Question for Kubiak supporters

[Jackie Chiles]

Mario can't beat decent Left Tackles and gets the overwhelming majority of his sacks and pressures when he is matched up against RBs and TEs. He was totally owned the past two weeks if anyone paid attention. He is a good player but he needs to step it up and play with more emotion and not just show it when he gets a sack and does that stupid Mario dance (even when we were 0-4)

It seems like he is really relying on the outside speed rush way too much for someone his size. Yes he is a freakish athlete but when he gets going its just too much weight and its impossible to make the necessary cuts required to turn the corner with as much regularity and success as the smaller guys. He needs to run someone over, screw the finesse. Or at least limit the amount of space he travels on his outside moves, he runs himself away from the QB in order to beat the tackle. Its just unnecessary.

 

[ObsiWan]

Without merit because "most aren't starters" for other (better) teams? I'd take two quality depth players on this bad team over what Bedell et. al. are contributing today.

It doesn't have to be every player. It doesn't have to be a player that could startfor the Giants.

I guess I'll ask my question again. If I am so wrong about the talent on that team, why will this team in all its superiority struggle to match its record? Note that blaming it all on the defense doesn't rebut the thought, because the defense is part of the team.


Without merit? I guess I disagree with that too.

okay "without merit" was a bit much.
Sorry.
My point is that while we have improved over the past two seasons, the simple fact is that we were really the pits when Kubiak took over. The only "superiority" we have reached is over who we were.

As I tried to point out earlier in this thread, if you look at the history of the teams that seemed to have "turned things around" none of them - not a one - had to dig out of as deep a talent hole as we had to.

Two things, IMHO, bear this out. (1) Out of all the guys we've cut, I can only think of 3 or 4 that are consistently making meaningful contributions to other teams: J. Gaffney, P. Bucc, Aaron Glenn, and, if you want to stretch it, Mr. Mittens. I might have missed a couple, but not many more than a couple. And as I recall, there were several posters who were glad to see P. Bucc and Gaffney leave town. So if its better coaching that's needed here, a close look says only those two guys actually responded to "better coaching". Aaron Glenn should never have been let go. The fact that he has something to offer at his age, and playing his position, says he could have really helped the young guys we have - probably more than Coach Hoke seems to have.
(2) Of the guys that make up our current roster, only about half dozen could make any of the 6 or 7 truly playoff caliber teams out there. Tell me who besides AJ, Winston, Daniels, Ryans, Mario, and KW could make a playoff team's starting squad.

All that to say that the fact that Kubiak & Co. has this team in position to snag a win - most of the time - with talent that we all know still needs upgrading tells me, it ain't da head coach that needs replacing.

I will concede this much though; it wouldn't hurt for Kubiak to be more demanding of his staff. He could use a little Singletary-style intensity (just a little) and a lot of Parcells-type accountability in his make-up. But that doesn't mean he needs to be fired. Dungy and Lovie Smith get the job done without all that Jon Gruden-like screaming.
But then, they have better players.

 

[Texans_Chick]

We were talking about the 2004 team... the one that went 7-9. If I said 2005, my bad. In fact, that was sort of my point in that they weren't world beaters, but could stop someone every once in awhile

Nah, I was making the point of what a big difference a really bad defense can make to your overall record.

That the 2004 team's defense was not ridiculous. And the 2005 defense was.

The 2005, 2006 and 2008 defenses had ridiculously bad starts to their seasons. The 2006 and 2008 teams had enough offense to have more than two wins with that sort of defense.

 

[ObsiWan]

let's seeee...

2005 defensive line-up
LDE Gary Walker
NT Seth Payne
RDE Robaire Smith
LOLB Shantee Orr
LILB DaShon Polk
LILB Kailee Wong
RILB Morlon Greenwood
ROLB Antwan Peek
LCB Demarcus Faggins
LCB Phillip Buchanon
LCB Dunta Robinson
SS C.C. Brown
SS Glenn Earl
FS Marcus Coleman
FS C.C. Brown

2004 defensive line-up
LDE Gary Walker
NT Seth Payne
RDE Robaire Smith
LOLB Jason Babin
LILB Jay Foreman
RILB Jamie Sharper
ROLB Kailee Wong
LCB Aaron Glenn
RCB Dunta Robinson
SS Glenn Earl
FS Marcus Coleman
FS Jason Simmons

Doesn't seem like that many changes were made. But a lot of experience went out the door with Sharper, Glenn, and Foreman.

 

[Lucky]

The Texans offense and special teams has performed way over league average.

I just can't go along with this. The Texans offense was over matched in the games versus Pittsburgh, Tennessee, and Baltimore. Yes, those are outstanding defenses. But a "way over league offense" wouldn't fold like WAMU when facing an outstanding defense. Nor would such an offense lead the league in interceptions. Some in epic fashion. That the Texans have, at times, feasted over some mediocre defenses doesn't infer greatness. Hey, I'm not saying it's a bad offense. Just not a winning offense.

It is easier to get a defensive coordinator than a proven head coach. Given that the obvious problem with the Texans is the defense and its lack of direction and focus, and the players love playing for Kubiak but do not like the DC, I think it is an easier call.

The Texans haven't had a proven head coach nor a good defensive coordinator in 7 seasons. Looks like both are difficult finds. Gary Kubiak is a proven offensive coordinator. But I would make the exampleless assertion that it's easier to find a WCO coordinator than a proven head coach or a good defensive coordinator.

And I really don't care if the Texans profess their love for Kubiak, after a blowout loss. The 2005 Texans loved Dom Capers. Capers and Kubiak are great guys. Just not great head coaches. I'd prefer the Texans fear their head coach, anyway. I doubt many Patriots love Bill Belichick. But, they love their Super Bowl rings.

Finally, Marty Schottenheimer is old. He just became eligible for Social Security benefits 2 months ago. But, he also was named NFL Coach of the year in 2004, at the age of 61. Maybe his best trait as a head coach is his ability to put together a great staff. Check into Marty's coaching tree. 10 current NFL coaches have been assistants under Schottenheimer.

 

[Texans_Chick]

I just can't go along with this. The Texans offense was over matched in the games versus Pittsburgh, Tennessee, and Baltimore. Yes, those are outstanding defenses. But a "way over league offense" wouldn't fold like WAMU when facing an outstanding defense. Nor would such an offense lead the league in interceptions. Some in epic fashion. That the Texans have, at times, feasted over some mediocre defenses doesn't infer greatness. Hey, I'm not saying it's a bad offense. Just not a winning offense.


The Texans haven't had a proven head coach nor a good defensive coordinator in 7 seasons. Looks like both are difficult finds. Gary Kubiak is a proven offensive coordinator. But I would make the exampleless assertion that it's easier to find a WCO coordinator than a proven head coach or a good defensive coordinator.

And I really don't care if the Texans profess their love for Kubiak, after a blowout loss. The 2005 Texans loved Dom Capers. Capers and Kubiak are great guys. Just not great head coaches. I'd prefer the Texans fear their head coach, anyway. I doubt many Patriots love Bill Belichick. But, they love their Super Bowl rings.

Finally, Marty Schottenheimer is old. He just became eligible for Social Security benefits 2 months ago. But, he also was named NFL Coach of the year in 2004, at the age of 61. Maybe his best trait as a head coach is his ability to put together a great staff. Check into Marty's coaching tree. 10 current NFL coaches have been assistants under Schottenheimer.

It's the Phil Jackson syndrome. Great proven coaches typically don't want to come into difficult situations. There's exceptions to that but basically if two people want to give you a pile of money, you go to the easier situation with the better players and more tradition.

Schottenheimer has had a remarkable career. By all accounts he is enjoying his retirement.

It would be lovely to think that some big name coach is going to come to Houston to rescue everything, but then it is just another huge do-over.

I'd just like to see what would happen if the same offense (with a bit more running) was able to play with a defense that wasn't ranked by efficiency rankings as:

2006 - 31st in the league
2007 - 30th in the league
2008 - currently 30th in the league

Maybe I'd be more excited about a big name proven head coach coming to Houston if I saw a name I thought was realistic and great. But I haven't.

But it wouldn't take much doing to get a coach better than Richard Smith. Not only is he unproven as a coordinator but he is also unliked as a coach. He is the easy guy to vote off the island.

I think Kubiak is a guy that coaches want to coach for, and players want to play for. Many fans in Denver miss having him as a coach. I don't think the players love him because he treats them nice all the time either. The way they talk about Kubiak is totally different than the way guys talked about Capers.

 

[Lucky]

It would be lovely to think that some big name coach is going to come to Houston to rescue everything, but then it is just another huge do-over.

As a fan and ticket buyer, I would prefer a big name. But, that's not a deal breaker for me. I'm not afraid of a do-over, I'm afraid of another year of excuses for losing.

The 4 teams that changed head coaches last offseason are a combined 23-13. Change can be good. And I'm not as down on the Texans talent as you and some other fans are. I think there is more to extract from these players than Kubiak and his staff are getting. A roster that starts with Andre Johnson, Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, and Owen Daniels is one that a potential head coach can get excited about.

And I don't want to see the "same offense", next season. These QBs must learn how to protect the ball. It would help if they weren't getting hit so often. By Texans standards, this is a good offensive line. By NFL standards for success, not so good. I don't really care what type of blocking scheme is used, just find a way to run the ball with some consitancy.

Gary Kubiak's favorite word since becoming head coach is "accountability". He cut Carr and it seemed like Gary was a man of his words. But, what about Weaver? And Green? Richard Smith and Jon Hoke? That word accountability rings hollow, now. All I'm asking of the owner is some accountability. Not more excuses.

 

[Specnatz]

As a fan and ticket buyer, I would prefer a big name. But, that's not a deal breaker for me. I'm not afraid of a do-over, I'm afraid of another year of excuses for losing.

The 4 teams that changed head coaches last offseason are a combined 23-13. Change can be good. And I'm not as down on the Texans talent as you and some other fans are. I think there is more to extract from these players than Kubiak and his staff are getting. A roster that starts with Andre Johnson, Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, and Owen Daniels is one that a potential head coach can get excited about.

And I don't want to see the "same offense", next season. These QBs must learn how to protect the ball. It would help if they weren't getting hit so often. By Texans standards, this is a good offensive line. By NFL standards for success, not so good. I don't really care what type of blocking scheme is used, just find a way to run the ball with some consitancy.

Gary Kubiak's favorite word since becoming head coach is "accountability". He cut Carr and it seemed like Gary was a man of his words. But, what about Weaver? And Green? Richard Smith and Jon Hoke? That word accountability rings hollow, now. All I'm asking of the owner is some accountability. Not more excuses.

There are such things as one year fixes. As in things change for one year then revert back to the way they were. Look at all the teams who have changed coaches prior to this year and say that coach is the man.

 

[Runner]

let's seeee...

2005 defensive line-up
...


2004 defensive line-up
...



Doesn't seem like that many changes were made. But a lot of experience went out the door with Sharper, Glenn, and Foreman.

As you've shown, the drop in the Texans performance must of had factors other than personnel. I think this was true on both sides of the ball.

After the bad start in 2005 the Texans finally got around to firing their OC (even though Pendry was the one that should have gone) and the political BS between the coaches and front office finally trumped concerns about on field performance. The players lost interest because of this and the fact that it quickly became clear they were playing for a lame duck coaching staff.

This was the year it became very clear that game performance wasn't the driving factor in playing time at other positions instead of just at quarterback.

I think that team was a classic example of players putting in the time and playing for their checks. They had no belief in the coaches and no hope of being successful. So they weren't.

IMO.

 

[Specnatz]

As you've shown, the drop in the Texans performance must of had factors other than personnel. I think this was true on both sides of the ball.

After the bad start in 2005 the Texans finally got around to firing their OC (even though Pendry was the one that should have gone) and the political BS between the coaches and front office finally trumped concerns about on field performance. The players lost interest because of this and the fact that it quickly became clear they were playing for a lame duck coaching staff.

This was the year it became very clear that game performance wasn't the driving factor in playing time at other positions instead of just at quarterback.

I think that team was a classic example of players putting in the time and playing for their checks. They had no belief in the coaches and no hope of being successful. So they weren't.

IMO.

I get this feeling from our defense at times.