thetexanator
Veteran
can we really go another year with this guy? we seriously need to upgrade at corner. what do u guys think?
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PBUC 2nd year
- Thread starter thetexanator
- Start date
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
pretty much everyone agrees. the raiders are still laughing at us.
Dunta_23
Rookie
I think depeding on the scheme he could be a # 2 starter/nickle...He isnt going to start laying the wood, so maybe we have to home his coverage skills and big play ability start to show. IMO I think we need to bring another quality corner in via the draft or FA. With the lack of TRUE 4-3 DE, I believe there will be a lot of pressure on the secondary.
coreyvice said:
Good Idea .... I got a really good laugh outa that !
Dunta_23 said:
NO , and NO again , P-Burnt wont play the system .... thats one of his biggest problems .... he's always out of position and gambles to make the INT rather than the solid play .... as PowerfulDragon said above ... The Raiders and Al Davis are Still laughing ....I think he should A) get cut , B) play special teams until he can show some discipline .... Being a contract year he better put it together
run-david-run
All Pro
Hey, what did the Raiders get out of those draft picks? Anyone know? If they actually draft someone good, then they got the best of it, but the infamous Ditka/Ricky Williams trade brought absolutley nothing out of the draft.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
He will only count 800k against the cap next year, very cheap. If you buy into the arguement that the staff will help so and so next year, then you must also take a wait and see attitude with PBuc.
Kaiser Toro said:
The problem here is that the D-Backs will be coached by the same person ... And if Jon Hoke Cant get the best out of Buchannon ... I just dont think it can be done ....Hoke is one of the best DB coaches around .... But the price is right .... $800k isnt gonna hurt the cap much , He will have another year to show what he can do.
LowDownSkinny
Practice Squad
I have to say, I initially saw "PBUC" in the subject and racked my brain to think of what it was...
Pass Break Up?
No.
Pass Break Up Corner?
Nooooooo, they're talking about Philip BUChanon. Of course, he's not a pass-break-up corner.
Pass Break Up?
No.
Pass Break Up Corner?
Nooooooo, they're talking about Philip BUChanon. Of course, he's not a pass-break-up corner.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
corrosion said:
I agree with your take on Hoke, but just to twist it a bit how about this? Hoke was a soldier and was going with Fangio's plan as was PBuc playing that awful zone coverage. Remeber how happy Hoke and Buchanon were to work with another when he was acquired? Maybe Hoke thought there would be more man coverage and then Fangio went more towards zone. I have no idea, just throwing it out there.
Kaiser Toro said:
Well .... Being a contract year .... Buchannon has little choice but to show he can play a system and not just free-lance .... Or find a new line of work ....
Be it zone or man , with his speed and other physical tools he should have little trouble ... Its the mental side of the game that I just dont think he gets .
I really think he's a ME FIRST player in the ultimate TEAM sport .
(and his tackling has to be the worst of any corner in the NFL .... cant or wont I dont know which)
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
corrosion said:
That statement does not need parentheses, it needs to breathe and be heard. I am not a PBuch apologist, I do see value, but he needs to eat a few jalapenos to help grow some hair and take on those runners with a purpose.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
My guess is that he'll play very well this year. He strikes me as the kind of guy who will play well in his contract year. While it appears to have been a bad trade, it's important to remember that it was a low risk gamble. We got a 1st round talent for two years- counting nothing against the cap. And, if he does have a good year and leaves via free agency, we will get a high compensatory pick for 2007.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
corrosion said:
This statement was very accurate until he was demoted. After that, while not great, he started tackling much better.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
infantrycak said:
I pointed that out a while ago, and not a single person took notice of what I was saying.
It's just hard to believe this is the same guy who played for Miami. He was an all american cornerback. Had 44 tackes his sophmore year and 23 his junior year of which 15 were solo. Had a qb sack and two tackes for lossed in the 2002 rose bowl to help miami to the national championship. Runs a 4.31 forty. I say keep him for cheap and try to get him playing like a first round pick.
Okay, but what defense did they play at Miami U? Was it a defense that required discipline or did they just have superior athletes that used their individual talents?
For what it's worth, Hoke was on 610 this past week and he said the 4-3 would not affect the coverages that much. Of course, Fangio ran his defenses like a little girl so maybe some of the defenders took on his personality. It seems to me that it would be hard to be aggressive if you're always rushing four and sagging back.
I would give this guy another year, but draft another corner anyway. If PBuch has a great year he will be expensive in free agency anyway following the season, so either way you need depth.
For what it's worth, Hoke was on 610 this past week and he said the 4-3 would not affect the coverages that much. Of course, Fangio ran his defenses like a little girl so maybe some of the defenders took on his personality. It seems to me that it would be hard to be aggressive if you're always rushing four and sagging back.
I would give this guy another year, but draft another corner anyway. If PBuch has a great year he will be expensive in free agency anyway following the season, so either way you need depth.
HardKnockTexan
Rookie
Okay... like many Texan fans I was really excited when we got a young potential gamebreaking cornerback. Like many Texan fans I was dissapointed when he was consistantly picked on and burnt. His "oley" tackle on the goalline pretty much sealed the deal for me.
After halfway through the season I started to really try to pay attention to our defense. I'd check to see if we were in zone or man. I believe the main problem with P buc is that he cant play zone. Now that's not a good excuse for his piss poor play but I believe Fangio's system really held him back. A shut down corner needs to be in man-to-man. With his speed and leaping ability I believe that he can cover just about anyone in the league if he wants to. Zone requires a little more thought and deciplin which he is obviously lacking. If we can upgrade the saftey possition then we can put P Buc on an island and allow him to try and make plays. If we have someone who will make up for his mistakes (FS/SS) then I think he will be a decent #2 or nickly D-Back for us. Now there is a good chance I could be blinded by steel blue Texan pride... but we have him for another year.. and I want him to succeed for my team.
After halfway through the season I started to really try to pay attention to our defense. I'd check to see if we were in zone or man. I believe the main problem with P buc is that he cant play zone. Now that's not a good excuse for his piss poor play but I believe Fangio's system really held him back. A shut down corner needs to be in man-to-man. With his speed and leaping ability I believe that he can cover just about anyone in the league if he wants to. Zone requires a little more thought and deciplin which he is obviously lacking. If we can upgrade the saftey possition then we can put P Buc on an island and allow him to try and make plays. If we have someone who will make up for his mistakes (FS/SS) then I think he will be a decent #2 or nickly D-Back for us. Now there is a good chance I could be blinded by steel blue Texan pride... but we have him for another year.. and I want him to succeed for my team.
bdiddy
Waterboy
Alot will depend on what type of 4-3 scheme we run. For example, if we run the Tampa 2 (emphasis put on the two deep zone) I think Pbuc can be a good player. He is a good athlete that likes to gamble and thus needs safety help. If you look at a guy like Ronde Barber on the Bucs, he has has a number of very good years but he would be average at best if you put him in our scheme from the past two years. Pbuc needs to be a boundary corner on the short side of the field. Additionally, it would help if we do not have the philosophy of keeping Dunta or Pbuc on one given side (as the last staff did). DRob should play the opponents best WR regardless of whether that means lining up on the left or the right side.
OzzO
.. and then?
run-david-run said:
Raiders got a 2nd and 3rd from us. Looks like Stanford Routt (CB-Hou) and Andrew Walter (QB-Ari)
Porky
Hall of Fame
A4toZ said:
It's hard to compare because odds are we take neither guy, although Routt was a possibility. Let's just say we took Routt in round 2 to groom behind Glenn, and then in rd 3 we take a TE, Safety, olineman, etc. So, now you have to ask yourself would you rather have Pbuch, or Glenn, Routt and Mr X in the 3rd round.
How about signing Nate Clements? I think he is a FA this year, and he is an excellent cover corner. Then we can keep Pburnt as the nickel guy and see if he can be repaired. We can also ignore corner in the draft this year, at least until the late rounds if at all.
HardKnockTexan
Rookie
Porky said:
Getting Nate would be big time but I dont think that we'll have much pull in FA this season. A big reason, second to money, for a FA to go to a team is to win. As much as I hope we can turn things around quickly I doubt many big name free agents would be willing to put themselves in a situation that's so up in the air right now.
you know...i'm not a fan of philip buchanan...i think he's a worse tackler than deion sanders...funny thing is that was his idol...anyways...i do think in the right system buchanan can be a good corner...but it cannot be a man coverage defense it would have to be a zone scheme...and even then i'd like to see the texans bring in a day one pick at the corner position...i'm hoping for either cedric griffin or anwar phillips...both are 6'+ tall and both have great confidence in their abilities in both ball hawking and tackling
our team is still young, so lots of fans like to hold out hope for players to do well. We have forgotten what a bust is, and we wait and wait expecting something to make them plat better.
Buchanon has been through what, 3 coaching staffs? he was horrible in all of them. A team with the WORST defense in the league traded away their rd1 cb that they have had for 2 years, other teams wouldnt give up a 3rd for him. WE GAVE UP A 2ND ANNNNNND 3RD! WARNING WARNING HES NOT GOOD
we've seen posts about Hollings just not getting a fair chance
Joppru doesnt have injury problems, hes just unlucky
Pbuc just needs a new coach, that will teach him how to actually play football.
Buchanon has been through what, 3 coaching staffs? he was horrible in all of them. A team with the WORST defense in the league traded away their rd1 cb that they have had for 2 years, other teams wouldnt give up a 3rd for him. WE GAVE UP A 2ND ANNNNNND 3RD! WARNING WARNING HES NOT GOOD
we've seen posts about Hollings just not getting a fair chance
Joppru doesnt have injury problems, hes just unlucky
Pbuc just needs a new coach, that will teach him how to actually play football.
well he won't be getting a new coach...jon hoke is still gonna be the db's coach...i think he needs a new system...and a new attitude but i think we'll keep him this season due to a need of talent when facing indy...face it we dont' have that great of talent in the defensive backfield...d-rob is good although he had a sophomore slump...both earl and brown are really unproven...as far as faggins, buchanan, and sanders are concerned...all are probably more suited as nickelbacks...we'll need all the help we can get
HardKnockTexan
Rookie
keyfro said:
It looked to me that P Buc was lost in zone coverage last season. Now I dont have access to game film but time after time when he was picked on it looked as if he was covering a zone instead of man to man... could be wrong though.
latim06800
Practice Squad
Mark my word...Barring any injury of course...Phillip Buchanon will excell next year as he will be given the ability to play man on man versus that zone defense crap we ran last year...He is not a zone corner...He excells at taking risk and going for interceptions, not playing conservative and laying a lick on the WR....He is not a physical corner...
A4toZ said:
It wasn't so much who they got, but rather it was about who we could have chosen. Kevin Burnett, Lofa Tatupu (we all know his impact), and Odell Thurman were all great LBs that were taken just after Routt. If we wanted a CB, there was Corey Webster, Darrent Williams (who some analysts have said played at a probowl level this year), and Bryant McFadden. Right now I'd take any of those corners over PBuc.
3rd round? How about Ellis Hobbs who had an outstanding rookie year for the Pats?
The trade just wasn't good no matter how you look at it.
bigTEXan8
Rookie
I'd like to see him come back this upcoming year rejuvinated. I hope he takes this off-season and looks upon what he has to do to keep his butt in the NFL. P-Buch is a better man-to-man CB than he is a zone CB. P-Buch's speed was taken away from him when all they played was zone. Plus, the lack of a pass-rush didn't help any of our secondary in 2005. I feel that if we play more man-to-man this upcoming year, I say he proves he's a better CB than we all think. JM
Ok, let's say you are correct. He has a pretty good 2006. Do we try to resign @ a very high rate or allow him to be signed away as free agent and get a draft pick? Some of the things I read here sound like Carr: not his fault, wrong scheme, etc. Most folks seem to want to give PB another year but not David. hmmm.latim06800 said:
TreWardTxn
Waterboy
bigTEXan8 said:I'd like to see him come back this upcoming year rejuvinated. I hope he takes this off-season and looks upon what he has to do to keep his butt in the NFL. P-Buch is a better man-to-man CB than he is a zone CB. P-Buch's speed was taken away from him when all they played was zone. Plus, the lack of a pass-rush didn't help any of our secondary in 2005. I feel that if we play more man-to-man this upcoming year, I say he proves he's a better CB than we all think. JM
A guy with his speed and ability to change direction should be devestating in a zone as it should allow him to cover large portions of the field. The problem with Buchannon is that he has no instincts for zone and is always out of position. On top of that he doesn't WANT to tackle anyone and even when in man, tries to sit on routes, routinely giving up big plays. He's had 4 years to prove he was worth the top 20 pick he garnered when he came into the league, at best, it looks likes he's the next T Buck, the BPA when you need a guy to fill a hole at CB or to play in the nickel...
S
SESupergenius
Guest
I was under the impression that Buchanon was going to come in and be our nickel guy and MAYBE push Glenn for a starting slot. Then somehow the whole thing imploded and Buchanon is given, (now mark my word Carr haters because you always like the throw out that Carr was "given" the QB position), yes "given" the starting LCB slot. It didn't take long for Texans fans to realize what almost every knowledgable NFL fan already knew, Buchanon was soft and a clubhouse cancer. Now the question becomes, can he still be that nickel? I say yes, but once you have cancer, it's almost impossible to get rid of, and Buchanon has cancer written all over him.
bigTEXan8
Rookie
TreWardTxn said:
I agree. That's why I think that if the Texans played a more man-on-man D, his skills would be more visible. To me, he just seemed uncomfortable all season playing in that zone. And, to be fair, no one in the Texans' secondary really stood up and shouted this year.
Buchanan was the worst CB we have had. Unlike popular belief he is not a good man to man corner. He does not do well in zone coverage nor is he a good tackler. I watched him alot last year and I personally don't think that it is scheme or technique, it's his talent. Our only hope defensively is that we somehow get another corner and throw Buchanan into the Nickle/Dime mix where he has smaller areas to cover and can close on the ball faster. Charlie Weiss said offensive football is easy, you find the other teams worst player and keep going after him. It happened ALOT last season.
hot pickle
Canada Eh
well champ bailey didnt have a very good 2004 season with the broncos his first year, and this past year he turned it around and put of some of the best stats for a corner in the NFL, and i know buchanon is no were near champ bailey quality but maybe he can turn it around and be a productive corner, so we will have to wait and see.
and whats gonna happen to coleman?
I think he should stick with the team but have him a C.C. alternating, and see wich one is better, what do you think?
and whats gonna happen to coleman?
I think he should stick with the team but have him a C.C. alternating, and see wich one is better, what do you think?
P_Buchanon
Practice Squad
Let´s just hope that phillip does anything in the offseason to be a better tackler and give him the chance to get the 2nd starting corner beside dunta... i trust in him, cause of his speed... he just needs more experience in the game!!!! Just sit down and wait what he will show us next season 