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Profootballtalk unimpresed, VY in play?
- Thread starter Dr. Toro
- Start date
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
In 1988, Troy Aikman's last year in college, what QB won the heisman trophy?
Rodney Peete... Why? because Rodney Peete was a better college QB than Troy Aikman. However, Aikman was drafted 1st overall and Peete was drafted in the 5th round. Aikman's skills were better suited for the NFL but Peete was the better college QB.
Vince Young was one of the all-time great college football players. However, his game is not tailored for the NFL. Now, he has more NFL potential than someone like Peete because he has adequate height and even more athletic ability than Peete had. However, Vince will need a couple of years on the sideline and a couple of years learning on the field before anyone knows if he will make it as an NFL Qb. It just doesn't make to draft a player #1 overall with that much uncertainty that is that much of a project- regardless of potential.
Rodney Peete... Why? because Rodney Peete was a better college QB than Troy Aikman. However, Aikman was drafted 1st overall and Peete was drafted in the 5th round. Aikman's skills were better suited for the NFL but Peete was the better college QB.
Vince Young was one of the all-time great college football players. However, his game is not tailored for the NFL. Now, he has more NFL potential than someone like Peete because he has adequate height and even more athletic ability than Peete had. However, Vince will need a couple of years on the sideline and a couple of years learning on the field before anyone knows if he will make it as an NFL Qb. It just doesn't make to draft a player #1 overall with that much uncertainty that is that much of a project- regardless of potential.
I think he was the best passer in 2005.KSig44 said:
He's got a strong arm, and is very accurate despite the motion. He's got great vision, poise under pressure, and is accurate on the move. Makes good football decisions, and manages his offense well.KSig44 said:
WOW.......... OMG............. LOOK AT VINCE YOUNG FLY ACROSS THE FIELD...KSig44 said:
That's not the kind of thing fans say as they watch him play.... Speed isn't a big part of his game....
By the by, I've never knocked Reggie about his game.... he's amazing... with our FA acquisitions, I want Reggie, makes the most sense....... But I'd take Vince before Reggie in a heartbeat.
As the QB goes, so does the team.
Yeah, VY was a great college QB, much like Charlie Ward, Tommy Frazier, Ty Detmer, Andre Ware, David Klingler and the list goes on. He is fast, but running will be a non factor in the NFL. Michael Vick is somewhat effective and he runs a sub 4.4, Vy will get his teeth knocked in the minute he crosses the line of scrimmage. He has never won a game against a good to average team by purely sitting in the pocket and throwing, his speed is always a threat. Games he has been shut down on the run, he has looked below average (see A&M this year, and that was a bad defense). Bush give you so many more options on offense and plus, HE CAN START RIGHT NOW. we won't have to wait on him.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Lucky said:
thank you.. that's right. the point is still valid regarding the 2 Qbs however.
kbourda
Veteran
texasguy346 said:
Never once did I say there was a conspiracy. I was simply giving my opinion. I just call it how I see it. If you think otherwise, so be it. Also, I noticed you made the comment about a "wise" investment. I have a question. How would selecting Young be a "wise" investment? You and I both know no franchise would tie that much money in one position. It just does not seem logical to do that. So now do you see where I am coming from? It's not "sour grapes", it's reality.
Johnny Utah
Rookie
kbourda said:
You're absolutely correct and I think the Texans are doing the same thing.
Does anybody remember at the beginning of the VY/Bush debate Bob Allen asked Casserly about Young and Carr, and Casserly basically said that we already have a QB. Implying that the Texans would have no interest in drafting VY.
Then the following day sports radio stations were getting blown up by callers ripping Casserly for not even willing to look at VY. Even our ex-mayor's wife, Elyse Lanier, phoned in to 610am outraged by Casserly's comments.
Immediately following all this damage control came in and Bob McNair & Casserly started stating that their mind is not made up, and they will be looking at every possibility wheter it be Bush, Young, or a trade down.
All of this is a show. IMO
texasguy346
Mod Squad
kbourda said:
As Dr. Toro pointed out it isn't exactly a 'wise' investment to devote a ton of money to the RB position either, but when I said wise investment I'm referring more to investing the money in a player who the team feels is better suited to help them succeed.
Nearly any player worthy of the #1 pick that the Texans could take would mean putting a lot of money at a particular position. Mario Williams would mean we have a lot of money invested at the DE position with Weaver, Babin, Kalu, & Peek. Picking D'Brick would mean investing a lot of money in the OT position since Wade has a big contract & I believe Pitts just signed a new contract last offseason.
Sure CC and Kubiak invested a lot of money in Carr, but all that happened after the Rose Bowl. So that means that after the scouting department had a chance to review VY's game tape, and after his phenomenal performace at the Rose Bowl the Texans decided to pick up Carr's option. If the Texans had signed Carr to a multi-year extension prior to the 2005 season then I could see where you'd have a case, because they would've decided on sticking with Carr before VY was considered a possible draft prospect. Even if that was the case though you'd have a weak argument because the Texans just re-signed DD to a pretty big contract prior to last season, and are still likely to pick another RB who'll carry a considerable price tag. Again it's not wise to invest a lot of money in one position. That being said it still happens in the NFL, and it's going to happen with the Texans no matter who they pick.
I have not seen any reports of a handheld 4.28. That was Gil Brandt's conjecture in an article which incorrectly reported it was run on turf. Pasquarelli's account had handheld times of 4.37 and 4.41... that's on a track. It means he's really really fast, certainly fast enough.Hulk75 said:The kid ran a 4.3 electric, which = to a 4.28 handheld. I have heard from ESPN, John Clayton, Mort and NFL Network. NFL Network reported that he did 25 reps not 24 on 225lbs.
Nice try
http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2394532
P
PoleCat
Guest
Hulk75 said:The kid ran a 4.3 electric, which = to a 4.28 handheld. I have heard from ESPN, John Clayton, Mort and NFL Network. NFL Network reported that he did 25 reps not 24 on 225lbs.
Nice try
You got this backward, dude. Handheld ADDS 8/10s of a second over electric. So the 4.37 electric is 4.45 handheld. The 8/10s second extra in handheld is to allow for the eye/hand delay in the timer.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Hulk75 said:The kid ran a 4.3 electric, which = to a 4.28 handheld. I have heard from ESPN, John Clayton, Mort and NFL Network. NFL Network reported that he did 25 reps not 24 on 225lbs.
Nice try
Agreed. I have just felt always, the best course of action was to tie up big money in the lock at Left offensive tackel. Writting is on the wall though...I think unless they get a block buster deal, we'll all be buying RB jerseys come May. I just don't see anyone belowus willing to give up multipul picks for Bush. Too many warts. I still have doubts about his inside running ablity, but if they fix the line, (big if) all he'll have to do is get through the first wave. I have doubts about his blitz pick up...we'll see. Bush fits Cubes' " were one great player away to get into contention" thinking. He'll also be a bone for the season ticket holders. Won't say it's a done deal...but it looks like it's 99.99% a done deal.
And I also think that they should try to move Mathis now while he still has significant value. Send feelers out befor the draft. If they can pick up another pick for him , rounds 5-3, they should deal him. Reggie Bush makes Mathis redundant. For the kind of money he will command...they should want him out there early and often. Lot of good football palyers will be floating around in those mid rounds. We still need a bunch of them. JMHO. Might work out.
KSig44 said:
Don't forget Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington, J.P. Lossman, John Journeyman Kitna, Rob Johnson, Heath Shuler, Vinny Testeverde(man I loved watching him @ the U), Kerry Collins, Rick Mirer, David Klinger.... the list goes on, and on.
TEXANRED said:
not in arm strength, mobility and speed he isn't.......
KSig44 said:
Reggie Bush is a great COLLEGE running back and Matt Leinart is a great COLLEGE quarterback. So the same thing applies to them as well. Bush is not gonna start automatically. You basically want to give him the job before he even hits the rookie mini-camp.
P.S. Vince beat a top twenty defense on the road with his arm (tOSU). He threw the game winning TD in a very good spot.
Johnny Utah said:
The Texans should make draft decisions based upon how the man on the street feels about drafting the local boy made good. That's been the Young camp's argument from day one. Frankly I am looking forward to April 29th so we can get past these asinine debates in which the Young camp tries to make a Young selection out to be about something else.
We should be glad the front office is not willing to go with the marketing dept's pick and take Young. Young alone would give them a fan base in Central Texas with thousands of burnt orange wearing goobers to exploit.
MorKnolle
All Pro
Dr. Toro said:
PoleCat said:
Handhelds don't necessarily add 8/10 of second, that is the theoretical reaction time of a human time keeper, but at the same time a human could over-anticipate and stop the timer before the runner actually gets across the line and make the time lower than it really is, and an electric timer is still started by a human on the runner's first movement, it just stops on its own once he crosses the finish line. Either way these times are somewhat inaccurate, as evidenced by the varying measurements with each individual run. Generally the fastest time that was recorded is the one reported (in Bush's case his 4.33, in Vince's case the 4.57, and for anyone else that ran at their pro day or the Combine. If you wanted a truly accurate time then you'd record it onto tape and freeze-frame it to get the exact moment they start and cross the end line, and it would probably add .2-.4 seconds for every single runner. The 40 is not an exact science, it is an attempt to measure a player's explosiveness and speed. It can reveal a decent amount about a player's athleticism, but frequently too much attention is put into the 40 time that is in reality pretty inaccurate.
el toro said:
Ok, I'm marking el toro down as."Vince Young has no talent, and will not amount to anything in the NFL"
MONARCH
Noob
Hervoyel said:
Greetings great pal...
I will be more than happy to make your acquaintance......for this is indeed what great pals do, right....?
.......but then again, great pal Hervoyel.......I am MOST CERTAIN THAT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO LOCATE ME IMMEDIATELY! For I'll be the one sporting that BURNT ORANGE GLOW........
Our native son VY is heading home to play.....
MONARCH
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Brick Tamland: Yeah, there were horses, and a man on fire, and I killed a guy with a trident!
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
johnny_tlmn said:
It was a high brow mash up of a cinema quote sampled into a real time medium.
http://dailynews.com/sports/ci_3673241
"Tailback Reggie Bush and safety Darnell Bing drew cheers for their 40-yard dash times during Sunday's Pro Day workouts at USC, but those marks are not being used by NFL teams for draft preparations.
Bush ran the 40 in 4.33 seconds, according to the electronic-timing system used at Cromwell Field while Bing ran it in 4.53 seconds.
NFL teams, who hand-timed the races, gave Bush times ranging from 4.41 to 4.44"
Specifics regarding the Bush pro-day. So now an LA paper is reporting it was between 4.41 and 4.44 on a track, in track spikes, handtimed. I will not doubt his football speed, but the difference between a 4.3 and 4.4 is notable, especially if the guy is 5'11 200. Guys in the combine ran on field turf in sneakers, and a lot of bigger backs run 4.4s. I am not saying Bush can't be a great running back, just that he isn't superhuman and will have to adjust his game considerably like everyone else.
"Tailback Reggie Bush and safety Darnell Bing drew cheers for their 40-yard dash times during Sunday's Pro Day workouts at USC, but those marks are not being used by NFL teams for draft preparations.
Bush ran the 40 in 4.33 seconds, according to the electronic-timing system used at Cromwell Field while Bing ran it in 4.53 seconds.
NFL teams, who hand-timed the races, gave Bush times ranging from 4.41 to 4.44"
Specifics regarding the Bush pro-day. So now an LA paper is reporting it was between 4.41 and 4.44 on a track, in track spikes, handtimed. I will not doubt his football speed, but the difference between a 4.3 and 4.4 is notable, especially if the guy is 5'11 200. Guys in the combine ran on field turf in sneakers, and a lot of bigger backs run 4.4s. I am not saying Bush can't be a great running back, just that he isn't superhuman and will have to adjust his game considerably like everyone else.
You pro VY supporters might be "drunk as Cooter Brown on draft day" if VY is picked, but I will be "drunk as Cooter Brown" every day after until that failed experiment known as VY is cut off of the Texans roster.
Thank God bush will be the pick, you'all will just have to deal with it (as well as the rest of the NFL). Let the Titans suffer with Vince "Radio" Young and his inability to read a NFL defense, his inability to scramble with 4.57 speed, and his inability to read a playbook. His game is based around the offense planned for him, no NFL will do that. Well, maybe Atlanta. Players must be a cog in a NFL offense, not the other way around.
Thank God bush will be the pick, you'all will just have to deal with it (as well as the rest of the NFL). Let the Titans suffer with Vince "Radio" Young and his inability to read a NFL defense, his inability to scramble with 4.57 speed, and his inability to read a playbook. His game is based around the offense planned for him, no NFL will do that. Well, maybe Atlanta. Players must be a cog in a NFL offense, not the other way around.
KSig44 said:
hahahahahahaha :roflmao: hahahahahahhahahahahah
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha
I'm not going to suggest Bush won't have to "adjust" his game. Every rookie entering the league will. None more than Vince Young. But to suggest that hand timing is more accurate than electronic timing, as these NFL sources do, is absurd. I'm guessing these NFL scouts with their trusty stopwatch are descendants of the guys who a century ago proclaimed "The automobiles are just a flash in the pan. They'll never replace my horse and buggy."Dr. Toro said: