Payne coming back to Houston

[texanfan2002114]

according to www.houstonprofootball.com


Texans Bringing Back the Payne!

Seth Payne and Kiefer Sutherland both know just how much can change in 24 hours.

After conversations on Tuesday between the Texans and the agent for Payne produced no agreement, the defensive tackle was planning trips to several destinations, including Cleveland and New Orleans among others, to find employment elsewhere.

All that changed Wednesday afternoon though, as Payne agreed to a new four-year contract with the Texans. According to ESPN.com, the agreement will be worth a total $16 million, including a $4.5 million bonus. The webiste claims Payne might have been spurred to sign the deal after learning the Texans were near a deal with former Bills nose tackle Pat Williams.

Payne, 30, is recovering from surgery to repair two hamstrings, and while he is expected to be ready for the 2005 season, his risk for future injury may have been a deterrent for the Texans to offer him a contract earlier. Following a valiant return to the playing field last year after multiple knee surgeries, Payne contributed 51 tackles and 2 sacks to a strengthing Texan defense.

 

[Tailgate]

If this is true... then how about a FULL FREAKING SEASON from this guy. We are such a better team with him healthy and full force. Lets see it this year.

 

[ThaShark316]

I don't know why I'm feeling iffy about Payne coming back...hopefully he's healthy.

 

[Grid]

4 frickin million per year. oi-vay.

If we sign dayne then that will be our free agency splash. WOOO WE GOT STACY MACK part II!

 

[Tailgate]

4 frickin million per year. oi-vay.

If we sign dayne then that will be our free agency splash. WOOO WE GOT STACY MACK part II!

I can swallow the 4 million thing if Payne stays HEALTHY all year. BTW.. does anyone know what type of recovery he is looking at for the Hamstring injury? Ready for mini camp? Training camp? Reg Season?

I also see ZERO reason to sign Ron Dayne. We got enough running backs. Lets keep focusing on the trenches... and maybe a wr..Kevin Johnson if we can get a good deal.

 

[infantrycak]

BTW.. does anyone know what type of recovery he is looking at for the Hamstring injury? Ready for mini camp? Training camp? Reg Season?

Gary Walker had the same surgery after the completion of his 2001 season and recovered to have a pro-bowl 2002 season.

 

[Tailgate]

Gary Walker had the same surgery after the completion of his 2001 season and recovered to have a pro-bowl 2002 season.

Wow. Maybe Gary needs to "injure" his Hamstring again this offseason. Then well have TWO pro bowlers on the DL!! :woot

Ok, that wasnt funny.

 

[Sarg01]

4 frickin million per year. oi-vay.

You're focused on the wrong number. Payne will represent 3-3.5 million against our cap this year and 3.5-4.5 million next year. Then he'll either have made a full recovery and be the great NT he was in the expansion year, restructure to a lower number or be released after June 1 (1.13 cap hit - trivial as far as these deals go).

For comparison, Jamie Sharper represents 6.13m against our cap this year. Aaron Glenn is 5.17m. Seth will probably be a little less than the cap hit of Steve McKinney and a bit more than that of Zach Wiegart. Payne's cap number LAST year was 4.17m

The Texans left themselves plenty of room to get out in case Seth is done after this year.

 

[Grid]

I was still thinking numbers in the 2 mil range would be more fitting.

ahh well.. we will just have to see what happens.. if he stays healthy he is worth it.

 

[Alex]

I don't understand why the Texans let go their deal with Pat Williams to resign Seth Payne for about the same amount of money ....

Payne's deal is 4 years/16 millions (average of 4) and Pat Williams deal with Vikings (according KFFL) is 3 years/13 millions (average of 4.3 mil.). Personally I really think that Williams would be better than Payne in a 3-4 scheme.

P.S. Sorry for the gramatical mistakes, I'm from Quebec, Canada....

 

[Vinny]

Looks like 3 years and a 6 million dollar bonus for Williams.

Vikings | Williams Agrees to Three-Year Deal - from www.KFFL.com
Wed, 2 Mar 2005 17:42:03 -0800

Jay Glazer, of FOXSports.com, reports the Minnesota Vikings have signed free agent DT Pat Williams (Bills) to a three-year, $13 million contract including $6 million in bonus money. The deal also includes incentives that could eventually reach $15 million

 

[UberDork]

I like the move. I would guess that is about as low as we could go monetarily and not get ourself into a potential bind later on if we missed on a few guys at NT. I don't know how the contract is laid out, but I hope the guaranteed money is paid sooner rather than later. I was hoping Payne would come back for a year or two because I really like a few NT prospects in the 2006 draft.

 

[edo783]

4 mill does seem a tad stong for a guy coming off of two injured seasons. I like the guy and when he is able to play at his best he is more than worth what we are paying. Just another roll of the dice on an injured player by CC. Hope it doesn't come back to haunt us like Walker has.

 

[texansfan88]

we were close to a deal with Williams? one of the best run stuffers in the league? and we didn't do it? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[keyfro]

well...all i know about payne's injury is this...he says he'll be ready by training camp...but knowing the texans organization and the way we slowly bring back starters he'll probably be going full speed by pre-season...i too think pat williams would have been the better option but who knows what kind of injuries he has suffered lately...and maybe just maybe pat williams character doesn't fit the other guys in the lockerroom...all in all payne knows the system and when he's fully healthy he's damn good in it...i'm just glad we're not going into the draft without a NT

 

[Sarg01]

I was still thinking numbers in the 2 mil range would be more fitting.

ahh well.. we will just have to see what happens.. if he stays healthy he is worth it.

Depending how backloaded the contract is, it's not impossible the number this year might be less then 3 mil.

My wild-guess estimated salaries were 2.25, 3.25, 4.75 and 5.75, which would be a little less backloaded than the "standard" NFL contracts. The more backloaded the salary, the more likely Payne is cut/restructured in 2 years, but his cap number for the next two years is reduced as a result.

 

[nunusguy]

I would rather have DeLoach than Payne, straight up. He's younger and
doesn't have the injury baggage that Seth has. Whatever DeLoach gets with us or elsewhere, be interesting to see how that deal compares to Seth's deal.

 

[Sarg01]

I don't understand why the Texans let go their deal with Pat Williams to resign Seth Payne for about the same amount of money ....

Payne's deal is 4 years/16 millions (average of 4) and Pat Williams deal with Vikings (according KFFL) is 3 years/13 millions (average of 4.3 mil.). Personally I really think that Williams would be better than Payne in a 3-4 scheme.

P.S. Sorry for the gramatical mistakes, I'm from Quebec, Canada....

It's the roughly same amount of money assuming Williams and Payne both play out their contracts. However, the Vikings will take a bigger cap hit if they have to release Williams in less then 3 years - Given the contract numbers you mention, I'd estimate he'll be about 7-7.5 million on the Vikings cap that year (worse if he makes any incentives) and be 35 years old, so the Vikings may very well regret their choice.

 

[Alex]

Personally I would like to see Williams in the middle of the Texans D-Line. But if the money saved can help the Texans to bring a good WR like Travis Taylor or Kevin Johnson I think that it's a good move. And I don't know why the Texans negociate with Ron Dayne Even he is a good 3rd down RB I believe that the Texans have already a good "Power RB" in J.Wells. I also think that the Texans must pursue a good safety like Ronnie Heard or Idrees Bashir. Eric Brown is a good hard hitter but not really a playmaker and I don't know if he is recovered at 100 % of his injury...

 

[Vinny]

And I don't know why the Texans negociate with Ron Dayne Even he is a good 3rd down RB I believe that the Texans have already a good "Power RB" in J.Wells. I also think that the Texans must pursue a good safety like Ronnie Heard or Idrees Bashir. Eric Brown is a good hard hitter but not really a playmaker and I don't know if he is recovered at 100 % of his injury...

The Dayne rumor was just a rumor from what I gather so they may not have been in negotiations with him. Eric Brown doesn't start at SS anymore. There is a guy named Glenn Earl who took over the job last year.

 

[Sarg01]

Eric Brown is a good hard hitter but not really a playmaker and I don't know if he is recovered at 100 % of his injury...

I think you can pretty much book that Glenn Earl is our starting Strong Safety at this point, barring injury.

 

[michaelm]

Wow. Maybe Gary needs to "injure" his Hamstring again this offseason. Then well have TWO pro bowlers on the DL!! :woot

Ok, that wasnt funny.

Don't sell yourself short... it actually was pretty funny!

Of course, I've been drinking...

haHA!

 

[Alex]

I know who Glenn Earl is but I didn't thinked that he wins his place on the starting lineup.... I still think that Ronnie Heard can be a good signing.

Also the Texans pursue UFA Linebacker Morlon Greenwood who make 101 tackles last year. I don't know why the Texans want another linebacker even they have Babin, Wong and Peek outside
Maybe to take Kailee Wong place next year when he will become UFA

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3065660

 

[Rosusu]

As long as Payne can stay healthy I think he is a good sign. I still wouldnt mind drafting a linemen or two.

 

[Vinny]

Walker has been to the Pro Bowl as a Texan. He just needs to come back healthy. I think his injuries hampered his play last year. I look for him to bounce back strong in 2005

 

[Rosusu]

Walker has been to the Pro Bowl as a Texan. He just needs to come back healthy. I think his injuries hampered his play last year. I look for him to bounce back strong in 2005

I think he is just getting older and loosing a step or two. I dont expect him to get any better.

 

[Vinny]

Quality 2-gap linemen generally have long careers. He doesn't need to get any better. Just play up to his potential and get back some of that explosiveness that he lost with the hamstring issues. Walker was in the Pro Bowl two years ago and isn't finished.

 

[gg no re]

I know who Glenn Earl is but I didn't thinked that he wins his place on the starting lineup.... I still think that Ronnie Heard can be a good signing.

Also the Texans pursue UFA Linebacker Morlon Greenwood who make 101 tackles last year. I don't know why the Texans want another linebacker even they have Babin, Wong and Peek outside
Maybe to take Kailee Wong place next year when he will become UFA

Glenn Earl is still getting up to full speed from his knee injury..... look at Edgerrin and McGahee.... it took them 1-1.5 years to get back to 100%.... so next season, we will see what Earl can really do....

As for taking another LB, Texans are looking at Morlon as an ILB to pair with Sharper. Even said so in the article.

 

[Rosusu]

I agree he is not finished but I dont think he will ever play the way he played two years ago. IMO

 

[Ranger]

I don't know about yall, but I would want to be giving Pat Williams 4 mil a year instead of Seth Payne. I can't beleive we were close to making a deal with Pat and then said all of a sudden......."Oh well hey Seth we are close to getting your replacement, but do you wanna come back?" Maybe the Texans doctors know more about his rehabitation than I do or they have unbeleivable faith in him, but I don't think I would be taking this risk on him. I would go with the sure thing in Pat Williams. But then again who knows. Pat could get injured the first day of training camp and be out for the season and Payne could go to the Pro Bowl. You never know.

 

[gg no re]

FAs are not always a sure thing. Very rarely will big name acquisitions make a huge impact immediately.

Aside from Trotter and Staley, no other big name FA made a positive difference [that I can think of....]

I think the resigning of Payne is a smart move.... although he is not the best player at the position, it is better to keep a player nearing a decline who knows the system, rather than overpay for a player who's also near the decline but has to learn the system.

 

[infantrycak]

I would rather have DeLoach than Payne, straight up. He's younger and
doesn't have the injury baggage that Seth has. Whatever DeLoach gets with us or elsewhere, be interesting to see how that deal compares to Seth's deal.

Other than the injury issue, DeLoach isn't close to the player Payne is. The drop across the front 7 is obvious when Payne has not been in/up to full speed. DeLoach holds his ground--Payne pushes back the pocket, may not get the QB but creates the problem Carr has, no pocket to step into so players from the perimeter get a better chance to make a play.

 

[SESupergenius]

Vikings signed Pat Williams DT to a three-year, $13 million contract including $6 million in bonus money. The deal also includes incentives that could eventually reach $15 million.

That is a ton of bonus money compared to what Payne got, I like the decision by the Texans, we may have overpaid slightly for Payne, but he knows our system already and IO guess the prognosis is good. We still go after a DL in the draft.

If we can go after 1 big name (ie Burress) and sign a few average ones we would be sitting pretty.

 

[michaelm]

Aside from Trotter and Staley, no other big name FA made a positive difference [that I can think of....]
.

If you're refering to last season...

Owens!!!!!!!!!!
Dillon
Feely.... er, no...
Brunell...

Ok, for the most part your point is taken , but there were some hat made a difference

 

[BornOrange]

Payne is also a bit younger than Williams.

Payne just turned 30 in February, while Williams is 32.5 years old and will turn 33 in October.

 

[BornOrange]

Owens and Dillon were not free agents last year.

They were both acquired via trade.

 

[gg no re]

If you're refering to last season...

Owens!!!!!!!!!!
Dillon
Feely.... er, no...
Brunell...

Ok, for the most part your point is taken , but there were some hat made a difference

I want to say Owens and Dillon, but they were trades for the most part....

Oh well, there is always the Brunells, Warners, and Garcias to offset the cream of the crop.

 

[bckey]

Gary Walker had the same surgery after the completion of his 2001 season and recovered to have a pro-bowl 2002 season.

And then he had the worst season of his career in 2003.

I think we over paid for Payne after the last 2 years he had. I like Payne and I think most Texan fans do but it boils down to what have you done for me lately. The last 2 years the answer is not much. So we are signing him based on what he did prior to those 2 years hoping he can get back to that level. I'll say one thing. The Texans don't shy away from signing injured players.

 

[rittenhouserobz]

And then he had the worst season of his career in 2003.

I think we over paid for Payne after the last 2 years he had. I like Payne and I think most Texan fans do but it boils down to what have you done for me lately. The last 2 years the answer is not much. So we are signing him based on what he did prior to those 2 years hoping he can get back to that level. I'll say one thing. The Texans don't shy away from signing injured players.

Paynes trouble all started, because of a terrible playing surface in NO. He was still in a rehabilitation stage during last year. This coming year I believe we will see the powerful Payne destroying the opposing OL. Just keep up the faith and believe he can be that player again.

 

[tom1354788]

I was just thinking about how i hope Payne's deal is structured, im hoping that its not hugely back loaded like it may be. Im thinking while we have the cap room its better to average it out as much as possible, I cant see him being round for the full 4 years, I see us drafting a NT this year or next, to take over from payne, in which case when we cut him we wont have as much dead money counting on the cap in a few years time.

i have never really understood back loading contracts (for veterans, diffrent for young players), apart from the motivation standpoint, why would you wanna pay more for a player when the chances are his play has droped off.

i realise that he will never be paid his 4th year wage, either being restructured or cut, but personally i hate the effect of dead money, look whta it has done to teams like the titans!

 

[infantrycak]

And then he had the worst season of his career in 2003.

Nice job of jumping a post. I was responding to a question about the prognosis for recovery for the injury Payne just had. And Walker's injuries in 2003 were completely different--turf toe and a shoulder injury. Frankly I think last year was the worst of Walker's career--he was actually on the field and not producing as opposed to unable to play.

 

[bckey]

Paynes trouble all started, because of a terrible playing surface in NO. He was still in a rehabilitation stage during last year. This coming year I believe we will see the powerful Payne destroying the opposing OL. Just keep up the faith and believe he can be that player again.

I hope so. He is one of the most liked players on the Texans team. Just before he was injured the first time he looked like a monster out there. I think he would have had a pro bowl year.

 

[TexanBacker93]

Payne had a great year for the Texans. He missed all but a few plays of the last game so it isn't like they lost him for the whole season. At least he's out injured with real injuries (Torn ACL, Torn Hamstring insertions). I'd rather have that than the dreaded day to day turf toe that lost last year for Walker.

Payne is one of the better 2 gap linemen in the league.

 

[bckey]

Nice job of jumping a post. I was responding to a question about the prognosis for recovery for the injury Payne just had. And Walker's injuries in 2003 were completely different--turf toe and a shoulder injury. Frankly I think last year was the worst of Walker's career--he was actually on the field and not producing as opposed to unable to play.

I wasn't jumping a post. I was just pointing out that right after that pro bowl year Walker had he had his worst year. And we are paying Walker big $. Hopefully he will have a better year this year since we are keeping the same dl.

 

[JustBonee]

I thought it was funny how Payne pretty much went under the radar in 2002. He was the glue of that defense. No one talked about him. He was the invisible man .. then the injuries, and everyone realized the huge role he had played.

 

[TexanBacker93]

FAs are not always a sure thing. Very rarely will big name acquisitions make a huge impact immediately.

Aside from Trotter and Staley, no other big name FA made a positive difference [that I can think of....]

I think the resigning of Payne is a smart move.... although he is not the best player at the position, it is better to keep a player nearing a decline who knows the system, rather than overpay for a player who's also near the decline but has to learn the system.

Kearse had a pretty good year in Philly.

 

[gg no re]

Yeah I just remembered that.... man, even in the offseason, Kearse gets no love.....

 

[brickmantexanfan]

In The Words Of Clubber Lang My Prediction For The 2005 Season Of Our Opponents."payne!"

 

[Hervoyel]

Walker has been to the Pro Bowl as a Texan. He just needs to come back healthy. I think his injuries hampered his play last year. I look for him to bounce back strong in 2005

I expect 2002-esq seasons from Walker and Payne this coming year. Barring injury I think they can both be forces on the line and will be for a couple more years. So many people were ready to see Payne hit the door and seem to want Walker gone as well but that is IMO a mistake. Unfortunate injuries at bad times have combined to make these two look like they're no longer quality starters.

If that's over and they stay healthy then these are two linemen capable of dominating. There's a reason we took them both in the expansion draft and it was because they were legitimate starting players who fit what we wanted to do here and who had years left. Understanding that seems to have been lost over the last two seasons.

 

[Sarg01]

I... im hoping that its not hugely back loaded like it may be. Im thinking while we have the cap room its better to average it out as much as possible, I cant see him being round for the full 4 years, ... in which case when we cut him we wont have as much dead money counting on the cap in a few years time ...

Dead money comes from signing bonus, not salary. Payne's signing bonus is very small. If you agree he won't play 4 more years under this contract, then the ideal scenario for the Texans would actually BE a massively backloaded contract. Regardless of front-loading, even-payout or back-loading. Payne's cap hit (assuming the published details of the signing are accurate, of course) will be precisely 1.125 million per year remaining on his contract if he were to be cut. Thus, if we cut him in 3 years, his 4th year cap hit will be 1.125m of dead money. The more he is scheduled to make in yr 4, the lower the cap number will be in yrs 1-3.