rmartin65 Post-Season Mock

[rmartin65]

I changed it up a little bit from the one I posted in beerlover's thread yesterday, and I like it a bit better. Let me know what you think.

Round 1: Memphis NT Dontari Poe, 6’5” 350 lbs

I just cant decide on a pick here. On the one hand, our D was very good this past season, and we have a huge whole at number 2 WR. On the other hand, I believe that the WRs worth taking here- Blackmon, Wright, Floyd- will be gone, which would leave us either reaching for a player, or grabbing a different position. I think Poe is an upgrade, and one of the few true NTs in the draft. WR can be grabbed later. Poe is a massive, raw talent that, with coaching, can become one of the best NTs in the league. He is huge and strong, yet can move quite well for his size. Putting him out next to Watt would strike fear in opposing offenses.

Round 2: Arizona State ILB Vontaze Burfict, 6’3” 250 lbs

We all know the pluses and minus to Burfict. An incredibly talented player- speed, strength, play recognition, anger- but with one major flaw- he is a headcase. Burfict simply cannot keep his emotions in check, which results in costly unsportsmanlike penalties. However, I think the Texans need backup linebackers, with an eye towards having them start in a year or two. Burfict can play both inside and outside. And hopefully being around professionals like Cushing, Ryans, Joseph, Manning and Watt will temper the young man, and help him focus staying in control. If he is available (a big if- I have him ranked much higher than this, but appear to be one of the few), he is worth the risk. Especially if Wade likes him.

Round 3: Oklahoma WR Ryan Broyles, 5’11” 185 lbs

I know, later than you guys want to see WR taken. But I did not want to reach for a player. Broyles should be long enough removed from his injury to be able to participate in the mini-camps and training camp, and is exactly what one looks for in a number 2 receiver- shiftiness, hands, a feel for the zone, and the ball just seems to find him. Now, a major flaw is that he wont be more than a number 2. He lacks the size and the top end speed required to fill that need. Broyles can also fill the role of returner.

Round 4- Ex-Oregon CB/PR Cliff Harris, 5’11” 170 lbs

JJ needs to go, and it never hurts to take chances on potential shut down corners. As I put it in another thread “Cliff Harris is a CB in the mold of Deon Sanders.

An extraordinary talent, both at CB and at returner. He can blanket a man step for step with his elite agility, speed and acceleration, and can intercept passes with little difficulty.

However, he is like Sanders in the fact that he is not a willing tackler. And even when he does go in for the tackle, it is a very weak with poor form. As with other players who focus on getting interceptions, I have noticed that he sometimes gets caught looking in the backfield. He can be beat on double moves, PA, etc.

In terms of off the field issues, Harris was booted from the team due to accumulating multiple offenses throughout his career. The general pattern seems to be driving too fast (and not wearing a seat belt, and being uninsured), and marijuana.

Round 5- Arizona WR Juron Criner, 6’4” 215 lbs

Criner can be an excellent red zone option. He missed some time during his career due to injury, but he certainly can win those jump balls against DBs. With AJ, Broyles, KW, Jean, Criner and Maehl making up our WR corps, we should look a lot more dangerous.

Round 6- Wake Forest OG Dennis Godfrey, 6’3” 315 lbs

Godfrey is a big guard with rare athleticism for a big guy. He could use some work with his technique (since he recently moved from DT), but I think he could become a contributor for the Texans down the line.

Round 7- Michigan DE Ryan van Bergen, 6’6” 290 lbs
As I described him earlier, a poor man’s Watt. How can you not want that on your team?

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I guess my thought is I wouldn't address the defense until the 3rd unless someone dropped who shouldn't be there .

 

[rmartin65]

I guess my thought is I wouldn't address the defense until the 3rd unless someone dropped who shouldn't be there .

I cant disagree with this sentiment, but I took the option of trying to build an all-star D, that when coupled with our running game can win games like the Ravens and Steelers used to do/continue to do.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I cant disagree with this sentiment, but I took the option of trying to build an all-star D, that when coupled with our running game can win games like the Ravens and Steelers used to do/continue to do.

That's true and if the BPA was clearly a NT , why not .

 

[TexCanada]

I'd be happy with this draft as long as we got a WR through FA.

I would love to plug a NT like Poe into our D, but it doesn't seem like Wade feels the same way. Great mock though, fantastic work as always.

 

[beerlover]

1. It's really hard to gauge where Poe will be selected. If he is there fine. Raw, needs a couple years then who knows maybe he's pro-bowl material. High risk-high reward, not sure that's Rick Smith/Gary Kubiak/Wade Phillps MO? Guess he would fall into who you feel Texans should select.

2. Has Burfict stock fallen this low? If so, WOW, thought for sure he was first round material. If there by all means take him, Wade will whip him into shape if not DeMeco & Cushing.

3. No argument on Broyles. I listed him as an option even in the 2nd depending on what other WR's still on board. If Wright goes higher, as expected, in the first I think it will also drive Ryan Broyles stock higher too, very similar, polished WR's.

4. Cliff Harris is on par w/Claiborne in regards to cover skills, despite repeated off field issues would be surprised if he slides end of 4th. Someone will gamble on him, very fluid hips with will excellent ball skills (somewhere 3rd rd.).

5. Criner end of 5th also hard to imagine. Maybe the 4th instead when Harris is off the board. Taking two WR's is a real good idea, plus free agency if there is any cap room left.

6. I'm with you addressing OL late. They will need time anyway to learn the ZBS so long as they possess skill set & have essential measureable in a average class.

7. Ryan van Bergen, has a draftable grade, unlike my own pick. Developmental of course but could prove useful & even if on the practice squad becomes a solid camp body.

 

[Wolf6151]

1. Poe, what I read tells me that he's a good NT prospect but what I see for myself makes me skeptical. He's a junior from a Conference USA school that hasn't faced any kind of elite level competition. He's huge and we all know that it's almost impossible for someone that size to have athletic quickness/agility. We play a 1 gap system that relies on quickness and athleticism to get penetration, we don't run a traditional 2 gap system. He's tall so leverage will be an issue for him against guys who'll be able to stand him up. I've seen no game film on him anywhere. There's no game film on the net that I can find so I can't endorse a 1st round pick spent on a guy that I can't see play. At a time when all the players are filling up YouTube with highlight videos trying to stir up hype about themselves, all I can find on Poe is weightlifting and interviews. That alone sends up a red flag for me.
2. Burfict, I can't see him falling to the late 2nd round. To me he's late 1st round or very early 2nd round. Great value if he is still available.
3. Broyles, he's a good player but it's my opinion that since he won't be able to workout due to injury issues he'll fall farther than you think. This is a very deep WR class, teams will want someone that can play and workout to start learing their system right away, not someone that's already on IR. Why would a team take an injured Broyles here when they can get a healthy Fuller, Criner, Jenkins, etc... All are just as athletic but healthier.
4. Harris, I like him but again don't think he falls this far. If so he's great value but I don't see it happening since CB's are so valued. I think he goes 2nd round.
5. Criner, see #4
6. Godfrey, I don't know anything about him but I like the depth O-line pick.
7. Van Bergen, I don't know anything about him either but I like the added size and competition on the D-line. Probably goes to the practice squad.

 

[steelbtexan]

Great Mock,

Just switch Broyles and Harris and draft Jordan White in the 5th. Or even trade up into the 4th for White.

This provides great value in the 3/4th rd. Addresses the holes at WR and PR/KR. Hopefully they also add a vet WR in FA. So that the Broyles/Criner/Whites of the world have time to adjust to the speed of the NFL game in a natural progression.

 

[TimeKiller]

I think I would do a double back flip if it happened like this. I don't think Burfict falls all the way to the bottom of the 2nd, nor Criner to the 5th. Van Bergen is a helluva a pick too. Probably should grab a WR in the 2nd, lots of options and open up your other picks to fill up the OL depth.

 

[WolverineFan]

I post this in every mock thread because this never ends...

Why do we need a 'huge' NT? What impression has Wade given that he needs a 335 lb guy in the middle? We just finished 4th in the league in run defense and held Ray Rice to 60 yds on 21 carries in a road playoff game.

Wade seems perfectly content to run with smaller guys (if 300 is small) because that's how he likes to run his front. Why not a guy like Jerel Worthy, who is a much better prospect?

I don't really see NT as an immediate need, unless you're talking about a mid-round prospect for depth.

As for Cliff Harris, I think people overrate his coverage skills because he can return kicks. He has good coverage skills for a guy who also returns kicks, but he is not on the same level as Claiborne IMO. Don't get me wrong, he's a good player, but he's not on that level when it comes to coverage. He is a ball hawk though.

 

[badboy]

I post this in every mock thread because this never ends...

Why do we need a 'huge' NT? What impression has Wade given that he needs a 335 lb guy in the middle? We just finished 4th in the league in run defense and held Ray Rice to 60 yds on 21 carries in a road playoff game.

Wade seems perfectly content to run with smaller guys (if 300 is small) because that's how he likes to run his front. Why not a guy like Jerel Worthy, who is a much better prospect?

I don't really see NT as an immediate need, unless you're talking about a mid-round prospect for depth.

As for Cliff Harris, I think people overrate his coverage skills because he can return kicks. He has good coverage skills for a guy who also returns kicks, but he is not on the same level as Claiborne IMO. Don't get me wrong, he's a good player, but he's not on that level when it comes to coverage. He is a ball hawk though.

Where do you get that Wade is content? He played with what he had & used picks for more desperate need and who can blame his choices of Watt & Reed? A NT takes a tremendous pounding as he blocks 2 and often 3 opponents.

A big NT in 3-4 is like having a big, fast RB in our offense. Smaller guys can do all right but when we got Foster, Tate and Ward we see how that worked much better. Many Texans observers on MB have noted that Wade did well with offense but much of it is fooling the O. That will work for a while but sometime a Power player is needed. Our run defense is predicated on ILBs helping to plug the run to support our NT. Mitchell always looks better when he can go strong at the QB in passing downs and with slides against angle runs. He does not do as well straight up against RBs. This why Cody is the main guy against run. A Poe or Ta'Amu would be great.

Harris is not Claiborne but who is? Still Harris has very good cover skills and could be a shut down corner. He does not like to run to the ball to tackle but I want my CBs to focus on eliminating the pass.

 

[kiwitexansfan]

I don't see NT as being as big an issue as others do. I thought Cody and Mitchell did pretty good. Then we have the old question of whether the big fattie is what Wade wants.

As for the CB, do you really think the Texans will draft those character issues?

Overall though I can't argue with the positions plugged.

 

[Wolf6151]

I post this in every mock thread because this never ends...

Why do we need a 'huge' NT? What impression has Wade given that he needs a 335 lb guy in the middle? We just finished 4th in the league in run defense and held Ray Rice to 60 yds on 21 carries in a road playoff game.

Wade seems perfectly content to run with smaller guys (if 300 is small) because that's how he likes to run his front. Why not a guy like Jerel Worthy, who is a much better prospect?

I don't really see NT as an immediate need, unless you're talking about a mid-round prospect for depth.

As for Cliff Harris, I think people overrate his coverage skills because he can return kicks. He has good coverage skills for a guy who also returns kicks, but he is not on the same level as Claiborne IMO. Don't get me wrong, he's a good player, but he's not on that level when it comes to coverage. He is a ball hawk though.

I've got to agree with Wolverine here. Wade's one gap system relies more on quickness and penetration than just stuffing the line of scrimmage. In the past Wade has always worked with what he has, he does modify his system to fit the talent that he's got to work with so I think he can go either way on the NT issue. I think a guy like Worthy or Brandon Thompson, 2 guys with size and quickness would work well for Wade more so than the huge 2 gap space eaters like Poe or Ta'amu. Josh Chapman is another guy that's big without being huge and strong as an ox that would work in Wade's 1 gap system.


Has anyone actually seen Poe play, in person at the game, on television, or in game internet video? I can't find anything on this guy when I do a Google search. I see lots of interview and weight lifting but no game footage. Could someone please post a link if you've found some game tape of him playing, I'd really like to see what he can do. I can't support a 1st round pick on a player I've never seen play.

 

[srrono]

I really want the Texans to take a late pick on a change of pace speed back like
Chris Rainey RB Florida 4.36 40time

 

[WolverineFan]

I've got to agree with Wolverine here. Wade's one gap system relies more on quickness and penetration than just stuffing the line of scrimmage. In the past Wade has always worked with what he has, he does modify his system to fit the talent that he's got to work with so I think he can go either way on the NT issue. I think a guy like Worthy or Brandon Thompson, 2 guys with size and quickness would work well for Wade more so than the huge 2 gap space eaters like Poe or Ta'amu. Josh Chapman is another guy that's big without being huge and strong as an ox that would work in Wade's 1 gap system.


Has anyone actually seen Poe play, in person at the game, on television, or in game internet video? I can't find anything on this guy when I do a Google search. I see lots of interview and weight lifting but no game footage. Could someone please post a link if you've found some game tape of him playing, I'd really like to see what he can do. I can't support a 1st round pick on a player I've never seen play.

Exactly, thank you. When he first came in Wade said he had no issue with who we have at NT. It's the fans who seem to think there's a problem and, IMO, it's because many of you think that it's a must that you have a big 'space-eating' guy in the middle when running a 3-4. Not true. Wade runs a different system than Pittsburgh, San Diego, etc.

His front is predicated on big guys who can stop the run but also rush the passer. Hence Watt, Smith, Cody, etc. A 335 lb guy isn't going to create much pass rush. I think a guy like Worthy is definitely someone they would target if NT was a need, but I don't really see it as one.

 

[kiwitexansfan]

I really want the Texans to take a late pick on a change of pace speed back like
Chris Rainey RB Florida 4.36 40time

I really wanted Taiwan Jones last year.

I would take a back in a similar mode this year too.

 

[Rey]

I really want the Texans to take a late pick on a change of pace speed back like
Chris Rainey RB Florida 4.36 40time

Either he or Demps would be cool with me...

 

[bah007]

I'll take the most talented NT over the biggest every time. Wolverine is right. The obsession with size at that position is ridiculous around here. Like I've been saying all season long, give me Brandon Thompson.

If you think Poe is the best guy, you take him. But you don't take him just because of how big he is, especially when there are better players still out there.

 

[badboy]

Exactly, thank you. When he first came in Wade said he had no issue with who we have at NT. It's the fans who seem to think there's a problem and, IMO, it's because many of you think that it's a must that you have a big 'space-eating' guy in the middle when running a 3-4. Not true. Wade runs a different system than Pittsburgh, San Diego, etc.

His front is predicated on big guys who can stop the run but also rush the passer. Hence Watt, Smith, Cody, etc. A 335 lb guy isn't going to create much pass rush. I think a guy like Worthy is definitely someone they would target if NT was a need, but I don't really see it as one.

Just curious, what was he supposed to say? "I prefer a bigger player but I got stuck with these and I have plans already for the draft picks to shore up other areas."

I have pushed for a big nasty but do not say it's a must. I believe a big NT that is in shape (not a Hainesworth fattie) can absorb more of the damage received than a Mitchell type. I don't see either of our NTs putting much pressure on QB. Those that can shut down the run AND disrupt the QB are rare imo. I really want a NT to tie up 2-3 blockers every play, if he can collapse the pocket even better. Just don't see Cody or Mitchell doing that.

 

[WolverineFan]

Just curious, what was he supposed to say?

You are reading way too much into it. If the guys says he likes who we have there then he likes who we have there.

And Mitchell lived in the backfield against Cincy.

 

[WolverineFan]

I have pushed for a big nasty but do not say it's a must. I believe a big NT that is in shape (not a Hainesworth fattie) can absorb more of the damage received than a Mitchell type. I don't see either of our NTs putting much pressure on QB. Those that can shut down the run AND disrupt the QB are rare imo. I really want a NT to tie up 2-3 blockers every play, if he can collapse the pocket even better. Just don't see Cody or Mitchell doing that.

Again, we don't ask our NT to tie up 2-3 blockers. That's what everyone seems to be stuck on. Wade runs a non-traditional 3-4 where you don't ask your front to take double teams every play. You get big guys who can penetrate and get after the Quarterback.

 

[badboy]

Again, we don't ask our NT to tie up 2-3 blockers. That's what everyone seems to be stuck on. Wade runs a non-traditional 3-4 where you don't ask your front to take double teams every play. You get big guys who can penetrate and get after the Quarterback.

Sorry not giving in on this. Neither of our NTs can take up double teams well play after play. They can't physically do that. My understanding of Phillips comments are different than yours. I went thru this type of debate for years with posters saying "You don't need bigger backs to get thousand yards in Denver's system". We had pages and pages pro & con. Yet we get Foster and his first full year he leads NFL; no other Texan back got even close. Then we get Tate and Derek Ward.

 

[badboy]

I've got to agree with Wolverine here. Wade's one gap system relies more on quickness and penetration than just stuffing the line of scrimmage. In the past Wade has always worked with what he has, he does modify his system to fit the talent that he's got to work with so I think he can go either way on the NT issue. I think a guy like Worthy or Brandon Thompson, 2 guys with size and quickness would work well for Wade more so than the huge 2 gap space eaters like Poe or Ta'amu. Josh Chapman is another guy that's big without being huge and strong as an ox that would work in Wade's 1 gap system.


Has anyone actually seen Poe play, in person at the game, on television, or in game internet video? I can't find anything on this guy when I do a Google search. I see lots of interview and weight lifting but no game footage. Could someone please post a link if you've found some game tape of him playing, I'd really like to see what he can do. I can't support a 1st round pick on a player I've never seen play.

Here is a direct quote from Wade that shows he works with what he has in regards to the Nose:


“It seems simple, but if you’ve got a great big guy that can’t penetrate, like some of the guys I’ve had, then you let him play right in the middle of the (center). If you’ve got a guy that’s quick, you let him stunt. If you’ve got a guy that’s strong, you let him power one side or the other of the center. That’s just the way you coach football. We can take a guy that has good ability – and I think both the guys we have have real good ability – and get him to play well.”

http://blog.houstontexans.com/2011/05/20/on-nose-tackles-phillips’-history-backs-up-words/

Posted in May by Scurfield.

I think offensive needs will outweigh defensive in next draft so I do not anticipate seeing a NT taken before round 4 of any shape or size.

 

[bah007]

Here is a direct quote from Wade that shows he works with what he has in regards to the Nose:


“It seems simple, but if you’ve got a great big guy that can’t penetrate, like some of the guys I’ve had, then you let him play right in the middle of the (center). If you’ve got a guy that’s quick, you let him stunt. If you’ve got a guy that’s strong, you let him power one side or the other of the center. That’s just the way you coach football. We can take a guy that has good ability – and I think both the guys we have have real good ability – and get him to play well.”

http://blog.houstontexans.com/2011/05/20/on-nose-tackles-phillips’-history-backs-up-words/

Posted in May by Scurfield.

I think offensive needs will outweigh defensive in next draft so I do not anticipate seeing a NT taken before round 4 of any shape or size.

That quote by Wade, especially the last sentence, just reinforces what I've been saying all along. Take the BEST PLAYER. Not the biggest player.

Why hamstring yourself with a less talented player? Why take a good big guy who Wade can get good play from when you can take a better semi-big guy who Wade can get better play from?

Talent is more important than weight, especially when you have a coach like Wade who can maximize that talent by using it correctly.

 

[bah007]

Sorry not giving in on this. Neither of our NTs can take up double teams well play after play. They can't physically do that. My understanding of Phillips comments are different than yours. I went thru this type of debate for years with posters saying "You don't need bigger backs to get thousand yards in Denver's system". We had pages and pages pro & con. Yet we get Foster and his first full year he leads NFL; no other Texan back got even close. Then we get Tate and Derek Ward.

Just because you were right about a bigger back does not mean that every position on the field needs to be filled with bigger guys.

Here's a question. Did Foster lead the NFL because of his size or because of his ability? His size is definitely a contributing factor, but it would be outrageous to say that it is THE reason.

 

[76Texan]

I've got to agree with Wolverine here. Wade's one gap system relies more on quickness and penetration than just stuffing the line of scrimmage. In the past Wade has always worked with what he has, he does modify his system to fit the talent that he's got to work with so I think he can go either way on the NT issue. I think a guy like Worthy or Brandon Thompson, 2 guys with size and quickness would work well for Wade more so than the huge 2 gap space eaters like Poe or Ta'amu. Josh Chapman is another guy that's big without being huge and strong as an ox that would work in Wade's 1 gap system.


Has anyone actually seen Poe play, in person at the game, on television, or in game internet video? I can't find anything on this guy when I do a Google search. I see lots of interview and weight lifting but no game footage. Could someone please post a link if you've found some game tape of him playing, I'd really like to see what he can do. I can't support a 1st round pick on a player I've never seen play.

I've been trying to calm down people from day one that Wade can go many ways as far as NT is concerned - big or small; but it would never hurt to see if we can actually improve a position (if there's one in the draft).

I'm not endorsing Poe or any DL, but there are a few youtube videos out there.
It takes a while to search.
Go to youtube and start searching for memphis.
Next check out their opponents the last two years and search youtube for their games.
For Memphis, I found Miss. St., SMU, and Houston to start with.

Poe isn't a floppy kind of guy as one would expect, but he doesn't look like a first rounder to me either (on first impression.)

I noticed a play where they tripled-team him, but then there were also plays they beat him one-on-one with the Guard.
Yeah, these are highlights from other teams, but you can't help but wonder when they ran straight at him or near him; it's a little troublesome when you're talking about SMU and UH (the UH game was from the year before, without Case Keenum at QB).

BTW, I saw him pretty much at 43 UT (not NT).

I was disappointed that his strength didn't quite show up on the field (obviously pad level is a concern).
On the other hand, he does have a very good first step and burst (when he can time it right) even to be effective on a stunt - which is difficult for a big man.

It's weird because what I thought I would see (a big NT who eat up space) didn't materialize as much as a penetrator (that I didn't expect to see).
I think the dude can be quick if the coaches and the training learn him to be consistent at it.

(I don't know who said it, maybe John Madden, if the guy can do it one time, you can teach him to do it again.)

Perhaps Martin can tell us more about what he's seen?

 

[badboy]

Just because you were right about a bigger back does not mean that every position on the field needs to be filled with bigger guys.

Here's a question. Did Foster lead the NFL because of his size or because of his ability? His size is definitely a contributing factor, but it would be outrageous to say that it is THE reason.

I think Foster was good not only because of his abilities to see a cut back lane or a hole but to have the power to rip past tacklers and out of their tackles. His bulk also allowed him to hold up better to blows (same for linemen).

You need to pause and read or remember threads about WRs, TEs, LBs and DBs being bigger and faster. It is not just RBs. Remember all the posts about Chris Myers and his size? He has developed into a better player as he matured in the system but we still get calls for a bigger center. If you placed a poll Myers over a 310lb center with equal skills who'd get most votes? Myers advantage is his knowledge.

I never said a bigger NT would be the better choice than a better player at a smaller size. I do say all things reasonably the same, bigger is usually better. For example, I championed 5'10" Brandon Harris over Prince Amukamara 6' 2 206. Talent over size.

 

[badboy]

I've been trying to calm down people from day one that Wade can go many ways as far as NT is concerned - big or small; but it would never hurt to see if we can actually improve a position (if there's one in the draft).

I'm not endorsing Poe or any DL, but there are a few youtube videos out there.
It takes a while to search.
Go to youtube and start searching for memphis.
Next check out their opponents the last two years and search youtube for their games.
For Memphis, I found Miss. St., SMU, and Houston to start with.

Poe isn't a floppy kind of guy as one would expect, but he doesn't look like a first rounder to me either (on first impression.)

I noticed a play where they tripled-team him, but then there were also plays they beat him one-on-one with the Guard.
Yeah, these are highlights from other teams, but you can't help but wonder when they ran straight at him or near him; it's a little troublesome when you're talking about SMU and UH (the UH game was from the year before, without Case Keenum at QB).

BTW, I saw him pretty much at 43 UT (not NT).

I was disappointed that his strength didn't quite show up on the field (obviously pad level is a concern).
On the other hand, he does have a very good first step and burst (when he can time it right) even to be effective on a stunt - which is difficult for a big man.

It's weird because what I thought I would see (a big NT who eat up space) didn't materialize as much as a penetrator (that I didn't expect to see).
I think the dude can be quick if the coaches and the training learn him to be consistent at it.

(I don't know who said it, maybe John Madden, if the guy can do it one time, you can teach him to do it again.)

Perhaps Martin can tell us more about what he's seen?

Same evaluation on Poe when I started pushing him. Agree he is not a first round BUT will probably be drafted there as a team will not want to chance losing him. Agree also he needs NFL training as most college players at all positions do. Texans would be perfect as he could learn behind Cody (whom i think as really done well all things considered.) The Nose has dropped on my board as you can tell from my most recent mock. Poe is a better penetrator than many will think. Same with my new guy Mister Cobble.