Heck, I saw Ryan Fitzpatrick throw 6 in one game.
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Robert Griffin III could be the Texans next quarterback
- Thread starter Porky
- Start date
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- rgiii robert griffin iii
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Yeah but Ryan Fitzpatrick has never led a team to the NFL playoffs. RG3 led the Redskins to the playoffs his rookie year. Even had a 14-3 lead over the Seahawks in the wild-card game before getting hurt. The Redskins went on to lose that game with Cousins, another rookie, coming in.Heck, I saw Ryan Fitzpatrick throw 6 in one game.
People can bash RG3 all they want but the kid was damn good as a rookie and he could be again if he's given a chance. All of his injuries aside, we can't allow that to scare us away. Any quarterback is one good hit from being injured.
There's a reason why he was seen as a franchise QB coming out of Baylor. Which was only four years ago. He's still young enough to take a chance on, IMO. It's not like he's old and washed up. Like say, Vince Young is. And even VY was trying to get back in the NFL just a year ago.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
RG3 can become a very good pocket passer. His arm is as strong, if not stronger, than a lot of guys in the NFL. Just because he's tall and skinny people doubt his toughness. He doesn't have that linebacker weight like Cam Newton has for example. But if RG3 were shorter and played more like Russell Wilson people probably wouldn't mind.
He just didn't get a chance to showcase anything this past season with the Redskins. Even better that he didn't start for them because his body is probably as healthy as it's been since his rookie year.
Mentally his game may have improved by sitting and watching on the sidelines. He's hungry to win again and prove all the doubters wrong. I'd love to see what he could do with the Texans and a major weapon to throw to like DeAndre Hopkins.
I think a Bill O'Brien and Robert Griffin III partnership could become very successful. But is O'Brien willing to risk his job on it? He'd probably have two years to make it work if he decided to make RG3 his starter. We'd have to go 10-6 or better, and win some playoff games, to improve over what we've been these past two seasons (9-7).
He just didn't get a chance to showcase anything this past season with the Redskins. Even better that he didn't start for them because his body is probably as healthy as it's been since his rookie year.
Mentally his game may have improved by sitting and watching on the sidelines. He's hungry to win again and prove all the doubters wrong. I'd love to see what he could do with the Texans and a major weapon to throw to like DeAndre Hopkins.
I think a Bill O'Brien and Robert Griffin III partnership could become very successful. But is O'Brien willing to risk his job on it? He'd probably have two years to make it work if he decided to make RG3 his starter. We'd have to go 10-6 or better, and win some playoff games, to improve over what we've been these past two seasons (9-7).
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
My concern is with the comments of his inability to pick up Grudens system. If you want rocket arm gazelle then go get Kap, at least he's healthy.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Add in the fact that he has never shown the ability to process NFL reads fast enough, taking away his feet either voluntarily or as a result of injuries, virtually translates into a QB's death sentence in this league.
Again, highlights being what they are, RG showed some pretty good skill at finding his hot receiver under pressure.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The thing about QBs like Manziel and RGIII is that when, like Bah007 emphasized, they are no longer availed of their legs, without the confidence that they may have had knowing they have an "out" (with their legs)...............their thought processes tend to totally disintegrate.
EVOLVIST
Kid A
Wait! Didn't we just watch 17 games with what OB looks for in a QB?
Ain't no clinic gonna cure cancer.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Roger Staubach ran almost as many times as he threw his Heisman season. He turned into the quintessential scrambling QB. It can be done. Now Landry was on his ass constantly. Does OB have that in him?
Texian
Hall of Fame
Couldn't agree more with your medical diagnosis about RGIII. How many operations on the same knee, 2 or 3? I can't discount that he took Wash from worst to first and was quite effective in doing so. Appears to be only a shell of his old self after so many knee ops.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Do I see Griffin as a franchise guy? Nope, never have. Do I see him as a better option than Hoyer? Yes. I don't think he's really that much better of a passer but he is a better runner and he doesn't absolutely crumble under any semblance of pressure.
If we do take a run at him, I'm still drafting a young QB in round 1 or 2 to develop behind him. I'm also looking at vets to bring in as a stop-gap backup for the inevitable games that Griffin will miss with injury.
If we do take a run at him, I'm still drafting a young QB in round 1 or 2 to develop behind him. I'm also looking at vets to bring in as a stop-gap backup for the inevitable games that Griffin will miss with injury.
I happen to respectfully disagree. I think coaching plays an integral part in that...I just read what Cak said. That's pretty much my take.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I loved Staubach, but he did not start off his career with a series of major lower limb injuries. He knew he had a good pair of legs to fall back on when he needed them.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Plus we all know that the Redskins are not the epitome of stability. Between injuries and coaches coming and going, I'd gladly give him a shot here. Can't be worse than The Destroyer.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Which actually aids my point. He didn't have to learn but did. Griffin has to learn or he's done.
I don't know that RGIII or OB has it in them.
Staubach and Landry going at it on the sidelines was epic. Landry was so stoic you knew he really cared about Staubach because he came so outside his normal demeanor.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
His ankle dislocation is an extremely devastating injury for a runner...........for his full injury analysis, if you haven't already, you might want to read this previous post of mine. http://www.texanstalk.com/posts/2573161/
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I'm not sure that it aids your point. Staubach still used his legs alot effectively and in his first 3 or 4 years if I remember he was considered somewhat less than accurate with relatively lower completion percentage.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Staubach never had over 350 yds rushing although it was clear he could have had much more. Yes it aids, the point is it is a mental switch.
And no Staubach was not inaccurate for his time. His first year starting he was a hair under 60% (59.7) which was great for the time (better than any team in the league).
In '71, Staubach was 3rd in the league in completion %. And it's not like he was dinking and dunking. Staubach was 2nd in yards/completion. He was special.
Griffin was special in 2012, too. 5th in completion% at 65% and 5th in yards/completion. All QBs ahead of Griffin in YPC were under 60%.
But Griffin suffered horrific leg injuries. Staubach did not. That's why Griffin will become available and is not on a long term extension. Should the Texans take a shot on RGIII? They have neglected the position for two years (3 counting Kubiak's last season). They are in the position of needing to pull a rabbit out of their hat. My suggestion would be to get as many hats as possible.
In '71, Staubach was 3rd in the league in completion %. And it's not like he was dinking and dunking. Staubach was 2nd in yards/completion. He was special.
Griffin was special in 2012, too. 5th in completion% at 65% and 5th in yards/completion. All QBs ahead of Griffin in YPC were under 60%.
But Griffin suffered horrific leg injuries. Staubach did not. That's why Griffin will become available and is not on a long term extension. Should the Texans take a shot on RGIII? They have neglected the position for two years (3 counting Kubiak's last season). They are in the position of needing to pull a rabbit out of their hat. My suggestion would be to get as many hats as possible.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I think I'd prefer a hat that hasn't been stepped on as much.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Robert Griffin III is a franchise quarterback. #RG3
I can't wait to buy his Texans jersey!!! Get 'er, done!
It's going to happen guys. Hopefully pretty soon.
I can't wait to buy his Texans jersey!!! Get 'er, done!
It's going to happen guys. Hopefully pretty soon.
I know.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I think a good coach can reign that in some. And I think a player who is committed to it can reign it in.
I don't agree with players not being able to change habits or 'instincts'. At some point if a guy has done it for a long time in the NFL then yeah...odds are they won't get it.
But rg3 is still really young and I don't think he's been coached all that well on the NFL level.
No offense to the shanny's but I think they simply used what he naturally brought to the table instead of coaching the bad habits out of him from day one.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I'm a bit of a Shanahan fan and I think this is correct. They adapted their playbook (wait coaches can do that?) and rode the train. Synder wanted results and they gave it to him. Hard to say what they would have shaped given a few years.
We all would. But at some point Goldilock's dress gets tight. Can't wait around for just right.
Rg3 with Stevie Franchise
All the talent in the world... nothing to show for it.
My only complaint with Shannahan is letting an obviously injured player return to the game then letting him start another game well before he was ready. Shannahan even went so far as to lie about Dr. Andrews giving him the OK.
I thought baby Shanny was brilliant with his game plans and playcalling.
Do that. & tell me what RGIII brings to the table. Tell me how compromised his ability to make plays with his legs is. Without the ability to break down defenses with his physical ability, I'm afraid he's I'll equipped, poorly prepared to be an NFL QB.
The kind of reprogramming needed will take years if he's willing to put in the work.
It's a totally different game now. What you saw was him playing against defenses that had to respect what he could do with his legs.
He most likely won't be getting that kind of respect in the future. Those hot reads may not be as open
True, but the game has evolved quite a bit since then. Defenses cover the pass as well as they covered the run back then. I'm just saying it will be difficult, there will be growing pains & I'm not particularly interested in going through them with RGIII.
I'm thinking two or three years before we'll see what he can be.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
What are the examples this time line is based on?
It's an attitude change. You can either make it or you can't.
As I said, not a fan of this potential move, but IF Griffin takes on a new work ethic it has a shot at being that swing for the fence move. And sooner rather than later. If he is just coming home to slack in Texas then OB is done IMO.
RGIII brings a lot to the table. The guy is accurate, hits receivers in stride and has a deep ball that's a thing of beauty. He also doesn't show panic in the face of a good passrush. Yes, he tends to pull the ball down and run, but that's because his coaches saw that talent and maximized it. That doesn't, for a second, preclude him from keeping his eyes downfield and delivering a pass instead of tucking the ball away and running for daylight. The main thing that I like about him is that he has that jail break game that Wilson has. That just needs to be emphasized, which it wasn't under Shannahan and seemed to be actively coached out of him under Gruden.
How does it take years to teach a QB to use his natural instincts to escape the pocket but keep his eyes downfield? I learned how to completely change how I rode bulls in a matter of weeks. By completely I mean a 180* change. Maybe pain is a good learning tool and whoever said RGIII needs a shock collar was right and spanking children isn't always bad? You're not teaching "don't run". You're teaching "run to certain areas and do A, B or C". Find an open receiver, throw the ball away or take what you can get and slide or get out of bounds. It definitely takes work, but you're not asking the guy to completely disregard his instincts and stay in the pocket. That is why I think RGIII developed a rep for holding the ball too long. He was asked to stay in the pocket and pass the ball instead of working to get outside it and deliver the ball. Shannahan did this, imo, to be a dick and Gruden did it because he's not the greatest offensive mind in the world. He's adequate, given the right player. OB, on the other hand, has shown a knack for playing to a player's strengths and could possibly do wonders with RGIII.
Let me ask you a question. What would your ideal QB competition look like? I mean going into OTA's and mini camp because I want the starting QB question put to rest by then. Would you be more butt hurt and disappointed if Hoyer or RGIII was making $2-3M for the Texans going into the 2016 season?
EDIT: After rereading this, maybe Pete Carroll is just a better football coach than either Mike Shannahan or Jay Gruden? Shannahan proved to be the right coach for an aging Elway. Gruden has proven to get lesser results from talented QB's than either Mike Shannahan or Hugh Jackson. Maybe OB can be a better coach than Shannahan or Gruden for RGIII because he is good at playing to a player's strengths amd is adaptable.
WOW!!! Long story. The novel will be out soon. LOL
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I'm thinking it generally takes a rookie QB 3 years to adjust to the NFL. To come from a simple college offense.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It does?
Maybe to get to their prime. Not to get to be a plus. Derrick Carr just made the probowl for instance. RGIII is not 'adjusting to the NFL' like rookies. He knows the NFL game and the habits needed to excel...he just has to choose them.
It's his defense mechanism. Instead of staying in the pocket... he's running around. Personally, I think it's very difficult to teach a team to continue to win that way. The guy who can consistently play that way & win is extremely rare. You get Tony Romo more times than not & you'll bang your head against the wall for 10 years trying to figure out why you're not winning. Can't be the QB, look at his stats...
Ideally, I'd like Connor Cook, Kevin Hogan, Brandon Allen, & Tom Savage competing for the starting spot.
I don't have a problem bringing RGIII in to compete. All I'm saying about that is that it shouldn't affect our draft. I don't want RGIII to be our "best shot" at solving our QB situation.
Derrick Carr... that's funny.
Anyway, it's my contention that RGIII is a different person now. Everything he thought he knew has changed. I'll go back & try to find some videos of him playing post injury... scrambling & not running. From what I remember, none of it shows any adjusting to the NFL.
You're enabling his defense mechanism in a different direction. You're not changing the defense mechanism.
I honestly have to say that all of this "I want to draft this QB because" **** has reached my limit. There is not one single QB in this draft that is even a cousin to a "sure fire thing". Not Goff. Not Lynch. Certainly not Wentz, Cook or Coker. Talk about throwing darts at a dart board. I'd much rather my dart be a Hiesman Trophy, OROY winning QB than some may be from Podunk U. Give me a QB that has done it in the NFL. Not some kid that completely outshines the Cornbelt and the FCS.
I cannot measure my respect for CnD, but take a look at Carson Palmer. He's doing a pretty good job for the Cards and he's "injury prone".
I'm not all in on RG III, but I'll take him over Hoyer and whatever cornbread , 2nd rate talent that's in this draft. And that includes Slacking Off for Goff.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Shanahan was apparently the right coach for a rookie Griffin when running a zone read based offense (or does that not fit the agenda?). It's not a coincidence that his playing level fell off a cliff after he got injured and his running ability was diminished. He was forced to stay in the pocket because of his knee and he had never developed as a pocket passer because he had always relied on his legs in the past.
Also, it's time to stop pushing the Gruden agenda. He coached Dalton for years 1-3. That's a QB's developing period. Hue Jackson is one of the better QB coaches in the league and had Dalton for years 4-5. Even so, Dalton threw 80 TD's in 3 years under Gruden and made a Pro Bowl (how many young QB's did better than that during that period?). Gruden got nothing out of Griffin and then turned right around and got a pro-bowl caliber season out of Kirk Cousins. Maybe it wasn't Gruden that was the problem.
By all accounts, RG3 was very hard to work with behind the scenes and used his relationship with the owner to leverage both coaching staff's. Maybe it's time to hold him at least somewhat accountable for his fall instead of throwing the blame on a Hall of Fame coach who led Washington to its first division title since 1999 or on the other coach, who benched Griffin for his backup and then won a division title anyway.
I get that people like him or like what he brings to the table as a player/athlete, but the outright enabling that goes on with his supporters just blows my mind. At least hold him partially responsible for what happened in Washington instead of blaming every single other person in the organization. Remember that this is the same guy who threw his teammates under the bus after a loss. The same guy whose teammates applauded when he got benched and said "now we can win again".
This is me all the way. Just don't trade away the future by gambling on a maybe.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
We need a healthy and motivated RG3 just to compete with the other young and talented quarterbacks in our division. It's bad enough that Blake Bortles had a breakout year this past season and Marcus Mariota is a future star. But this guy especially (1st overall pick in the 2012 NFL Draft), is likely to be the comeback player of the year next season.
But we could have the 2nd overall pick in that 2012 NFL Draft. Go Texans! He's going to make his own special comeback in 2016 and I hope it's here in H-Town. I could see this team winning the Super Bowl next year with RG3 at the helm. Super Bowl 51 at NRG Stadium in Houston. We're going to win the Lombardi Trophy at our own stadium. I'm ready!!! Are you?
But we could have the 2nd overall pick in that 2012 NFL Draft. Go Texans! He's going to make his own special comeback in 2016 and I hope it's here in H-Town. I could see this team winning the Super Bowl next year with RG3 at the helm. Super Bowl 51 at NRG Stadium in Houston. We're going to win the Lombardi Trophy at our own stadium. I'm ready!!! Are you?
EVOLVIST
Kid A
Okay, it's not exactly the same thing, still, it's too close for comfort with what they have supposedly been doing with Savage.
OB drafts his guy as a developmental player(Savage), calls for vet QB (Fitz), then another vet QB (Hoyer), this time I guy who "knows" the system, and now we're to start all over again with almost the same scenario?
I don't think we can have it both ways. Either Savage starts in 2016, with a vet behind him, plus a young QB, or RGIII or Glennon gets signed (or someone like that) and a young QB learns behind them.
The first scenario says OB had it right all along. The second scenario says OB screwed up, big time, and we're starting from scratch (which is very disconcerting).
Hue Jackson worked with Dalton for 2 years and gave Dalton his best statistical career. I'm not going to argue who started what pissing match because I can see validity in your argument.
Was Griffin hard to work with before the pissing contest between Shannahan and Snyder? By all reports, no. If you're a young player in the NFL, are you going to side with the coach or the owner? Rhetorical question. Griffin was voted team captain by his 3rd game. Loyalties might play a role here.
Stop the Gruden Agenda? He's an ok coach. He is most certainly not the next Joe Walsh or Bill Belichick. Dalton was mediocre, at best, under Dalton with a ton of offensive talent. He's also certainly not a talented coach that can pull off what great coaches have: adapt your system to fit what your QB does well. Pro Bowls are popularity contests. If you use them to gauge player productivity, that explains a lot.
I'm on record as questioning whether the benching served RGIII well. That has yet to be seen. I'm willing to risk it.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Total aside. I hate this statement. 1/3rd of votes are fans. 2/3rds are coaches and players. You only get there if players and coaches respect you.
Carson Palmer is a drop back QB. An injury to his legs doesn't affect his greatest strength... breaking down defenses with his mind.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
How comfortable can one feel having a young QB trying to learn behind a vet who is essentially starting a system from scratch? See one, play one, teach one is a heck of an approach for an organization who has been wandering in the wilderness looking for success for so long.
EVOLVIST
Kid A
This is a very good point, which is why my depth chart for next year would look like Savage/Weeden/Rookie.
If not now for Savage, then when? Now, there is a chance that said Rookie could blow the doors off of the competition in training camp, then great!
So many permutations one could think of.
This regime is at a major crossroads, fo sho!
ROO
Tweak the offense already!
I really really really really really really want to believe you!
Dre_80
Waterboy
Bring him in, build the offense around him, simplify the offense, use the read option and I'm 90% sure he will lead us to the playoffs. If you bring him in and then try to somehow make him fit into what you want him to do (pocket passer, west coast offense etc.) he's gonna fail so don't even bother with that.