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Ray Rice arrested in Atlantic City

houstonspartan said:
Why all the outrage? Maybe because...um, I don't know, he punched a woman in her face and almost killed her. And we all saw it?

I didn't know Jim Brown did all of those things. Thanks for the information. No one is excusing him. But, the fact is, in this day and age with cameras everywhere, seeing video of something creates a deep impact with most of us.

Also, I know some Browns fans, and they've been kind of done with him for years.
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For the record I think he should have at the least an 8 game suspension to possibly a year, but I think it is his first offense. I'm not here in this thread to dispute that he did something horrible to be upset about.

I'm questioning the fact that we've known about this for 8 months and why is this an 8 to 9 page thread now? Why is this a surprise when everyone knew what happened a long time ago? You knew he knocked her out.

He was already punished for it for two games? Sure, the punishment was soft, but all of a sudden the NFL should get away with "DOUBLE JEOPARDY" tactics towards the athletes, because they're being bullied by TMZ and ESPN? Ray Rice was already punished and if they had such a problem with what he did (Which they really didn't) then they should have waited until they saw the video to make a ruling. But we all know they saw that video a long time ago. But the outrage towards the NFL is ignorant to me, because the NFL has dozens of guys like Rice and much worse. Again, Brown has been an NFL hero and a legend that is paid to show up at events and to mentor young players. Lol! So how in the hell is Ray Rice's incident such a big deal in the grand scheme of things? The NFL loves guys like this as long as the media isn't shooting their mouths off 24/7 about them which in this case they are.
 
Roethlisberger raped two women, not so much as a suspension from OTA's.

Riley Cooper? Nothin...

Marty Mcsorley almost killed a guy in the field of play, on purpose...

No jail time for him, no permanent banishment from the league.

Richard Sherman... Thug?

Justin Bieber... "Rambunctious young man," but absolutely not a "thug," no matter how many crimes he commits.

Sam Montgomery goes to jail for driving a car above his "place."

Patterns are cyclical, which is why they often repeat.
 
Marshall said:
It would seem so. But this case has more parole evidence than most. You can't lump this into the normal category where witness testimony is critical.
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I'm sorry, I brought in other pictures & I'm sure that led some to believe I was broadening the scope of this thread. I'm talking about this case in particular.
 
Marshall said:
It would seem so. But this case has more parole evidence than most. You can't lump this into the normal category where witness testimony is critical.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you're going for here but parol evidence doesn't have any application in this instance.
 
DexmanC said:
Roethlisberger raped two women, not so much as a suspension from OTA's.

Riley Cooper? Nothin...

Marty Mcsorley almost killed a guy in the field of play, on purpose...

No jail time for him, no permanent banishment from the league.

Richard Sherman... Thug?

Justin Bieber... "Rambunctious young man," but absolutely not a "thug," no matter how many crimes he commits.

Sam Montgomery goes to jail for driving a car above his "place."

Patterns are cyclical, which is why they often repeat.
Click to expand...

I think it's a race thing.
 
DexmanC said:
Roethlisberger raped two women, not so much as a suspension from OTA's.

Riley Cooper? Nothin...

Marty Mcsorley almost killed a guy in the field of play, on purpose...

No jail time for him, no permanent banishment from the league.

Richard Sherman... Thug?

Justin Bieber... "Rambunctious young man," but absolutely not a "thug," no matter how many crimes he commits.

Sam Montgomery goes to jail for driving a car above his "place."

Patterns are cyclical, which is why they often repeat.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to understand this weird list. What does any if it have to do with this subject? If your goal was to inject race, maybe it needs to be said. WHO GIVES A ****? White, black, yellow, red, polka dots most don't care here. You clock a woman and knock her out cold, stand over her like an animal pondering, then drag her out like she's a piece of dead meat, I, and most sane humans, have a problem with that.

So what is the pattern? SMH
 
DexmanC said:
Roethlisberger raped two women, not so much as a suspension from OTA's. ....
Click to expand...

...In December, all of the parties in the suit signed stipulations to dismiss the case.... However, Roethlisberger was suspended for six games for violating the NFL's personal conduct policy. After convincing the NFL commissioner that he had turned his life around, Roethlisberger was allowed back two games early.
Click to expand...

USA today

You can race google the rest of your claims.
 
DexmanC said:
Roethlisberger raped two women, not so much as a suspension from OTA's.

Riley Cooper? Nothin...

Marty Mcsorley almost killed a guy in the field of play, on purpose...

No jail time for him, no permanent banishment from the league.

Richard Sherman... Thug?

Justin Bieber... "Rambunctious young man," but absolutely not a "thug," no matter how many crimes he commits.

Sam Montgomery goes to jail for driving a car above his "place."

Patterns are cyclical, which is why they often repeat.
Click to expand...

Roger Goodell should be fired for not giving Justin Bieber a lifetime ban from breathing oxygen.

Speaking of cycles, Janay Rice should expect another beatdown someday when she flaps her gums too much at her abusive husband. Of course, she loooooooooves him, so it doesn't really matter to the rest of us.
 
Jim Brown, OJ, Ray Lewis, Michael Vick, Terrel Suggs, pretty much anybody with a successful sports career will get leeway up the wazoo. Because everybody loves a winner! By the time JJ Watt career is over we probably still love the guy if he punch a nun and pushed mother Teresa off a cliff.
 
DexmanC said:
Roethlisberger raped two women, not so much as a suspension from OTA's.

Riley Cooper? Nothin...

Marty Mcsorley almost killed a guy in the field of play, on purpose...

No jail time for him, no permanent banishment from the league.

Richard Sherman... Thug?

Justin Bieber... "Rambunctious young man," but absolutely not a "thug," no matter how many crimes he commits.

Sam Montgomery goes to jail for driving a car above his "place."

Patterns are cyclical, which is why they often repeat.
Click to expand...

In also completely unrelated racist banter ... cocaine was given controlled substance status over caffeine only because black men were using the drug and raping white women in the south ... discuss.
 
Double Barrel said:
Roger Goodell should be fired for not giving Justin Bieber a lifetime ban from breathing oxygen.

Speaking of cycles, Janay Rice should expect another beatdown someday when she flaps her gums too much at her abusive husband. Of course, she loooooooooves him, so it doesn't really matter to the rest of us.
Click to expand...

That's 1 thing i don't really like though...people are just dismissing Janay Rice's actions and words with "oh, she's got battered woman's syndrome, she can't possibly feel that way....she's just scared of this...or that.."

Its possible that this was an isolated "i lost my cool" moment with Rice and his wife..which might at least in part be why she's so adamantly standing behind him right now...

What she reportedly said after she awoke, his reputation around the NFL up to that point all seem to point in that direction.

It's rare compared to what usually happens, but sometimes these kind of abnormal things happen and couples can move past it and be happy with one another again after counseling and stuff.

I believe Max Kellerman got suspended by ESPN b/c he commented on his own domestic dispute situation he had with his now wife and how they moved past it some 20 years ago. In my own life I can also say the same thing happened with my parents...
 
Mr teX said:
That's 1 thing i don't really like though...people are just dismissing Janay Rice's actions and words with "oh, she's got battered woman's syndrome, she can't possibly feel that way....she's just scared of this...or that.."

Its possible that this was an isolated "i lost my cool" moment with Rice and his wife..which might at least in part be why she's so adamantly standing behind him right now...
Click to expand...

sometimes, when pushed enough, people can just snap

-Falling-Down.jpg
 
Mr teX said:
That's 1 thing i don't really like though...people are just dismissing Janay Rice's actions and words with "oh, she's got battered woman's syndrome, she can't possibly feel that way....she's just scared of this...or that.."

Its possible that this was an isolated "i lost my cool" moment with Rice and his wife..which might at least in part be why she's so adamantly standing behind him right now...

What she reportedly said after she awoke, his reputation around the NFL up to that point all seem to point in that direction.

It's rare compared to what usually happens, but sometimes these kind of abnormal things happen and couples can move past it and be happy with one another again after counseling and stuff.

I believe Max Kellerman got suspended by ESPN b/c he commented on his own domestic dispute situation he had with his now wife and how they moved past it some 20 years ago. In my own life I can also say the same thing happened with my parents...
Click to expand...

Man, if that's the first time he had hit her, what a way to start!

I personally think when the ability to cross that line is in a man, it takes more than apologies, community service, and a little counseling to change him.

That kind of behavior and disrespect strikes at a deep character flaw in a man. It doesn't just happen. A dude either had it in him or doesn't, and in my life experiences, tigers cannot changer their stripes. How does a woman truly ever trust a man when he's punched her?

Short of putting my kids in danger, there is NOTHING my wife could ever do that would cause me to do such a thing. And even if my kids were in danger, I'd find some other way to subdue her before cold-cocking her with a left hook. The fact that I have to even go to such a far fetched scenario as my wife putting our kids in danger speaks to how far out there this behavior is from my own mindset.

Like you said, though, in rare cases people can change. It remains to be seen what kind of man Ray Rice is at the end of the day. Hopefully for his wife and his family, he is the exception to the rule.
 
Double Barrel said:
Man, if that's the first time he had hit her, what a way to start!

I personally think when the ability to cross that line is in a man, it takes more than apologies, community service, and a little counseling to change him.

That kind of behavior and disrespect strikes at a deep character flaw in a man. It doesn't just happen. A dude either had it in him or doesn't, and in my life experiences, tigers cannot changer their stripes. How does a woman truly ever trust a man when he's punched her?

Short of putting my kids in danger, there is NOTHING my wife could ever do that would cause me to do such a thing. And even if my kids were in danger, I'd find some other way to subdue her before cold-cocking her with a left hook. The fact that I have to even go to such a far fetched scenario as my wife putting our kids in danger speaks to how far out there this behavior is from my own mindset.

Like you said, though, in rare cases people can change. It remains to be seen what kind of man Ray Rice is at the end of the day. Hopefully for his wife and his family, he is the exception to the rule.
Click to expand...

I hear ya DB, & i agree about the rehab after you've crossed a line like this.... but when alcohol's involved...all inhibitions go out the window. In this case, clearly it was involved.

I also know that noone in my life has made me more mad than my wife has...we've been together for nearly 15 years...she knows how to push my buttons and get me riled up. Janay and Ray have been together since high school so you know they know how to get under each others skin. Emotions, alcohol and bad judgement....doesn't take much for someone to make a mistake like this.

But most women who've been hit before aren't trying to be within arms reach of the man beating on them in those kinds of tense disputes b/c they know what could happen. She just ran up on him in the elevator talking smack like it was nothing...She obviously wasn't afraid of being hit and didn't see it coming at all...
 
DexmanC said:
Here is an interesting take on the Ray Rice situation.

The energy behind the coverage is not equal, which it should be, if the act is wrong. Equal application of "wrong" would be ideal.

Check this guy's take out.
Click to expand...

Bwahahaha. Why the hell would any rational person expect the coverage of a star NFL RB to be the same as a porn star and a niche market sports guy 95% of America has never heard of?

I'm betting you can go to the police blotters in any city in America and find an incident with whites and one with blacks and they got perfectly equal coverage - GUAT.

When do you get your degree from YouTube U by the way?
 
infantrycak said:
Bwahahaha. Why the hell would any rational person expect the coverage of a star NFL RB to be the same as a porn star and a niche market sports guy 95% of America has never heard of?

I'm betting you can go to the police blotters in any city in America and find an incident with whites and one with blacks and they got perfectly equal coverage - GUAT.

When do you get your degree from YouTube U by the way?
Click to expand...

The point is...

Why are they making Ray Rice the poster child for Domestic Abuse?

This is just an updated version of what has happened to Black male sports celebrities, starting with Jack Johnson. If you know his story, this pattern will be very clear. As it's repeated all the time.

Mel Gibson busted his girl's teeth. She was a model. 95% of America HAVE heard of Mel Gibson, yet he was not made the poster child for domestic violence.

Charlie Sheen?

Gary Busey?

Ozzie Osborne?

Ben Roethlisberger?

Sean Penn?

Are you saying the woman deserved what happened to her, due to her chosen profession?

This is Jack Johnson 2014.

See the documentary "Unforgivable Blackness." The patterns are striking.

It all started with him. The pattern has continued throughout the last hundred years. Math don't lie. Cognitive Dissonance is insanity.
 
DexmanC said:
The point is...

Why are they making Ray Rice the poster child for Domestic Abuse?

This is just an updated version of what has happened to Black male sports celebrities, starting with Jack Johnson. If you know his story, this pattern will be very clear. As it's repeated all the time.

Mel Gibson busted his girl's teeth. She was a model. 95% of America HAVE heard of Mel Gibson, yet he was not made the poster child for domestic violence.

Charlie Sheen?

Gary Busey?
Are you saying the woman deserved what happened to her, due to her chosen profession?

This is Jack Johnson 2014.

See the documentary "Unforgivable Blackness." The patterns are striking.

It all started with him. The pattern has continued throughout the last hundred years. Math don't lie. Cognitive Dissonance is insanity.
Click to expand...

God where do we begin.

Rice isn't the poster child. His mistake is a video existing of him knocking out his finance. He's the flavor of the week on a subject that deserves much more attention. The fact he's black is something you are using to center on, while most are just upset with the general problem of domestic violence.

Gibson, Sheen etc would be in the same spotlight if there had been a video (prove me wrong) of them beating the **** out of their spouse/GF. In fact, I'd bet anything TMZ would kill for that video.

No matter how hard you try, you will not succeed. This isn't a black thing. Its a domestic violence thing. PERIOD.
 
DexmanC said:
Here is an interesting take on the Ray Rice situation.

The energy behind the coverage is not equal, which it should be, if the act is wrong. Equal application of "wrong" would be ideal.

Check this guy's take out.
Click to expand...

The gigantic media storm this week has been more about Roger Goodell and the NFL than it has the original story.

Almost all of the chatter on the boobtube and radio has been about if Goodell's head is going to roll and if this is a screw up or cover up. I have heard very little toward Ray Rice himself, and unfortunately, my desire to hear about actual football has been eclipsed by the Goodell hatred.
 
Double Barrel said:
The gigantic media storm this week has been more about Roger Goodell and the NFL than it has the original story.

Almost all of the chatter on the boobtube and radio has been about if Goodell's head is going to roll and if this is a screw up or cover up. I have heard very little toward Ray Rice himself, and unfortunately, my desire to hear about actual football has been eclipsed by the Goodell hatred.
Click to expand...

You forgot to point out Goodell is a white guy.
 
Double Barrel said:
Man, if that's the first time he had hit her, what a way to start!

I personally think when the ability to cross that line is in a man, it takes more than apologies, community service, and a little counseling to change him.

That kind of behavior and disrespect strikes at a deep character flaw in a man. It doesn't just happen. A dude either had it in him or doesn't, and in my life experiences, tigers cannot changer their stripes. How does a woman truly ever trust a man when he's punched her?

Short of putting my kids in danger, there is NOTHING my wife could ever do that would cause me to do such a thing. And even if my kids were in danger, I'd find some other way to subdue her before cold-cocking her with a left hook. The fact that I have to even go to such a far fetched scenario as my wife putting our kids in danger speaks to how far out there this behavior is from my own mindset.

Like you said, though, in rare cases people can change. It remains to be seen what kind of man Ray Rice is at the end of the day. Hopefully for his wife and his family, he is the exception to the rule.
Click to expand...

No way that was first time for him. Look at how non-chalantly he drags her out of the elevator, drops her, and then drags her feet. If I, for whatever reason, shoved my wife in an elevator and she hit her head on the railing and passed out, I'd be in panic, not knowing what to do next. He just picks up her shoes and kicks her legs.
 
DexmanC said:
The point is...

Why are they making Ray Rice the poster child for Domestic Abuse?

This is just an updated version of what has happened to Black male sports celebrities, starting with Jack Johnson. If you know his story, this pattern will be very clear. As it's repeated all the time.

Mel Gibson busted his girl's teeth. She was a model. 95% of America HAVE heard of Mel Gibson, yet he was not made the poster child for domestic violence.

Charlie Sheen?

Gary Busey?

Ozzie Osborne?

Ben Roethlisberger?

Sean Penn?

Are you saying the woman deserved what happened to her, due to her chosen profession?

This is Jack Johnson 2014.

See the documentary "Unforgivable Blackness." The patterns are striking.

It all started with him. The pattern has continued throughout the last hundred years. Math don't lie. Cognitive Dissonance is insanity.
Click to expand...

The left hook he put on that girl had nothing to do with Black.

He is a well known public figure caught on tape KOing a girl.

Jack Johnson? Please Dex.
 
DexmanC said:
Roethlisberger raped two women, not so much as a suspension from OTA's.

Riley Cooper? Nothin...

Marty Mcsorley almost killed a guy in the field of play, on purpose...

No jail time for him, no permanent banishment from the league.

Richard Sherman... Thug?

Justin Bieber... "Rambunctious young man," but absolutely not a "thug," no matter how many crimes he commits.

Sam Montgomery goes to jail for driving a car above his "place."

Patterns are cyclical, which is why they often repeat.
Click to expand...

Who and when did Big Ben rape anyone? You made that up out of thin air. Lol!

He wasn't guilty of anything and his white ass still got suspended you dolt. :vincepalm:
 
Just noticed that God'ell is trying to divert attention from this story with the AP crap that 2 yrs from now AP will be found innocent from these charges. (Not saying he's innocent, but Rusty Hardin is his lawyer.)
 
infantrycak said:
Not sure what you're going for here but parole evidence doesn't have any application in this instance.
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Absolutely right. I've misused a term about contract law because I couldn't remember the proper term. I was going for evidence outside of the typical witness testimony and parole evidence is evidence outside the four corners of a contract.

Of course, you have a better handle on the legal terms you use every day than I have from ancient history. I would welcome the appropriate term, if there is one.
 
Marshall said:
Absolutely right. I've misused a term about contract law because I couldn't remember the proper term. I was going for evidence outside of the typical witness testimony and parole evidence is evidence outside the four corners of a contract.

Of course, you have a better handle on the legal terms you use every day than I have from ancient history. I would welcome the appropriate term, if there is one.
Click to expand...

Please do not alter quotes of me to insert your incorrect spellings without labeling that you have done so.

And purely fyi - parol evidence is oral evidence. What is called the parol evidence rule excludes extrinsic evidence in contract matters but is named that because oral evidence is the most common form offered not because parol means extrinsic.
 
infantrycak said:
Please do not alter quotes of me to insert your incorrect spellings without labeling that you have done so.

And purely fyi - parol evidence is oral evidence. What is called the parol evidence rule excludes extrinsic evidence in contract matters but is named that because oral evidence is the most common form offered not because parol means extrinsic.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information.

ps as far as I know, I did not alter your quote in any way. I sometimes highlight a section of a quote, but do not change it. I can understand your objection were it to occur.
 
i do not condone what Ray Rice did in that elevator but I am really disappointed in the way he has been treated since the video came out.

He was judged by the NFL= gets two game suspension

general outcry from public over his "lenient" sentence= Goodell changes policy to automatic 1st time offender gets 6 games; 2nd time is indefinite.

TMZ releases the video= Goodell changes Rice's suspension to "indefinite"

Ravens subsequently terminate Rice from his contract

What happened to 6 games? How can he then get fired.

man has been judged 3 times now....I believe he has a good case.....
 
handswarmer said:
i do not condone what Ray Rice did in that elevator but I am really disappointed in the way he has been treated since the video came out.

He was judged by the NFL= gets two game suspension

general outcry from public over his "lenient" sentence= Goodell changes policy to automatic 1st time offender gets 6 games; 2nd time is indefinite.

TMZ releases the video= Goodell changes Rice's suspension to "indefinite"

Ravens subsequently terminate Rice from his contract

What happened to 6 games? How can he then get fired.

man has been judged 3 times now....I believe he has a good case.....
Click to expand...

Aside from the incident, the NFL and the Ravens have acted terribly throughout this whole ordeal.

I suspect any appeal that Ray Rice puts in will easily win in any court of law, and the NFL must know that.

It was undoubtedly a terrible action from Rice, however there is an expectation that a high profile multi-billion dollar organisation has a more rigid disciplinary policy in place.
 
mattieuk said:
Aside from the incident, the NFL and the Ravens have acted terribly throughout this whole ordeal.

I suspect any appeal that Ray Rice puts in will easily win in any court of law, and the NFL must know that.

It was undoubtedly a terrible action from Rice, however there is an expectation that a high profile multi-billion dollar organisation has a more rigid disciplinary policy in place.
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Ravens are bound by the CBA which says all discipline to come from League Office so they waited.

I just want to know how they (Ravens and NFL) expected that Rice knocked his fiancee' unconscious without it being "horrifying" and "Disgusting"?

Does the video make him "Guilty-ER"???

Public outcry goes against Rice, and is well deserved, but he made a mistake and should be given a second chance- for the owner of the Ravens to turn his back on the young man is disgraceful. If there is one place he could have gotten a second chance it was Baltimore.
 
handswarmer said:
i do not condone what Ray Rice did in that elevator but I am really disappointed in the way he has been treated since the video came out.

He was judged by the NFL= gets two game suspension

general outcry from public over his "lenient" sentence= Goodell changes policy to automatic 1st time offender gets 6 games; 2nd time is indefinite.

TMZ releases the video= Goodell changes Rice's suspension to "indefinite"

Ravens subsequently terminate Rice from his contract

What happened to 6 games? How can he then get fired.

man has been judged 3 times now....I believe he has a good case.....
Click to expand...
I think it's called double jeopardy in the legal system.

And, while I understand this isn't the legal system, I don't think the Union will let this precedent stand. If Goodell gets away with fluctuating punishments on this one, it opens the door to future changes of heart by the commish.
 
handswarmer said:
i do not condone what Ray Rice did in that elevator but I am really disappointed in the way he has been treated since the video came out.

He was judged by the NFL= gets two game suspension

general outcry from public over his "lenient" sentence= Goodell changes policy to automatic 1st time offender gets 6 games; 2nd time is indefinite.

TMZ releases the video= Goodell changes Rice's suspension to "indefinite"

Ravens subsequently terminate Rice from his contract

What happened to 6 games? How can he then get fired.

man has been judged 3 times now....I believe he has a good case.....
Click to expand...

And this I agree on.

Under how the league handled this situation, Rice should be back this week.
 
DBCooper said:
And this I agree on.

Under how the league handled this situation, Rice should be back this week.
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I agree that the indefinite suspension was bogus. He should have gotten 6 weeks at the most as per their "official" policy, but I don't think the Ravens owe him any kind of explanation over releasing him. Players get released every week. He will still get his guaranteed money, whatever that is.

If he gets reinstated, it'll be interesting who will take a shot on him.
 
DBCooper said:
And this I agree on.

Under how the league handled this situation, Rice should be back this week.
Click to expand...

I agree, the league screwed up. But I'd fight tooth & nail to keep him from coming back.

The league found out it had no clue what "domestic violence" is. Sometimes, it's "unbecoming" sometimes it's "inexcusable" Ray Rice's incident was inexcusable.

I've got no respect for a person like that. I don't need him on my team, in my club house, in my organization. I can't play with him on my team.

I know, I've probably got worse guys in my work force right now, but I don't know about it. If I did... there would be trouble.
 
paycheck71 said:
I agree that the indefinite suspension was bogus. He should have gotten 6 weeks at the most as per their "official" policy, but I don't think the Ravens owe him any kind of explanation over releasing him. Players get released every week. He will still get his guaranteed money, whatever that is.

If he gets reinstated, it'll be interesting who will take a shot on him.
Click to expand...

Why?

He was handed his 2 game suspension prior to the new policy.

How can he be held accountable to a suspension policy that didn't even exist?
 
DBCooper said:
Why?

He was handed his 2 game suspension prior to the new policy.

How can he be held accountable to a suspension policy that didn't even exist?
Click to expand...

I'm giving the league the benefit of the doubt by saying "He should have gotten 6 weeks at the most." Overall I agree with you, they f-d up from the get go. I thought his original punishment was extremely lenient, and had the league given him at least the standard 4 games, it would have probably been largely off the hook after the extended video came out.
 
paycheck71 said:
I'm giving the league the benefit of the doubt by saying "He should have gotten 6 weeks at the most." Overall I agree with you, they f-d up from the get go. I thought his original punishment was extremely lenient, and had the league given him at least the standard 4 games, it would have probably been largely off the hook after the extended video came out.
Click to expand...

I agree.

That's the whole point though.

Rice never lied about what happened. He said she came at him and he defended himself causing her to hit her head on the rail. Exactly what happened.

Goodell in his infinite wisdom gave him a 2 game suspension. That's what he should get.
 
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