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Retreads

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I was going to put this in the other thread, but i just want to explore all possible options. I'm the 1st to admit that I prefer Bienemy. I'm not going to fall into that narrative about him calling plays. As I posted in another thread, this false narrative is consistent with Sherman Lewis back in the day. Going forward, I'm asking the community, are we dismissing the option to give a failed coach a 2nd chance? With the exception of a couple of 1st time coaches, most of the superbowl winning coaches were fired from somewhere else.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I’ve already expressed in another thread that I’m leaning towards a retred and Pettine was on my short list of candidates.

The other guys I had were Dirk Koetter ATL’s OC and Jay Gruden. ATL hasn’t had problems scoring points despite baby shanahan’s departure a few years ago..and Gruden has a well established offensive background both here in the NFL and in arena football where it’s all about points.

T-skyss’s and I briefly touched base on Spags, KC’s DC whom has a damn impressive record of shutting down some of the most explosive offenses in the league over the last 10 years. I said he would immediately go to the top of my list of retreds I would consider, but I would also consider Leslie Frazier as well. Raheem Morris I think deserves a looksee as well.
 
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I’ve already expressed in another thread that I’m leaning towards a retred and Pettine was on my short list of candidates.

The other guys I had were Dirk Koetter ATL’s OC and Jay Gruden. ATL hasn’t had problems scoring points despite baby shanahan’s departure a few years ago..and Gruden has a well established offensive background both here in the NFL and in arena football where it’s all about points.

T-skyss’s and I briefly touched base on Spags, KC’s DC whom has a damn impressive record of shutting down some of the most explosive offenses in the league over the last 10 years. I said he would immediately go to the top of my list of retreds I would consider, but I would also consider Leslie Frazier as well. Raheem Morris I think deserves a looksee as well.
Hard pass on Gruden, his record in Washington is actually worse than BoB's record here. I mean don't get me wrong Washington would be hard for any coach to win in but his last 3 years were complete downward spirals. Even as OC at Jacksonville he's not exactly lighting the world on fire. If you are going to use the Arena football argument then you might as well factor the XFL in and interview Jun Jones. Arena and XFL maybe all about points but that because they were designed that way and that way of thinking is only going to last as long as it takes for you to hit a real defense.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I was going to put this in the other thread, but i just want to explore all possible options. I'm the 1st to admit that I prefer Bienemy. I'm not going to fall into that narrative about him calling plays. As I posted in another thread, this false narrative is consistent with Sherman Lewis back in the day. Going forward, I'm asking the community, are we dismissing the option to give a failed coach a 2nd chance? With the exception of a couple of 1st time coaches, most of the superbowl winning coaches were fired from somewhere else.
Lets see who the leading candidates are before we make a decision on this. My problem with Bienemy in addition to not calling plays is like BOB Bienemy will be getting a job because he's working with the best QB in the NFL. Just like a guy like Gase, who's gotten 2 jobs that he's failed at because he worked with Manning. BOB got his job because he worked with Brady etc... this has been tried many times over the yrs and the failure rate is great. Brad Childress with Favre, Philbin, Caldwell etc....
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Hard pass on Gruden, his record in Washington is actually worse than BoB's record here. I mean don't get me wrong Washington would be hard for any coach to win in but his last 3 years were complete downward spirals. Even as OC at Jacksonville he's not exactly lighting the world on fire. If you are going to use the Arena football argument then you might as well factor the XFL in and interview Jun Jones. Arena and XFL maybe all about points but that because they were designed that way and that way of thinking is only going to last as long as it takes for you to hit a real defense.
Well, Gruden’s, never had the luxury of working with a premier talent at the qb position either...I think maybe he got to work with a ruined RG3 post knee for like a year, but that was about it...but That’s why I said “kick the tires” on Gruden in my post in the other thread.

ultimately I don’t think I’d like him here b/c he gave off that same “I’m a red ass” vibe that BoB gave off. I just remember too many press conferences with him in Washington where he looked like he was about to go off on someone.
 

Scooter

Funky
I wouldn't be totally surprised if BOB succeeds as a HC possibly later in his life.
And it's that nonsense that needs Easterby to be fired before any Josh "I can has Tebow in the first round?" McDaniels ideas can take shape. There is no success story from the Kraft/Belichik line ... 200 years from now there's still going to be a "coached under Belichik" bloodline and the bottom feeder teams fighting to have their franchise crap out for 3 years before firing him. If Houston's still around, we'll double it.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
And it's that nonsense that needs Easterby to be fired before any Josh "I can has Tebow in the first round?" McDaniels ideas can take shape. There is no success story from the Kraft/Belichik line ... 200 years from now there's still going to be a "coached under Belichik" bloodline and the bottom feeder teams fighting to have their franchise crap out for 3 years before firing him. If Houston's still around, we'll double it.
Considering BOB has clearly been the most successful Belichick disciple... you'd think teams wouldn't fall for them again. lol

But I think BOB could be successful if he ever learns to delegate and have more trust in others.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I was upset when I heard McDaniels was going to coach the Colts. I think he’s going to do very well on his next gig.

I don’t understand Bienemy because it seems everyone wants him to install KC’s offense. We’re tired of being Denver South or New England South... but can’t wait to be KC South.

Not that I’m against Bienemy, just the reasoning.
 

Scooter

Funky
I think he’s going to do very well on his next gig.
Why? He (again) and Patricia were the next great Belichick coaches the past few years. McDaniels did everything wrong in Denver, in the same "I learned from Belichick" way as everyone else, with even more FU arrogance than even O'Brien, went BACK to Belichick ... and what? He's now double smart to double destroy a franchise because he was a Belichick disciple twice. Oh, and Patricia ...

Once. That's all it would take - if a coach from the Belichick tree (20 years to draw from in NE) improved a team over time ONCE I would give it consideration. Otherwise it's just a gambler saying "I've lost every time so far, that means I'm due ... right?".

No.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Just give me June Jones and his ready to go staff. Texans have everything on offense to execute his offense.

1. Mobile Strong Arm QB.....Check
2. Mucho Speedy WR's.....Check
3. Receiving TE's....Check
4. Questionable RB's.....Check / Receiving RB's.....Check
5. Shaky OL W/ Potential.....Check

What else could a new HC want?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Why? He (again) and Patricia were the next great Belichick coaches the past few years. McDaniels did everything wrong in Denver, in the same "I learned from Belichick" way as everyone else, with even more FU arrogance than even O'Brien, went BACK to Belichick ... and what? He's now double smart to double destroy a franchise because he was a Belichick disciple twice. Oh, and Patricia ...

Once. That's all it would take - if a coach from the Belichick tree (20 years to draw from in NE) improved a team over time ONCE I would give it consideration. Otherwise it's just a gambler saying "I've lost every time so far, that means I'm due ... right?".

No.
But that’s the case for everybody though. Those guys are gonna install and run their teams from how they learned it under someone. And teams are always gonna poach coaches from the most successful teams hoping to get some of that success to rub off on their franchise.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I was going to put this in the other thread, but i just want to explore all possible options. I'm the 1st to admit that I prefer Bienemy. I'm not going to fall into that narrative about him calling plays. As I posted in another thread, this false narrative is consistent with Sherman Lewis back in the day. Going forward, I'm asking the community, are we dismissing the option to give a failed coach a 2nd chance? With the exception of a couple of 1st time coaches, most of the superbowl winning coaches were fired from somewhere else.
Play calling experience appears to be a very over-rated skillset, IMO.

Personally, I'd rather the HC be 100% into the game instead of absorbed in a Denny's menu or trying to figure out adjustments (y'know, the things coordinators are paid to do).

I like Mike Tomlin's perspective about it:

Tomlin referred to the “moment” determining his involvement in the decision-making.

“Sometimes I make calls. Sometimes I’m a part of the equation in talking about variables relative to a call that needs to be made. Sometimes I’m just listening. It really depends on the moment, or circumstance, or how much time we have for discussion and decision-making.”

And though valuable, he believes execution trumps playcalling, the latter’s importance being “less than 50 percent.”

“The execution is more important than the call.”


Source

THAT sounds like a head coach. :bigboss:
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Chuck Noll, Bill Cowher, and Mike Tomlin are the only Steelers HC's since 1969. 51 years of success. These HC's were known or are known for being great HC's b/c they hire great OC/DC's to do their job. I don't think being over-the-shoulder micro-managers was their forte but being successful and enjoying Super Bowl victories didn't happen by accident.....they were that good.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
Chuck Noll, Bill Cowher, and Mike Tomlin are the only Steelers HC's since 1969. 51 years of success. These HC's were known or are known for being great HC's b/c they hire great OC/DC's to do their job. I don't think being over-the-shoulder micro-managers was their forte but being successful and enjoying Super Bowl victories didn't happen by accident.....they were that good.
The best HC is the one that knows he doesn't have all the answers. That's why they're not afraid to look around for help.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
I have no problem with a retread. Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll are retreads. Sometimes, coaches learn alot from their first experiences as a coach and realize where they went wrong.

I wouldn't be totally surprised if BOB succeeds as a HC possibly later in his life.
With all that’s coming out about how he treats people in the building, I doubt he sees another HC gig in the NFL.

I was upset when I heard McDaniels was going to coach the Colts. I think he’s going to do very well on his next gig.

I don’t understand Bienemy because it seems everyone wants him to install KC’s offense. We’re tired of being Denver South or New England South... but can’t wait to be KC South.

Not that I’m against Bienemy, just the reasoning.
The “insert city” south gets a little overused. Sean McVay came from the Redskins. Is LA considered Washington west?

The next head coach is going to come from somewhere. They all do. If it’s Bienemy, that doesn’t make us KC south. If it’s Roman, that doesn’t make us Baltimore south. You think Tennessee is Houston north because they got Vrabel?

If Bienemy comes here and installs the offense he knows, which yes, he currently runs in KC, then it is what it is.

What coach do you suggest we pick up that wouldn’t make us so and so south?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The “insert city” south gets a little overused
Agreed.

I'm not speaking of you in particular, but look at the other posts on this board, a lot of people want Bienemy because of the KC offense.

Like BO'b, Bienemy walked onto that offense. He didn't install it one time. If he comes here, maybe he'll try to install it. Maybe he'll try to install Colorado's offense, using Andy Reid terminology & maybe we'll find out he's not good at it.

Luckily he'll get 6 years to figure it out.
 
Considering BOB has clearly been the most successful Belichick disciple... you'd think teams wouldn't fall for them again. lol

But I think BOB could be successful if he ever learns to delegate and have more trust in others.
I’ve said it before but this was BoB’s first time as an NFL HC and he acted just like every single other first time manager I have ever seen in any industry. Not knowing how to delegate, micromanaging, paranoid about challenges to their authority because they are still insecure and loosing their cool when things go wrong.

In most cases someone in upper management is guiding them and not letting them go to far but in the Texans case they took a first time manager and made him the CEO. Not excusing BoB but he was doomed to failure from the time they made him GM and a lot of that can be placed directly at the feet of the McNairs.

It’s one of the big reasons I’m reluctant to bring in another first time HC because they will have many of the same issues and unless you have a strong, experienced GM to help guide the ship we could have the same thing happen. Given their history I’m not sure I trust the McNairs to hire that strong, experienced GM.
 
Just give me June Jones and his ready to go staff. Texans have everything on offense to execute his offense.

1. Mobile Strong Arm QB.....Check
2. Mucho Speedy WR's.....Check
3. Receiving TE's....Check
4. Questionable RB's.....Check / Receiving RB's.....Check
5. Shaky OL W/ Potential.....Check

What else could a new HC want?
Not only that but in the XFL the HC was also the GM, so yeah if that doesn’t scream Texans I don’t know what does.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
With all that’s coming out about how he treats people in the building, I doubt he sees another HC gig in the NFL.



The “insert city” south gets a little overused. Sean McVay came from the Redskins. Is LA considered Washington west?

The next head coach is going to come from somewhere. They all do. If it’s Bienemy, that doesn’t make us KC south. If it’s Roman, that doesn’t make us Baltimore south. You think Tennessee is Houston north because they got Vrabel?

If Bienemy comes here and installs the offense he knows, which yes, he currently runs in KC, then it is what it is.

What coach do you suggest we pick up that wouldn’t make us so and so south?
That coach from North Shore HS.

:corrosion:
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
If it’s a retread I’d like to see a nice track record of success since they were last an nfl head coach.

Personally, I’m leaning towards an offensive minded guy so if they were a head coach before I’d like to see them having some recent success with offense. Preferably a style of offense best suited for the QB they hope to have around for a while.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
With all that’s coming out about how he treats people in the building, I doubt he sees another HC gig in the NFL.



The “insert city” south gets a little overused. Sean McVay came from the Redskins. Is LA considered Washington west?

The next head coach is going to come from somewhere. They all do. If it’s Bienemy, that doesn’t make us KC south. If it’s Roman, that doesn’t make us Baltimore south. You think Tennessee is Houston north because they got Vrabel?

If Bienemy comes here and installs the offense he knows, which yes, he currently runs in KC, then it is what it is.

What coach do you suggest we pick up that wouldn’t make us so and so south?
He's not running the offense. Reid is. Does he get to bring Mahomes/Kelce/Hill with him? If so sign me up.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The next head coach is going to come from somewhere. They all do. If it’s Bienemy, that doesn’t make us KC south. If it’s Roman, that doesn’t make us Baltimore south. You think Tennessee is Houston north because they got Vrabel?
You're not following me. I don't have a problem with anyone who wants Bieniemy here because they think he'll be a good coach.

My issue is with people who want him here because they think he'll bring KC's offense here.

Believing he's a good coach & will be a good coach is what it should be about. Believing he'll bring KC's offense is about becoming KC South.

If you think he's a good HC candidate for reasons other than Travis Kelce, Tyreke Hill, & Pat Mahomes you shouldn't feel offended.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
You're not following me. I don't have a problem with anyone who wants Bieniemy here because they think he'll be a good coach.

My issue is with people who want him here because they think he'll bring KC's offense here.

Believing he's a good coach & will be a good coach is what it should be about. Believing he'll bring KC's offense is about becoming KC South.

If you think he's a good HC candidate for reasons other than Travis Kelce, Tyreke Hill, & Pat Mahomes you shouldn't feel offended.
I guess I don’t follow you then. If you’re a good coach but you don’t implement the schemes you’ve made work, then are you really a good coach?

If I understand you right, I don’t necessarily want a, for example, Bienemy here to install the KC offense, per se. I want him here to design something that fits the talent (Watson) he would have here. Lord knows we don’t need another guy forcing his system on players, damn what they’re good at. So in that sense I think I get you.

Just the prospect of having a real NFL offense here, whether it’s a KC or Baltimore version, or whatever, just get the talent in better positions to succeed.
 
You're not following me. I don't have a problem with anyone who wants Bieniemy here because they think he'll be a good coach.

My issue is with people who want him here because they think he'll bring KC's offense here.

Believing he's a good coach & will be a good coach is what it should be about. Believing he'll bring KC's offense is about becoming KC South.

If you think he's a good HC candidate for reasons other than Travis Kelce, Tyreke Hill, & Pat Mahomes you shouldn't feel offended.
This, this right here is whats wrong with not only many fans but with many GMs and owners as well. They see something that works and they think it can be replicated even though they are lacking several of the key pieces that make it work. No one will ever be able to repeat what NE has done unless they can hire Belichick and not only bring Brady over but de-age him by about 15 years. Likewise no one will be able to repeat what KC is doing unless they hire Reid and have him bring not just his staff but at least most of the team particularly Mahomes. Looking at what a protentional new HC has done with other players is a fine reason to bring them in for an interview but it should be what they plan to do with Watson in particular that is the reason you offer them a contract.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Looking at what a protentional new HC has done with other players is a fine reason to bring them in for an interview but it should be what they plan to do with Watson in particular that is the reason you offer them a contract.
Everybody has a plan. What evidence do we have they can implement that plan. That's what I'm getting at.

What part of KC's offense was installed by Bieniemy? How did he handle adversity; a gimpy Mahomes, no Tyreek, no Kelce, an injured OL. Those things are more important to me than KC's offensive prowess at full strength.

We've got real issues that KC doesn't. How does he plan to address those issues?
 

mws

Waterboy
The following is 100% my opinion.

O'Brien seemed to me to be afraid to hire anybody on the offensive side of the ball that could possibly outshine him or maybe just people that would question him or his offensive genius. The game against the Vikings really brought this home to me. Zimmer has enough confidence to hire 2 former HCs as his coordinators.

So whoever we get, retread or not, I hope they have enough guts or sense to surround themselves with the best people available.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Everybody has a plan. What evidence do we have they can implement that plan. That's what I'm getting at.

What part of KC's offense was installed by Bieniemy? How did he handle adversity; a gimpy Mahomes, no Tyreek, no Kelce, an injured OL. Those things are more important to me than KC's offensive prowess at full strength.

We've got real issues that KC doesn't. How does he plan to address those issues?
I guess that’s what interviews are for, yes?

Somebody is going to be head coach of this team. They’re going to come from some team, hopefully where there has been success, and they’re going to install their own schemes. Can Bienemy be successful? Who TF knows? You can pretty much say that with anybody though. You’re not going to know until they get here and do it.

I doubt SF had many worries bringing in Shanahan and the schemes he was bringing.

And for the record, I’m not on the Bienemy train per se. I’m just looking at candidates with some success under their belts and who I think could implement something here that can get the most out of Watson. Bienemy is one of those that fits that criteria.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Everybody has a plan. What evidence do we have they can implement that plan. That's what I'm getting at.

What part of KC's offense was installed by Bieniemy? How did he handle adversity; a gimpy Mahomes, no Tyreek, no Kelce, an injured OL. Those things are more important to me than KC's offensive prowess at full strength.

We've got real issues that KC doesn't. How does he plan to address those issues?
pretty simple really. That’s why Im leaning towards a retread. Those guys have already gone thru the whole copy cat a system thing and it didn’t work for them. I think too They’ve also gained an appreciation for understanding that outside of finding a qb, it’s the hiring of your assistants that you trust and know can do the job that matters the most.

Too many young and 1st time HC use their 1st gig to give their buddies a promotion to jobs they may not be ready for.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The following is 100% my opinion.

O'Brien seemed to me to be afraid to hire anybody on the offensive side of the ball that could possibly outshine him or maybe just people that would question him or his offensive genius. The game against the Vikings really brought this home to me. Zimmer has enough confidence to hire 2 former HCs as his coordinators.

So whoever we get, retread or not, I hope they have enough guts or sense to surround themselves with the best people available.
yeah but he didn’t start out like that..He committed the same mistake a lot of 1st time HC do which is promote young inexperienced guys to positions they weren’t quite ready for. Stefanski wasn’t ready for the OC position and it was only when Kubiak was brought in to help him as associate HC did he more into a HC candidate in 2019.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
If you're talking retreads then you have a body of work as "part" of the equation. However, during the interview I think you need to understand his philosophy, leadership style and vision. IMO, I don't think Cal nor Jack are able to comprehend any candidate's knowledge of X's and O's and how it will be deployed using the talent on hand and what assets will be needed. I would hope the GM would come first to assist with this along with a consultant (NFL experienced).
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You can pretty much say that with anybody though. You’re not going to know until they get here and do it.

I doubt SF had many worries bringing in Shanahan and the schemes he was bringing.
Baby Shanahan is a good example. He's got a good lineage. He's got a good resume. & he installed his system in Atlanta & was successful. Chances were pretty good he was going to be able to do the same somewhere else. Either as a HC or an OC.

O'Brien is a bad example. He's got no lineage. His resume was ok, not great. The only offense he installed was at Penn State & it was only ok. How many new players were introduced into New England's offense when he was their OC?

We're going to get a new coach from somewhere. Was he a part of the system, or was he the system? Shanahan was the system. O'Brien, was a cog in the wheel.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The following is 100% my opinion.

O'Brien seemed to me to be afraid to hire anybody on the offensive side of the ball that could possibly outshine him or maybe just people that would question him or his offensive genius. The game against the Vikings really brought this home to me. Zimmer has enough confidence to hire 2 former HCs as his coordinators.

So whoever we get, retread or not, I hope they have enough guts or sense to surround themselves with the best people available.
The Texans have never really had an above avg OC/DC at the same time.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Baby Shanahan is a good example. He's got a good lineage. He's got a good resume. & he installed his system in Atlanta & was successful. Chances were pretty good he was going to be able to do the same somewhere else. Either as a HC or an OC.

O'Brien is a bad example. He's got no lineage. His resume was ok, not great. The only offense he installed was at Penn State & it was only ok. How many new players were introduced into New England's offense when he was their OC?

We're going to get a new coach from somewhere. Was he a part of the system, or was he the system? Shanahan was the system. O'Brien, was a cog in the wheel.
I don’t disagree about OB. Dude had accomplished nothing as far as I could tell. And I don’t consider him just being on the Patriots staff as being a success.

Honestly, I don’t know much about Bienemy other than he was under Bevell in Minnesota where they went from 6 wins to double digit wins 2 years in a row, with a top 10 offense for at least 2 years. And of course Bevell went on to have a top 5 offense 5 of the 8 years he was with Seattle.

So Bienemy has learned under Bevell and now Reid, two well put together offenses. That’s a whole lot better resume than what OB had piggybacking Belichick.

And as for retreads, well, they’re retreads for a reason. Sure there’s plenty of examples of coaches going elsewhere and succeeding, Belichick for example, and even Reid to a certain extent, but I don’t see how that’s any less risky than an up and comer. Again, provided there’s some semblance of some meat on the resume, unlike OB didn’t have.
 
Baby Shanahan is a good example. He's got a good lineage. He's got a good resume. & he installed his system in Atlanta & was successful. Chances were pretty good he was going to be able to do the same somewhere else. Either as a HC or an OC.

O'Brien is a bad example. He's got no lineage. His resume was ok, not great. The only offense he installed was at Penn State & it was only ok. How many new players were introduced into New England's offense when he was their OC?

We're going to get a new coach from somewhere. Was he a part of the system, or was he the system? Shanahan was the system. O'Brien, was a cog in the wheel.
Are you forgetting how much Shanahan stunk up the place in Washington? He was so bad everyone said he only got the job because his dad was HC and you could make the argument his offense got both him and his dad fired. Also if you think OB's offense at Penn state was just "ok" then you clearly are ignoring, or don't know, all the circumstances that were going on at Penn state at that time. For what he had to work with what he did at Penn state was a miracle. Give the devil his due when the Texans hired OB he was considered one of the hottest prospects for HC and all the experts were saying it was a great move.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
The Texans need to get the GM and his staff put together first and foremost. GM has to be able to name his HC so there's a chain of command established out of the gate. We all know the GM would more than likely hire someone he's admired or worked with in the past which should get he working relationship off on the right foot. The Texans have never really executed this in the right manner.....except for the massive blunder out of the gate when they hired Casserly and he hired Capers. Hope they hire Eliot Wolf and let him load the FO with solid talent evaluators.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Are you forgetting how much Shanahan stunk up the place in Washington?
I didn't post his whole resume. But yes, from Houston (OC) to Washington (OC) to Cleveland (OC) to Atlanta (OC) is a good resume. We can see where he learned from his mistakes.

Also if you think OB's offense at Penn state was just "ok" then you clearly are ignoring, or don't know, all the circumstances that were going on at Penn state at that time.
Or... I'm saying the offense was ok. What the team accomplished, yes he deserves much respect for that.
when the Texans hired OB he was considered one of the hottest prospects for HC and all the experts were saying it was a great move.
Look, I'm sorry things didn't work out for O'Brien. I didn't understand why he was the hot prospect & I'm not blaming the Texans for hiring him. I'm just saying there are things I'd like to see in a body of work that I did not see in BO'b. There are things I didn't like about Shanahan too. But that's not what this is about.

I'm not against Bieniemy. My comments in this thread started about those who want Bieniemy here, simply because KC has a heck of an offense.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The Texans need to get the GM and his staff put together first and foremost. GM has to be able to name his HC so there's a chain of command established out of the gate. We all know the GM would more than likely hire someone he's admired or worked with in the past which should get he working relationship off on the right foot. The Texans have never really executed this in the right manner.....except for the massive blunder out of the gate when they hired Casserly and he hired Capers. Hope they hire Eliot Wolf and let him load the FO with solid talent evaluators.
Then you have the dynamic in which the GM won’t fire the HC b/c that’s “his” guy or “his” boy. So to me, the order in which the hires happen is irrelevant imo. The only thing that matters is if they can work together well enough to execute a shared vision for success for this franchise.....and do it in a reasonable time frame Because truthfully that’s what we’ve never ever had.

Casserly and Capers worked well together, they were just in a tough situation with an expansion franchise.

Smith and Kubiak worked well together...just took forever for them to get something done due to numerous factors.

BoB & Smith/Gaine - BoB didn’t get along with anyone.

So I’m all in for 2 guys who have experience in both roles and can work well together.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Then you have the dynamic in which the GM won’t fire the HC b/c that’s “his” guy or “his” boy. So to me, the order in which the hires happen is irrelevant imo. The only thing that matters is if they can work together well enough to execute a shared vision for success for this franchise.....and do it in a reasonable time frame Because truthfully that’s what we’ve never ever had.

Casserly and Capers worked well together, they were just in a tough situation with an expansion franchise.

Smith and Kubiak worked well together...just took forever for them to get something done due to numerous factors.

BoB & Smith/Gaine - BoB didn’t get along with anyone.

So I’m all in for 2 guys who have experience in both roles and can work well together.
I'm good with this approach as well. I suspect the GM may be an easier position to fill at this time.

As for HC....it could take a little longer. I like Bieniemy as much as the next person in line but my concern is a young HC prospect who's never been a HC filling out his coaching staff with qualified coordinators and position coaches. How many coaches do you think Reid would allow him to pilfer from his staff? That would push him to finding coaches outside of his circle. It could take him 2-3 seasons to finally have a staff he's completely comfortable with.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
I'm good with this approach as well. I suspect the GM may be an easier position to fill at this time.

As for HC....it could take a little longer. I like Bieniemy as much as the next person in line but my concern is a young HC prospect who's never been a HC filling out his coaching staff with qualified coordinators and position coaches. How many coaches do you think Reid would allow him to pilfer from his staff? That would push him to finding coaches outside of his circle. It could take him 2-3 seasons to finally have a staff he's completely comfortable with.
That’s absolutely a legit concern. But that’s going to be the case for anybody. They’re likely going to want to pilfer coaches from wherever they’re coming from. Probably an advantage to a retread who has done it before, but you don’t find the next Tomlin, or McVay or whoever, like that.

My main concern is getting somebody that can build something around Watson. He’s about the only cornerstone this franchise has to build on. And with the money he just got paid, that is top priority IMO. I’m not opposed to a defensive minded guy, but it could take awhile to turn that unit around, wasting more of Watson’s clock. You’ve got to get Watson and this offense going, which I think can be done a whole lot quicker than turning the defense around.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I prefer strong HC who runs roster, collects input from his coordinators and takes info to GM on types of players they prefer. GM works with scouting department for draft and UDFA as well as players that become available 2-3 years in their careers. GM works closely with HC on Free Agency and cap but GM makes final decision that area.
Coordinators should call plays.

Borgonzi and Bieniemy would meet that and have history together in winning team approach but I want strong, solid OC & DC. The problem is finding those in NFL who would take a lateral move to come to Houston.
A former HC with great history as defensive and one with same on other side of ball similar to a Kubiak, Wade Phillips or RAC for coordinating worth look but none stand out to me.

I believe college may be where we go for that.
 
I didn't post his whole resume. But yes, from Houston (OC) to Washington (OC) to Cleveland (OC) to Atlanta (OC) is a good resume. We can see where he learned from his mistakes.
I agree he learned from his mistakes but some people, not saying you TK, talk about Kyle Shanahan as though everything he has touched turned golden. It didn't, his offense didn't really start to shine until Atlanta. In SF he had a good year last year but lets not underestimate the defense on that team as well.

Or... I'm saying the offense was ok. What the team accomplished, yes he deserves much respect for that.
Fair enough.

Look, I'm sorry things didn't work out for your cousin. I didn't understand why he was the hot prospect & I'm not blaming the Texans for hiring him. I'm just saying there are things I'd like to see in a body of work that I did not see in BO'b. There are things I didn't like about Shanahan too. But that's not what this is about.
I am so sick and tired of this narrative and its a big reason I stopped coming to this board until after OB was fired.

I'm not against Bieniemy. My comments in this thread started about those who want Bieniemy here, simply because KC has a heck of an offense.
To get back to the point I'm not against him either but I think to many are underestimating how much control Reid has over the offense and how big a factor Mahomes is in making that offense work. Could Watson make something similar work? Maybe he could but it would have to be just similar at best and not the exact same as KC because we're not KC. So in that regard I agree with you 100%. Lets not forget that it wasn't working that great in Kc prior to Mahomes even though Alex Smith, while not elite, was a better than average QB.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
To get back to the point I'm not against him either but I think to many are underestimating how much control Reid has over the offense and how big a factor Mahomes is in making that offense work.
That's exactly what I'm saying may be the case.

I don't know. I haven't looked into myself. But you've got Andy Reid on one side of him & Mahomes on the other. If he is a good coach I'd like to hear the evidence outside of Reid & Mahomes.

I apologize for the cousin thing.
 


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