leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
So, who are these very good older players you speak of? Most times when an older player gets cut, he's probably done.
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Pat Kirwan article
- Thread starter leebigeztx
- Start date
So, who are these very good older players you speak of? Most times when an older player gets cut, he's probably done.
Stupid Texans front office. We should fire them all and hire Kirwin since he knows more about our salary cap they they do!Why isn't this guy working contracts for some NFL team?
Understand that Kirwan made a bit of a boo-boo. He states the Texans have $4.77M of cap space as of Feb 29, then goes on to show how the Texans can create the cap space to sign Mario, Foster, Myers & draft picks by restructuring just 4 contracts to free up $12.16M for a total of $16.93M
For now, just remember that. We sign Mario, Foster, Myers, & our draft picks for $16.93M
So what's really the issue? That we won't be able to sign anyone else?
What if we could?
If we could find a way to free up some extra money to sign all the other players you want, would it really matter how much money we give Mario?
Think about it. We get everything you want, plus Mario.... would that make you happy?
I thought he was pretty dominate in this years Miami & Pittsburg game. But that's just me. Surely your idea & my ideas won't jive, but it is what it is.
I can't wait to see Mario playing with Barwin, Smith, & Watt playing like they did in the last 4 games of the season (including play-offs). I haven't verified it, but I thought we were getting more turnovers (just like we were getting more sacks) when Mario was in the game. That is until the end of the season, when every body else's performance started to match the level Mario was playing at since week 1.
Again, that's just me.
Again, with the depth & getting other players... now I asked you earlier in this post, if you'd be happy if we were able to get all the other players you wanted.... keep in mind, the league only allows us to have 53 players.
So who do you want? How much is it going to cost to get them?
Go back to the article, remember that said $4.77M under the cap as of Feb 29. That means Mario's contract & the other 11 FA's are still counted, however we signed Mario, Myers, Foster, & our draft picks with the space we created restructuring 4 player's contracts. Andre Johnson, Jonathan Joseph, Owen Daniels, & Antonio Smith.
It also said Mario counted as $18M towards our cap.... as of Feb 29.
So go get whoever you want. If $18M isn't enough, cut Jacoby... if you're going to bring in a "real" proven #2 WR, cut Walters. That's an additional $7M..... that's $25M
Not enough? Restructure Demeco's contract, restructure Schaub's, you can free up another $12M for a total of $37M
We could have Mario, Foster, Myers, & our draft picks signed, & still have $37M to go after any FA you want.
Still not enough? Cut Rackers, cut Jason Allen, cut Derrick Ward..... how much money do you need to supply depth & a few quality pieces to this team?
This is simple math. Take the team we ended last season with, the one without Mario that was able to make the playoffs with a top two defense and a backup QB, add a couple of key free agents to strengthen a weak area like we did last year with the money you want to spend on Mario.
In other words subtract Mario add (examples) Marques Colston, WR and Jeremy Zuttah, G/C.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
We were on our 3rd string Quarterback, yet continued to win without Mario. Still, you want to gut the team that was playing important games to pay a guy that hasn't produced 10 sacks since 2008... Why? I'm not sure. I guess it's because the same people who claimed guys like Roy Williams (both of them), Chad Johnson, Randy Moss, Albert Haynesworth, Chris Johnson, and Asomugha were difference-makers worth spending elite money on.
He had a very good game vs. Pittsurgh. I agree. Miami? no. Barwin's sack was in a one on one matchup versus Jake Long. How did Mario acquire his sack? I'm not too excited about spending nearly $100 million on a guy that has had 2 or 3 great games since October of 2009. Sorry.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol...so your plan is to cut a guy whom you & dale call "injury prone" to add another injury prone player in Marques Colston?
What's more is that you have this same line of thinking with regards to resigning Brisiel.......another guy who's missed 20+ games in 3 different seasons for us.
Meanwhile you've got dale spewing his usual garbage as if its a certainty that the FA's are gonna wanna come here or if we'll even be able to afford them.....or even if they'll have any more of an impact that the guys we have here now. Lets look at the FA WR class.
Dwayne Bowe Chiefs 5 - Franchise tag
Plaxico Burress Jets 10 - already expressed interest in Philly, likely doesn't want to come here, old
Marques Colston Saints 6 - injury prone
Early Doucet Cardinals 4 - not much better if any better than what we have or could get in the draft.
Harry Douglas Falcons 3 - viable option
Pierre Garcon Colts 4 - injury prone...inconsistent hands
Ted Ginn Jr. 49ers 5 - LOL
Vincent Jackson Chargers 7 - injury prone, wants too much, SD isn't letting him go
Stevie Johnson Bills 4 - will likely cost too much; likely franchise tag; knucklehead.
Brandon Lloyd Rams 9 - viable option but if the texans thought highly of him he'd be here already for a 7th round pick.
Mario Manningham Giants 4 - viable option although i think he'll want too much.
Robert Meachem Saints 5 - not much if any better than Kevin Walter & JJ.
Laurent Robinson Cowboys 5 - likely not letting him go; only guy other than Austin Romo had repoire with.
Jerome Simpson Bengals 4 - inconsistent, knucklehead & not much better than what we've got.
Mike Wallace* Steelers 3 - steelers making room for him as we speak by cutting fan favorite Ward.
Reggie Wayne Colts 11 - would never come play for the texans imo.
Wes Welker Patriots 8 - franchise tag
Roy Williams Bears 8 - Lol.
so out of this huge market of vet wrs there are only really 2 viable guys...& we don't even know how much kubes likes these guys nor do we know how much they'll command.
Why we're still discussing whether or not to get a NT is irrelevant. I don't think we lose or gain much with or without a cody. Wade likes Mitchell, that's good enough for me.
You guys don't know what you want & you're assuming alot based on 1 successful season. Reed & Barwin are likely to see teams play them differently next year..our comp in division & out of division will be getting better next year too. I don't think either of these guys is good enough to overcome what will be coming their way next year...& for that reason and a few others i think the FO needs to seriously entertain bringing Mario back.
GP
Go Texans!
I see the validity of both sides of this argument.
On one hand, you can save money and use it to re-sign everyone and/or go after FA players to try and upgrade other positions like we did on CB and S last off-season.
On the other hand, you can retain Mario and re-sign everyone and/or cut some of the guys instead of re-signing them.
The key element, IMO, is this: How effective will Mario be from this day going forward? Some say you can structure the deal to peter out in about 3 years and be done with him if he sucks rocks around year 2 or 3 or whatever. OK. But will it have been worth it to do this instead of using his money to go after others in FA? I don't know.
I do not envy the Texans FO right now. Success breeds bigger challenges, such as this one. Everyone wants to get paid. This is why Super Bowl teams lose a lot of guys after they win the big game...everybody wants to get paid like a rock star. And we haven't even won the big game yet. Le sigh....
I guess we'll have to see what the outcome is, what the Texans decide to do huh?
On one hand, you can save money and use it to re-sign everyone and/or go after FA players to try and upgrade other positions like we did on CB and S last off-season.
On the other hand, you can retain Mario and re-sign everyone and/or cut some of the guys instead of re-signing them.
The key element, IMO, is this: How effective will Mario be from this day going forward? Some say you can structure the deal to peter out in about 3 years and be done with him if he sucks rocks around year 2 or 3 or whatever. OK. But will it have been worth it to do this instead of using his money to go after others in FA? I don't know.
I do not envy the Texans FO right now. Success breeds bigger challenges, such as this one. Everyone wants to get paid. This is why Super Bowl teams lose a lot of guys after they win the big game...everybody wants to get paid like a rock star. And we haven't even won the big game yet. Le sigh....
I guess we'll have to see what the outcome is, what the Texans decide to do huh?
stingray
Hall of Fame
Were you the guy talking about his wedding coming up?
So?? Our "best" NT, likely isn't as good as somebody we can get in the draft. We've seen the best that Cody can do, and he's nowhere near top-tier talent in the league at his position. Jacoby has been given his shot, I have ZERO issue with cutting him and attempting to resign him for less. If somebody else wants to pay that kinda $$ for him, that's fine. I understand you don't want to overpay for Mario, that's fine & I agree, but lets not make Cody/Jacoby out to be players they're not.
That's only true if you're planning on hiring a FA receiver, otherwise, rookie pool is a different beast altogether.
You're both missing the point.
We don't have to cut anyone off the team. By restructuring Jjo, Antonio, OD, & Andre, we can free up the money to sign our big three (Myers, Foster, & Mario) plus our draft picks.
Then with the money you free up by dropping Mario's 2011 salary, that frees up $18M. You want Colston, you want Zuttah, what's stopping you? Sign them both for part of that $18M, you'll still have some left in reserve, unless you're saying those two guys are going to cost us more than Mario, Foster, Myers, & our draft picks.
& if you still need more money, restructure Matt Schaub & Demeco Ryans.
We've still got 53 men on this roster doing it this way, plus the two guys Mussop mentioned.
You've got to cut someone, just to get to 53.
Are you saying you want to cut Mario just for a roster spot? That's stupid.
No GP, this thinking is false. That's all I'm arguing.
I don't care if you want Mario here or not.... just be honest about it (not you in particular).
Kirwan's article shows you how we can sign our big three plus or draft picks by restructuring contracts. You don't lose anyone. Everyone that was on "this great" team last year is on it next year, just by restructuring contracts.
Then you've got the $18M you freed up by signing Mario to a long term deal.
That's 53 players, plus your draft picks & 18M to chase whoever you want.
So if you're going to sign more players to the roster, you're going to have to cut someone, whether now or before the end of TC.
Some guys (who I think we can afford to lose) are going to create more cap space..... Jacoby, Walter, Ward, Leinart.......
Then you've still got two big contracts that you can restructure, Schaub & Demeco.
Money is not an issue. Money is not the issue. They just don't want Mario here.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I equate this to somebody being married to a really hot wife. Everybody else sees her around with her husband and thinks about how lucky he is, but he sees her in the morning, and when she's not looking the best and is intimately aware of her shortcomings and thinks she's not worth it.
"How we replace Cody and Jones" Because there's two pieces of the puzzle we'd all rather have than Mario Williams yes. And Connor Barwin is certainly going to take a great deal for the Texans because. . .
Literally the only player I'm worried about not being able to re-sign because Mario is taking a large chunk of the cap (Which if the contract guy/GM isn't an idiot, he wouldn't sign Mario to a deal like that anyway) is Duane Brown.
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amazing80
Hall of Fame
I don't think this guy is stupid enough to write an article and forget to subtract the current salaries coming off the books....pretty sure the 4 plus million is what we have NOW with those contracts off the book
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Pretty sure you are wrong on that one.
Yeah I'm pretty sure he's wrong too. We have 17 FAs, and only 12 roster spots (because 5 were IR replacements). If $4 million is with 17 FAs off the books then we only have $300k per player to spend (4m/12) which is LESS than the rookie minimum. League minimum on avg is around $600k. If you are right then we will have to cut more than just Mario (since according to you he and 16 other salaries put us at only $4 million under and we still have 12 roster spots to fill).
Free Agency does not start until March 13th, which is the 1st day of the new league year. Therefore the salaries from last year cannot be off the books because the 2011 season has not ended yet.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Well maybe we're all freaking about money for no reason.....screw it, sign every one on our team and then go after V Jackson or P Garcon......DO IT
GP
Go Texans!
Well, Mario is not transgressing against "them" that you speak of. He didn't take anything from the them. He didn't pee in their cereal this morning. I don't think we need to say the them have it out for Mario as some sort of personal vendetta the them have against Mario. I don't like how message boards tend to get that way--The "them" vs. the "they." Just my two cents on it.
The them, IMO, just happen to think that Mario is not worth the money. It's a touchy subject, as evidenced by the lengths of talks that have centered upon Mario on these boards for years. The success of the Texans defense in 2011, with the emergence of two rookies (Reed & Watt) has further complicated or exacerbated the "discussion." The water is muddied like never before.
I don't think there is a faulty logic here, on either side. The Texans can do a myriad of things if they want. That's what matters, IMO. The them you speak of does not matter. The they don't matter, either. I do not matter. You do not matter. In all honestly, there are multiple scenarios that can shake down. The possibilities are exhausting.
Some of "them" don't see the necessity of Mario. Some think it's a luxury and not a need. I can see why. Some think you do what you can and you try like hell to make him a part of this defense for years to come. I can see why, as well. I do like the philosophy mussop posited that "Just because it can be done does not mean you do it." That's a good ethical stance to take in life, let alone in the world of sports entertainment such as an NFL team managing its resources.
But we could all be surprised at how things shake down. Agents are a piece of this ingredients list that are vital. They can guide their players to do things that screw other things up. Never underestimate the possibility that things could get weird and alter plans on all fronts. We just won't know until it all unfolds before us. This much we can all agree upon.
GP
Go Texans!
I can't foresee a world where at least 2 or 3 teams WON'T throw stupid crazy cash at Mario and make it hard on him to choose to stay in Houston for less.
And I can't foresee a world where no team attempts to sign Foster to an offer sheet and thinks they can steal away a great RB for a first rounder and a lot of cap space they have this year.
Both of those, IMO, are very real possibilities. At that point, then umm...yeah, Texans better have some stuff figured out and ready to make their choice.
Just like they had to exit the Aso sweepstakes last year, and go grab a CB and a S instead...they might (key word is "might") have to make a choice here.
What team would NOT try to upset our apple cart? We wanted this level of fame and notoriety, we are getting it! Teams have painted bulls eyes on our chests. One is labeled Mario and the other is Foster.
The stakes are high. I feel confident that McNair is not a noob owner now. I feel certain that he and Rick got this. I really do.
EDIT: I also happen to think that it's possible that agents for both Mario AND Foster are not signing and maybe not even entertaining Texans offers yet...they're going to sit and wait and see what another team serves up on March 13. That franchise tag might get slapped on Foster March 12, folks. Then the Texans can have all of 2012 to work the long-term deal. Bet you donuts to dollars that Foster's agent is having him hold off on any Texans offer until offer sheets come in for their consideration! You have to have something to leverage against the Texans, but the Texans can tag slap Foster and avoid that mess. Yeah, I bet Foster gets tagged. I said it on March 2 at 1:07 p.m.
And I can't foresee a world where no team attempts to sign Foster to an offer sheet and thinks they can steal away a great RB for a first rounder and a lot of cap space they have this year.
Both of those, IMO, are very real possibilities. At that point, then umm...yeah, Texans better have some stuff figured out and ready to make their choice.
Just like they had to exit the Aso sweepstakes last year, and go grab a CB and a S instead...they might (key word is "might") have to make a choice here.
What team would NOT try to upset our apple cart? We wanted this level of fame and notoriety, we are getting it! Teams have painted bulls eyes on our chests. One is labeled Mario and the other is Foster.
The stakes are high. I feel confident that McNair is not a noob owner now. I feel certain that he and Rick got this. I really do.
EDIT: I also happen to think that it's possible that agents for both Mario AND Foster are not signing and maybe not even entertaining Texans offers yet...they're going to sit and wait and see what another team serves up on March 13. That franchise tag might get slapped on Foster March 12, folks. Then the Texans can have all of 2012 to work the long-term deal. Bet you donuts to dollars that Foster's agent is having him hold off on any Texans offer until offer sheets come in for their consideration! You have to have something to leverage against the Texans, but the Texans can tag slap Foster and avoid that mess. Yeah, I bet Foster gets tagged. I said it on March 2 at 1:07 p.m.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
I really doubt we let AF go. Sure we can tender him, but if we honestly feel like he will get away, franchising him is still an option. This weekend will be HUGE for this team. We better sign one of the 3 or come Monday we will be in a TERRIBLE spot.
Id list them in this order of IMPORTANCE
Foster
Myers
Mario
Lets see everyone else's priorities.....
Id list them in this order of IMPORTANCE
Foster
Myers
Mario
Lets see everyone else's priorities.....
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
seriously doubt foster goes anywhere...in fact, im not worried about him leaving this year at all. Mario on the other hand....if someone offers him stupid money to leave & he takes it..fine. What i dont ant to happen is he bolts outta here & there is no report of any offer made to him...basically it would be the texans saying bye bye to him; i think he's worth trying to pursue to a point..10 - 12 mil is my point.
If they are going to franchise Foster the deadline is actually March 5th (Monday) not March 13th. So we better tag him quick if we had plans on it. Mario made a little over $18 million last year. We could use about $7.7 million of it for Foster's tag number, then try to use the rest (about $11 million) to offer to Mario. The other guys can be sign by restructuring a few contracts because they will be much cheaper than these 2.
I used to think it was Mario, Myers, Foster, being that Foster is a restricted FA. My thinking is we have to sign the unrestricted guys before FA. Once they get to open waters, the money get's stupid & I personally wouldn't want to get into that bidding war..... not even for our own FAs.
Now, same thing applies to Foster. If he gets to test the waters, we'll have to match some ridiculous number or let him go.
Monday is the deadline to put the tag on. So Foster is my first priority. If we don't have a deal in place, I'm franchising him to keep him from talking to other teams. Then I'll try to get him signed before OTAs.
Then Mario. I want to make him a good faith offer before March 13. If he doesn't take it, I'm fine with that, but I'll go onto plan B that doesn't include Mario Williams. I'm not getting into a bidding war with deep-pocketed, desperate teams.
Then Myers. Yes, he's the center-piece of the OL. I do not want to lose him. But, how bad can the market drive up his price? I'll make him an offer as well, before March 13. If he takes it great, if he doesn't, I plan on going on without him, but I'll let him know my deal still stands if he chooses to come back.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Look. I would love to see Jacoby get cut. However, I want him cut because the Texans have upgraded the WR position, not further downgraded it in order to fit Mario's monster contract into the cap.
I don't want the starting NT for a great defense to be cut in his prime because he's making $2.5 million. Sorry but that is crazy! Not only does it not make sense from a football standpoint, but those are the kinds of moves that can divide a locker room. How do you think those players that were part of the 2011 defense going to feel when they are all asked to take cuts in pay so Mario can be given a contract near $100 million? I don't think it is a poplular move. Think about the precedent that sets moving forward as an organization.
I think they'll think it sucks. But....that's part of life in the NFL. If players spent all their time thinking about what everyone else was making, they'd have stopped playing together long ago. The players KNOW that Mario is "the stud". That said, you tread very carefully when asking folks like AJ/Schaub to restructure.
As for Cody, we'll agree to disagree...in my view he's not some sort of lynchpin, he's a worker bee.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=stl
Also,I hear people talking about meyers, another player they can't franchise. A problem is the last contract signed, brown, got 5yr 35m with 20m guarantee and 24m in the 1st 2 yrs. Are the texans ready to do a deal like that for meyers?
Also,I hear people talking about meyers, another player they can't franchise. A problem is the last contract signed, brown, got 5yr 35m with 20m guarantee and 24m in the 1st 2 yrs. Are the texans ready to do a deal like that for meyers?
noxiousdog
Rookie
I can't imagine a center getting a contract that big.
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk
stingray
Hall of Fame
Ohh, Ok. I have heard you also. He also talked to jermaine for a bit about signing Mario and Arian.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Ahh, yes. I've heard you call the show for years. You are a knowledge football fan but a mild Texan fan. This explains a lot of our differences. You haven't been emotionally invested in this franchise the way some of us have been... which is fine. But, it does explain some of the differences in perspectives.
Also, Kirwan has never had much of a handle on the Texans. Because he has no inside contacts within the organization, he has few insights on it, IMO. I remember that late in 2009 he argued rather strongly that the Cincinnati Bengals were a much more talented team than the Texans and had a brighter future. That was silliness and is indicative of his lack of knowledge concerning the Texans.
GP
Go Texans!
Dude. Seriously?
(sigh)
Put the Super Fan Koolaid down for a second. I can't believe you'd say that, in that way, on here. And then to go on about Kirwan not being knowledgeable?
I don't know what else to say.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
No insult intended. I've heard him on that show for years. I'm not claiming to be a super fan. He was simply not particularly focused on the Texans for years. He has acknowledged as much before on the show... often calling to talk about teams like San Diego. I was just commenting on the different perspectives we have contributing to how we see things differently.
Also, I'm not saying Kirwan isn't knowledgeable. I'm saying he's not in touch with the Texans because of a lack of connections to them. This is something pretty widespread in the media. The Texans get less coverage, not only because they have stunk for so long, but also because the organization has a small inner circle.
If the previous post sounded like an insult toward Leebigeztx then I simply worded it poorly.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
So dale, I don't know the texans because I can spek about every team in the league? My sig says it all because that's me. I record the texans every week and I also record and watch a lot of teams. Just because I talk or give my review of a team not named the texans has 0 to do with our disagreements. I'm objective and u think mario is average. I. Think mario is an elite player playing an elite position. You think he's easily replaceable. Because of the way the defense played without him. That's our disagreement. If he leaves because he just wants to leave, so be it. I think the texans will offer him a very attractive deal.
You won't like it and neither will some of the others that follow the way you think. Mario, despite his injuries, most of which he played through, is an elite talent and player. Look around the league and attempt to find a guy who can rush and play the run. Look at the defenses he's played wth when the next leding pass rusher had 2 sack and a secondary leaving windows wide open like its summertime. All those game changers and elite guys u mention always had others. One yr with wade in dallas, they led the league in sacks. In that season,ellis had 10, james had 8,and ratliff had 8 to help ware. Mario has never had a guy with more than 5. Freeney has always had mathis.when allen was in kc, hali was getting 8 sacks. Allen goes to minny, williams wall pushing the pocket in the qbs face. Merriman? In sd, casillas on the dl had 8 sacks along with sean phillips. I could continue, but just like in the other thread, ur mind is made up. So, I guess we will see soon enough.
You won't like it and neither will some of the others that follow the way you think. Mario, despite his injuries, most of which he played through, is an elite talent and player. Look around the league and attempt to find a guy who can rush and play the run. Look at the defenses he's played wth when the next leding pass rusher had 2 sack and a secondary leaving windows wide open like its summertime. All those game changers and elite guys u mention always had others. One yr with wade in dallas, they led the league in sacks. In that season,ellis had 10, james had 8,and ratliff had 8 to help ware. Mario has never had a guy with more than 5. Freeney has always had mathis.when allen was in kc, hali was getting 8 sacks. Allen goes to minny, williams wall pushing the pocket in the qbs face. Merriman? In sd, casillas on the dl had 8 sacks along with sean phillips. I could continue, but just like in the other thread, ur mind is made up. So, I guess we will see soon enough.
GP
Go Texans!
He's a mild Texans fan because he also chooses to educate himself about other teams, to call into a show and speak about more than just the Texans?
What national sports analyst IS a guy who knows the Texans inside and out, and can focus solely on the Texans? They have 31 other teams to look at and discuss on their shows. That's why ESPN developed the blog system where a guy like Kuharsky covers the AFC South.
You're trying to discredit a fellow fan and a pretty solid national analyst. I would re-think that strategy, if I were you.
Look at his avatar. It's all AFC South teams with Homer being the Texans fan. Translation. Lee is a Texans homer. Doh!
What national sports analyst IS a guy who knows the Texans inside and out, and can focus solely on the Texans? They have 31 other teams to look at and discuss on their shows. That's why ESPN developed the blog system where a guy like Kuharsky covers the AFC South.
You're trying to discredit a fellow fan and a pretty solid national analyst. I would re-think that strategy, if I were you.
Look at his avatar. It's all AFC South teams with Homer being the Texans fan. Translation. Lee is a Texans homer. Doh!
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
All these numbers are just killing my brain. Have no concept of it. These damn CBAs for sports are so convoluted. Not surprising.
Wake me up when we've got it figured out, lol.
Wake me up when we've got it figured out, lol.
The thing that gets me, is that if sports players can get this kind of profit sharing from the owners, imagine what we could have accomplished if the our Unions weren't so small minded & corrupt.
I hear ya. There was a time when there were guys on the internet that had the salary caps pretty well figured out. Those guys seem to have given up due to the lack of information released by teams/agents. No one but the contract guys in the NFL really know what is going on. Doesn't stop the media or some fans from proclaiming that they do.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You used to be able to go the the NFLPA website and get official contract information. They removed that option or hid it from public view a couple years ago.
Wonder why they thought that was a positive thing to do..?
No I never said Mario is injury prone. I said its stupid to spend that big of a chunk of cap space on one player. Maybe you should quite getting your little feelings hurt every time someone mentions that resigning Mario might not be the best move for us. Colston was just an example hence the word "example" in front of his name.
Other important players that currently play big roles in our success have been injured (Ryans, Breisal) and there isn't a whole lot of quality backups behind them should they go down again. This is exactly why IMO we should use that money to strengthen our depth.
I can't control what Dale says but I happen to agree with him on this one. Why wouldn't a vet FA want ot come here. There is lots to like about this franchise right now. If we could afford this monstrous contract you think Mario deserves then why couldn't we afford some quality depth through FA? Seems like simple math to me.
I wasn't in that discussion but, If we cut Cody and Mitchell goes down, who takes his place? Who do we even put in the rotation or do you suggest Mitchell doesn't ever need to come off the field? On top of that you (nor I) have any idea how important to the locker room Cody is. Stats aren't the only thing that determines a players value to a team.
You are assuming a lot. They played well all season and actually picked it up a notch in the playoffs. You don't think that was tough competition? You don't think those teams made adjustments for them?
I want Mario back! I just want him back at a price that doesn't lock us up against the cap where we can't keep improving our depth. I don't think he is a game changer that deserves one of the biggest contracts in league history.
If this is true then fine. I just find it hard to believe we can do all that and still be in good enough shape next year to resign all our big FA's.
I'm wrong. Not even the capologists know what the cap is, because the NFL and the NFLPA are still determining what the cap number will be.
Yet there are a ton of experts (both paid and amateur) who claim to know where teams' salary caps lie. Horsehockey!
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
As far as the last part, we're already up against the cap & we haven't signed anyone yet; all in all though both of us are on the same page here. I don't think anyone of us is advocating giving mario the world...but there needs to be an attempt made to keep him here......with a contract that's reasonable for both parties.
GP
Go Texans!
This is why I don't "get" the whole drama from some people about how we can or cannot afford to sign one, or two, or all or whatever of our guys. It's been funny to watch everyone throw out these numbers. Nobody is the same, and if they are they're copying someone else's printed estimate from some other site.
I said, last week, that all of this--from all sides--is just conjecture and speculation about what we can or cannot afford to do. The underlying principle should be that no matter what we can or cannot do...we NEED to be smart with the dough and think about this year and the next.
Mussop, and I'll say it again, has a smart idea when he says "Just because we CAN afford to re-sign someone doesn't mean that we SHOULD." Now, as to which guys the Texans decide are essential and which are not? I think that's going to shake itself out according to how the agents of all those players decide to negotiate with the Texans. That's when guys you thought were "sure things" might be headed to the exit, and that's going to determine how the dominos fall for the remainder of players in the pool.
I think that's about as simplistic as it can get.
Tell me if I'm wrong?
Basically the Texans can let MW walk and reup all of the 2012 and 2013 potential FA's. As well as maybe signing 1 of the following FA's WR/NT/CB/OLB? As well as being a player when the cap goes up before the 2013 season.
Sign me up for this.
MW is a great player, but I'm keeping this team together and hopefully adding more pieces in the draft. I wonder how much of the MW love is because he was the 1st pick the Texans got right? (VY, Bush)
You do know MW wasn't the best DL in that draft. That distinction belongs to Ngata.
Basically the Texans can let MW walk and reup all of the 2012 and 2013 potential FA's. As well as maybe signing 1 of the following FA's WR/NT/CB/OLB? As well as being a player when the cap goes up before the 2013 season.
Sign me up for this.
MW is a great player, but I'm keeping this team together and hopefully adding more pieces in the draft. I wonder how much of the MW love is because he was the 1st pick the Texans got right? (VY, Bush)
You do know MW wasn't the best DL in that draft. That distinction belongs to Ngata.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I apologize for the way my earlier post was worded. It was not my intent to label you, though I clearly did. (Thank you, GP, for pointing that out to me)
You are correct that we are not going to agree. I don't care about sack totals from individuals. Whether Mario would end up with 8 sacks or 20 is insignificant to me. I'm only concerned about the end product of the defense. The one thing I learned last year is that the defense can be great without Mario. While it is very likely that it would be great with him as well, it has never happened for any length of time in six seasons. Does that mean he's not an excellent player? no. Does that mean it seems imprudent for the Texans to pay him a significant chunk of their cap? I think so.
As an aside to the central issue, I happen to believe Mario's motor is inconsistent. I don't think that is true of the other talent on defense. As a fan, I don't like it. Also, I think the disparity in his hustle and that of others could lead to some problems on the team. I know I'm in the minority with this opinion. I have supplied evidence to support it. Many disagree. That's fine.
Understand, though, I was thrilled with the Mario draft pick. I have been a fan throughout his career until I began noticing this trend midway through the 2009 season. Watching him next to Antonio Smith the past couple years is what first caught my eye... and then next to Cushing and J.J. Watt. I don't see the passion and violence in his effort that I see with the others. What I've noticed turned out to be legitimate as Mario was playing injured during the 2009 and 2010 seasons.
Entering the 2011 season healthy, I hoped to see better energy. When reviewing his play this season, I thought he still took too many players off and/or didn't play through the whistle. Maybe I'm hyper-sensitive to it because of that abortion of a season he had in 2010 due to his attempt to play through the sports hernia. But, that is the conclusion I have made.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Dale, I'm good bro, I'm hard to label or offend. I just remember 2009 all too well. I remember the way the team played after the poor start to finish strong defensively the year prior. I remember the team finsihing 13th and being one of the tops in forcing 3 and outs. The next yr, frank bush in hand,and they let dunta go and cut reeves. People on this board talked about how everything would be fine because we had this new rookie and a 2nd yr guy in quinn back there to take over. I remember telling people you have to replace talent with talent. Look what happened. The texans had one of the worse defenses possible and bush got fired. Ryans goes down,cushing didn't play well and it was a disaster.
Fast forward to now and there is a lot of conjecture the same way. Mario is a much better player and people think reed and barwin can replace mario. I like barwin a lot more than reed. Reed is a effort guy who will get sacks either on blown assignments or on qb holding the ball too long. Thing is, 1 injury to either barwin,reed,watts,or smith and the wheels will come off of this defense. The chargers had great defenses at times when merriman was out, but once he never regained his form and left,their defense has never been the same. If they lose mario, their 1st rd pick will be a rush end/olb, book it. I don't have a problem with that if that's what happen. If the resign mario, their 1st pick might be a wr or 5 tech, don't have a problem with that either. Its quiet and that's a good thing. Their working on it and that's good. I know we will know before free agency.
Fast forward to now and there is a lot of conjecture the same way. Mario is a much better player and people think reed and barwin can replace mario. I like barwin a lot more than reed. Reed is a effort guy who will get sacks either on blown assignments or on qb holding the ball too long. Thing is, 1 injury to either barwin,reed,watts,or smith and the wheels will come off of this defense. The chargers had great defenses at times when merriman was out, but once he never regained his form and left,their defense has never been the same. If they lose mario, their 1st rd pick will be a rush end/olb, book it. I don't have a problem with that if that's what happen. If the resign mario, their 1st pick might be a wr or 5 tech, don't have a problem with that either. Its quiet and that's a good thing. Their working on it and that's good. I know we will know before free agency.
GP
Go Texans!
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I agree with your assessment of Reed, though I do have hope that he will continue to develop. I'm not excited about Reed's ability to replace Mario. Perhaps I've not been clear about that. I do think that Reed and Barwin's ability to drop into coverage (increasing disguise of the defense) does help to overcome the loss of a player like Mario. I simply don't trust Mario to stay on the field and stay motivated on the field. While that is clearly a knock on Mario, I would be extending this argument to all but a dozen players in the league. I simply do not believe in paying one player (other than a QB) the kind of money Mario is going to command. I've been very bullish on Rick Smith also and trust him to continue to add talent to the team.