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Pre-Season Sack Responsibility

SESupergenius said:
I have to wait until I watch the replay tonight because I actually didn't see the game televised, but If Kubiak is yelling at Carr then fantastic, because that shows that Carr can respond to this type of coaching because he went out and led a solid drive for a TD.
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We know that Carr and Sage can lead drives against second team defenses. We are waiting to see one of them do it against a first team defense with consistency.
 
I suspect this next game should tell alot because A) Carr will be playing the entire 1st half again against 1st teams. B) Kubiak will prepare better for this game and scheme against the defense. You should see Carr roll out this game unlike the last one. C) Kubiak will be fixing whatever Carr is lacking in recognition.

Denver is going to be a huge benchmark for us, I don't think we've ever won 3 games in a row. Besides that, they are a playoff team and we need to measure our offense against that. Their defense knows all of the tricks of our offense and we'll see what Carr can do.
 
SESupergenius said:
I suspect this next game should tell alot because A) Carr will be playing the entire 1st half again against 1st teams. B) Kubiak will prepare better for this game and scheme against the defense. You should see Carr roll out this game unlike the last one. C) Kubiak will be fixing whatever Carr is lacking in recognition.

Denver is going to be a huge benchmark for us, I don't think we've ever won 3 games in a row. Besides that, they are a playoff team and we need to measure our offense against that. Their defense knows all of the tricks of our offense and we'll see what Carr can do.
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Totally agree. Full playbook and something to prove for the Texans staff and their QB makes for an interesting 1st half.
 
SESupergenius said:
Their defense knows all of the tricks of our offense and we'll see what Carr can do.
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And that may very well have been the reason for a more straight up approach to StL............. against Denver, we'll probably mix it up a bit, to keep them on their toes.......

and with so many teams assimilating the zoneblocking into their games, maybe it is time the approach is adapted......
 
thunderkyss said:
He's saying the same thing I said....... there are things David could've done to avoid the sack...... but the sack will go against Lundy....
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"he shouldn't be expected to do something do things because someone else made a mistake."

HUH???
 
Trade'06pick said:
I expected Carr to go an entire season without getting sacked.:sarcasm:
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What many figured was that less sacks would equate to more output from Carr. The collective result by the Texans is undeniable.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
What many figured was that less sacks would equate to more output from Carr. The collective result by the Texans in undeniable.
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Very well said.

We'll see if that trend continues into the regular season.

The running game has been solid in the preseason to provide decent offensive performance the first two games. If the running game goes away, it doesn't look good thus far.
 
First there was THE DRIVE (John Elway), then there was THE CATCH (Dwight Clark), now there is THE SACK (David Carr).......
 
chuckm said:
First there was THE DRIVE (John Elway), then there was THE CATCH (Dwight Clark), now there is THE SACK (David Carr).......
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And the Sack leaves the Drive and the Catch in the dust in the amount of threads and posts that they have spawned. ;)
 
Kaiser Toro said:
And the Sack leaves the Drive and the Catch in the dust in the amount of threads and posts that they have spawned. ;)
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I'm not even gonna attempt to leave you Rep ..... you're way over the limit, as am I .....
 
Kaiser Toro said:
We know that Carr and Sage can lead drives against second team defenses. We are waiting to see one of them do it against a first team defense with consistency.
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LOL. I watched Indy the other night, they were very crisp on the first drive. Starters left soon after. Kubes preaches that we have a long way to go....it shows at times....but we're getting there....gotta have faith!
 
RiotCommander said:
Lundy cannot block anyone period. I'm just thankful that Morency was quickly put in to shore up that problem. He did an outstanding job stopping anyone coming in.
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dont get me wrong morency did a great job in both rushing and picking up the blocks but lundy is still learning on how to play the game at its highest level we just need to give him time to adjust and learn some things on the way isnt that what the preseason is for
 
jtijerina32 said:
dont get me wrong morency did a great job in both rushing and picking up the blocks but lundy is still learning on how to play the game at its highest level we just need to give him time to adjust and learn some things on the way isnt that what the preseason is for
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Yes, but it will probably take a lot longer than one preseason.
 
i dont think it'll take lundy too long to adjust to pass blocking, especially the way he's currently playing. lundy's obviously fearless, and that's a lot of his problem. he tries to stand up the defensive players and out muscle them ... a noble thought for a runningback, but that wont work outside of training camp. obviously it's just fine to block ryans at camp when he's not allowed to hit the qb, but when tinoisamoa has "kill" writtin across his helmet, standing there hoping to catch him is going to get carr flattened. it's something that in that condition, will be easy to fix however. sherman & kubiak will have lundy using that strength and trying to create a realistic balance by throwing more cut blocks on the outside and using his stand up technique to plug blitzes up the middle.

there are 2 words that need to be remembered throughout this preseason & regular season ... "kubiak" and "sherman". for the first time in our short history, everything is coachable. we will be good, if not this year (i'm not that naive, but i am that optomistic), then next. if you want to worry about pass blocking, pitts & weary looked the worst against the rams, not our 6th round rookie runningback. be patient folks.
 
infantrycak said:
Silly me, now I am regretting it--I thought this sack was going to be an easy one to get things started.
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I thought this would be a good thread too. It would have been nice to take a serious, focused look at sack responsibility while they were fresh on everyone's minds and DVRs. It's disappointing when the theory of a good thread meets the reality of the fact that Carr is one of the people that must be discussed as part of the thread.

However, the points that were made on the narrow topic were good to read. Overall I think we should give this thread further trial after the Denver game.
 
infantrycak said:
See, I'm hoping there won't be anything to discuss. :cool:
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Shoot, I was hoping this was a "who gets the REAL credit for our defensive sacks" thread. Yeah, hopefully there won't be many to discuss.
 
infantrycak said:
See, I'm hoping there won't be anything to discuss. :cool:
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We can always roast the linemen who let the defender get "to close" to the QB on a successful play.
 
Watched the game for the first time last night. It is apparent that there's alot of improvement, but alot more to go. I would imagine that the real fruit of the changes made, won't start coming fully together till close to the halfway point in the season. I figure by game 7 or 8, the next generation of "Texans Football" will be very evident.
 
Preseason Denver vs. Texans

1st qtr--6:44 Carr's fault--makes a nice shifty play on the 1st guy but has to realize when to get rid of the ball.

1st qtr--3:22 Wiegert--sets up for an outside rush and gets beat inside handily.
 
Yep, Weigert got run over on that one. I kept wondering why Wand wasn't playing at LT and how come he's got to hold off Spencer when Weigert seems to me to consistently be in trouble.

I'd think the better of Spencer/Winston would be pushing Weigert to the bench right now. I am (admittedly) just a fan though so what do I know.
 
Hard to say. Weigert seems to be getting an easy path to starting. The coaches must think they know what they will get from him in the real games and aren't too worried. That seems out of character for this staff though.
 
Just saw the highlight and Weigert got eaten for petit dejeuner. Getting your posterior backed up like a Sir Mix-a-lot single ain't going to cut it metphorically speaking in the NFL.
 
Runner said:
Hard to say. Weigert seems to be getting an easy path to starting. The coaches must think they know what they will get from him in the real games and aren't too worried. That seems out of character for this staff though.
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I totally agree that Weigert is getting an easy path. Winston has been holding up his well enough to take that postion over sooner or later. I'm still not fixed on Spencer over ther at the LT postion either.
 
Folks--let's try not to turn this into a position battle thread and keep it a discussion purely of responsibility for sacks.
 
infantrycak said:
Folks--let's try not to turn this into a position battle thread and keep it a discussion purely of responsibility for sacks.
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OK, Weigert sucked tonight and it showed by Carr geting his *** sacked again.
 
infantrycak said:
Preseason Denver vs. Texans

1st qtr--6:44 Carr's fault--makes a nice shifty play on the 1st guy but has to realize when to get rid of the ball.

1st qtr--3:22 Wiegert--sets up for an outside rush and gets beat inside handily.
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Hey...... can you update/edit your first post, for those who want to keep a running count, but don't want to dig through 5 pages of stuff??

I also agree with this post.
 
Summary

Pre-season Sack 1--Texans @ Rams--1st qtr 14:16--primarily on Lundy failing to pick up the blitzing LB.

Preseason Sack 2--Texans @ Denver--1st qtr--6:44--primarily on Carr--makes a nice shifty play on the 1st guy but has to realize when to get rid of the ball.

Preseason Sack 3--Texans @ Denver--1st qtr--3:22--Wiegert--sets up for an outside rush and gets beat inside handily.
 
infantrycak said:
Summary

Pre-season Sack 1--Texans @ Rams--1st qtr 14:16--primarily on Lundy failing to pick up the blitzing LB.

Preseason Sack 2--Texans @ Denver--1st qtr--6:44--primarily on Carr--makes a nice shifty play on the 1st guy but has to realize when to get rid of the ball.

Preseason Sack 3--Texans @ Denver--1st qtr--3:22--Wiegert--sets up for an outside rush and gets beat inside handily.
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Are you sure the Rams sack is on Lundy? Carr seemed to be so far back that he wasn't even in the pocket.

If it is on Lundy, then he was completely out of position because the rusher had basically a straight line to Carr.

I thought Kubiak said something that is was more than just Lundy on that play.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Are you sure the Rams sack is on Lundy? Carr seemed to be so far back that he wasn't even in the pocket.

If it is on Lundy, then he was completely out of position because the rusher had basically a straight line to Carr.

I thought Kubiak said something that is was more than just Lundy on that play.
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Lundy got man-handled...:superman:
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Lundy got man-handled...:superman:
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Then I must be thinking of a play where Carr was only pressured and not sacked.

The play I remember, Lundy couldn't have gotten man handled because the rusher didn't have run threw him or around him to get to Carr.

It looked like to me that someone was out of position. Maybe it was both of them?
 
hollywood_texan said:
Then I must be thinking of a play where Carr was only pressured and not sacked.

The play I remember, Lundy couldn't have gotten man handled because the rusher didn't have run threw him or around him to get to Carr.

It looked like to me that someone was out of position. Maybe it was both of them?
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You are probably thinking of the play they called a fumble and then reversed. The Rams sent a two safety blitz--Lundy got one, the other came clean to hit Carr. Didn't go down as a sack, but as an incomplete pass because his arm was in motion.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Then I must be thinking of a play where Carr was only pressured and not sacked.

The play I remember, Lundy couldn't have gotten man handled because the rusher didn't have run threw him or around him to get to Carr.

It looked like to me that someone was out of position. Maybe it was both of them?
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It was a play where DC made a deep drop back. It looked to be a designed 7 step drop pass play. You're probably just not used to seeing him drop back that far due to normally being sacked by the third step.:)
 
infantrycak said:
You are probably thinking of the play they called a fumble and then reversed. The Rams sent a two safety blitz--Lundy got one, the other came clean to hit Carr. Didn't go down as a sack, but as an incomplete pass because his arm was in motion.
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I think he is talking about the play where Moulds ran a lazy out to the first down marker. Carr looked at him, and didn't throw the ball. Then David ran out of the pocket, to the left.

The man trying to get through Spencer/Wand left him to chase the QB.... he got a mit on David, and as he was throwing David to the ground, David tossed the ball about 3 feet in front of Moulds.

I believe Kubiak was saying Carr was more at fault than Wand/Spencer.... if he'd have stayed in the pocket, or threw the ball to Moulds to begin with, all would have been fine.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Then I must be thinking of a play where Carr was only pressured and not sacked.

The play I remember, Lundy couldn't have gotten man handled because the rusher didn't have run threw him or around him to get to Carr.

It looked like to me that someone was out of position. Maybe it was both of them?
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that's right, but on that one, Lundy was out of position alltogether.

Whether David dropped back to far or not, you don't let people run around your backfield for the heck of it.
 
infantrycak said:
You are probably thinking of the play they called a fumble and then reversed. The Rams sent a two safety blitz--Lundy got one, the other came clean to hit Carr. Didn't go down as a sack, but as an incomplete pass because his arm was in motion.
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I am not confusing it with that one.

That one looked like an exotice blitz package to confuse Carr. It looked like a delayed blitzed and purposesly designed to overload the running back blocker. Lundy took the inside guy and Carr got wacked because the outside game came clean like you said.

Not sure who to blame there.

Would like to hear your thoughts on that one.
 
hollywood_texan said:
That one looked like an exotice blitz package to confuse Carr. It looked like a delayed blitzed and purposesly designed to overload the running back blocker. Lundy took the inside guy and Carr got wacked because the outside game came clean like you said.

Not sure who to blame there.

Would like to hear your thoughts on that one.
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That's one I am not sure we have enough information to judge. Maybe one of the OLmen at that gap had responsibility for sliding. Maybe Carr had authority to and should have audibled after recognizing the blitz. Maybe Lundy could have plugged the hole by cut blocking the 1st guy. Maybe a TE didn't release cleanly for a relief throw. In the end it was a free shot at the QB and Carr did the only thing possible getting the incompletion--would have been nice if his arm came forward faster so it was more clearly incomplete rather than a fumble.
 
infantrycak said:
That's one I am not sure we have enough information to judge. Maybe one of the OLmen at that gap had responsibility for sliding. Maybe Carr had authority to and should have audibled after recognizing the blitz. Maybe Lundy could have plugged the hole by cut blocking the 1st guy. Maybe a TE didn't release cleanly for a relief throw. In the end it was a free shot at the QB and Carr did the only thing possible getting the incompletion--would have been nice if his arm came forward faster so it was more clearly incomplete rather than a fumble.
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Totally hear ya, but it also seemed to me to be the perfect call by the defensive coordinator of the Rams.

I think our offense is still showing serious tendacies and is really only succesful at running the ball and some short throws. Carr is going to get more and more blitz's like this unless he can make defenses pay for it.
 
Does David Carr lack "touch" on his deep balls? How can you have Andre Johnson, one of the fastest men in the NFL (pro bowl 2005 fastest man competion) continually catching 8 and 9 yard crossing patterns. I was surprised Carr even tried to hit him deep in Denver, I thought he would check down to his running back, as usual.
 
Welcome to the MB. Not to bust on you right from the get go but please find a thread which is topical for your query. This one is about sacks. There are several threads around debating Carr. Thanks.
 
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