Patriots under investigation

[Sigma]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/the...lating-footballs-during-afc-championship-game

The Patriots are under investigation for deflating footballs during AFC Championship game

The NFL is investigating whether the New England Patriots used under-inflated footballs in Sunday’s AFC championship game win against the Indianapolis Colts.
An under-inflated football would be easier to grip, and therefore easier to throw and catch, especially in adverse weather conditions.
NFL footballs are required to be inflated with 12.5-13.5 pounds of air, and home teams must give all game balls to the league two hours and 15 minutes prior to kickoff to be inspected.
According to the WHTR report, if the league confirms the balls were deflated, the Patriots could lose future draft picks.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...king-into-pats-possible-use-of-deflated-balls

NFL looking into Pats' possible use of deflated balls

The New England Patriots find themselves amidst another controversy following their 45-7 pummeling of the Indianapolis Colts.
In advance of Super Bowl XLIX, there will be plenty talk about "DeflateGate".

Oh man, I can't wait for all the "talk about the 'DeflateGate' "

 

[thunderkyss]

Already mentioned in the Belicheat thread

 

[Sigma]

Already mentioned in the Belicheat thread

Sorry, I've read a bit of that thread and thought it was about the eligibility "issue".

Feel free to merge/delete

 

[Playoffs]

Bob Kravitz @BobKravitz

Breaking: A league source tells me the NFL is investigating the possibility the Patriots deflated footballs Sunday night. More to come. I'm told at one point the officials took a ball out of play and weighed it. Should hear more tomorrow on this subject.

Didn't have a chance to talk to Colts officials about this. They were long gone when I heard this.

Nobody is suggesting this is why the Colts lost, obviously. They were manhandled. Told if a league investigation confirms deflated footballs it will result in lost draft picks. Stay tuned.

As to the veracity of this report, here's how footballs are provided and tested for games, from the NFL's official rule book...

The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.

Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game.

These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.

In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the Commissioner.

In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center.

The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).

Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field.​

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/19/nfl-investigate-patriots-deflating-footballs-afc-championship-game

Trent Dilfer said on The Herd/ESPN that teams "doctor" footballs submitted for play to suit their QB's preferences. He dislike the waxy surface, so balls were put in a clothes dryer and rubbed out then rubbed with dirt. Eli Manning prefers high/sharp laces, so balls without those would be culled.

 

[Playoffs]

Also interesting tidbit tagged onto the end of this:

FOXBOROUGH -- Here we go, again.

In 2012, the USC Trojans, under coach Lane Kiffin, were reprimanded for deflating balls at a USC-Oregon game. The team was fined and a student manager was fired after the Pac-12 finding.

 

[Blake]

"New England Patriots are going for their fourth asterisk."

 

[Texecutioner]

"New England Patriots are going for their fourth asterisk."

Make up whatever you want, but their SB wins, appearances, and their winning records are going nowhere. Root for your team and stop being jealous of teams who are consistently successful. Beat them.

 

[Double Barrel]

Make up whatever you want, but their SB wins, appearances, and their winning records are going nowhere. Root for your team and stop being jealous of teams who are consistently successful. Beat them.

yeah, I don't get it. The Patriots have been a consistent dynasty for the past 14 seasons when it was said that dynasties could never exist again due to rule changes and free agency.

I get the hatred of them. Consistent success always brings that contrary view in some folks. But, I do not understand the inability to be objective in analysis of pro football. The hatred becomes blinders that only allow some folks to see what they want to see.

Love them, hate them, whatever, but if you're honest you'll respect them.

 

[Texecutioner]

yeah, I don't get it. The Patriots have been a consistent dynasty for the past 14 seasons when it was said that dynasties could never exist again due to rule changes and free agency.

I get the hatred of them. Consistent success always brings that contrary view in some folks. But, I do not understand the inability to be objective in analysis of pro football. The hatred becomes blinders that only allow some folks to see what they want to see.

Love them, hate them, whatever, but if you're honest you'll respect them.

I like all of the tricky stuff that BB does. I'd want my coach to look for every possible way to deflect the other from seeing things we're doing to get an edge as long as it is legal of course.

People can bring up stuff like Spygate, but the patriots have been to 3 SB's now since then and been in the AFC championship game pretty much every year since then. The only times they weren't were the years where Brady was gone for the entire year, the next year when he wasn't fully himself, and that year that the Jets beat them. So, 8 out of the last 10 years since their last SB victory the Patriots went to the AFC championship game or better in this day of free agency with tons of different skill players on their offense in that span. Pretty incredible.

 

[Pollardized]

Bill Belichick sitting in his office like, "you wanna weigh my balls????"

 

[Playoffs]

What was interesting was from Adam Schefter's report was the Colts intercepted Brady twice in their first game vs. Patriots and both felt flatter than normal and they alerted the NFL.

Brady threw another interception in this playoff game and it was again flatter than usual so they submitted it to an official. The thing is, there weren't any under-inflated balls that Colts QB Andrew Luck got his hands on.

The issue is if there's even a perception of inequality/advantage.

 

[thunderkyss]

Bill Belichick sitting in his office like, "you wanna weigh my balls????"

I bet Belichick & Jack Nicholson hang out regularly.

Something just makes me think they'd get each other.

 

[Pollardized]

I bet Belichick & Jack Nicholson hang out regularly.

Something just makes me think they'd get each other.

I get Bill Belichick.

 

[thunderkyss]

I get Bill Belichick.

 

[Sigma]

What was interesting was from Adam Schefter's report was the Colts intercepted Brady twice in their first game vs. Patriots and both felt flatter than normal and they alerted the NFL.

Brady threw another interception in this playoff game and it was again flatter than usual so they submitted it to an official. The thing is, there weren't any under-inflated balls that Colts QB Andrew Luck got his hands on.

The issue is if there's even a perception of inequality/advantage.

If I had to guess I'd say they have 2 sets of footballs, those inflated at the max (regular) level and those inflated at the min (regular) level

give the less inflated to yout offence and the more inflated to the colts

If they are within the limits and there are no rules about that, I guess it would be regular

People would still whine, but that's what people do

 

[bah007]

I'm a little fuzzy on how this works at the NFL level, but at lower levels teams generally bring their own balls to the game, and they are checked by the referees prior to kickoff.

You have some balls inflated to the maximum level for special teams, because the fully inflated ball will travel farther when kicked.

Then you have other balls for offense that are inflated to the level preferred by the QB and Center, as long as that level is in between the minimum and maximum level required. Most QBs prefer that the ball not be inflated to the max because it makes it harder to grip. But if it's not inflated enough it will fly like a wounded duck when you throw it.

I said all that to say this, I don't think it should matter how much NE wants to inflate their footballs. Indy doesn't have to use them. They have their own to use that they can inflate to whatever level they want.

But, if it's a rule it's a rule. And it sounds like NE's footballs checked out when they were inspected before the game, and then they removed air after the inspection. The way they would have had to handle that is just shady in itself, so if they get penalized they deserve it. It's not like this could happen on accident.

 

[Sigma]

I'm a little fuzzy on how this works at the NFL level, but at lower levels teams generally bring their own balls to the game, and they are checked by the referees prior to kickoff.

You have some balls inflated to the maximum level for special teams, because the fully inflated ball will travel farther when kicked.

Then you have other balls for offense that are inflated to the level preferred by the QB and Center, as long as that level is in between the minimum and maximum level required. Most QBs prefer that the ball not be inflated to the max because it makes it harder to grip. But if it's not inflated enough it will fly like a wounded duck when you throw it.

I said all that to say this, I don't think it should matter how much NE wants to inflate their footballs. Indy doesn't have to use them. They have their own to use that they can inflate to whatever level they want.

But, if it's a rule it's a rule. And it sounds like NE's footballs checked out when they were inspected before the game, and then they removed air after the inspection. The way they would have had to handle that is just shady in itself, so if they get penalized they deserve it. It's not like this could happen on accident.

that's true, but how could you check that?

I mean, if you weigh them now (that time is passed) they could have deflated for other reasons

 

[thunderkyss]

that's true, but how could you check that?

I mean, if you weigh them now (that time is passed) they could have deflated for other reasons

If it makes enough of a difference, that a defensive player can feel it when they intercepted a ball, I don't know how the referees don't noticed when they're shuffling balls in & out of play.

Even if the Patriots deflated one ball, they have no control on when that ball gets put in play. The referees are always swapping them in & out of the game that I don't see how one ball can create an advantage.

 

[Dread-Head]

again?

 

[infantrycak]

that's true, but how could you check that?

I mean, if you weigh them now (that time is passed) they could have deflated for other reasons

There was a report out about them being checked out during or immediately after the game. The statement was made that it is not uncommon at all for A ball to test out of spec (which is a very narrow 1 psi band) in a game but that in this instance an unspecified "several" were found to be low. So what they are investigating is not whether they were low but how several came to be that way.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Belicheck is a doosh, but the Colts just shat the bed. 1 psi didn't put a 40 burger up on them. The Colts front 7 is one of the worst in the league and that's got to make Pagano pissed

The Texans, with their crappy QB, could've put up a much better game than that.

 

[Blake]

Make up whatever you want, but their SB wins, appearances, and their winning records are going nowhere. Root for your team and stop being jealous of teams who are consistently successful. Beat them.

I'm not making up anything. Someone posted that somewhere on the interwebs so I quoted it because it was funny.

yeah, I don't get it. The Patriots have been a consistent dynasty for the past 14 seasons when it was said that dynasties could never exist again due to rule changes and free agency.

I get the hatred of them. Consistent success always brings that contrary view in some folks. But, I do not understand the inability to be objective in analysis of pro football. The hatred becomes blinders that only allow some folks to see what they want to see.

Love them, hate them, whatever, but if you're honest you'll respect them.

I assume you are partly responding to me since you quoted someone who was responding to my comment.

I have respect for the organization as a whole. They have key people in key places making big things happen for them. What I do not respect is when these people who are already at the top of their game use questionable to downright illegal tactics to gain an unfair advantage.

Just play the game the right way, and if you are truly the best, you should win. No need to try and cheat to win. Makes you look morally corrupt. Dynasty or not.

 

[Playoffs]

SI: Deflated footballs just latest corner Belichick's Pats accused of cutting

Did the Patriots really illegally deflate footballs in the AFC Championship Game, as the NFL is investigating? Well, put it this way: There have been a lot of unbelievable NFL stories this season.

This is not one of them.

This? This is totally believable. Around the NFL, people wait for stories like this to come out of New England. They wonder when Bill Belichick’s team will get nailed again. This is not as simple as saying, "Hey, they got caught for SpyGate!" It runs deeper than that.

The Patriots are suspected of cutting so many corners, their home field should be an oval. It starts in the parking lot, extends to the locker room, goes right to the field of play, and makes opponents look all over Gillette Stadium, wondering what Belichick will pull next.

Let’s start with the allegation at hand, first reported by Bob Kravitz of WTHR in Indianapolis. Obviously, the Patriots did not whip the Colts because of the air in the football. The Colts were overmatched. But the question is not whether Belichick needed to cheat. It’s whether he did, and could.

Generally, the home team...

Might be some reaches in there.

 

[CretorFrigg]

The Patriots cheat? Shocker.

 

[thunderkyss]

The Patriots cheat? Shocker.

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

 

[Double Barrel]

I'm not making up anything. Someone posted that somewhere on the interwebs so I quoted it because it was funny.



I assume you are partly responding to me since you quoted someone who was responding to my comment.

I have respect for the organization as a whole. They have key people in key places making big things happen for them. What I do not respect is when these people who are already at the top of their game use questionable to downright illegal tactics to gain an unfair advantage.

Just play the game the right way, and if you are truly the best, you should win. No need to try and cheat to win. Makes you look morally corrupt. Dynasty or not.

Do you think less of the San Francisco 49er's dynasty of the '80's because of this story?

Bill Parcells still thinks Bill Walsh cheated during 1980s playoffs

How about the Cowboys dynasty in the early '90's?

Jimmy Johnson Admits To Cheating

What about the Steelers dynasty in the '70's?

Steelers dynasty should get asterisk if juice story is true

Do we just asterisk any team that wins Super Bowls and gets blamed for something? Where does it end?

Every team is looking for a competitive advantage. Most do not get caught in the gray area. The successful ones have more exposure, so it stands to reason that they get accused more.

As far as "morally corrupt", it's football. You do realize what often happens on the field, yeah? Let's not put pro athletes on pedestals as shining beacons of moral purity. That would be detached from reality.

 

[Blake]

Do you think less of the San Francisco 49er's dynasty of the '80's because of this story?

Bill Parcells still thinks Bill Walsh cheated during 1980s playoffs

How about the Cowboys dynasty in the early '90's?

Jimmy Johnson Admits To Cheating

What about the Steelers dynasty in the '70's?

Steelers dynasty should get asterisk if juice story is true

Do we just asterisk any team that wins Super Bowls and gets blamed for something? Where does it end?

Every team is looking for a competitive advantage. Most do not get caught in the gray area. The successful ones have more exposure, so it stands to reason that they get accused more.

Dude you are really reaching here. 2 of your 3 comparisons (if you want to call them that) are speculation. The Pats have been accused and confirmed of cheating.

As far as "morally corrupt", it's football. You do realize what often happens on the field, yeah? Let's not put pro athletes on pedestals as shining beacons of moral purity. That would be detached from reality.

So I call an organization morally corrupt and you spew out this garbage about me putting players on pedestals as shining beacons of moral purity? Good grief. Talk about a straw man argument...

I dont like any NFL team cheating. Whats so wrong with that? Why do you feel the need defend the Pats with the "ALL TEAMS DO IT!!" defense?

Hey selling drugs is bad, but others do it too, so its ok!

 

[Playoffs]

Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport

NFL has no comment at this time and Patriots say they will continue to cooperate with the investigation. More on SportsCenter.

NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.

That's 11 of 12 game balls.

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora

As NFL investigates Deflate-gate would be wise to speak to Ravens. Some there believe kicking balls used in their playoff game underinflated

 

[Playoffs]

Jerry Rice ‏@JerryRice

11 of 12 balls under-inflated can anyone spell cheating!!! #JustSaying

Some Ravens believe kicking balls may have been deflated in their playoff game at New England: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer...ink-footballs-were-under-inflated-vs-patriots …

Part of the investigation that still needs further vetting is how the 11 footballs became under-inflated. The game balls provided to each team for preparation were required to be inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson two hours and 15 minutes before kickoff before they were returned to each team. No alteration of footballs is allowed once they are approved, under league rules and regulations.

http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/i...-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game


Tom Brady Admitted In 2011 He Likes Deflated Footballs

...I love that, because I like the deflated ball.

 

[Sigma]

Jerry Rice ‏@JerryRice
​

​

http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/i...-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game


Tom Brady Admitted In 2011 He Likes Deflated Footballs

let's suppose you like deflated balls (footballs)

what if you carefully choose between your pool of balls those that for one reason or another deflate when left alone.

you choose those that deflate X air in Y time, inflate it to the regular level and give them to the refs to measure. the balls check out ok and then they will lose air as the game goes on.

this way No alteration of footballs happens, and you get the deflated balls you really like.

I can see BB counting this as a loophole in the rules and using it.

If this is actually true, and there are no rules against this, I think rules should be changed, but BB would be fine.

Unless there is a rule against this, or they actually altered the balls after the refs checked them.

 

[revan]

Don't really care what the Pats did, I just loved watching the beat down they gave to the Dolts. Boy were the Dolts fans on Facebook aggressive on the NFL page. One comment from me and I had 20 replies from them telling me they own us especially in Indy. I had to take it since our boys haven't really done anything against them so it felt good seeing the massacre of boy wonder Luck and now their fan base feels cheated hahaha I love it.

 

[thunderkyss]

Don't really care what the Pats did, I just loved watching the beat down they gave to the Dolts.

True... true.

 

[kingtexan]

Looking back at the league cheating or at least pushing the limits to get an advantage has always been part of it. Too much money at stake and the talent levels are a lot closer now so you have to do something to get the edge. That being said I am not a fan of the Patriots or Beliprick.

But, scoreboard is scoreboard.

 

[gwallaia]

Seems I read somewhere, if found guilty, the Patriots could lose draft picks.

 

[Marcus]

Part of the investigation that needs further vetting is how the 11 footballs were deflated.

I suppose it's 'possible' for someone on the sidelines to reach into the bag of footballs and deflate a bunch of them.

But to do it out of the view of any video camera is stretching it. The longer they go without producing some video evidence of it ......

 

[IDEXAN]

If the league really wants to punish the Pats, why don't thy take away some first round picks ? Right, that's not gonna happen.

 

[Pollardized]

Don't really care what the Pats did, I just loved watching the beat down they gave to the Dolts. Boy were the Dolts fans on Facebook aggressive on the NFL page. One comment from me and I had 20 replies from them telling me they own us especially in Indy. I had to take it since our boys haven't really done anything against them so it felt good seeing the massacre of boy wonder Luck and now their fan base feels cheated hahaha I love it.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

 

[Blake]

Interesting stat.

New England is #31 in offensive fumbles with 13.

Indy/Washington are tied for #1 with 31 offensive fumbles.

 

[Blake]

The Pats have been accused and confirmed of cheating.

Correction.

The Pats have been accused and confirmed of cheating multiple times.

 

[Playoffs]

Seems I read somewhere, if found guilty, the Patriots could lose draft picks.

Yes...

If proven that the Patriots underinflated balls, the team faces fines of at least $25,000 and potentially the loss of draft picks.

What's interesting to me is Tom Brady's initial reaction when first questioned about the Patriot's balls being under-inflated... That's a fake, nervous laugh if I've ever heard one.

Note ALL 12 Patriots balls were under the PSI limit... and ALL Colts balls were within the limits... but 11 of the 12 Patriots balls were over 2 lbs. under. -- Gerry Austin, retired NFL referee.

Austin also confirmed that referees always check PSI before games, so someone had to let air out of the balls after that check.

(We might want a more specific title to this discussion, like "Deflate-gate" or "under-inflated team balls" or the like...?)

 

[Troy Chapman]

Interesting thought going around on Twitter. Former QB's saying that the equipment guys could adjust the game balls to the QB's liking without head coaches knowledge.

 

[Sigma]

Austin also confirmed that referees always check PSI before games, so someone had to let air out of the balls after that check.

So they ruled out the possibility of leaky balls?

 

[Playoffs]

Interesting thought going around on Twitter. Former QB's saying that the equipment guys could adjust the game balls to the QB's liking without head coaches knowledge.

Sounds like one of the many minimizing, excuse-making tweets sourced from Pats writers and/or fans. Like Belichick isn't in charge. And Brady didn't know. Yeah, got it.

 

[Blake]

Interesting thought going around on Twitter. Former QB's saying that the equipment guys could adjust the game balls to the QB's liking without head coaches knowledge.

Bounty gate set the precedence that ignorance is not an excuse.

 

[Troy Chapman]

Bounty gate set the precedence that ignorance is not an excuse.

Sorry I wasn't portraying it as an excuse. Just a common practice for the game balls to be setup to the QB's liking.

 

[TexansLucky13]

Properly inflated footballs would not have changed what Blount did to the Colts...

 

[ChampionTexan]

Properly inflated footballs would not have changed what Blount did to the Colts...

I don't think there's a person in the world that would argue that, but not needing to cheat doesn't make it not cheating.

 

[infantrycak]

So they ruled out the possibility of leaky balls?

You're not finding 12 balls that leak like that. They play games all the time and end up at the end of the game with 0-2 balls from both teams at the end of the day under at all. All the sudden 12 leaky balls. Uh-uh.

Interesting thought going around on Twitter. Former QB's saying that the equipment guys could adjust the game balls to the QB's liking without head coaches knowledge.

The team is responsible for the equipment guys. That should only make a difference in whether Belichick gets a personal fine on top of any team fine.

 

[The1ApplePie]

A huge part of football is cheating, or at least getting as close as possible. It is as much a part of the game as X's and O's.

Don't know if I would put deflating footballs on the same scale as stomping on Aaron Rodger's leg or trying to kill Brett Favre, but it is not surprising.

 

[infantrycak]

A huge part of football is cheating, or at least getting as close as possible. It is as much a part of the game as X's and O's.

Don't know if I would put deflating footballs on the same scale as stomping on Aaron Rodger's leg or trying to kill Brett Favre, but it is not surprising.

Doesn't fly. There's no grey area here. This isn't hand fighting between a DB and WR with an incidental discretionary boundary to push. This is premeditated unambiguous violation of the rules by someone.