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Redskins Getting Questioned Again.....

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Redskins name is reaching new levels of being offensive. Some folks are demanding a name change. In this real flakey time where everything printed could be considered racist if looking through the proper lenses.....maybe it's time for Snyder to change the name.

Washington Warriors could work since they already have a helmet in their history that could serve the purpose.8BF6A369-7829-468B-A9C3-156D85D59DAB-800-0000008F2F9E963E.jpeg
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
It'd pretty dang cool but their maroon color would be lost. The maroon would have to be replaced by red to fit the new name. The yellow/gold could stay since it represents the planes signature stripe on the wing. I'm not sure Snyder is ready for a wholesale change.

The Warriors would make it a simple change while honoring the spirit of all Native American Indians.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
It'd pretty dang cool but their maroon color would be lost. The maroon would have to be replaced by red to fit the new name. The yellow/gold could stay since it represents the planes signature stripe on the wing. I'm not sure Snyder is ready for a wholesale change.

The Warriors would make it a simple change while honoring the spirit of all Native American Indians.
I think you are over reaching on the color

Why would Warriors be any better than Redskins?
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
I think the Texans should change their name as well. After all, Texas was a foreign country once, and we can't have that, it's unpatriotic. How would you feel about the Houston Turkeys, or the Houston Chads? Or the Dallas Canadians? And all team colors must be red, white and blue with matching socks.
 

ShinobiMusashi

Waterboy
I figured it was coming. It's pretty wild how racist original owner George Preston Marshall really was, he was the last NFL owner to allow black players to play for his team and it was only after all other league owners pretty much forced him to. Something the NFL has always been great at covering up was their color line that kept black players out of the league for a long time, to me it damages the legacy of greats like Don Hutson and Steve Van Buren etc. to think they never played against black players in that era.

Lol at Redtails :lol: is that for real option? Get the **** outta here :golfswing:

I've always been in love with the Redskins logo and colors/uniforms, especially the white uni's they wore in Super Bowl XXVI. I never liked their darker alternate unis with the arrow helmet or any of the color changes with the yellow pants etc.

If it were up to me I'd keep the uni's the same and just call them The Hogs.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Just more of the same mental illness of cancel culture going on.

What the Redskins should do is announce a huge change coming and then reveal a brand new logo with an updated Native American warrior or on it. Troll them by making them think a new name is coming and give them a new logo instead. Maybe something with a good Commanchee Warrior.

Redskins is one of the best names in the NFL. It isn't offensive to Native Americans either. They've bever been the ones making a big case over this. Just white liberals who want to show how offended they can get over different topics. They will actually hurt some of the Native American fans by doing this. Many of them love the name.
 

ShinobiMusashi

Waterboy
Just more of the same mental illness of cancel culture going on.

What the Redskins should do is announce a huge change coming and then reveal a brand new logo with an updated Native American warrior or on it. Troll them by making them think a new name is coming and give them a new logo instead. Maybe something with a good Commanchee Warrior.

Redskins is one of the best names in the NFL. It isn't offensive to Native Americans either. They've bever been the ones making a big case over this. Just white liberals who want to show how offended they can get over different topics. They will actually hurt some of the Native American fans by doing this. Many of them love the name.
I got into a pretty heated argument about it with a native american a few years ago, he kinda changed my mind a little on it. There was a time when calling a native american a redskin was the equivalent context of calling an African American a n*gger. To me i guess it's all about context, me and my little brother were working on an old black lady's apartment a while back and she was talking on the phone, I heard her tell somebody that there was just a couple of white boys there working on her apartment, the way she said it was in a racist context, it kinda pissed me off but I let it go because she was old. In the right context anything can be racist I guess, my argument was that the Redskins were presenting their mascot as something honorable, there is nothing racist about that logo. Its not like the Cleveland Indians logo cartoon character.

At the end of the day i came away from the argument with the belief that there are a lot of native americans that just see NFL as a white man's game that they don't want their likeness associated with in any context.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
Keep the logo and the name. Changing it only empowers those that want to be hurt by everything. 9 times out of 10, the folks making noise and lost in their feelings don't even belong to the group with that particular skin color, they simply see a topic that allows them to act a fool in public and garner attention to themselves.

Next thing you know Speedy Gonzales, Slowpoke Rodriguez and the Taco Bell Chihuahua will be removed because they are racist.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I figured it was coming. It's pretty wild how racist original owner George Preston Marshall really was, he was the last NFL owner to allow black players to play for his team and it was only after all other league owners pretty much forced him to. Something the NFL has always been great at covering up was their color line that kept black players out of the league for a long time, to me it damages the legacy of greats like Don Hutson and Steve Van Buren etc. to think they never played against black players in that era.

Lol at Redtails :lol: is that for real option? Get the **** outta here :golfswing:

I've always been in love with the Redskins logo and colors/uniforms, especially the white uni's they wore in Super Bowl XXVI. I never liked their darker alternate unis with the arrow helmet or any of the color changes with the yellow pants etc.

If it were up to me I'd keep the uni's the same and just call them The Hogs.
I agree and that's something I use to argue about with InfantryCak, a big Cowboys fan, when I questioned the alleged greatest of some of those famous white Cowboys players from way back in the 20th century who didn't have to face the kind comp that the current day players do on a weekly basis in todays black-dominated NFL.
I dunno wonder how Infantrycak is doing these days, I miss that guy ?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I agree and that's something I use to argue about with InfantryCak, a big Cowboys fan, when I questioned the alleged greatest of some of those famous white Cowboys players from way back in the 20th century who didn't have to face the kind comp that the current day players do on a weekly basis in todays black-dominated NFL.
I dunno wonder how Infantrycak is doing these days, I miss that guy ?
Why would you miss that amount of arrogance? Calling posters racist/drunks/and any other demeaning term he could think of. Basically using this MB as guinea pigs to attempt to sharpen his lawyer skills


Good riddance.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I'm not even paying attention to the PC world the NFL has turned into under God'ell's leadership. I'm ready for head knocking to begin.

This yr my football watching habits are going to consist of alot more college football. That's if there's football at all. The Chinese are evil.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I'm not offended by it, but I'm also aware that the name has had racist origins since the beginning of the term.

We had a deep forum debate on this years ago and I researched the term "redskin", and it was ALWAYS a derogatory term. It was NEVER a word used to "honor" Native Americans or whatever other bullcrap spin folks want to smoke screen the truth with.

People have just acclimated to the word, grown fond of it because of football, and it has been normalized.

But none of that changes the truth of history.

Cancel culture has certainly gotten ridiculous recently. But, sometimes they stumble on to something that actually has merit.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
I guess the LA (x2) Wetbacks would go over like a lead balloon. I'm Mexican-American and the name would be determined derogatory in my book. Now, if you wanted to call them the San Diego Hard Workers....I don't think it would come across as derogatory.

If Washington were to change the team name to Warriors....it could be more acceptable and just as profitable as the Redskins name. The spear helmet was always one of my top five logos. Snyder would make a bundle with the new look and name.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Why would you miss that amount of arrogance? Calling posters racist/drunks/and any other demeaning term he could think of. Basically using this MB as guinea pigs to attempt to sharpen his lawyer skills


Good riddance.
I will just have to disagree with you about Infantrycak because I thought he made a valuable contribution in these parts with often sharp and insightful comments. I found him entertaining and yea he probably did ruffle some feathers now and then, but that often happens on MBs.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I will just have to disagree with you about Infantrycak because I thought he made a valuable contribution in these parts with often sharp and insightful comments. I found him entertaining and yea he probably did ruffle some feathers now and then, but that often happens on MBs.
And poof, he's gone.
 

ShinobiMusashi

Waterboy
I agree and that's something I use to argue about with InfantryCak, a big Cowboys fan, when I questioned the alleged greatest of some of those famous white Cowboys players from way back in the 20th century who didn't have to face the kind comp that the current day players do on a weekly basis in todays black-dominated NFL.
I dunno wonder how Infantrycak is doing these days, I miss that guy ?
idk man the Cowboys didn’t exist until 1960? There were blacks in the NFL by then even though it was widely believed that blacks couldn’t play quarterback or linebacker because intelligence. In the AFL it was different they recruited from historically black colleges that NFL wouldn’t but it was out of necessity. But still players in the 60’s NFL were legit, plenty of great African players in the league back then.

I’m talking more about the color line that kept blacks out of the NFL entirely from sometime in the 30’s until late 40’s or so. Don Hutson has the craziest receiving numbers from that era and some say he’s the best to ever play the position, he was the most dominant player from that era but he never played against a black corner or safety in his entire career.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
I’m talking more about the color line that kept blacks out of the NFL entirely from sometime in the 30’s until late 40’s or so. Don Hutson has the craziest receiving numbers from that era and some say he’s the best to ever play the position, he was the most dominant player from that era but he never played against a black corner or safety in his entire career.
Same with Babe Ruth. There should be asterisks next to the Babe’s numbers, as well as those that played in his era.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
idk man the Cowboys didn’t exist until 1960? There were blacks in the NFL by then even though it was widely believed that blacks couldn’t play quarterback or linebacker because intelligence. In the AFL it was different they recruited from historically black colleges that NFL wouldn’t but it was out of necessity. But still players in the 60’s NFL were legit, plenty of great African players in the league back then.

I’m talking more about the color line that kept blacks out of the NFL entirely from sometime in the 30’s until late 40’s or so. Don Hutson has the craziest receiving numbers from that era and some say he’s the best to ever play the position, he was the most dominant player from that era but he never played against a black corner or safety in his entire career.
My point is that many white players of the previous century who routinely made the NFL all-pro team would today probably struggle mightily to make the 53-man roster of most NFL teams.
 

gwallaia

Moderator
Staff member
When all this re-naming of the Redskins came up Again, I was initially intrigued by the name of the Red Tails honoring the Tuskegee Airmen. But, the name Red Tails for a football team would play right into the headlines. Red Tails get their tails whipped by the Texans. or Red Tails tuck their tails and run with another early playoff exit.

Surely the name Hogs will not offend anyone. I just don't know what they would call the cheerleaders though.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
When all this re-naming of the Redskins came up Again, I was initially intrigued by the name of the Red Tails honoring the Tuskegee Airmen. But, the name Red Tails for a football team would play right into the headlines. Red Tails get their tails whipped by the Texans. or Red Tails tuck their tails and run with another early playoff exit.

Surely the name Hogs will not offend anyone. I just don't know what they would call the cheerleaders though.
Red Tails ? SMH

The Hogettes of course
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
I don't understand what's so wrong with Redtails.. it's a dignified name of a unit honorably significant in the 2nd world war effort.

For a sport as attached to war metaphors as this one in an area as central to the country's military actions as this as well.. idk, it's straight.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I don't understand what's so wrong with Redtails.. it's a dignified name of a unit honorably significant in the 2nd world war effort.

For a sport as attached to war metaphors as this one in an area as central to the country's military actions as this as well.. idk, it's straight.
Its lame and extremely predictable.

Wasn't the whole idea to take race put of these team names? Talk about total hypocrisy.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Its lame and extremely predictable.

Wasn't the whole idea to take race put of these team names? Talk about total hypocrisy.
Certainly your prerogative to feel that way. I think it's a bunch of courageous men that served this country proudly.

And I think the idea is to take names out that people feel are mocking or derogatory. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that no one feels as such about the Tuskegee airmen and the nickname Redtails.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Certainly your prerogative to feel that way. I think it's a bunch of courageous men that served this country proudly.

And I think the idea is to take names out that people feel are mocking or derogatory. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that no one feels as such about the Tuskegee airmen and the nickname Redtails.
The feels like culture has taken hold.

Sad days, and we have nobody to blame but ourselves for letting liberalism invade academia.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
Its lame and extremely predictable.

Wasn't the whole idea to take race put of these team names? Talk about total hypocrisy.
Agree. If the name has to be changed, take race out of it completely. Hogs is fine. Warriors is fine. Washington Chumps is fine as well. Lets just leave race out of it already.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Agree. If the name has to be changed, take race out of it completely. Hogs is fine. Warriors is fine. Washington Chumps is fine as well. Lets just leave race out of it already.
How about the Washington Antifa's

That shouldn't hurt the Libs feelings. Afterall this is all about their feelings.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I dig the Washington Pigskins, for a variety of reasons. Obviously, the football itself has always been called a pigskin. Their famous offensive line were called the Hogs, and now fans are The Hogettes.

And then there is Washington, D.C. itself. . .so full of freakin' pork.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Certainly your prerogative to feel that way. I think it's a bunch of courageous men that served this country proudly.
Right, but the crowd of the NFL that wants to kneel isn't about that remember? We tried to remind people of what the National Anthem represented to our country, our military, and our history and we were told that it was "racist" to feel that way for our country. The players that have made social justice a big part of their NFL skill set have made it clear that military history is not part of their agenda or place of importance.

When are people going to show us the crowds of Native Americans that can't go to sleep at night over this name?

And why do we keep changing these like business names and historical team franchises all because "white progressives" are offended for some other group that "never asked for their interference" in the first place?

Don't you think those are at least reasonable questions to ask?
 
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Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Why would you miss that amount of arrogance? Calling posters racist/drunks/and any other demeaning term he could think of. Basically using this MB as guinea pigs to attempt to sharpen his lawyer skills
That is the only style of moderating some have wanted in here as long as it came from someone that they enjoyed sucking up to who advertised their messages.

Mobbing up on someone with insults is easy, especially when you have a Mod/Cop to use corruption of communication. Debating is what's hard for many in here. Many are so used to following media and letting it form their thoughts and opinions without using context clues and details to form a thesis or a conclusion so when they have to work in a conversation, many will melt pretty fast.
 

ShinobiMusashi

Waterboy
Why? It’s not Ruth’s fault the player pool was limited.
And baseball is different, there is no real physical contact and you don't have to outrun anyone man to man. I can't imagine segregation would have changed Babe's hitting stats much? Like were black pitchers that much better than white ones back then? To the point where it would have totally altered Babe's stats? With Don Hutson it's very different, he put up these completely ridiculous numbers and led the NFL every year but when he shows up on an All Time team or countdown it's never brought up that he never played against a black cornerback or safety in his whole career. Again, it's not Hutson's fault but I find it odd that it's just something you never hear brought up anywhere.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
And baseball is different, there is no real physical contact and you don't have to outrun anyone man to man. I can't imagine segregation would have changed Babe's hitting stats much? Like were black pitchers that much better than white ones back then? To the point where it would have totally altered Babe's stats? With Don Hutson it's very different, he put up these completely ridiculous numbers and led the NFL every year but when he shows up on an All Time team or countdown it's never brought up that he never played against a black cornerback or safety in his whole career. Again, it's not Hutson's fault but I find it odd that it's just something you never hear brought up anywhere.
I would also add Jim Brown to that part of the conversation. I'm on the minority of this, but I don't hold him near as high on the RB list as others do based on the guys he played against in the league that he did. When you look at the white guys he mainly ran against, I can only imagine what a guy like Beast Mode or Tony Dorsett could have done against those guys.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Not about fault. Just the fact that he competed in a diluted talent pool and the statistics are tainted.
I agree with this. Ruth deserves what he got from baseball not because who he played against but the fact that all those players from his era played those same players yet few to none duplicated Ruth's impact. I think, when comparing players and what they might do in another era....I'd be hard pressed to go beyond a 20 year window.
 
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Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
I can't imagine segregation would have changed Babe's hitting stats much? Like were black pitchers that much better than white ones back then?
Non-whites make up a little more than 1/3 of the MLB talent pool. If you remove the bottom third of the white pitchers and replace them with superior pitchers, the pitching improves and the hitting declines. Babe Ruth is still great. But, he is playing against better players overall.

Just keep stats for the segregated vs non-segregated eras separate. I mean the game was segragated, why not have the stats reflect that?
 

ShinobiMusashi

Waterboy
I would also add Jim Brown to that part of the conversation. I'm on the minority of this, but I don't hold him near as high on the RB list as others do based on the guys he played against in the league that he did. When you look at the white guys he mainly ran against, I can only imagine what a guy like Beast Mode or Tony Dorsett could have done against those guys.
I don't know man that's an interesting take, you have a point for sure, when watching Brown's highlights you see a bunch of complete j-brones getting run over, dudes that just wouldn't belong on a pro football field. But he played against some pretty tough defenses though playing from 1957 to 1965, he played the Giants twice a year that was one hell of a squad in the late 50's. He ran over a pretty tough Colts defense in the 64 NFL Championship. I was curious and checked to see that he actually never played the 62 Packers or 63 Bears, two of the best defensive units from that era.

I actually have put some thought into what era would have been the absolute toughest to play offense and I came to the conclusion that you could actually narrow it down to a single year, 1993. I've become obsessed with this season to the point where I'm actually thinking about writing a book about it. It was a complete anomaly because in the 80's you had this explosion of innovative offense, the west coast offense, the run n' shoot fad, all the rules changes in 1978 and the effect it had on this explosion of 1,000 yard receivers every year and Dickerson and Marino rewriting record books. But then you get to 1993 and it was like the league took a time machine back to 1973, defense completely ******* dominated the league that year across the board. It was one of the lowest scoring seasons in the modern era, over half the league allowed less than 300 points(and it was the fewest amount of teams to score over 350 on offense in the 16 game era).

When you factor in how physically brutal the rules allowed for the NFL to be that season, the talent on the field on defense around the league, you could make a case that the players who were great in 1993 were truly the best of the best in NFL history. They had the deck stacked against quarterbacks, receivers, and running backs that season like no other season in NFL history so the ones who managed to put up any kind of numbers that year truly were great.

For me on quality of competition I'd have to go further back before Jim Brown and put that on the original Cleveland Browns team and some of those players that were inducted into the NFL Hall Of Fame even though they only played 4-5 years in the NFL, when they are factoring in the Browns' AAFC run from 1946 to 1949 when Browns were like the Harlem Globetrotters of that league that didn't even have a college draft, they truly were running over j-brones in the AAFC. In that league you had the Browns and then you had a bunch of guys that couldn't make an NFL team back then.
 
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Boris

Veteran
bummer


According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, Washington is planning to have no Native American imagery, per a league source. This is probably one of the most obvious developments -- since the team name is considered an offensive slur. Either way, Washington will be moving away from anything even relating to Native Americans, whether it be weapons or headdresses/feathers.
 


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