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Richard Justice's comments on Chris Palmer on 610 This Morning

AlexVanderpool

AlexVanderpool

Waterboy
I dont know if this has been posted, but on the bench this morning justice commented that:

-at the end of the season, the powers that be (mcnair, cass, and capers?) sat Chris Palmer down and had a intervention-type meeting with him to do whatever it takes to drastically improve the blocking schemes in the offensive line. Justice later said that he heard palmer say off the record that he didnt feel like the blocking was bad last season and that Carr did not get sacked all that much.

If this is true, I really feel bad for Carr...
 
Weird. I just posted in a thread on this very topic. I think Palmer is on the hot seat this season. If the offense doesn't improve drastically and Carr takes a pounding, I expect him gone.
 
The blocking was not that bad? I guess that was a figment of my imagination when I saw Carr running around against Indy twice and against Cleveland in particular. :heh:
 
Ok... I dunno the context it was put in when palmer said it.. but yah.. if Carr gets manhandled again.. we will start a dang picket line at reliant to get Palmer fired heh.
 
If CARR gets sacked 20+ times in 6 games OR he is hurt from someone sacking him, I think Palmer might be enjoying new job.
 
Considering we basically had a rookie LT, the starting right side of the line had a ton of injuries and McKinney. Not to mention that they were all learning the zone blocking scheme.
 
i'm sorry but when your QB is throwing a fit on the side lines because the lineman aren't giving him 3 seconds to throw the ball you have blocking problems...depending on who you ask there is two players that are at fault and those are mckinney and wand...i personally think our tackle depth is for **** if i was casserly i'd bring in like 5 OT's just add depth and competition at that position...not for the starters but for the back-ups...hodgden will hopefully take over the back-up center job from washington or one of the guards like brown, weary, or evans...unfortunatly we didn't get a tackle in the draft to develop
 
-at the end of the season, the powers that be (mcnair, cass, and capers?) sat Chris Palmer down and had a intervention-type meeting with him to do whatever it takes to drastically improve the blocking schemes in the offensive line. Justice later said that he heard palmer say off the record that he didnt feel like the blocking was bad last season and that Carr did not get sacked all that much.
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Maybe Capers should stick Palmer under center and then let's see how good he thinks the O line is... :heh:
 
Really like the last one - I agree - I bet if Palmer sat in the pocket 3 or 4 times and got sacked during a practice session - he might be prompted to do things a little better and faster to get the line up to serviceable shape for real games and put in alot more 3 and 5 step drops.

IMO - New scheme or not - those guys are paid good money to do one job for the most part - Protect the QB. They have failed miserably for 3 years now and DC is the guy paying for it. IT wont be long before one or the other breaks. DC cant keep dodging hard shots forever - IF they dont step up the protection a whole lot and make progress, eventually somebody is going to stick DC so hard he's going to be injured - and injured bad. Then the line will have nobody to blame anymore but the guy in the mirror.

Honestly I think they need to bring in every LT that wasnt drafted this past year and have them go thru drills and see if there isnt some bodies we can pick up for depth.
 
Can we deduce that since Palmer is stating that we have no problems with the offensive line, that this is the reason we hav not upgraded it? Our number one problem last year was protecting Carr, we still have not solved it IMHO. Shouldn't we expect more of the same this year? And trust me, you can go ahead an throw Pitts into this problem too, he's as much to blame as any of them.
 
Can we deduce that since Palmer is stating that we no problems with the offensive line that is the reason we havn't upgraded it? Our number one problem last year was protecting Carr, we still have not solved it IMHO. Shouldn't we expect more of the same this year? And trust me, you can go ahead an throw Pitts into this problem too, he's as much to blame as any of them.
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But if McNair, Casserly, and Capers sat Palmer down and told him about the problems with the O line, they know that there is a problem and haven't done anything about it either...one would figure if those 3 realize there is a problem and Palmer is too blind to see it or just won't do anything about it, Capers or Cass should have done something about it already or give Palmer the boot...
 
I'm wondering how Pendry fits into these conversations. If I recall correctly Pendry was brought in as the new OL coach to implement the zone-blocking scheme.
 
texan279 said:
But if McNair, Casserly, and Capers sat Palmer down and told him about the problems with the O line, they know that there is a problem and haven't done anything about it either...one would figure if those 3 realize there is a problem and Palmer is too blind to see it or just won't do anything about it, Capers or Cass should have done something about it already or give Palmer the boot...
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I think that next offseason Palmer will be gone, maybe Vangio (sp?) too. I sure hope so.
 
SESupergenius said:
Can we deduce that since Palmer is stating that we no problems with the offensive line that is the reason we havn't upgraded it? Our number one problem last year was protecting Carr, we still have not solved it IMHO. Shouldn't we expect more of the same this year? And trust me, you can go ahead an throw Pitts into this problem too, he's as much to blame as any of them.
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I'd say we can deduce from the off-season moves and the reported meeting with Palmer that Casserly, Capers and Pendry think the problem is not the players it is the line schemes & play selection called by Palmer. The big question would appear to me to be whether Palmer has been suggested he change the schemes (his head on the block if he doesn't change enough or there isn't enough improvement) or directed to change the schemes (someone else on the hot seat with McNair).
 
I don't know about most of you, but I haven't missed a home game yet and every game I can predict at least 85% of the play calls. I played ball for a number of years, but in no way am I a football genius. If I can predict that many calls, where does the problem lie?
 
infantrycak said:
I'd say we can deduce from the off-season moves....
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You mean lack of off-season moves on the offensive side of the ball right?
:confused:
 
HoustonHarley said:
I don't know about most of you, but I haven't missed a home game yet and every game I can predict at least 85% of the play calls. I played ball for a number of years, but in no way am I a football genius. If I can predict that many calls, where does the problem lie?
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I've never played football in my life, obviously :) and I predicted 90% of the offensive calls last year. My daughter, who knows SQUAT about football, ask me why they did the same thing over and over again. I've watched football for over 50 years, but my daughter goes for the fun. If she noticed how crappy the play calling was, then I can assure you, if was pretty pitiful!!
 
well if Palmer starts making bad calls.. and Carr starts getting roughed up.. is someone gonna step on his neck? or are they gonna let it keep going?

I just dont want to see Carr suffer through another year of bull**** cause our O-coordinator is a blind twerp.
 
What happened last year??? Did we play a lot of 3,4,5 reciever sets like the rams?? Are people on this board calling for more max protection set? What's the solution to Carr's sack totals.
 
tacoman_j said:
What happened last year??? Did we play a lot of 3,4,5 reciever sets like the rams?? Are people on this board calling for more max protection set? What's the solution to Carr's sack totals.
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I think it maybe our tight end formations. From what I hear on here, it sounds like if we get Joppru on the field, then the defenses now start guessing, instead of already knowing the plays before DC says "HUT".
 
Thank you cougar!

The TE shuffle is our achilles heel. If They knew Miller only comes in on passing situations, they knew to bring everyone in a pass rush. An everydown TE will do wonders for Carr's sack total next year. "In Joppru We Trust" However I hope they bring in a lot of young tight ends into camp and see if we can find a good one.
 
Grid said:
if Carr gets manhandled again.. we will start a dang picket line at reliant to get Palmer fired heh.
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Finally, a line that'll do something to protect David Carr! :heh:

I just can't believe Palmer would've said something so stupid. No way that's accurate. But if it is, I'll fly home to join that picket line, boys.
 
TexanExile said:
Finally, a line that'll do something to protect David Carr! :heh:

I just can't believe Palmer would've said something so stupid. No way that's accurate. But if it is, I'll fly home to join that picket line, boys.
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Thats funny! good one
 
SESupergenius said:
You mean lack of off-season moves on the offensive side of the ball right?
:confused:
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The issue with Palmer is not the talent at OT. Instead, you can look to the first Indy game. Seth Wand was given absolutely no help on Freeney that first quarter. An offensive coach with a good gameplan would have implented a strategy which focused on blocking Freeney's pass rush. He's their one true playmaker on defense and was lined up on our first year starter. If you go back and watch that game, a RB chipped him twice, I think, and both of those plays were very effective.

Just because you have 5 eligible receivers each play doesn't mean you must send all 5 out on patterns. Steve Spurrier style offense doesn't get it done in the NFL. I imagine that was what much of this conversation with Palmer was about, and I am glad to hear that it took place.
 
I have been a Palmer supporter, but I'm at the end of my rope. If there is not significant progress made to open holes for the RB's (will someone please cut off the backside pursuit for a change), and most importantly, in making the neccessary changes to protect Carr, then I say dump Palmer, and the whole lot of them, as they are all to blame. A pox on all of their houses should that happen.
 
well joe pendry has been a good o-line coach for years in the league...as for fangio i don't honestly know that much about his record...if they let vic go i would say hoke needs to be the new d. coordinator...as for the new o. coordinator...who knows...seems like it's always harder to find a good offensive coach than it is a defensive one
 
unless someone gets cut in the june 1st post rookie draft purge, but i dont see anyone we go for, very few lineman get cut.
 
If as posted the statments concerning Palmer are true, then this is one of the most inept organizations I have seen. As a manager having explained to an employee what has to be done, the employee says I don't see the problem he should have been fired on the spot. Wait one more year Vinny! People are crazy. I'm laughing so hard its not even funny, because almost everything I have said about this coaching staff and the players in many ways is coming true. Its tragic, because this ball club and its players have been totally mismanaged in my opinion. I have stated we will have to empliment another 5 year plan. A player can't make a mistake in this organization, but a coach can exhibit total disregard of his evaluations can continue on as he pleases. And you wonder why the older key players say its time to move on. Sorry, but the organization is very sick and it will take another 2 or 3 years to clear the coaches out. I think we will be lucky to win 3 or 4 games this year. You chided me for the Titans and look at what they got. Many think they did exceeding well in the draft. I think they stand a good change to beat us, because of the QB and the coaching. Those of you who think we will get two wins from them without a struggle are just blowing smoke. Ladies and Gentlemen we have major problems and we need a whole lot of good coaching and I just don't see that happening. I really wish it wasn't the case. Parcells may be a you know what - and I really don't like him at all - but he does know what he's doing. AG might even become next year's most valueable player. Wouldn't that be a hoot. I still say the injury bug decimated any plans this ball club had. We have yet to recover totally from them. That is just bad luck and I don't think its the coaches fault, but what is, however, is the inability to recognize the problem and to begin to move forward with a new plan. Oh, well, good night and god bless the Texans.
 
keyfro said:
well joe pendry has been a good o-line coach for years in the league...
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Pendry has been an offensive line coach in the NFL for only two seasons; last year in Houston (with center/guard emphasis), and in 2001 with the Redskins. He has nine years of NFL experience as offensive coordinator with Buffalo, Carolina, and KC. His only other stint as a position coach was when he coached RBs at Cleveland in the late 80's and Chicago in the early 90's.

Porky said:
If there is not significant progress made to open holes for the RB's (will someone please cut off the backside pursuit for a change), and most importantly, in making the neccessary changes to protect Carr, then I say dump Palmer, and the whole lot of them, as they are all to blame...
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DD finished the season strong with three 100+ yard games out of the last four. I think opening holes is less of a concern than protection schemes.
 
Ibar_Harry said:
I have stated we will have to empliment another 5 year plan.
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I find all this talk about a five year plan very interesting. I think everyone should consider how many teams have gone to the Super Bowl in just the last five years. In the AFC only three different teams have gone to the Super Bowl in the last five years out of 16 (or 15 before the addition of the Texans). In the last ten years only 6 different AFC teams have attended the big dance, and not one of those teams had been a expansion team in its recent history. I think that if this plan simply refers to making the playoffs, then it is feasible, but if its the Super Bowl we're talkin about it becomes a little more difficult. Expecting a team to go from starting from scratch to the Super Bowl may be a bit of a strech, JMO.
 
Bottle-O-Bud said:
***why are we asking Palmer about the o-line in the first place?***
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This is actually a good question, Bottle-o. Palmer makes the protection calls when he calls a play. He has to use more help instead of isolating all of his blockers all the time. He will need to use the back to do more than chip-block (they don't even chip much either). I think we will see more variety in his calls this year when it comes to protections. You can do too much of either extreme. On the flip side you don't want to use too much max protect to where you never send out more than 2 WR's.
 
Porky said:
I have been a Palmer supporter, but I'm at the end of my rope.
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I have defended Palmer because of his history prior to becoming coach of the Browns. I also felt this team needed 2-3 years to get the core of the team together. We are right there now. It is hard to tell where the lack of talent on the line ends and the pass protection schemes begin. I really don't think the line is that far off. I'm starting to think the problem lies with Palmer and his run-and-shoot style of pass-blocking. Heck the RB usually blocked more in the RnS than in his current pass blocking.
 
>I've never played football in my life, obviously and I predicted 90% of the offensive calls last year. My daughter, who knows SQUAT about football, ask me why they did the same thing over and over again. I've watched football for over 50 years, but my daughter goes for the fun. If she noticed how >crappy the play calling was, then I can assure you, if was pretty pitiful!!

I can do that too. First down, run up the middle. Second down, draw. Third down, incomplete pass/sack. Fourth down, punt.
 
barzilla said:
The blocking was not that bad? I guess that was a figment of my imagination when I saw Carr running around against Indy twice and against Cleveland in particular. :heh:
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how many times did the browns sack carr??? i think it was 4, but im not sure. when u let a stinkin browns defense sack u 4 times, then its clear that ur blocking needs a fixin...
 
Is it my imagination or did the Texans run on first and second downs 85 to 90% of the time? Defense just knows what Palmer is going to call. Gives them the edge regardless of how the Oline plays or who is playing IMO.
 
sax_49 said:
Is it my imagination or did the Texans run on first and second downs 85 to 90% of the time? Defense just knows what Palmer is going to call. Gives them the edge regardless of how the Oline plays or who is playing IMO.
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It is a false perception. It SEEMS like they run on 1st and 2nd down all of the time but time and again we have looked at the stats and they are actually balanced.
 
TheOgre said:
It is a false perception. It SEEMS like they run on 1st and 2nd down all of the time but time and again we have looked at the stats and they are actually balanced.
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I think the confusion comes in because when Carr dropped back to pass it usually became a running play.......Carr running for his life. :D
 
sax_49 said:
Is it my imagination or did the Texans run on first and second downs 85 to 90% of the time?
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It's your imagination. Look up the play by play on nfl.com
 
SESupergenius said:
Can we deduce that since Palmer is stating that we have no problems with the offensive line, that this is the reason we hav not upgraded it? Our number one problem last year was protecting Carr, we still have not solved it IMHO. Shouldn't we expect more of the same this year? And trust me, you can go ahead an throw Pitts into this problem too, he's as much to blame as any of them.
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THANK YOU!!! MR. Chester *OFFSIDES* Pitts is a HUGE part of the problem!
Let's plug in the hole on the left side of the O-line and give Carr time to actually do his thing! He can't throw the bombs when he's sittin on the grass!!!
 
Ibar_Harry said:
If as posted the statments concerning Palmer are true, then this is one of the most inept organizations I have seen. As a manager having explained to an employee what has to be done, the employee says I don't see the problem he should have been fired on the spot. Wait one more year Vinny! People are crazy. I'm laughing so hard its not even funny, because almost everything I have said about this coaching staff and the players in many ways is coming true. Its tragic, because this ball club and its players have been totally mismanaged in my opinion. I have stated we will have to empliment another 5 year plan. A player can't make a mistake in this organization, but a coach can exhibit total disregard of his evaluations can continue on as he pleases. And you wonder why the older key players say its time to move on. Sorry, but the organization is very sick and it will take another 2 or 3 years to clear the coaches out. I think we will be lucky to win 3 or 4 games this year. You chided me for the Titans and look at what they got. Many think they did exceeding well in the draft. I think they stand a good change to beat us, because of the QB and the coaching. Those of you who think we will get two wins from them without a struggle are just blowing smoke. Ladies and Gentlemen we have major problems and we need a whole lot of good coaching and I just don't see that happening. I really wish it wasn't the case. Parcells may be a you know what - and I really don't like him at all - but he does know what he's doing. AG might even become next year's most valueable player. Wouldn't that be a hoot. I still say the injury bug decimated any plans this ball club had. We have yet to recover totally from them. That is just bad luck and I don't think its the coaches fault, but what is, however, is the inability to recognize the problem and to begin to move forward with a new plan. Oh, well, good night and god bless the Texans.
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This absolutely the best post I have ever seen in regards to the Texans. We got behind the 8 ball early due to injuries and not only have we never recovered, we have never adapted or altered our team gameplan. I am telling you now, if we have more than 2 (total) linemen go down, offense and defense combined, we are screwed. Our depth is an embarassment. And here is why we win no more than 6 games this year...all the other teams see what I see but they see more details. They will be coming after Carr like they've never done before.

They say this is just a business. Well, businesses fail every day unless they adapt and make their weakness their strength. Our weakness is both of our lines...sad. :brickwall
 
:neener: If thats the best post I need to find another board or get a life . Its an easy road taking the half empty outlook, you don't have to invest much of yourself .

I believe this is the year where they need to take off the expansion label and perform like a contender . The result of them going 6-10 may cost some jobs because this team is full of young talent and talent is what takes time to assemble . :highfive:
 
I truly believe that Palmer and Fangio should have been part of our off-season cuts. Promote Jon Hoke to D. Coordinator because he is our best D coach, and then go out and find a vertical passing scheme that stresses the type of blocking we are trying to build. Our blocking scheme is trying to become more like that of the Patiots, but we dont have those type of athletes on the line so we need to compensate that by switching to a more Atlanta based zone blocking scheme. I have always had a problem with our play calling because I think as a young team we need to be controlled aggression, but it seems we just try not lose which will always make you lose. Who knows possibly this year we could go 8-8 but it will be a struggle.
 
sax_49 said:
Is it my imagination or did the Texans run on first and second downs 85 to 90% of the time? Defense just knows what Palmer is going to call. Gives them the edge regardless of how the Oline plays or who is playing IMO.
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I think part of the reason for this perception is that we seem to often call a running play when a pass is clearly called for. How many off tackle run plays have been called on 3rd and 8 in the Texans first three years? :brickwall
Maybe there are legit reasons for this, such as the inability to keep the rush off of Carr, nevertheless, a more thorough analysis of down and distance run vs. pass would shed a lot more light on this perception imo.
 
Porky said:
Maybe there are legit reasons for this, such as the inability to keep the rush off of Carr, nevertheless, a more thorough analysis of down and distance run vs. pass would shed a lot more light on this perception imo.
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When can we expect that analysis, Porky? :popcorn:
 
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