace them in the draft.

If you say that Dunta wasn't anything before his injury, looked bad after his injury and are worried about him even fully recovering, why would you be o.k with the team franchising him? That makes no sense at all.

 

[Blake]

I am fine with them franchising him and saying "show us that you are back, then you will get your $$$."

Its not that I think they think he is a marginal player, or wont be back to form. Heck, maybe he did turned down a fair muti-year deal for more money. I don't know. But at this point, we need him at CB.

 

[badboy]

If Bennett returns to his rookie year stats and Moldin is what SMith thinks he is, DR may be looking for a job for the season after this one. Hopefully, the two young guys play great and DR really steps up big to show case his skills for Texans or who ever for 2010. We can only benefit from this scenario.

 

[disaacks3]

If anyone was listening to 1560 today around 1pm or so, Dickie Justice laid all of this at the feet of...guess who...Rick Smith. According to Dick, Smith has to grow up and deal with these guys and swallow his pride to get a deal done. He also said that he needs to get a deal done with Owens. Didn't the team offer Owens a contract already?

F Dick Justice.

Agreed on Justice...

They interviewed McNair at Redstone yesterday and he made it clear that in his mind FAIR offers were extended to both Meco & D-Rob. I guess the guy signing the checks disagrees w/ DJ...what a shock!

 

[TimeKiller]

Agreed on Justice...

They interviewed McNair at Redstone yesterday and he made it clear that in his mind FAIR offers were extended to both Meco & D-Rob. I guess the guy signing the checks disagrees w/ DJ...what a shock!

What, like Bob McNair knows more about football than Richard Justice? Pleeeease.....

 

[eriadoc]

i do... the owners salaries etc dont have to fit in under a cap

Well, sure, but it isn't YOUR cap. Why do you care more about the owners finances than the players? I mean, I don't really care about either, but I'm not going to side with a billionaire over a millionaire based on finances.

 

[Ckw]

No, that's not what you do...You don't franchise guys who you are not sure if they have value to your team unless you count "getting the guys fired up" as value. If we paid guys for passion and heart John Abbate would have made the team. You don't franchise guys who you are not sure about their talent. Period. If you're convinced that "his numbers" prove that he is a declining player or never had much talent then you let him walk, you don't franchise him.

When it is the best corner you have on your team, it is exactly what you do. The Texans FO obviously don't want to let him walk because he is a good player. Is he one of the best CBs in football? Probably not, but he is worth trying to resign. He wouldn't agree to a deal so we franchised him which allows us one full year to try to get a fair contract done. The pros outweigh the cons.

I don't want my team franchising marginal corners that can't cover. You let those guys walk if they are demanding too much and then you just replace them in the draft.

And there goes the irrational exaggeration. No, Dunta is not a great cover corner; he is an average one. But he is an excellent tackler, a hard hitter, helps out the run defense, and rarely lets his man get by him after the catch. Dunta is a very good corner and as stated above, he is the best CB on our team right now. You don't just "let those guys walk".

If you say that Dunta wasn't anything before his injury, looked bad after his injury and are worried about him even fully recovering, why would you be o.k with the team franchising him? That makes no sense at all.

I don't think many people are saying he was bad; in fact, he helped our defense out quite a bit when he came back this past season. Most of us are simply saying that he isn't a top 5 or top 10 corner. There is a middle ground dude. You seem to be looking at this like either you are elite or you suck. There's a lot of gray.

And I could care less about the "stats". Thankyou captain obvious for letting me know that Dunta hasn't done much since he had other good defenders around him. Wanna know what else has steadily declined since then? Pretty much every aspect of our defense.

You mean to tell me you think our defense has progressively gotten worse and not better?!? There really is no need to continue this conversation with you.

 

[Polo]

When it is the best corner you have on your team, it is exactly what you do. The Texans FO obviously don't want to let him walk because he is a good player. Is he one of the best CBs in football? Probably not, but he is worth trying to resign. He wouldn't agree to a deal so we franchised him which allows us one full year to try to get a fair contract done. The pros outweigh the cons.

The pro's outweigh the cons?

What does that have to do with franchising a player that you feel was not that good before injury, didn't play well coming back from injury, and may not every fully recover ? Why would you franchise that guy if that's how you felt. Why would you even try to resign a marginal corner that "can't cover" after coming back from a devastating knee injury ?

There are no pro's because according to you and others the best Dunta has been was in his rookie year. If that's what we have to look toward as his ceiling then why would you franchise that guy?

Honestly I think it's just the cool thing to say right now..."Dunta can't cover" because it's not really true...Even when he came back from injury QB's didn't pick on him as much as the corner playing opposite him...

You mean to tell me you think our defense has progressively gotten worse and not better?!? There really is no need to continue this conversation with you.

You mean to tell me that you think that ever since Dunta's rookie season our defense has done nothing but improve? I believe we were ranked like 15th overall that year and we could actually stop folks on a somewhat consistent basis. It's no coincidence that was also Faggins best season and his play tapered off since that time too...Yes, ever since that season (up until recently) our defense has been worse...

 

[nunusguy]

http://www.chron.com/life/photogallery/High_style_partying.html#_self
D-Rob lookin pretty happy in this pic.
Check out #s 21 & 23.

 

[Ckw]

The pro's outweigh the cons?

What does that have to do with franchising a player that you feel was not that good before injury, didn't play well coming back from injury, and may not every fully recover ? Why would you franchise that guy if that's how you felt. Why would you even try to resign a marginal corner that "can't cover" after coming back from a devastating knee injury ?

Why am I even wasting my time responding? Let me try this again.

At no point have I EVER stated that Dunta is a bad player. Once again, all you see is black and white. In the real world, there is a lot of gray, and Dunta is somewhere in that gray area. He isn't a top 5 corner, but he also isn't a bad corner. Once again, he is an average to slightly above average cover corner but an excellent tackler. He also has decent speed and can keep up with his man.

He is worth franchising, because the high dollar amount is only for one season; if we were talking about a 5 or 6 year contract where he was making 9 mil a season, I would be pissed. But it is only for one year and hopefully during the next year, Dunta will realize he isn't a top 5 CB and accept fair market value for someone of his skill set. Once again, the pros outweigh the cons.

There are no pro's because according to you and others the best Dunta has been was in his rookie year. If that's what we have to look toward as his ceiling then why would you franchise that guy?

Dunta was incredible his rookie season. I mean he was getting INTs, sacks, solo tackles, etc. He was all over the field. Since then, he simply hasn't produced the numbers you look for in a top tier corner.

Honestly I think it's just the cool thing to say right now..."Dunta can't cover" because it's not really true...Even when he came back from injury QB's didn't pick on him as much as the corner playing opposite him...

He is the best cover corner we have on our team right now. That doesn't mean he is one of the best cover corners in the NFL. That is the only point I am trying to make.

You mean to tell me that you think that ever since Dunta's rookie season our defense has done nothing but improve? I believe we were ranked like 15th overall that year and we could actually stop folks on a somewhat consistent basis. It's no coincidence that was also Faggins best season and his play tapered off since that time too...Yes, ever since that season (up until recently) our defense has been worse...

If anything, our defense has simply been consistently bad. I will agree that in his rookie season, our defense played better as a unit. Aaron Glenn, Jamie Sharper, Gary Walker, etc. likely helped Dunta out. But the true top tier CBs like Nnamdi Asomugha can perform at a top tier level even when the rest of their team is not.

 

[Texan JBZ]

http://www.chron.com/life/photogallery/High_style_partying.html#_self
D-Rob lookin pretty happy in this pic.
Check out #s 21 & 23.

Looks like the cougars were on the prowl that night! Hopefully, D-Rob was packing a 7-Mag(num)!

 

[eriadoc]

Go back and watch the games, he gets burnt worse than Reeves, even before the injury.

His best season was his rookie season and he hasn't ever had a season better than that season since.

people seem to forget that Dunta's best season was when he had Aaron Glenn opposite of him.

....

BUT, as I have stated numerous times in this post, he hasn't been that good since Aaron Glenn left.

Honestly, what has Dunta Robinson done since his Rookie season?

Ehh .... if y'all say so, I guess. There are at least a couple people that disagree with your opinions, though:

Rotoworld comment dated 11/14/07:

(Rotoworld) Texans placed CB Dunta Robinson on injured reserve, ending his season.

Impact: Robinson has been up and down as a pro, but he was having a Pro Bowl year. He probably won't be back to his usual self until 2009 after tearing his ACL and hamstring.

Quote from Kubiak after the injury:

I was excited to see, as we got to the end of the year here, how much the rest of the league thought about his progress come Pro Bowl time, because I thought he was having that type of year as a player.

Everyone seems to forget that Dunta was having his best season as a pro in 2007 (yes, better than his rookie year). Then he got injured.

 

[Polo]

But the true top tier CBs like Nnamdi Asomugha can perform at a top tier level even when the rest of their team is not.

I think you are selling Dunta way too short and you still make no sense when talking about the franchise tag. You don't franchise above average at best CB's fresh off injury....Sorry, that just doesn't happen...

 

[Yankee_In_TX]

Ryans has had declining production, and fewer impact plays each season since he was drafted. I wouldn't be jumping to extend him either.

Did we ever find out if he was hurt all of last year?

 

[Ckw]

I think you are selling Dunta way too short and you still make no sense when talking about the franchise tag. You don't franchise above average at best CB's fresh off injury....Sorry, that just doesn't happen...

I never said he was only above average. If you actually would read posts before you reply, you would see I said he is only a slightly above average cover corner but is an excellent tackler and excellent against the run. IMO, he is a star CB; he isn't elite. He has been clamoring for elite money. The team made the right decision in keeping him by franchising him all in an effort to get the guy to realize his value and accept a fair contract. As of yet, he has been unwilling to do that so the tag was a good decision.

 

[keyser]

I wonder if the Texans have given Robinson the opportunity to pursue a trade. I think there would be a lot of benefits to this. First, it might open up Dunta's eyes about what his actual current value is, coming off of an injury. If so, he might be more willing to negotiate with the Texans. On the other hand, if he finds there is a team willing to pay much more than what the Texans are paying, the Texans ought to be able to get significant draft picks for him (let's say, the equivalent of what it would take to draft Jenkins this year...). I get the feeling that Dunta would prefer to be out of Houston, so if we're going to lose him after this year anyway, I'd just as soon get someone new, now (assuming we could get that level of value).

 

[infantrycak]

I wonder if the Texans have given Robinson the opportunity to pursue a trade.

Yes. He has a non-exclusive rights franchise tag so he can negotiate with anyone. Ain't happening though.

 

[GP]

Call me heartless, but I'd be OK with trading both of these guys.

They are obviously teaming up to make a "statement."

If they are THIS unhappy, then get them the hell out of here. Move on down the road, go get "yours," and we'll get something in return for the trouble.

Sometimes, it's just time to go. Had DeMeco been absent and Dunta went ahead and attended, I wouldn't feel this way. But this has the markings of two guys teaming up and refusing to go to the big party on Saturday night because of something that happened in the hallway at school on Friday.

Dunta, IMO, is becoming a cancer. Rumor has it that he turned down a pretty nice contract. He's getting almost 10 mill for one year, and I think he has convinced DeMeco that he, too, is getting shafted.

Sometimes a player believes his own hype too much. He knows he holds sway, and I think he is definitely trying to use his influence in the wrong way. He's like a Don in the mafia: If he says someone has to go, it happens. He has over-extended himself a little too far, this time, however.

Seriously, we should get them both traded before camp even begins. Even a draft-day trade. Trade them to the same team, for all I care, so they can wear Best Friends Forever air-brushed t-shirts to their new team's training camp sessions.

I guess during OTAs they are both meeting up at Dunta's house and play video games while the rest of the team tries to get things started for the year?

Go team.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Call me heartless, but I'd be OK with trading both of these guys.

They are obviously teaming up to make a "statement."

If they are THIS unhappy, then get them the hell out of here. Move on down the road, go get "yours," and we'll get something in return for the trouble.

Sometimes, it's just time to go. Had DeMeco been absent and Dunta went ahead and attended, I wouldn't feel this way. But this has the markings of two guys teaming up and refusing to go to the big party on Saturday night because of something that happened in the hallway at school on Friday.

Dunta, IMO, is becoming a cancer. Rumor has it that he turned down a pretty nice contract. He's getting almost 10 mill for one year, and I think he has convinced DeMeco that he, too, is getting shafted.

Sometimes a player believes his own hype too much. He knows he holds sway, and I think he is definitely trying to use his influence in the wrong way. He's like a Don in the mafia: If he says someone has to go, it happens. He has over-extended himself a little too far, this time, however.

Seriously, we should get them both traded before camp even begins. Even a draft-day trade. Trade them to the same team, for all I care, so they can wear Best Friends Forever air-brushed t-shirts to their new team's training camp sessions.

I guess during OTAs they are both meeting up at Dunta's house and play video games while the rest of the team tries to get things started for the year?

Go team.

I think the FO already knows this is Dunta's last season here.....and frankly I don't think they care. Actually they've prepared for it, they signed Reeves and drafted Bennett and Molden. That gives them okay depth, with plenty young potential at the position, and I think they'll add to it again in this draft. I think they'll let Dunta play out his "contract year" and hope he puts up a probowl year and then they'll let him move on.

As far as DeMeco goes, I think they'll reach a contract extension with him....I can actually see why he's upset so I'm not mad he's sitting out....Dunta is being a little biach though.

 

[Ckw]

I think the FO already knows this is Dunta's last season here.....and frankly I don't think they care. Actually they've prepared for it, they signed Reeves and drafted Bennett and Molden. That gives them okay depth, with plenty young potential at the position, and I think they'll add to it again in this draft. I think they'll let Dunta play out his "contract year" and hope he puts up a probowl year and then they'll let him move on.

As far as DeMeco goes, I think they'll reach a contract extension with him....I can actually see why he's upset so I'm not mad he's sitting out....Dunta is being a little biach though.

You nailed it! Rep!

 

[ObsiWan]

Looks like the cougars were on the prowl that night! Hopefully, D-Rob was packing a 7-Mag(num)!

is Ms. Bagwell nekkid under this thing?
yummy

 

[Mr PC]

D. Ryans should get paid immediately, with a contract similar to what LB Jon Vilma received. D. Robinson should quit whining, and the Texans should be looking for his replacement in the draft. He's been a great player for this franchise, but his attitude is concerning and he seems to be overvaluing himself considerably.

 

[Norg]

we should look for a MLB in the draft to replace Demco u know just in case but we cant lose BOth of them one of them but not both we are not that cheap LOL

and go with the most sucky one Dunta ..... Goodbye

 

[Texan4Ever]

We all know that Dunta Robinson has not had a season that he had his Rookie year and like most of you guys mentioned this could be his last year as a Texan. As for DeMeco Ryans, its important to get him signed to a long term deal that is in the best interests of Ryans and the Texans FO, however, I want him to prove to us why he should be paid more then he's getting paid right now. His production has slipped since his Rookie season and unless he has a spectacular year I don't agree with giving him more $$$ then he deserves.



DeMeco Ryans

Rookie Season - 156 Total Tackles, 3.5 Sacks
2007 Season - 127 Total Tackles, 2.0 Sacks
2008 Season - 112 Total Tackles, 1.0 Sacks

*Put up better numbers and you'll get paid the big bucks*

 

[infantrycak]

His production has slipped since his Rookie season...

Rookie Season - 156 Total Tackles, 3.5 Sacks
2007 Season - 127 Total Tackles, 2.0 Sacks
2008 Season - 112 Total Tackles, 1.0 Sacks

Funny, I seem to remember a future hall of famer passing the torch to DeMeco after that 2nd lackluster season--in Hawaii--where he was a backup to DeMeco.

 

[TexanBacker93]

Yes. He has a non-exclusive rights franchise tag so he can negotiate with anyone. Ain't happening though.

That's not necessarily true. I don't think any team would give up 2 1st round picks for him, but if he finds a team that is willing to give him a long term deal and they make a trade offer to the Texans that is fair it could happen. I don't think Dunta is here after this season. It is possible that the Texans could franchise him again, but if he is that unhappy do you really want him in your lockerroom? Getting some compensation for him is better than nothing. If they were to get someone to offer a 2nd this season and next season for him would you make the trade? The Texans aren't going to get a 1st for him. The Texans could use that extra 1st day pick to draft a young CB.

Of couse the possibility exists that the plan is to have Dunta play at a pro bowl caliber all season long to set himself up for a nice fat contract. They franchise him again and then shop him.

 

[ObsiWan]

Pay them.
Pay them BOTH.
Either you want to build around these guys as the core of your young and improving defense or you're content to stay in the bottom ten of the defensive stats every year and finish around 8-8 every year.

Yeah, you can "be competitive" with a good offense and mediocre defense but you can win with a good defense and a mediocre offense.

We don't have to be crazy spendthrifts like Daniel Snyder or the 49ers, but we should be willing to pay the core members of our team

 

[infantrycak]

That's not necessarily true. I don't think any team would give up 2 1st round picks for him, but if he finds a team that is willing to give him a long term deal and they make a trade offer to the Texans that is fair it could happen. I don't think Dunta is here after this season. It is possible that the Texans could franchise him again, but if he is that unhappy do you really want him in your lockerroom? Getting some compensation for him is better than nothing. If they were to get someone to offer a 2nd this season and next season for him would you make the trade? The Texans aren't going to get a 1st for him. The Texans could use that extra 1st day pick to draft a young CB.

Of couse the possibility exists that the plan is to have Dunta play at a pro bowl caliber all season long to set himself up for a nice fat contract. They franchise him again and then shop him.

I am not saying can't happen, I am saying won't happen. Nobody is going to top the contract we offered and offer up draft picks for him. I like the dude but he hasn't been the level of player yet that commands that kind of compensation.

 

[GP]

Trade both of them. On draft day. For a single ROUND 1 pick, for this year's draft.

We can use one of the Round 1 picks on a LB, and the other on a CB. We needed talent on defense, and this addresses two needs: LB and CB. I think Ryans and Robinson are not "getting the love" because management is concerned with something (health, attitude, a combo of things).

It gets a couple of disgruntled players out of our locker room, and we get two first rounders immediately to replace them.

This is where I am going to help everybody "keep it real."

I have waited a long ass time for this team to finally look like a true NFL team, and not the Keystone Cops who bumble around and get laughed at. Now that we are almost there, just needing some tweaks on defense, I am particularly angered by two of our "greatest leaders" pulling this crap at this moment in the team's history.

It smacks of a gross over-indulgence in personal opportunism. Yeah, yeah, I know..."But a player SHOULD get what they can, because they might get hurt and never play again." I get it. However, where was all of there griping and foolish antics before now? I'll tell you: It wasn't. And why? Because our team sucked so bad...that it was EASY for Ryans and Robinson to stand out and be the hero. They took (and rightly so) the opportunity to showcase their talents, and it was magnified because the rest of the team sucked so badly.

Now you have Steve Slaton busting onto the scene. Schaub is now starting to find his groove. Kubiak retained David Anderson. And I just can't help but think that Robinson and Ryans are jealous, as well as angered by the fact that Kubiak is an offense-minded coach who has built a pretty nice offense while the defense remained in suckitude all that time.

But to Kubiak's credit: He has axed the Master of Read & Reaction. He's t-r-y-i-n-g to stock that defense. He added a new DE, another DT, ad we're probably going to add more LB and DB talent in the early rounds. Now what does this tell you? It tells ME that their agents are telling Ryans and Robinson: "You gotta' get your money now, or get out of there. Because they are about to add more LBs and DBs and you guys are all getting older by the second around here. Are they going to boost you up, or will they go the direction of youth?"

So that's why I think it's a mistake to think, or to even DESIRE, that Ryans and Robinson are here next season.

I could be wrong. I know Robinson isn't going to be here. He'l get franchised and traded. I mean, infantrycak is right about that one.

But Ryans has an outside shot of sticking around.

All I know is that I want to see our front office stay wayyyyyy out in front on these two deals. I want them to think about the whole team, and what's best for the team. In the past, it felt like there was some favorites who were bullet-proof on contract deals.

I personally would pull a trigger on trading them both, now, before something crappy happens to Dunta this season. Package them together, since they have so much in common.

 

[Pantherstang84]

Maybe it is just me, but if I'm looking to get a raise, not showing up for work is the last thing that I would do.

A couple of pissy little babies if you ask me. Trade 'em and get something for them.

For those who say they understand Demeco's situation. I don't. The man signed a contract and is under that contract. Honor it!

 

[J. Sean Wonton]

Dunta - Play like a top 5 corner this year and get your big contract next year.

Demeco - Play well until your contract is up, and you'll get the big contract you want.

Houston seems to have a history of fair contract negotiations. Tell me if I'm wrong here.

Dunta & Demeco - If you don't play well under your remaining contracts, you won't get those big contracts from Houston and other teams will be thinking less of you. You'll be hurting your careers. You might even lose playing time to players that are trying to make a name for themselves. That means you'll be tanking. It's simple. Play your best, and you'll get the best money. But don't get greedy (like turning down a perfectly good contract, Dunta), and don't listen to your agents. Greed is a job requirement for them.

 

[awtysst]

I think that Dunta and Meco will both be here next year. I think that Dunta is forced to sign his offer. If he sits out, he he loses a tremendous amount of money, does not showcase his skills for nxt year, and is a year older. He needs to show teams that he is the Dunta of old. He cannot do that from the bench. If he plays well, we might give him that new contract he wants. If not, we franchise him again and tell him to find a deal he prefers.

Meco will probably get a contract extension sometime after the draft. While I do not like his attitude, it is understandable that he wants to get paid. He believes he has earned a hgiher compensation rate for his services to the team: and he is right. The problem is, he chose to go about it in the wrong way. When I wanted a raise from a boss, I talked to him, outlined the reasons why I should get a raise, and then asked for a specific amount. My boss agreed that I deserved a raise and countered with a proposal of his own. I accepted the deal. Thats how Meco SHOULD have handled it.

I think Daniels and winston may get new deals as well, but it won't be till after the draft.

 

[GP]

Maybe it is just me, but if I'm looking to get a raise, not showing up for work is the last thing that I would do.

A couple of pissy little babies if you ask me. Trade 'em and get something for them.

For those who say they understand Demeco's situation. I don't. The man signed a contract and is under that contract. Honor it!

Yep.

At this point, they've shown that they are super-pissed off.

So why should we give a pirate his ransom? This is the NFL. Go on and find your next team. They'll pay you, we'll find a replacement. Life goes on.

 

[Texans_Chick]

Yep.

At this point, they've shown that they are super-pissed off.

So why should we give a pirate his ransom? This is the NFL. Go on and find your next team. They'll pay you, we'll find a replacement. Life goes on.

Huh?

Lots of players sit out voluntary workouts as their own leverage to get the teams to continue talking to them about their contracts. Both sides say they want long term deals and want both of those players to be the backbone of the defense. It's just a matter of agreeing to price.

If you run off all the players that you can immediately come to terms with you will likely overpay your players or run off anybody who might be worth paying.

This is Kubiaks words about them: "They told me I can count on them (it's just a matter of when)."

No sense demonizing guys. Especially without knowing the details of their contract negotiations. It's a negotiation. There's a disagreement regarding value. I'm guessing it gets worked out.

 

[Pantherstang84]

Huh?

Lots of players sit out voluntary workouts as their own leverage to get the teams to continue talking to them about their contracts. Both sides say they want long term deals and want both of those players to be the backbone of the defense. It's just a matter of agreeing to price.

If you run off all the players that you can immediately come to terms with you will likely overpay your players or run off anybody who might be worth paying.

This is Kubiaks words about them: "They told me I can count on them (it's just a matter of when)."

No sense demonizing guys. Especially without knowing the details of their contract negotiations. It's a negotiation. There's a disagreement regarding value. I'm guessing it gets worked out.

Maybe it does. However, I like to look at things from how the tactics would work in my own professional life. Telling my boss I deserve a raise and that I'm not coming back to work until I get it probably wouldn't work too well in my favor.

 

[Ckw]

For those who say they understand Demeco's situation. I don't. The man signed a contract and is under that contract. Honor it!

Here's my take on Demeco: the guy has not been paid anything close to pro bowl MLB money and has played injured. The more he gives his heart for this team and plays injured like he did for much of last season, the more real a career ending injury becomes. The guy deserves to get paid. If nothing else, he deserves to get paid simply for being the main anchor and leader of our defense for the last 3 seasons. To magnify the need for Demeco to get paid, I also believe there will be more pro bowls for the guy. He has been a stellar player the last 3 years, and I believe he will continue to play like a pro bowler. Pay the man.

Dunta is an entirely different story.

 

[Texan4Ever]

Here's my take on Demeco: the guy has not been paid anything close to pro bowl MLB money and has played injured. The more he gives his heart for this team and plays injured like he did for much of last season, the more real a career ending injury becomes. The guy deserves to get paid. If nothing else, he deserves to get paid simply for being the main anchor and leader of our defense for the last 3 seasons. To magnify the need for Demeco to get paid, I also believe there will be more pro bowls for the guy. He has been a stellar player the last 3 years, and I believe he will continue to play like a pro bowler. Pay the man.

Dunta is an entirely different story.

DeMeco IS getting laid...I mean paid, excuse me! When his contract expires and he plays like he did his rookie season he'll get paid, I don't understand why these players act like there only making minimum wage, last time I checked DeMeco is making a decent amount of money and when his contract expires he will get mo' money.

 

[Ckw]

I don't understand why these players act like there only making minimum wage, last time I checked DeMeco is making a decent amount of money and when his contract expires he will get mo' money.

I see what you are saying and agree to a point. Only thing that I see differently is these players get paid handsomely because their careers are short, and most of them don't know how to do anything but play football. The sad thing is our society glorifies that. Because things are how they are and our society places so much emphasis on celebrities/athletes, many young men never learn to do anything but be an athlete.

Is this necessarily the case with Demeco? Well he was an Academic All-American and would likely do just fine if he couldn't play football anymore. The point is he could be injured at any point and has given a lot to the organization. When guys who never did anything for us are getting paid and paid like stars and guys like Demeco are getting shafted (relatively speaking), something needs to be done. Demeco deserves the contract. Once again, Dunta is acting like a punk.

 

[Texan4Ever]

I see what you are saying and agree to a point. Only thing that I see differently is these players get paid handsomely because their careers are short, and most of them don't know how to do anything but play football. The sad thing is our society glorifies that. Because things are how they are and our society places so much emphasis on celebrities/athletes, many young men never learn to do anything but be an athlete.

Is this necessarily the case with Demeco? Well he was an Academic All-American and would likely do just fine if he couldn't play football anymore. The point is he could be injured at any point and has given a lot to the organization. When guys who never did anything for us are getting paid and paid like stars and guys like Demeco are getting shafted (relatively speaking), something needs to be done. Demeco deserves the contract. Once again, Dunta is acting like a punk.

I agree with your point but it gets on my nerves when the NFL Players Union starts making demands that its athletes be provided with health insurance and what not. Don't these players make enough money to retire and have all the nice things in life, but wait I forgot that like 80% of the football players are complete bone heads and don't know jack about managing there finances.

 

[ChampionTexan]

Maybe it does. However, I like to look at things from how the tactics would work in my own professional life. Telling my boss I deserve a raise and that I'm not coming back to work until I get it probably wouldn't work too well in my favor.

If you like to look at things related to the NFL from how the tactics would work in your own professional life, you are woefully misguided, and need to give serious consideration to not doing that anymore. You may find it interesting, but it doesn't serve to expand your understanding of the sport one iota.

Let me clarify that a little bit.

Unless you work in an industry that signs employees to long-term contracts that are binding on the "employee", but can be terminated at any point in time by the "employer" with little to no penalty, unless you work in an industry where there is a very limited number of individuals capable of doing your job as well or better than you (and BTW, all of those individuals are currently under a legal obligation to other employers), and unless you work in an industry where non-participation in organized training activities (which in some instances are legally stipulated to be non-mandatory) is a common and typically unpunished or mildly punished form of both airing a grievance, and attempting to gain leverage, you are woefully misguided, and need to give serious consideration to not doing that anymore.

 

[GP]

Huh?

Lots of players sit out voluntary workouts as their own leverage to get the teams to continue talking to them about their contracts. Both sides say they want long term deals and want both of those players to be the backbone of the defense. It's just a matter of agreeing to price.

If you run off all the players that you can immediately come to terms with you will likely overpay your players or run off anybody who might be worth paying.

This is Kubiaks words about them: "They told me I can count on them (it's just a matter of when)."

No sense demonizing guys. Especially without knowing the details of their contract negotiations. It's a negotiation. There's a disagreement regarding value. I'm guessing it gets worked out.

Obviously there is a disagreement regarding value, so the tactic the player uses is to spite the TEAM by not showing up. I fully understand that these are "optional" meetings, but you know what? The season is a damn short one. So why not do what you can, in order to attend all that you can, so that you bond with your team and get a head start on the year?

If what you say is true, that "...I'm guessing it gets worked out." then why not be a man of honor by showing up to OTAs? Show that you DO want to get your better deal, but not at the expense of making some sort of half-assed 1970s protest sit-in? That's blatantly and patently self-centered.

Kubiak is playing it smart, unlike McEgo in Denver. McDimwit would probably publicly call those two guys out, and handle it badly. Kubiak can't do anything, so he's not being foolish by making any noise about it. Smart.

Let's look at the situation:

1.) I know that Dunta is angry over being a Texans player at $10 million this season, which is far and away the MOST ass-a-9 attitude for him to have in this day and age, with what the normal fan is going through just to try and buy their kid a jersey and attend a game once-in-awhile.

2.) I know that DeMucko chose to run his mouth, to the media, about how he needs to be a priority and yakkity-yakkity-yak-yak. Now he and Dunta are going roller-skating, and updating their MySpace pages.

3.) And I see Kubiak and the rest of the front office doing what? I see them trying to make this team a winner. As fastly as they can. Trying to not make unwise contract & player decisions. And most importantly, I see them honoring Dunta and Demeco by not returning their fire via the media.

Life really is about looking at what's going on, at a given moment, and being able to say "Well, all things considered I think I know which view or person I support." On this, I'm with management.

If people would just do the right thing, it'd be amazing. I guess all the good ideas for doing the right thing have been used by Disney film studios.

 

[GP]

If you like to look at things related to the NFL from how the tactics would work in your own professional life, you are woefully misguided, and need to give serious consideration to not doing that anymore. You may find it interesting, but it doesn't serve to expand your understanding of the sport one iota.

Let me clarify that a little bit.

Unless you work in an industry that signs employees to long-term contracts that are binding on the "employee", but can be terminated at any point in time by the "employer" with little to no penalty, unless you work in an industry where there is a very limited number of individuals capable of doing your job as well or better than you (and BTW, all of those individuals are currently under a legal obligation to other employers), and unless you work in an industry where non-participation in organized training activities (which in some instances are legally stipulated to be non-mandatory) is a common and typically unpunished or mildly punished form of both airing a grievance, and attempting to gain leverage, you are woefully misguided, and need to give serious consideration to not doing that anymore.

I think it's less about finding, understanding, etc., the things that NFL players are obliged to do and what they are not.

This country, IMO, is a turd stain right now because of the legal system. We are the most litigious system on earth. We can find a law for everything, or make one up as we go. It absolves everyone of personal responsibility.

Couple that with the obvious postmodern viewpoint this country has had since the late 1960s, and it's easily a culture of "how I see it is truth."

For example: There could be literally hundreds of people respond to me by saying "yeah, but define truth!" Exactly. Today, truth is defined by the individual. Period.

I think I understand what Pantherstang is trying to say.

It's a deal of "Shut up. We know you want more. We're working on it. You really think we opt to royally screw you over?! No way. Please just go and do your job. We're doing ours."

How would DeMeco and Dunta feel if, in the last few weeks of the deadline to re-work the contract for each of them, the front office just stopped coming to work for awhile? Hey, screw you two! We'll get around to it some other time.

The front office has to go through the draft, which is going to impact what we spend...based on what we do...and THEN we'll see what dollars are left over after that.

In the meantime, is it too much to ask that those two guys, who consider themselves the heart and soul of the defense, whom others consider to be the heart and the soul of the defense, to just get along and do what's right?

If not, then this IS about making management look like the big ogre. The illegal off-season drills is a case of management being wrong. This is a case of the players being wrong. In my opinion.

 

[ObsiWan]

Yep.

At this point, they've shown that they are super-pissed off.

So why should we give a pirate his ransom? This is the NFL. Go on and find your next team. They'll pay you, we'll find a replacement. Life goes on.

And we'll stay mediocre and they'll go to teams that appreciate talent and are willing to pay for it and want to win with it.

I've seen posts that lament the fact we never-ever make a big F/A splash. Why would any outta-town big name come here we we won't even pay our home grown talent?

I don't get it. You're acting like they both threatened to sit out the whole season. All they're doing is skipping the "voluntary" team workout.
So what?

 

[ChampionTexan]

I think it's less about finding, understanding, etc., the things that NFL players are obliged to do and what they are not.

This country, IMO, is a turd stain right now because of the legal system. We are the most litigious system on earth. We can find a law for everything, or make one up as we go. It absolves everyone of personal responsibility.

Couple that with the obvious postmodern viewpoint this country has had since the late 1960s, and it's easily a culture of "how I see it is truth."

For example: There could be literally hundreds of people respond to me by saying "yeah, but define truth!" Exactly. Today, truth is defined by the individual. Period.

I think I understand what Pantherstang is trying to say.

It's a deal of "Shut up. We know you want more. We're working on it. You really think we opt to royally screw you over?! No way. Please just go and do your job. We're doing ours."

How would DeMeco and Dunta feel if, in the last few weeks of the deadline to re-work the contract for each of them, the front office just stopped coming to work for awhile? Hey, screw you two! We'll get around to it some other time.

The front office has to go through the draft, which is going to impact what we spend...based on what we do...and THEN we'll see what dollars are left over after that.

In the meantime, is it too much to ask that those two guys, who consider themselves the heart and soul of the defense, whom others consider to be the heart and the soul of the defense, to just get along and do what's right?

If not, then this IS about making management look like the big ogre. The illegal off-season drills is a case of management being wrong. This is a case of the players being wrong. In my opinion.

But the "If I did _ _ _ _ _ where I work then the result would be _ _ _ _ _ _" is completely irrelevent to the realities of the Dunta and DeMeco situation.

If you have a skill that is so rare, and so valuable that someone is willing to pay you 7 and sometimes 8 figure annual salaries, you have just separated yourself from 99.999% or so of the working population. At that level, the rules are different pretty much every where you go.

 

[GP]

But the "If I did _ _ _ _ _ where I work then the result would be _ _ _ _ _ _" is completely irrelevent to the realities of the Dunta and DeMeco situation.

If you have a skill that is so rare, and so valuable that someone is willing to pay you 7 and sometimes 8 figure annual salaries, you have just separated yourself from 99.999% or so of the working population. At that level, the rules are different pretty much every where you go.

At some point, bosses DO stop putting up with it: Ask Jerry Jones. Nobody is irreplaceable.

Look, this is not the core issue here.

OTAs are voluntary, in words & contract lingo only. Still, they are not attending for reasons that are selfishly motivated. Agreed?

Whether that's right or wrong, we can debate. I happen to think it's wrong because they claim (and others do, too) that they are the heart and soul, the leaders, of the defense. Heck, maybe even the whole team.

Maybe the FO was right to not reward DeMeco right away. That's what it looks like to me, at least. And Dunta is a nice guy, but he's dreaming if he thinks he was screwed. IMO, the Texans gave him a pot of gold. He can grab two pots of gold, next season, if he does well THIS season.

 

[GP]

And we'll stay mediocre and they'll go to teams that appreciate talent and are willing to pay for it and want to win with it. How do you know? GP's reply: That's as much speculation as what I have served up on this issue. They are acting foolishly. Period.

I've seen posts that lament the fact we never-ever make a big F/A splash. Why would any outta-town big name come here we we won't even pay our home grown talent? GP's reply: It hasn't stopped players yet. Oh, unless they are just using us to leverage a re-up with their current team. All you guys are claiming that the Texans are a first-rate team, facility, ownership, etc. You mean that's all undone if St. Robinson & St. Ryans leave?

I don't get it. You're acting like they both threatened to sit out the whole season. All they're doing is skipping the "voluntary" team workout.
So what? GP's reply: They're doing it to make a point, which they have already belabored (publicly, I might add). They want more. Then let's help them! There's no cruelty in that.

I just want to do away with all the freaking horse manure and maneuvering. And to get on with the advancement of this team. That's all.

Trade 'em. You guys act like once we get a good player, we won't find any more if we let them slip away. Sometimes the best thing that happens is that one of those coveted "good" players slips away. Happens all the time. There was a highly-coveted LB for the 49ers who slipped away to the Seahawks, along with a highly coveted OL who went to the Seahawks at about the same time. People raved about it being the next step in Seahawks total domination of the NFC...oops! It didn't happen.

So I say: Trade 'em, and get something for 'em while we can. We would have an extra 3rd rounder this April if we had traded Sage when his value was high. It can work.

 

[ObsiWan]

Maybe you believe no American has the right to strike or participate in a work-stoppage if they feel they're not being fairly compensated.

Look, I see it like this: Harry Williams can no longer play any more. He's lucky he can walk again. Dunta nearly had his career ended once already. So the old mantra, "any play could be your last" is no longer an abstract for him. For those who say, "well play this year and for sure they'll pay you next year" assumes they survive to play next year. We've all seen that that's no given.

Its not like they're the first and only guys to not go to team-sponsored conditioning sessions. ...didn't T.O. skip the first of the Bills voluntary team drills? I'm sure he's not the only one to do so this year or in prior years.

And like TC posted, they said they'd be there when it counted. As long as they show up in shape and ready to go, so what if they skip this?