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Richard Smith/Hoke/Franklin - fired!!!

infantrycak said:
And Marinelli has never called a D.
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Yeah, but I count him as experienced after that hellacious experience he just came out of. :(

I have to bring this up, unfortunately:

Who was the DC for the Broncos the years they won the back-to-back Super Bowls, and is he currently employed?
 
DiehardChris said:
Ugh! It's like nobody is paying attention. Mangini is a 3-4 guy. Phillips is a 3-4 guy. Crennel is a 3-4 guy. We do not have the personnel for a 3-4 defense! It would mean starting from scratch, and we can't do that. Next year is too important.

Greg Williams and Rod Marinelli are the only two REALISTIC candidates I've heard so far that do anything for me.

Sorry for snapping... I'm just tired of seeing all these 3-4 guys. There's NO WAY IN HELL they hire a 3-4 guy.
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I'd go with Williams if I have to, but would the guys really respect someone (Marinelli) who got fired after leading a team to a perfect winless record? Its Greg Williams who's the better fit of the more competent available DCs.
 
Texans_Chick said:
I found it disconcerting Kubiak's response to the experience question....

Something to the effect of we will be talking to people with DC experience and some without and that it wasn't the key issue.

Bleh.

He needs an experienced DC. He just does.
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Yep, I was thinking the same thing. I think he already knows it's gonna be Bush, just that feeling I have in the old gut, and not a very good feeling to tell the truth. Kubes seems to like giving guys a chance. As I've said MANY times on this board, I am SICK of the Texans being used as a training ground for wanna be coaches. Put some money and experience into the pick and lets get on with building a competitive team. Sorry, but, I'm just not in the mood to give someone else 3 yrs to learn the job.
 
DiehardChris said:
Yeah, but I count him as experienced after that hellacious experience he just came out of. :(

I have to bring this up, unfortunately:

Who was the DC for the Broncos the years they won the back-to-back Super Bowls, and is he currently employed?
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Greg Robinson (born October 9, 1951 in Los Angeles, California) is an American football coach. He was most recently the head coach of the Syracuse University Orange football team from 2005 until 2008. Robinson also served as the co-defensive coordinator at the University of Texas during the 2004 season. Prior to his role at Texas, he was defensive coordinator for three teams in the National Football League: the Kansas City Chiefs under Dick Vermeil, the Denver Broncos under Mike Shanahan, where his team won two Super Bowl championships in 1997 and 1998, and the New York Jets under Pete Carroll.

From Wiki
 
brakos82 said:
Greg Robinson (born October 9, 1951 in Los Angeles, California) is an American football coach. He was most recently the head coach of the Syracuse University Orange football team from 2005 until 2008. Robinson also served as the co-defensive coordinator at the University of Texas during the 2004 season. Prior to his role at Texas, he was defensive coordinator for three teams in the National Football League: the Kansas City Chiefs under Dick Vermeil, the Denver Broncos under Mike Shanahan, where his team won two Super Bowl championships in 1997 and 1998, and the New York Jets under Pete Carroll.

From Wiki
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So - he's currently not working.

Ladies and Gentlemen - the favorite for the Texans' DC job - Greg Robinson.

Thanks for the info, Brak.
 
SheTexan said:
Yep, I was thinking the same thing. I think he already knows it's gonna be Bush, just that feeling I have in the old gut, and not a very good feeling to tell the truth. Kubes seems to like giving guys a chance. As I've said MANY times on this board, I am SICK of the Texans being used as a training ground for wanna be coaches. Put some money and experience into the pick and lets get on with building a competitive team. Sorry, but, I'm just not in the mood to give someone else 3 yrs to learn the job.
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Yeesh, I'm with you there on this SheTexan. Kubes has to know that his job rides on next year and I don't see how he can gamble on a guy without DC experience. Maybe he figures there aren't any homeruns out there available for the job and anyone could be a gamble, but I'd rather not have another guy learning on the job when we should be contending for a playoff spot next year. The defense HAS to turn it around and what did Bush really learn under Smith that he could extract and turn into defensive gold?
 
IlliniJen said:
Yeesh, I'm with you there on this SheTexan. Kubes has to know that his job rides on next year and I don't see how he can gamble on a guy without DC experience. Maybe he figures there aren't any homeruns out there available for the job and anyone could be a gamble, but I'd rather not have another guy learning on the job when we should be contending for a playoff spot next year. The defense HAS to turn it around and what did Bush really learn under Smith that he could extract and turn into defensive gold?
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So the question is....would Kubes mind a DC making more money than him at the cost of having a great D and winning team?
 
DiehardChris said:
Ugh! It's like nobody is paying attention. Mangini is a 3-4 guy. Phillips is a 3-4 guy. Crennel is a 3-4 guy. We do not have the personnel for a 3-4 defense! It would mean starting from scratch, and we can't do that. Next year is too important.

Greg Williams and Rod Marinelli are the only two REALISTIC candidates I've heard so far that do anything for me.

Sorry for snapping... I'm just tired of seeing all these 3-4 guys. There's NO WAY IN HELL they hire a 3-4 guy.
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infantrycak said:
And Marinelli has never called a D.
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We need a D-Line coach and that is what merinelli was in TB and would be an excellent option there. Mike Nolan ran a 4-3 and a 3-4 Defense.
 
I'd love to see some of these names come in but in the bland, doing things by the book world of the Texans they will stay the course and just hire Bush and go from there. The excuse not to change to a high end coordinator will be.."he knows our personnel and they respect him." Just mark my word now and you will hear this from Kubes.
 
HoustonFrog said:
I'd love to see some of these names come in but in the bland, doing things by the book world of the Texans they will stay the course and just hire Bush and go from there. The excuse not to change to a high end coordinator will be.."he knows our personnel and they respect him." Just mark my word now and you will hear this from Kubes.
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After seven years of that same ole quote, lets hope they see the light and NOT be predictable.
 
Well at first I kept thinking, now they have to start over with learning a defense and we will hear the same quote that it is going to take another year because we have to get the defense to learn the system.

Then I thought about it and realized they never really learned a system to begin with and once you just tell them to get the QB, everything else falls in place, so there shouldn't be any drop off.

What is Jerry Gray doing these days?

What if 49ers go for a coach like Mangini and Singletary is free again?
 
DiehardChris said:
I'm also guessing Bush is plan B if they don't get the guy the want. I think if he was going to be the new DC, they would have announced it at the same time as Smith's firing.
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I think they have to interview a black candidate first as to not get in trouble...

21.jpg



errr... nevermind. Maybe they have to interview a white candidate so they don't get in trouble. :)

What's a thread without having to be P.C.?
 
El Tejano said:
Well at first I kept thinking, now they have to start over with learning a defense and we will hear the same quote that it is going to take another year because we have to get the defense to learn the system.

Then I thought about it and realized they never really learned a system to begin with and once you just tell them to get the QB, everything else falls in place, so there shouldn't be any drop off.

What is Jerry Gray doing these days?

What if 49ers go for a coach like Mangini and Singletary is free again?
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Singletary is the 49er coach.
 
El Tejano said:
Well at first I kept thinking, now they have to start over with learning a defense and we will hear the same quote that it is going to take another year because we have to get the defense to learn the system.
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Well, I guess I should bet on Atlanta next year. Just think how good they'll be when they aren't shackled by coaching changes and new players.

or

The "it takes a year if something changes" bromide isn't all that accurate, although useful for "wait until next year" purposes.


I expect the defense to step it up next year no matter who they hire. No excuses about gelling or wrong personel for the new system should be acceptable. The Texans should bring in a coach that matches the talent available (roster, free agents, draft), or somebody messed up selecting the new coach.
 
brakos82 said:
Greg Robinson (born October 9, 1951 in Los Angeles, California) is an American football coach. He was most recently the head coach of the Syracuse University Orange football team from 2005 until 2008. Robinson also served as the co-defensive coordinator at the University of Texas during the 2004 season. Prior to his role at Texas, he was defensive coordinator for three teams in the National Football League: the Kansas City Chiefs under Dick Vermeil, the Denver Broncos under Mike Shanahan, where his team won two Super Bowl championships in 1997 and 1998, and the New York Jets under Pete Carroll.

From Wiki
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I think Robinson or Bush will be the pick. JMO
 
Was Frank Bush possibly calling the plays for the defense towards the end of the season as a try out? Pure speculation on my part, but just wondering.
 
Big Lou said:
Was Frank Bush possibly calling the plays for the defense towards the end of the season as a try out? Pure speculation on my part, but just wondering.
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Meh, unless Bush gets the job and its mentioned in an interview, I doubt we'll ever know. One of the players might let it slip though. We should ask Dunta Robinson.
 
Texans_Chick said:
I found it disconcerting Kubiak's response to the experience question....

Something to the effect of we will be talking to people with DC experience and some without and that it wasn't the key issue.

Bleh.

He needs an experienced DC. He just does.
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Yes and I'm of the opinion that he should know this by now. This is more of that learning curve thing we're all kind of "nervous" about with Kubiak. Yes he's getting better but damn, by the time he gets this all figured out it feels like we'll be dead of old age.

Go find a known quantity Gary. Please!
 
If we're promoting in-house I think I'd rather have Holland than Bush. The linebackers were the lone bright spot (outside of Mario) on defense. Honestly I'm not even sure what Bush did for the D. Robinson? Well he did win 2 super bowls, can't be all bad news.

There is talent on this defense, someone will be able to bring it out.
 
Texans_Chick said:
I found it disconcerting Kubiak's response to the experience question....

Something to the effect of we will be talking to people with DC experience and some without and that it wasn't the key issue.

Bleh.

He needs an experienced DC. He just does.
Click to expand...

I would not want to blindly lock into a preference (playing calling experience or 4-3 defense) and then over look a guy has a better overall package..i.e. innovative mind, ability to teach, ability to motivate, etc. It is an easier sell to public if you find an experienced guy, but not always a beter choice.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I would not want to blindly lock into a preference (playing calling experience or 4-3 defense) and then over look a guy has a better overall package..i.e. innovative mind, ability to teach, ability to motivate, etc. It is an easier sell to public if you find an experienced guy, but not always a beter choice.
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Quoting this because I'm down. I think whomever is the next hire for DC should at least get one year to make his case. Richard Smith's case was terrible his first year, and then just as significantly bad the next two.

Even if they hire whatever goofball is currently running the Bronco's defense, I don't care, just as long as it's not that failure that we have been seperated from.
 
MannyFresh said:
So the question is....would Kubes mind a DC making more money than him at the cost of having a great D and winning team?
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Spagnuolo is under contract as the DC for the Giants until after the 2010 season. He can leave for a HC gig, but unless the Giants release him from his contract (which they're never going to do), he can't make a lateral move no matter what the pay is.

Non-starter of an idea.
 
ChampionTexan said:
Spagnuolo is under contract as the DC for the Giants until after the 2010 season. He can leave for a HC gig, but unless the Giants release him from his contract (which they're never going to do), he can't make a lateral move no matter what the pay is.

Non-starter of an idea.
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The league has been letting people get around that for years by just awarding them a title like Sherman had--assistant head coach.
 
infantrycak said:
The league has been letting people get around that for years by just awarding them a title like Sherman had--assistant head coach.
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I thought they cracked down on that a few years ago. I can't remember a situation where an established coordinator who was under contract made a move to become Asst. Head Coach somewhere - can you?
 
DiehardChris said:
Ugh! It's like nobody is paying attention. Mangini is a 3-4 guy. Phillips is a 3-4 guy. Crennel is a 3-4 guy. We do not have the personnel for a 3-4 defense! It would mean starting from scratch, and we can't do that. Next year is too important.

Greg Williams and Rod Marinelli are the only two REALISTIC candidates I've heard so far that do anything for me.

Sorry for snapping... I'm just tired of seeing all these 3-4 guys. There's NO WAY IN HELL they hire a 3-4 guy.
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you don't think those guys can run a 4-3 defense? they all have run it during their careers and I believe Mangini ran a hybrid between 4-3 and 3-4 as recently as this year.

I understand your skepticism and your passion, I am just pointing out guys that have a history of success that could be great additions to our coaching staff.

I just don't want some unproven guy that is going to need (and get) a few years of trial and error. We need a guy to step right in and for there to be no excuses. Excuses have plagued this franchise since day one.

All bets are off this offseason if a Shanahan can be fired. Who knows what is going to happen. I wonder if the Texans search for DC is affected by Shanahan's uncertain status as he may be assembling a new staff in the next few days.
 
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ArlingtonTexan said:
I would not want to blindly lock into a preference (playing calling experience or 4-3 defense) and then over look a guy has a better overall package..i.e. innovative mind, ability to teach, ability to motivate, etc. It is an easier sell to public if you find an experienced guy, but not always a beter choice.
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I would be good with a position coach who has a history of success but a lot of those guys are in the playoff hunt right now.

I think for THIS TEAM, a team who is so looking for direction, they need coaches that they can believe in and have a track record of success.

I concur that it is good to keep your options open. And as we learned with the last coaching search, you don't always get your first choices.
 
ChampionTexan said:
I thought they cracked down on that a few years ago. I can't remember a situation where an established coordinator who was under contract made a move to become Asst. Head Coach somewhere - can you?
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Can't think of any off the top of my head but I am pretty sure it has happened a couple times in the past couple off-seasons.
 
Hervoyel said:
Yes and I'm of the opinion that he should know this by now. This is more of that learning curve thing we're all kind of "nervous" about with Kubiak. Yes he's getting better but damn, by the time he gets this all figured out it feels like we'll be dead of old age.

Go find a known quantity Gary. Please!
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Sometimes I wonder if Gary means what he says, or if he says goofy stuff sometimes on the spur of the moment that doesn't mean much of anything.

This would fit under the "goofy stuff sometimes on the spur of the moment that doesn't mean much of anything" umbrella.

Surely he should know, by now, that he needs a guy with a recent track record of experience AND success?

I would say Bush has about a 75% chance of being the new DC, and that's why he's retained and not fired today. If the FO interviews and finds a guy who can deliver a defense style that suits the roster and jives with Kubiak's mentality of things...then we'll see an outside guy get the gig.

But it looks like Bush is in the lead today.
 
GP said:
I would say Bush has about a 75% chance of being the new DC, and that's why he's retained and not fired today. If the FO interviews and finds a guy who can deliver a defense style that suits the roster and jives with Kubiak's mentality of things...then we'll see an outside guy get the gig.

But it looks like Bush is in the lead today.
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I don't see it. At best I would switch Bush to having the 25% vs 75% for the field. Kubiak made a few statements that lead me to this belief. He said he didn't see any improvement from the defense for the last three years and he implied that he wants to change the direction completely. He also talked about how he would be looking at a lot of candidates, some who have experience and some who don't but he thinks can be good DCs. He has a list and I'm pretty sure he has some early favorites.

Pretty much I think it is a good bet that Bush is a part of our defensive staff next season, but he will not be our DC.
 
Hervoyel said:
Yes and I'm of the opinion that he should know this by now. This is more of that learning curve thing we're all kind of "nervous" about with Kubiak. Yes he's getting better but damn, by the time he gets this all figured out it feels like we'll be dead of old age.

Go find a known quantity Gary. Please!
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I think he was being vague because you never know who you will be able to get. He knows you don't always have the opportunity to get your first choice.

Things for the Texans in hiring a DC:

-McNair has $$$
-McNair is considered a good owner. He is very good to his coaching staff. He doesn't meddle.
-No state income tax
-Nice facilities
-Offensive minded head coach won't get in your kitchen so much
-Some core good players
-You know the offense can get good time of possession.

Things against the Texans in hiring a DC:

-Lack of tradition and publicity for the Texans
-Do you really want to take over one of the worst defenses in the league? If you fix it you are a hero, but can you fix it?
-May have more quality 3-4 guys available
-Denver connection people. Head coaches like guys they have a relationship with. Many of the ex-Denver defensive guys are bleh.
 
I am hoping for the Texans to go for an known commodity when it comes to a DC.. We are basically in a "now" phase of this team to get to the playoffs. I would rather have someone that knows how to run this thing and get this defense top notch. Then if the time comes where our DC has to move on to a HC gig .. Then Bush or Holland or whoever is on the staff will gain some more knowledge and then if they have to step in, they can and hopefully we as fans can feel comfortable with that. Right now I don't feel Comfortable with the "experience" that Bush has.. He might have book smarts, but would he have "game day" smarts..


time will tell

and by the way, I changed my avatar to the "thumbs up smiley" ad few days ago to give Kubiak the green light to do the firing :smiliedance: :tease:
 
Texans_Chick said:
-Denver connection people. Head coaches like guys they have a relationship with. Many of the ex-Denver defensive guys are bleh.
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The results certainly have been bleh, but I wonder if there is a groceries argument. Look at how there defense has been built recently--cast offs, busts and 2nd day picks with a couple exceptions in Bailey and DJ Williams.

Shanahan was the grocery shopper. Interesting rumor is Denver told Shanahan to get rid of their DC and he refused so they canned the lot.
 
infantrycak said:
The results certainly have been bleh, but I wonder if there is a groceries argument. Look at how there defense has been built recently--cast offs, busts and 2nd day picks with a couple exceptions in Bailey and DJ Williams.

Shanahan was the grocery shopper. Interesting rumor is Denver told Shanahan to get rid of their DC and he refused so they canned the lot.
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Smith = Slowik
 
Congrats to Gary Kubiak for opening the 2nd envelope.

Texans_Chick said:
Things against the Texans in hiring a DC:
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How about coming on board with a head coach working on the 4th year of a 5 year contract. Not exactly job security. And having to take on assistants he may not know or may not be familiar with his coaching style or schemes.

Of course, Kubiak on the hot seat might be intriguing for a DC looking to vulture a head coaching job. Which is why Kubiak might want to stay away from a big name or young hot shot.
 
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